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Would getting Haletha officially on the "Chill Gods you Can Worhsip" list require a full Elector's Meet or would this involve somehow using the 'Great Deed' to get the ear of someone on the other religious meet-up that happens every so often that the Ranaldites keep sneaking into?
The Empire has a blacklist of gods you can't worship, rather than a whitelist of gods you can worship. Haletha isn't a proscribed god, so she is essentially viewed as fine. What isn't fine are the Hedgewise themselves, which is a different topic.
 
I wouldn't put to much weight on the Caledor thing. It's a suggestion from one of the characters, who is far from all-knowing, and based on pretty limited knowledge. There's something there to discover. It may be Caledor. It could be not-quite-dead elves, not-quite-dead-slann (as seen in one of the Gotrek books), not-quite-dead-humans (also that Gotrek book), some sort of spirit, or even something else.

We have not solved the mystery. We've only discovered that there is a mystery at all.
 
I wouldn't put to much weight on the Caledor thing. It's a suggestion from one of the characters, who is far from all-knowing, and based on pretty limited knowledge. There's something there to discover. It may be Caledor. It could be not-quite-dead elves, not-quite-dead-slann (as seen in one of the Gotrek books), not-quite-dead-humans (also that Gotrek book), some sort of spirit, or even something else.

We have not solved the mystery. We've only discovered that there is a mystery at all.
It's an educated guess that holds weight because it's probable. It has supporting evidence from an out of character perspective since Page 19 of High Elves 8th Edition says this in regards to the Sundering:

"At dusk, the Witch King and his followers began their final push. Daemonic sorcerers came to their aid, and the last spells of the defenders collapsed before their onslaught. From the sky, the triumphant laughter of the Dark Gods was heard. Then, as the tainted magic touched the Isle of the Dead at the very heart of the Great Vortex, new players entered the game. Mighty figures clad in light sent the surge of mystical power tumbling back to Nagarythe. The trapped mages of the Isle of the Dead refused to let their work be undone."

There is explicit mention of the mages of the Isle of the Dead actively fighting back against the magic of Malekith where he attempted to undo the Vortex. It's not a guarantee or confirmation, but it's a good guess and has a higher probability than other scenarios.
 
Hmm. I'm more and more convinced that the "maybe the Winds *are* Gods" theory may be on to something...
The Winds are a bit more impersonal than gods tend to be, but there are those who worship the Winds as Gods so you could make that argument. Anointed priests who wield divine magic are also capable of receiving Divine Marks, so it's just a matter of the human soul interacting with the Warp. You always come back changed.
 
I'm starting to really really think we might want to use our remaining Great Deed to get Haletha officially approved with a very limited purview of purifying one specific spot.

@Boney Would getting Haletha officially on the "Chill Gods you Can Worhsip" list require a full Elector's Meet or would this involve somehow using the 'Great Deed' to get the ear of someone on the other religious meet-up that happens every so often that the Ranaldites keep sneaking into?
Let's not jump the gun. If we want to see how Halétha can help us we first need to try out the Halétha tributary and look at the Forest of Shadows nexuses. We'll probably get a better idea of how useful Halétha can or can't make herself as we work alongside Aksel on those things.

In any case, Halétha is not technically proscribed, it's just that her "priesthood", the Haléthan Hedgewise, are illegitimate magic users, and as Boney pointed out before just having the Hedgewise recognized as Haléthan priests isn't likely to fly because many Hedgefolk don't worship Halétha and still practice Hedge magic. And if we do want to get the Hedgewise in general or just the Haléthan Hedgewise legitimized we need to keep in mind that it's going to be very difficult. It will be opposed, at a minimum, by the Cult of Sigmar, the Cult of Taal, and most if not all of the Colleges of Magic. Those are very powerful organizations, and I don't see the Emperor snubbing all of them at once without very very good reason.
 
New waystone project stretch goal: a combined runed/enchanted machine that can replicate the vortex. Without a caster.

Caledor Dragontamer deserves rest.
Yes, A machine of stone. One might even call it...A Man of Stone. It is a brilliant idea and there is absolutely no way this could completely backfire and result in near human extinction! In fact. :p...?

In all seriousness, we actually have to be incredibly fucking careful with a machine to manage the network for exactly the fear that it might be corrupted slowly by chaos, who can be willing to wait a very long time to fuck over you.
 
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Dumb, unresearched questions drawn from a sleep-deprived mind, go!


Was Thorek's comment regarding 'even Kragg working his entire life not being enough' in regards to the Dhar-burning rune we have on our Belt, and if not could it be of use in mitigation?

How is a Kislev-esque independent Network dedicated to a God, and is there any reason an Empire Network could not be equally dedicated to its Big Three?
Cuts down on schism-ing a lot, even if there'd still be those scheming and arguing for a bigger cut.


Could Karag Dum just be feeding its excess Winds and/or Dhar to the Beastmen, attracting and benefiting them just like a disconnected Waystone would?
 
How is a Kislev-esque independent Network dedicated to a God, and is there any reason an Empire Network could not be equally dedicated to its Big Three?
Cuts down on schism-ing a lot, even if there'd still be those scheming and arguing for a bigger cut.

Unfortunately we can't do the god-vortex thing in the Empire because of Politics. The Ulrican's think the Sigmarites should be subordinate to them because Mortal Sigmar was an Ulrican, Sigmarites think Ulrican's should be subordinate to them because it's Sigmar's Empire, and the Taalites thinks they should both be subordinate to the King of the Forest. Sharing divine power isn't really possible, and splitting the Empire into three roughly equal areas each controlled by a single cult would create so many problems with borders and jurisdictions that it's giving me a headache just thinking about it.
 
Hm, this does make me wonder. Whatever method Caldor and Co is using to controll and listen to the command of the waystone, it seems to be slightly flexiable when they got their attention turned the right way.

Which is why the waystone responded faster and denied commands, because Caldor was looking that direction due to our group flipping the lightswitch on and off, and at some point in the past the Dwarven waystone was very closely connect to the Elven waystone network.

And we talked about doing morse code to essentially talk to the Trapped Elven vortex mages, is it possible that the ancient dwarves has actually done that? The ancient creation and wonders of the Dwarven empire was done with the help of Elven mages..Is it possible it wasn't just the living ones, so to speak.
 
The Winds are a bit more impersonal than gods tend to be, but there are those who worship the Winds as Gods so you could make that argument. Anointed priests who wield divine magic are also capable of receiving Divine Marks, so it's just a matter of the human soul interacting with the Warp. You always come back changed.

Well, aren't the Chaos Gods also a bit more personal and direct than most other Gods? If the Eight are somehow opposite to the Four, as IIRC has been suggested before, then it wouldn't be a stretch to think that They take a relatively hands-off approach.
 
Caledor and his crew have spent the last however many thousands of years doing nothing but watching the collapse of the Waystone network in real time. It's like Thorgrim, but worse.

It's interesting that their control mechanism works in real time, instead of there being a delay for transmission. I wonder how they're doing that?

Any plans to dedicate the Waystones to a god to purify the dhar might run into a significant problem in that we've agreed to dedicate them all to Hekarti.
 
"Caledor Dragontamer?" you ask, and Sarvoi nods.

That raises a question about networks that are physically disconnected from Ulthuan.

The mind behind Kislev's network is known, but who controls Dwarven ones? Who reacted to Belegar completing his crown? And there's Nehekaran one, that's another can of worms if the mind behind their is not quite benign and wears a ridiculous hat.
 
One of the major concerns of the Waystone Project is that if the one or very limited number of Waystones connecting the Old World with Ulthuan is lost or destroyed, all of the Old World could become a giant lake of dhar. Therefore, "how could we maintain the flows of the network without those connections to the Vortex" is a leading concern of the Project.
That was not how I read the update at all. Mathilde's biggest concern was getting cut off from The Vortex and never once was it implied Vortex itself was in a danger. More to point there is an solution presented already by using a god. Not politically palatable to use atm but in an emergency can be used just fine.

Apparations don't really have place in this. Not one that is plausable anyways. I feel like Thread is just taking it as a challange.
 
It's an educated guess that holds weight because it's probable. It has supporting evidence from an out of character perspective since Page 19 of High Elves 8th Edition says this in regards to the Sundering:

"At dusk, the Witch King and his followers began their final push. Daemonic sorcerers came to their aid, and the last spells of the defenders collapsed before their onslaught. From the sky, the triumphant laughter of the Dark Gods was heard. Then, as the tainted magic touched the Isle of the Dead at the very heart of the Great Vortex, new players entered the game. Mighty figures clad in light sent the surge of mystical power tumbling back to Nagarythe. The trapped mages of the Isle of the Dead refused to let their work be undone."

There is explicit mention of the mages of the Isle of the Dead actively fighting back against the magic of Malekith where he attempted to undo the Vortex. It's not a guarantee or confirmation, but it's a good guess and has a higher probability than other scenarios.
It's a reasonable guess worth checking out. I don't deny that. It is not, as I've seen quite a few people treat it, ironclad proof.

Also, that snippet doesn't support 'It's Caledor for sure'. It supports 'The Vortex contains dead mages'. Which is something I actually pointed out as a possibility in my post. But even assuming the Vortex is the be all end all, there's so many variations. Are these the initial elves, still fighting? Does Ulthuan regularly feed in new souls to take up the vigil? Are they so transformed as to be apparitions, or perhaps are apparitions that were born for it? And again, just because the elves do it one way, doesn't necessarily mean everyone else does it that way.

Hell, I would say the evidence for 'A god did it' is stronger, because we've seen several things that show it works that way in Kislev. So what's to say it doesn't in the Empire? Maybe that explains how Sigmar got where he is.

Point is, we don't know enough. Speculation is fine, but only if you remain aware that it is speculation, and that certainty is still a good way off.
 
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More to the point, the current controll system of the waystone works...So adding another innteligence to the system might mess something up. Worst case scenario, it might actually throw Caldor and Co of their game, doing something potentially world-troubling to the Vortex.

So while adding a new inteligence to the system might be neat...I don't think it should be the top of our list of priorties
 
Codex, could you please find the quote from there about common Elves joining Waystones after death? My pdf file is in a different language and with unsearchable text, impeding my own attempts to find it.
Uh, sure. Page 26 of High Elves 8th Edition, Fate of the Spirit:

"To guard against such fates, all High Elves are spiritually bound to the waystones of their ancestral lands. From the moment of binding onwards, each Elf feels a powerful connection to the land upon which his waystone rests, though he may spend a lifetime wandering other lands. Many High Elves carry wayshards, small gemstones attuned to the network of waystones that allow their bearers to 'feel' the position of individual stones, and thus navigate the world.

When an Elf dies, his soul is drawn to his bound waystone, and becomes part of the ritual that sustains the Great Vortex. In this way, the folk of Ulthuan continue to protect, in death, the world they defended in life. It is even said that, at midnight, the hills and fields about a waystone tremble to the gallop of invisible hooves and ring with the din of a battle that lies beyond mortal sight.

Thus is the loss of even a single waystone a terrible tragedy. Not only does its fall diminish the magics of the Great Vortex, but with its destruction, the spirits within lose their anchor, and are left defenceless before the gaze of predatory gods."

A reminder that Boney does not like 8th Edition Elf lore regarding Slaanesh coveting Elf souls and has issues with Elven soul lore.
 
It's an educated guess that holds weight because it's probable. It has supporting evidence from an out of character perspective since Page 19 of High Elves 8th Edition says this in regards to the Sundering:

"At dusk, the Witch King and his followers began their final push. Daemonic sorcerers came to their aid, and the last spells of the defenders collapsed before their onslaught. From the sky, the triumphant laughter of the Dark Gods was heard. Then, as the tainted magic touched the Isle of the Dead at the very heart of the Great Vortex, new players entered the game. Mighty figures clad in light sent the surge of mystical power tumbling back to Nagarythe. The trapped mages of the Isle of the Dead refused to let their work be undone."

There is explicit mention of the mages of the Isle of the Dead actively fighting back against the magic of Malekith where he attempted to undo the Vortex. It's not a guarantee or confirmation, but it's a good guess and has a higher probability than other scenarios.
also two different novel series from Black Library have shown us the inside of the Vortex and the still cognisent mages maintaining it.
 
Again, Caledor wasn't the only one who performed the ritual. He had several others supporting him. It's not a single soul, it's a collective.
It… started as a collective. I'm not sure they could maintain any semblance of individuality through what they have spent the last many thousand years doing in perfect sync.
 
It… started as a collective. I'm not sure they could maintain any semblance of individuality through what they have spent the last many thousand years doing in perfect sync.
yeah but that doesn't mean it's a single cohesive soul either. It would be a gestalt. How that turns out I have no idea, but I'm not sure you can classify whatever the result is as "one body, one soul".
 
True enough, but it seems to be "close enough" that gold magic views the entire thing as one object.
I don't think the Gold Magic is focused on the soul aspect? The Waystone network is a system of interconnecting materials. Chamon is more likely to analyse the material composition and structure of the entire Waystone Network rather than bother with the Soul(s) guiding it. It's the Wind of logic and materials not the Wind of Life or Souls. Shyish or Ghyran would be better for exploring the soul angle than Chamon.

There are Jade spells for talking to the spirit of a tree or a river, and Amethyst magic lets you speak to Spirits. Either one could probably get a better picture of whatever's inside. Not that I think we can get anyone enthusiastic enough to do something like that.
 
Uh, sure. Page 26 of High Elves 8th Edition, Fate of the Spirit:

"To guard against such fates, all High Elves are spiritually bound to the waystones of their ancestral lands. From the moment of binding onwards, each Elf feels a powerful connection to the land upon which his waystone rests, though he may spend a lifetime wandering other lands. Many High Elves carry wayshards, small gemstones attuned to the network of waystones that allow their bearers to 'feel' the position of individual stones, and thus navigate the world.

When an Elf dies, his soul is drawn to his bound waystone, and becomes part of the ritual that sustains the Great Vortex. In this way, the folk of Ulthuan continue to protect, in death, the world they defended in life. It is even said that, at midnight, the hills and fields about a waystone tremble to the gallop of invisible hooves and ring with the din of a battle that lies beyond mortal sight.

Thus is the loss of even a single waystone a terrible tragedy. Not only does its fall diminish the magics of the Great Vortex, but with its destruction, the spirits within lose their anchor, and are left defenceless before the gaze of predatory gods."

A reminder that Boney does not like 8th Edition Elf lore regarding Slaanesh coveting Elf souls and has issues with Elven soul lore.

Ty.

I guess we will eventually find out what's the quest canon about that, I simply asked to see the exact quote from canon canon. Mathilde would probably get a wayshard herself in the foreseeable future, I look forvard to her observations of it.
 
That was not how I read the update at all. Mathilde's biggest concern was getting cut off from The Vortex and never once was it implied Vortex itself was in a danger.
I didn't mean to say that the list of issues was "what if the Vortex is in danger" and I don't think I did. What I was trying to say was that one concern of the project is "what can we do if our network is cut off from the Vortex," so... I think we're in violent agreement?
 
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