- Location
- Earth
There's no vote yet, it'll probably be part of next turn's planning.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- UK
I suspect it's nothing so exotic. Iirc the spell invisibility doesn't work by bending light, or super transparency, or mental illusions. It makes you invisible by making you invisible. This also applies to Windsight, because you are now invisible.
It's probable this is just a similar effect. Make you more attractive, or perceived as such. This includes to the sense of Windsight, and this is just the best way to make Dhar seem attractive to Mathilde.
An interesting thought actually, is this because Mathilde finds magical power under Windsight attractive, so it's playing off that? If someone didn't feel that, and also wasn't disgusted by the Dhar, would they even have that sense warped at all?
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
What your describing sounds like a mental illusion though? If it's not light blocking the spell would be need be perception blocking no?
- Location
- UK
Nah man, like I said, it's not a mental illusion. It makes you invisible by making you invisible.
It's magic, it ain't gotta explain shit.
…for real though, I don't suppose anyone has the quote? Im kind of on my phone and about to sleep.
Edit: Ah, unless you meant due to Mathilde's perception? Yeah, that would be a flaw in my theory. But then who defines 'attractive'? Probably the caster, which might tell us some things of her perceptions on Dhar.
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Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Looking at this... I think it's likely that any Druchii-related actions on the next turn will be divided between general or more specific from each of these three.
I still wouldn't want to commit to anything with them, but it's possible that we might have some very low-risk options with them, such as 'just get to know this guy for a month'. I mentioned it before, but something along those lines of developing a Diplomacy skill for Druchii would be the most harmless thing to obtain from them.
Hmm, I see Laurelorn's play here.
By inviting the Druchii to the diplomatic table, it sends a message to Ulthuan - "do you want to get your own foot in?".
That the Druchii intel is untrusted does not matter, because it has created the following scenarios:
-Ulthuan offers no deal, We take the Druchii deal -> Ulthuan loses influence, Naggaroth gains influence, Waystone network in danger no matter what.
-Ulthuan offers no deal, We refuse the Druchii deal -> Waystone network in danger from blind experiments, they cannot make a deal to make us stop, because they'd have to deal with Laurelorn aligning with Druchii if they lean on the Empire to make Mathilde stop, and Naggaroth would be alert and ready to take advantage if they try to force the matter.
-Ulthuan offers a deal -> We get to next level negotiations where its now Ulthuan trying to make a deal to impose restrictions on what we get to play with while Naggaroth offers a suspect deal but one that we theoretically can take if Ulthuan's deal is too unfavorable.
Laurelorn and Mathilde's best position here is thus to be intererested but not eager for a deal. We want to make small transactions for verifiable lore, but we absolutely do not want to commit to Druchii joining the project in any shape or form.
Naggaroth's best position here meanwhile is to escalate the Marienburg situation while we talk, to weaken Ulthuan's bargaining position because they have to choose between their Marienburg interests and their Waystone interests, they benefit no matter what. Their first bits traded are unlikely to be straight up hazardous, these are elves and they play the long game, the most is that they'd give genuine information, but with the safeties left out as a test.
Ulthuan gets to choose between getting screwed on many things...or swallow their pride and recognize Laurelorn proper. Which still has them screwed in domestic politics, something the Druchii will exploit.
By inviting the Druchii to the diplomatic table, it sends a message to Ulthuan - "do you want to get your own foot in?".
That the Druchii intel is untrusted does not matter, because it has created the following scenarios:
-Ulthuan offers no deal, We take the Druchii deal -> Ulthuan loses influence, Naggaroth gains influence, Waystone network in danger no matter what.
-Ulthuan offers no deal, We refuse the Druchii deal -> Waystone network in danger from blind experiments, they cannot make a deal to make us stop, because they'd have to deal with Laurelorn aligning with Druchii if they lean on the Empire to make Mathilde stop, and Naggaroth would be alert and ready to take advantage if they try to force the matter.
-Ulthuan offers a deal -> We get to next level negotiations where its now Ulthuan trying to make a deal to impose restrictions on what we get to play with while Naggaroth offers a suspect deal but one that we theoretically can take if Ulthuan's deal is too unfavorable.
Laurelorn and Mathilde's best position here is thus to be intererested but not eager for a deal. We want to make small transactions for verifiable lore, but we absolutely do not want to commit to Druchii joining the project in any shape or form.
Naggaroth's best position here meanwhile is to escalate the Marienburg situation while we talk, to weaken Ulthuan's bargaining position because they have to choose between their Marienburg interests and their Waystone interests, they benefit no matter what. Their first bits traded are unlikely to be straight up hazardous, these are elves and they play the long game, the most is that they'd give genuine information, but with the safeties left out as a test.
Ulthuan gets to choose between getting screwed on many things...or swallow their pride and recognize Laurelorn proper. Which still has them screwed in domestic politics, something the Druchii will exploit.
- Location
- Earth
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
...This is a really good point. We may or may not have an external social action in the next few turns that is basically this, but for the Asur. If so, they would be way more reliable for the Project's needs of the leylines codes - they can be trusted to care for their own interests.
Laurelorn invited them in, I presume with some hint of what they're invited for, but not necessarily the specifics.
Considering they don't have the centralized authority to control raids without Malekith's enthustiastic (and brutal) support help from their factions to fuck over the factions responsible is the best we can get.
Unfortunately I can't find the chapter but in the long term an important question is whether the cultural 'personhood' gap that Mathilde theorizes is behind Elven arrogance could ever be bridged with a Druuchi. If the Ulricans and Laurelorn can see each other as, if not equals, at least people because they share something now what could ever be shared with the Druuchi to make them want to stop being monstrous slavers?
Allying with the people here could be justified for our long term benefit (not least of which would be being better able to fend off the Druuchi later on) even if they are irredeemable villains but maybe it's possible to make inroads with some individuals and factions?
Unfortunately I can't find the chapter but in the long term an important question is whether the cultural 'personhood' gap that Mathilde theorizes is behind Elven arrogance could ever be bridged with a Druuchi. If the Ulricans and Laurelorn can see each other as, if not equals, at least people because they share something now what could ever be shared with the Druuchi to make them want to stop being monstrous slavers?
Allying with the people here could be justified for our long term benefit (not least of which would be being better able to fend off the Druuchi later on) even if they are irredeemable villains but maybe it's possible to make inroads with some individuals and factions?
- Location
- Washington
While recognizing what Boney has said about canon Druuchi society not being able to exist for very long, we gotta make note that anyone we're negotiating with is gonna be higher level Druuchi, not "do your job, own maybe one slave to do the housework and try to keep your head down on the night the khainites go murder happy" sorts and I'm not 100% sure that level of Druuchi even gives personhood to Other Druuchi.
Even considering the analysis, I wouldn't want to put us up for any trades in services. The question here is not "can we trust the Druchii", but rather "what can we trade that can be verified"
This means yes to trades in material goods, maybe to trades in knowledge, and no to trades in military or political action.
E: Avoid dealing in absolutes here. Thats fine and good for a solo hero sort, but a hard, moralistic No is straight up bad for the Empire, because we're already heading into conflict(if minor) with Ulthuan on multiple levels, and here is their rival superpower offering to spoke the wheels, which they're offering to do for a price we can afford due to said conflict.
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Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I wouldn't mind making having a few more conversations with Maktig on a personal level. He's likely committed atrocities but he seems the least unpleasant of the bunch. Ideally that's not a good-cop facade meant to throw people off.
- Location
- Oregon
No, we're not. Any force sent against Mariansburg is a force that could be fighting beastmen or orcs or norscans or vampires (less a problem now) or, uh, other provinces. Mariensburg is like having a malignant tumor when someone is trying to stab you. It will NEVER be the priority, even as it causes constant problems.
That said, if the delfs take em out then druchii might end up a very real problem for the empire.
Stick with the canal.
- Location
- Australia
Keep in mind that every Dark Elf we spoke to finished the conversation with, basically; contact me again if you want to talk more.
ie, because they're visiting the Wood Elves often, we can resume negotiations practically whenever; at worst once every X turns, if they'll only come yearly, or whatever.
So we have time to get Dark Elf-relating books from every source, speak to human, wizard, and Elf experts and diplomats, etc.
Also, please stop fearmongering over the Dark Elves sabotaging the Waystone Project - literally not one person has suggested even mentioning it to them, let alone bringing them in on it.
All that has been floated is learning some codes from them - and remember that the Network has a guiding intelligence that refuses any commands it thinks damaging.
ie, because they're visiting the Wood Elves often, we can resume negotiations practically whenever; at worst once every X turns, if they'll only come yearly, or whatever.
So we have time to get Dark Elf-relating books from every source, speak to human, wizard, and Elf experts and diplomats, etc.
Also, please stop fearmongering over the Dark Elves sabotaging the Waystone Project - literally not one person has suggested even mentioning it to them, let alone bringing them in on it.
All that has been floated is learning some codes from them - and remember that the Network has a guiding intelligence that refuses any commands it thinks damaging.
This comment has concerning implications for getting too close with him.
Why precisely does he know how fierce they are at sea?
- Location
- California, USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Presumably he's talking about Chaos Dwarves
EDIT: No, he's talking about Barak Varr, I just misread it.
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nope he speficlaly says stone dwarves since we were just talking about the chaos dwarves and says other kind as well. For why he knows how fierces they are at sea, why cause he a slaver, coasir, pirate who being sent here as made there way to the top of the totem pole of coaiser. Which mean he has committed unspeakable acts, atroicties all manners of horros many prob like raiding dwarf ships, taking dwarves prisoner making them slaves, stealing there shit ect
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Because he's fought the Barak Varr navy.
- Location
- Canada
Barak Varr has a massive navy and a trading network that spans all the way to the likes of Araby and Lustria
Captain Maktig has almost certainly had run ins with Dwarven Ironclads as he attempted to plunder them for their cargo and passengers
Chaos Dwarves would be the Fire Dwarves, not Stone Dwarves
- Location
- California, USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
"Are they as fierce on land as they are at sea?" - Asking about "the other kind of Dwarves", meaning "on sea" is not stone dwarves
Stone Dwarves fight on land, Chaos Dwarves fight on sea. I don't think he knows the difference between the two. At least, that's how I read it, I wasn't thinking about Barrak Varr, and it is a bit confusing grammatically.
Stone Dwarves fight on land, Chaos Dwarves fight on sea. I don't think he knows the difference between the two. At least, that's how I read it, I wasn't thinking about Barrak Varr, and it is a bit confusing grammatically.
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