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Von Carstiens seem capable of being subtle and appearing human and not insane when they want to be, right?
They are capable, but as a bloodline, they have the general desire to rule openly as a nation-state of sorts, which makes it hard in the long run to do so.

Speaking of subtle vampires, we really oughta get a Lahmian skull at some point to round out Mathilde's collection.
 
Hey, speaking as someone who just caught up to thread in the last few chapters I just remembered I had a few things that confused me while reading. I'm hoping someone can help me out?
1. Did we ever find out what the deal was with that dead Patriarch at the beginning of the story?

2. I think I missed something in the Panoramia socials? It seemed like one moment we were lecturing her about being reckless with her magic while she quivered in her boots and the next moment Mathilde was grumpy that Pan didn't buy into her mystique? When did that happen?

3. Why did we decide to use our boons on the library and branch college in the first place? I mean I think they're cool and all but it seems way out of left field?

4. I remember we used to have student loans or something, right? Does every College wizard take student loans? Because that seems extremely fucked up for something you literally have to do. Just like real life heeyooo
 
1. Did we ever find out what the deal was with that dead Patriarch at the beginning of the story?
Boney is keeping the circumstances surrounding Hexensohn's death a secret in case future endeavors (likely College politics related) result in us running into Amethyst secrets. However, we do know that the reason they showed up at the Drakenhof campaign was because we crit failed our request for reinforcements and the people that came did not buy into the Van Hal family redemption story (despite it being true).
 
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3. Why did we decide to use our boons on the library and branch college in the first place? I mean I think they're cool and all but it seems way out of left field?
It didn't really get much in-story focus, but those were the products of basically years of thread discussions.

The Library especially, who's genesis can be seen that time Mathilde saw the Karaz-a-Karak archives and thought about how the Empire has been at preserving it's history (bad).
The Great Book of Grudges, as all who know even a little of the Dwarves know, is the single tome containing every wrong the Dwarven Empire has yet to avenge. What even a little knowledge of their history would indicate is that no one tome could contain those Grudges with enough detail for those born long after those acts to avenge them. King Belegar was told to follow the High King, and King Belegar in turn told you to follow him, and the three of you walk out of the Hall and into a room that could be described as large were it not for the one you just left. Row after innumerable row of bookshelves of the Archives of the Karaz Ankor bridge the terse inventory of the Dammaz Kron with the exhaustive detail that would allow the Dwarves to know that vengeance has been done, and the room is a hive of busy activity, as a dozen venerable Longbeards each act as the center of their own swarms of younger disciples. As the High King orders the retrieval of the books on the Siege and Fall of Karak Eight Peaks, your eyes widen as you run your eyes over perfectly-preserved tomes of recorded history.

The Light Order do their best, but the Colleges have only been around for a fraction of the Empire's length, and before that a hundred tragedies each shaved away a record of history. The Great Library of Mordheim died with the city, the Sieges of Altdorf each resulted in a freezing populace burning books for heat, the Imperial Library suffered attrition every time the capital moved and was stolen back and forth a dozen times during the Age of the Three Emperors, and Dieter IV sold a good deal of what little survived to reach him to anyone willing to pay. And if that wasn't enough of a reason for his soul to be damned, when he sold Marienburg its independence, it took the Great Library of Verena with it, and ever since the self-righteous custodians have delighted in denying entry to citizens of the Empire. The Vaults of the Great Cathedral of Sigmar are purged every time a more conservative Grand Theogonist takes office, and there's Witch Hunters out there who consider literacy to be compelling evidence of witchcraft, and even when some poor scholar escapes the pyre it's not always guaranteed their books will.

A hundred hundred roadblocks between the average human and their past, but since the first founding of Karaz-a-Karak, every single event to ever befall the Dwarves has been carefully recorded and remains right here, carefully preserved by rune and artifice. Three thousand years ago the ancestors of the Empire had barely migrated, but every wrong done to Karak Eight Peaks had been recorded in exhausting detail, as demonstrated by the series of mighty tomes hauled over by the Dwarven attendants.
 
One of my pet takes is that WHF doesn't have religious organizations, because "religion" as a category is a concept that mostly took off IRL after the European Wars of Religion which redefined the word, and WHF hasn't had a similar event. "Cult" is a useful reminder that this is not a present-analogue world.
Have not many of the Empires civil wars involved mass cult on cult violence? Sorry I've been learning very much the hard way that innumerable wikidives and tons of quests and lore videos are no substitute for the ''first hand'' sourcebooks however deliberately contradictory they might be.
Sure they have. And lots of other bits of IRL history involved cult on cult violence too.

But to very crudely summarize a long and complicated history, what makes the European Wars of Religion such a turning point in our history is a combination of
1) stalemate and truce, usually in a war one side wins and might want to do it more after a rest, while the other side loses and wants revanchism if they still exist, but here the Leagues spent millions of lives to end up in a situation of "you know what, let's not do this again, it was a complete waste of half our military-age males"
2) the Peace of Westphalia arrangement with the declaration of nation-states to mostly recognize one another as the rightful sovereign political actors on the world stage against non-states, where previously you might find a proto-state being invaded by something like a multinational labor union
3) the other Peace of Westphalia arrangement with the invention of state religions tied to the nation-states setup as a way of keeping the peace, the sort of compromise that leaves everyone similarly disgruntled, also leading to systematization and official legibilization of religions
4) European powers being on the rise at the time international world travel becomes practical so they can impose this model on everyone else (not as directly relevant to the Sigmar's Empire part of the analogy)

To expand a bit on points 2 and 3, before the EWoR+Westphalia turning point, it was common for the laws of a region to vary based on which cult you belonged to, and not just in a "privileges for the ruling cult" sort of way. You know how Jews are not supposed to work on the Sabbath, for example, while Muslims are not supposed to drink wine? There were early states where these two rules were simultaneously enforced by the state apparatus against only members of the respective religion.

Again, history is big and messy, everything has some obscure ancient precedent if you stretch hard enough -
But with that said, EWoR+Westphalia is mostly where we get the modern idea that "a state" is the proper entity to have a code of law enforceable with coercion, as opposed to the Smiths' Guild being able to fine or flog smithing apprentices, and likewise "a state" is the proper entity to have a "state religion" (which can be None) and choose how harshly to impose this, as opposed to every local cult running around doing vigilante enforcement with varying degrees of coercion.

Like, if the Democrat Party wins local elections in California and begin passing Democrat-aligned laws that apply also to the Republicans there, we mostly accept that that's just how the political process works.
Prior to the codification of "religion" as a special case above, it was a lot more common and accepted that sometimes the Catholic Party would win local elections and use its political power to impose Catholic-aligned laws that apply also to the Protestants and atheists there, that's just how the political process used to work.

And that, I figure, is how the much of political process in Sigmar's Empire still works. The Sigmarites and the Ulricans have mostly backed off from the open bloodshed and settled to grumbling at each other, but both cults still play that sort of game of trying to get leverage to compel each other and trying to become the dominant cult in the Empire. Fear of retribution and national brotherhood can check them somewhat, but there's no meme of "it's wrong to mix religion cult and politics", that would be as absurd to them as saying "it's wrong to mix political party membership and voting".
 
Other people have handled 1 and 3, so:
2. I think I missed something in the Panoramia socials? It seemed like one moment we were lecturing her about being reckless with her magic while she quivered in her boots and the next moment Mathilde was grumpy that Pan didn't buy into her mystique? When did that happen?
We didn't really interact with Panoramia onscreen at all between taking the Loremaster job at K8P and establishing the weekly meetings for the wizards. At the very first meeting, this happened:
You turn your gaze to Johann, who opens his mouth and then closes it, thinking. "Classified?" he says doubtfully.

"Damn right it is. Good man. Now I don't have to mess with memories." The Ducklings look alarmed, but Panoramia's rolling her eyes. She's caught on to your ways. "Panoramia! How go things with the Halflings?"
So even at this early date, she has learned not to take Mathilde super seriously. Which, presumably was the result of us having scared the shit out of her during the K8P campaign, paying close attention to what we did from that point on because she was worried that the Grey were after her, and then realizing that... we like to mess with people, yeah, but we don't actually throw our power around with others just to feel like a big shot. If Mathilde is talking about what she's gonna do to you, she's just playing; actually serious Mathilde sounds completely different from trolling Mathilde (I don't think Mathilde ever threatens when she's being serious, she just does things and leaves the threat implicit in her capabilities). And as Panoramia said during our zeroth date, some of that insight came from observing Wolf and noticing that our soul-bonded familiar was a lovable goofball who people half his size were comfortable entrusting their children to, and not, like, the terror that hunts in the night.

To absolutely toot my own horn, I recommend the link in my sig with the history of our time as Loremaster, which helps check which turns we took which actions/social actions with which people.
 
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I was rereading the story again and found myself both sad and amused at this tidbit from Belegar.
"If I truly cared for the safety and future of my people, I'd have never sought the forces to accomplish this," he says quietly. "Clan Angrund, sure, Clan Angrund never allowed itself to settle down, and would have marched towards extinction if someone didn't find a way to succeed. But the others? The Norgrimlings were comfortable in Zhufbar. Helhein were celebrated in Karak Norn. The Bronzefists had their own mountain in the Vaults - not the biggest mountain, nor the richest, but it was theirs. And a dozen other clans either considering or in the process of uprooting for the home none of their ancestors for three dozen generations has seen. The Karaz Ankor is not hurting for space - the entire lot of us could fit within Karaz-a-Karak these days. So if we don't need the space, and I'm not seeking to expunge Grudges with Dwarven blood, and I'm unable to retake the home of my ancestors without abandoning their ways, what am I accomplishing?"

"Karak Azul?" you hazard.

He remains silent for a while, and then exhales. "It's true. Their reconnection to the Karaz Ankor might not be possible any other way. But I find it difficult to find satisfaction in their Karak when my own is so diminished, and will never be otherwise in my lifetime."
The most painful thing in the world is to never achieve your life's dream. The second most painful is truly, to actually achieve it and not know what to do with yourself afterwards.

1. Did we ever find out what the deal was with that dead Patriarch at the beginning of the story?
Hexensohn's circumstances are still a mystery beyond 'he touched something he shouldn't have'. Personally, I hope that if the Orbflex allows us boons from each of the Colleges in exchange for the Orbs, that for the Amethysts we straight up ask them.

2. I think I missed something in the Panoramia socials? It seemed like one moment we were lecturing her about being reckless with her magic while she quivered in her boots and the next moment Mathilde was grumpy that Pan didn't buy into her mystique? When did that happen?
I think it's a case of Mathilde interacting with her in situations that show her softer side. The miscast talk was stern, but it can be seen as Mathilde being angry because she was worried. And the next conversation she had with her, shortly after, was a very down-to-earth interaction alongside the expedition's halflings while cooking. Bit hard to maintain a façade of mystique when you ask someone what a whisk is.

Showing vulnerability is a great way to build a connection with others, even if that's not quite your intention.
 
I still want Mathilde to one day meet that vampire in Nuln with possible the largest dark art book collection. Mathilde's collection may rival his and I would like Mathilde to meet someone to start a book club with.
 
Boney is keeping the circumstances surrounding Hexensohn's death a secret in case future endeavors (likely College politics related) result in us running into Amethyst secrets. However, we do know that the reason they showed up at the Drakenhof campaign was because we crit failed our request for reinforcements and the people that showed up did not buy into the Van Hal family redemption story (despite it being true).
This was absolutely the answer I was looking for, thanks!
It didn't really get much in-story focus, but those were the products of basically years of thread discussions.

The Library especially, who's genesis can be seen that time Mathilde saw the Karaz-a-Karak archives and thought about how the Empire has been at preserving it's history (bad).
That's a pretty good reason for the library! I know this is a years ago longshot but does anyone remember the specific thread discussions so I can know the out of character reasons?
We didn't really interact with Panoramia onscreen at all between taking the Loremaster job at K8P and establishing the weekly meetings for the wizards. At the very first meeting, this happened:
I think it's a case of Mathilde interacting with her in situations that show her softer side. The miscast talk was stern, but it can be seen as Mathilde being angry because she was worried. And the next conversation she had with her, shortly after, was a very down-to-earth interaction alongside the expedition's halflings while cooking. Bit hard to maintain a façade of mystique when you ask someone what a whisk is.
I suppose that makes sense in retrospect. It feels like a very sudden character shift that you don't really have warning or reasoning for at the time, but taken as a whole it makes a bit more sense.
 
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The most painful thing in the world is to never achieve your life's dream. The second most painful is truly, to actually achieve it and not know what to do with yourself afterwards.
Belegar's first reaction to finding out about the Karaz Ankor's Waystone network and Karak Eight Peaks part in it was to assume Thorgrim was stealing from him (and from the other Karaks). But since then he's had cause to rethink that:
"And yet Borek ran around the Karaz Ankor for eighteen decades and never got more than accommodation and half an ear from Thorgrim." Belegar frowns as he processes that. "So either Karag Dum benefited or was complicit in some way..."

"Or there's more to it than Karaz-a-Karak benefitting at the expense of the other Dwarfholds," you finish.

Belegar scowls as he considers it further. "I'll have to give this matter more thought," he finally concedes.
And of course there was the 7010 council of Kings. And last we've heard...
You jot down a few mental notes in preparation for sharing your impressions with Belegar, who's shown a quiet but intense interest in the goings-on at Karaz-a-Karak recently, and begin to make your way back to the airport.
I'm not sure if Belegar is quiet there yet, but even if he's not I think he will eventually manage to look past his hate for Thorgrim and see the Karaz Ankor's Waystone network for what it truly is: a post hoc justification for his life's work. Sometimes you spend your whole life doing something because that's what your father and his father before him did, and when you finally achieve your goal it turns out that it's not what you thought it'll be but hey at least you saved your species from slow extinction.
 
I'm not sure if Belegar is quiet there yet, but even if he's not I think he will eventually manage to look past his hate for Thorgrim and see the Karaz Ankor's Waystone network for what it truly is: a post hoc justification for his life's work. Sometimes you spend your whole life doing something because that's what your father and his father before him did, and when you finally achieve your goal it turns out that it's not what you thought it'll be but hey at least you saved your species from slow extinction.
If nothing else, Thorgrim at the council was basically saying exactly the things he needed to say if he wants any chance of Belegar not hating him for life.

Though it's hard to say if he's quite aware of it.
 
Khazalid quiestion: how exactly does the word "Thaggoraki" translate? It means Skaven, but we have seen just "Raki" used as well and the dictionary Mathilde wrote is named "Rakilid un Thaggorhun".

My best guess is that it's translated as "treacherous rats", would it be correct? And the book then would be "The rat-speech and the writings of treachery" if I grasped it right lmao.
 
I suppose that makes sense in retrospect. It feels like a very sudden character shift that you don't really have warning or reasoning for at the time, but taken as a whole it makes a bit more sense.
Boney's writing is not based off narrative concepts. If a character develops offscreen, Boney will do it if makes sense from an internal logic perspective. He won't give warnings or reasonings just because it's satisfying to us as the audience. It's part of Boney's ethos that he's making a quest, not a story, and that we're only one person with a flawed and limited viewpoint.

Boney makes a damn good story, but it's important to remember that he writes this as a quest first. Even when doing socials he doesn't seem inclined to write fluff, even though I know that I personally would eat it up like a ravenous dog:
Panoramia dates aren't so much on a strict timer as they are reliant on me having an idea for it. Most social actions are easy enough because it's just putting Mathilde on a certain trajectory and seeing what happens, but there's not really that many pending questions or resolvable tensions in the relationship with Panoramia.
 
That's a pretty good reason for the library! I know this is a years ago longshot but does anyone remember the specific thread discussions so I can know the out of character reasons?
The discussion that formed the seed of BOOKBOON, as it became memetically called in the thread, took place after we got the Transcendent Boon in Waaagh Birdmuncha Part 6. I believe this post, specifically, is the one that first proposed the use of the boon to buy books, and other people took that and ran with it for a great library.
I think the best use of the boon would be to get a nice-to-have. Having Belegar do something like funding our library or sponsoring a costly personal project. Essentially things that we can ask from any rich and powerful dwarf king.

EDIT: I suppose we could save up every boon and favor we accumulate to spend on creating our own kingdom. I kinda like the idea of that tbh. Sounds like the start of a quest though, hilariously.
There's only 200 pages between the threadmark we got the Boon in and the next one, though, so feel free to dig through it :p
Khazalid quiestion: how exactly does the word "Thaggoraki" translate? It means Skaven, but we have seen just "Raki" used as well and the dictionary Mathilde wrote is named "Rakilid un Thaggorhun".

My best guess is that it's translated as "treacherous rats", would it be correct? And the book then would be "The rat-speech and the writings of treachery" if I grasped it right lmao.
I took a stab at translating this a few years ago and Boney confirmed it:
I believe this means something like "Rat-tongue and savage runes" -- "Thaggoraki" is Skaven, but my understanding was that it derives from "Thag" (a cowardly or treacherous killing), "gorak" (cunning), and the "this is a person or a race" suffix -i, which I would gloss as "Assassin-folk." However, Boney has elected to break up the word in different places than that, so I had to get creative -- thag + gor would be murder + beast, which I glossed as "savage", and I think "raki" is being used in the sense of Kolraki, Stormvermin, where "kol" means black and I'm going to assume "raki" means "rats." In contrast, the other bits are much easier: "lid" just means tongue, in both the sense of the body part and the concept of a language (cf "Khazalid," "tongue of underground halls"), "un" means "and," and "rhun" means "rune" because sometimes Games Workshop doesn't even pretend to try.
You were dead-on with the translation, this time my focus was on it sounding right, rather than deeper meanings. An earlier version was 'Thaggilid and Rakirhun', but the former sounds like a person and the latter like a place, it really doesn't roll off the tongue well, and 'Thaggilid' doesn't sound Khazalid-y to me.
 
Khazalid quiestion: how exactly does the word "Thaggoraki" translate? It means Skaven, but we have seen just "Raki" used as well and the dictionary Mathilde wrote is named "Rakilid un Thaggorhun".

My best guess is that it's translated as "treacherous rats", would it be correct? And the book then would be "The rat-speech and the writings of treachery" if I grasped it right lmao.
Basically.

'Thag' means 'to slay by act of treachery'
'Gor' means 'beast'. (Hence it's common usage to describe Beastmen units)
'-ak' is a signifier that means that it's describing a concept, rather than a physical thing
'-i' is a suffix that means it's referring to an individual, profession, or race (so Umgak for the concept of 'shoddy work', Umgi for 'the people that make shoddy things')

So the piecemeal definition would be 'Treacherous beasts', but Grudgelore defines Thaggoraki itself as 'Skaven, assassin, footpad'.

Edit: Weber'd by Pickle and he did it better
 
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Hey, what the heck? All the content in everyone's posts just disappeared.

EDIT: Now it's back. Glad it got fixed relatively quickly.
 
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4. I remember we used to have student loans or something, right? Does every College wizard take student loans? Because that seems extremely fucked up for something you literally have to do. Just like real life heeyooo

Some apprentices come from families rich enough to pay the tuition fees up front. I suspect Hubert and Eike, and maybe even Adela, all probably had their families pay their way through their education.

Then you get orphans like Mathilde and Gretel who have no family, or a way to pay the fees, so they get saddled with student debt on top of their journeying tithe.

I suspect it's another subtle leash the colleges use to control their junior wizards—those that had their families pay for them are informally indebted to their kin, creating strong ties that way, whilst those who took out loans have a direct financial reason to be a successful wizard or else they'll get pulled up infront of the bursar and yelled at (and considering that Mathilde is still slightly scared of the Bursar, it's an effective tactic).

It does feel unfair, because every wizard was conscripted into the colleges on pain of death, but it clearly works because otherwise they'd have abandoned it by now.
 
Wow, Warhammer really is grimdark.

I can accept literally medieval class disparities and corruption, I can accept the satan-expy of chaos literally being real and out to get you, I can accept having to be friendly with monsters like the Norscans or Druuchi as a lesser evil.

But forced student loans? It feels gross just thinking about it. It's too real.
 
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We're not that wealthy.

And the Colleges probably wouldn't appreciate it.
We are not that wealthy yet. Wait till silk and the Ilthimar trade go through.

While the colleges may not like it ok much since it is a way to keep ties on people we could always do that adventure guild we talked about doing years ago. We would probably have to do some kind of deal with the colleges but there is stuff the colleges would like done and financial incentive to said Journeyman would also help. Go on this life and death adventure Mathilde pats your debts. Become a research assistant Mathilde pats your death. And so on for things.
 
We are not that wealthy yet. Wait till silk and the Ilthimar trade go through.

While the colleges may not like it ok much since it is a way to keep ties on people we could always do that adventure guild we talked about doing years ago. We would probably have to do some kind of deal with the colleges but there is stuff the colleges would like done and financial incentive to said Journeyman would also help. Go on this life and death adventure Mathilde pats your debts. Become a research assistant Mathilde pats your death. And so on for things.
Would a Mathilde-run adventurer's guild be the closest possible equivalent to a Ranaldian Knightly Order? :V
 
We are not that wealthy yet. Wait till silk and the Ilthimar trade go through.

While the colleges may not like it ok much since it is a way to keep ties on people we could always do that adventure guild we talked about doing years ago. We would probably have to do some kind of deal with the colleges but there is stuff the colleges would like done and financial incentive to said Journeyman would also help. Go on this life and death adventure Mathilde pats your debts. Become a research assistant Mathilde pats your death. And so on for things.
If you want to hire wizards, spend College Favor.

Boney's never been interested in buying magic with gold. And I would remind you, Mathilde should at least pay lip service to the Vow of Poverty.
 
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