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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Eike will get to tag along and get exposure to Elves and Dwarfs, she'll get to see other magical traditions, she'll get to meet Mathilde's friends and coworkers from the other Colleges. She'll get to see the biggest library in the world, and given her interest in Learning, she'll love that. She'll also get to travel lots, given how Mathilde literally travels by gyrocopter. (... Well, she'll only travel from several places to several places in the world -- from Karak Eight Peaks to Laurelorn, to a few places in the Empire -- rather than if she were by the side of somebody like Paranoth, but.)
 
When it comes to Eike's diplo issues I do not think it would be too hard to fix, she is after all good at intrigue for all she works most at learning, we just need to push her a bit to apply that skill to talking to people.
 
BeepSmile said:
The diplo weakness is expressed differently though.

Honestly, being a bad liar/open is far from the worst weakness, if she develops her research skills enough to be able to focus on that as a Magister.

That weakness, and her wanting to be a nerd does make me feel that there's no chance she's going to want to run the EIC full time.

...maybe as an analyst/spymaster, but not a buisness person.

Over the years we're going to have to help a little bit with the whole 'easy to read' thing, possibly a bit with how it'll help in making deals for uh... Research agreements? Access to books or support for projects?
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So...she'd run it like Mathilde would?

Since Mathilde does love the research part of the job while being really good at the sneaky murder parts of it.
 
Boney said:
Like bemoaning a lost golden age, constantly searching for lost relics of the past to restore their people's legacy, and doing what they can to prevent any further slide into oblivion? The Dwarves have probably encountered Khatep at least once, and that dude's even got a beard.
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So, like. Are you rolling for him hearing about this project? If nothing else Khatep would value the opportunity to examine multiple magical practices at work in unison for synergies with his quest, and he might value driving back Chaos as giving him more time for his quest and more latitude (literally) he can search.
 
If I were to have some misgivings about Eike as our apprentice, it's that the situation is a bit close to our dear Waifu's with how she was apprenticed to her own mother. I can't help but think back to how happy Eike was when we came and visited her, and the suspicion that she had adopted us as a mother figure.
Along with that we sponsored her, and that we're a good friend of her Grandmothers, I can't help but be concerned that she might be viewed in similar ways of nepotism or develop a complex in the same way Panoramia did.
 
Only a few new clues on Halétha to dig into this update, but perhaps we can make up for quantity with quality. What can we learn from this update?

Boney said:
"So, bit of a strange question, but does Halétha have any siblings?"

He gives you a considering look. "We're not the Ostermarkers, but that doesn't mean our faith is a completely open book," he says, his tone neutral.
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This was a little dissapointing to me, but not that surprising. Mathilde would talk about our faith in Ranald with any coreligionist she trusted, but the daughters are a secret even from most faithful and to tell of them would betray the trust of four different divinities, including the one she worships. But it does seem to indicate that Aksel knows of Them - otherwise, why get so guarded? Just say "not that I'm aware". Perhaps Aksel is as trusted by Halétha as Mathilde is by Ranald, to know of such a secret. A good sign, if true.

I also think that the mention of the Ostermarkers is a point against Halétha's sister being worshipped by them. If Aksel wants to avoid telling Mathilde of the sister then mentioning the Ostermark Hedgewise in this context is a bad idea if they worship her (unless it's a double bluff). More on the Ostermark Hedgewise in a bit.
Boney said:
"If there's nothing you can tell me, that's fine. I've just encountered the name Haleth a time or two."

He seems to relax. "Oh, that. Yes, some of our people in larger towns disguise some aspects of their worship, and those half-truths have grown into almost separate faiths as outsiders see their success and attribute it to what they know of their God. Lady of the Hunt in the west, Patroness of Childbirth in the south, God of Journeys in the east. It rubs some of the hidebound the wrong way, but nobody can deny how useful it can be to have allies outside the Forest."
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So yes, Haleth is an aspect of Halétha. Good to confirm that. Also Kalita, which I can't imagine we could have ended up figuring on our own without being told.
Boney said:
You ponder that. "Do you think they worship truly out of ignorance, or do you just worship different facets of the same being?"

"Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't see their worship as lesser. If I was speaking to one of them I'd put it more diplomatically." He gives you a worried look. "Erm. I'm not, am I?"

You weigh for a moment how much truth to give, and eventually say simply, "I worship Ranald."

He nods in understanding. "Like our brothers in Middenland. No wonder you think in aspects. But no, I don't think I know the full truth of Halétha. Nobody knows every face of any being. I do think I worship Her most important facet, but I'd guess the others do too. And if I found myself lost in the Western Oblast or seeking to father a child in Middenland, I would gladly accept any help or teachings they'd be willing to share."
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Aksel is a lot of fun. His comments on the facets of a God is something that I think is important to keep in mind whenever we talk about human Gods being "really" elf Gods. Even if those are both facets of the same being, this does not mean that one is true and the others false. As Aksel says, nobody knows every face of any being. Or to paraphrase:
mathymancer said:
All men contain multitudes; the way one acts with his family is not the way one acts with his friends, which is not the way one acts with his superiors or with his subordinates. Is the Mathilde Panoramia sees the same one that Anton sees? That Belegar sees? There is no deception in that, no lie - only the simple fact that one can be many different things, and seldom all of them at once. Perhaps Gods, being so much greater than mortals, contain multitudes in a more literal sense.
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Boney said:
On your way to your next meeting in Altdorf, you make a detour to the Great Library of Altdorf to leaf through their texts on Kislevite faith, and a few hours of effort finds you a few scant paragraphs on Kalita, called by some the God of Journeys. At first glance He seems to be a poor fit for Halétha and most Imperial writers would seem to agree, describing him as a rival or aspect of Handrich, but one of the books contains the God's sigil: a singular point with roads branching downwards from it, a more angular mirror of the tree-root scars ringing Aksel's arm. It's not very difficult to see how such a thing might have come about if a little imagination is applied: a trader of Kislev on the dangerous roads of Ostland hearing a partial description of a God that might protect them from its dangers, and they find enough success to adopt that faith for their own and with a sightly garbled name. Gods do have a tendency to sprawl when they have the opportunity, don't they? And Ranald is attempting to make inroads into the sphere of commerce as Ranald the Dealer, perhaps His daughter is following in His footsteps.
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I have a lot to say about this. The Kalita revelation is probably the one big piece of information we got from this conversation regarding the daughters mystery. So what does it tell us?

First, a few scattered comments:
Kalita is male. I've argued before that the search for the daughters should focus on female Gods, and I stand by that. Kalita is very hard to connect to Halétha even if you ignore gender, but the aspects of Her that we were likely to come across - Halétha and both Haleths - were all female.
The road symbol. Seems to fit with my idea that the chevron from the coin is associated with Halétha, though it doesn't quite confirm it.
The trade connection. Aside of being a connection to Ranald's newest aspect(?), there's actually a connection in the Hedgewise spellbook to wealth - the spell Silvertide:
Codex said:
Silvertide: Using a lodestone dipped in honey, the user attracts wealth. They can get money from the ground, more money than expected from deep pockets, from nooks and crannies, behind people's ears and so on. This spell lasts for 6 hours. However, if the user fails in casting the spell, they immediately suffer a miscast. If they miscast while failing to cast the spell, the miscast is worse as it compounds on it.
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As I've mentioned before it's not clear that the Hedgewise spellbook is all connected to Halétha specifically, but now that we know of Her connection to wealth it seems a bit more likely.

Now, the big thing. Kalita doesn't really fit Halétha very well, does He? Mathilde offers one possible mechanism, traders moving through Ostland, but I have a different idea. When I was writing my post on The Lady there was originally a section titled The Elf Factor which was eventually cut (for a number of reasons, the main one being that the post was already interminably long) and which got into the idea that The Lady is Lileath, the only remnant of it in the published post being a single line of invisitext. I might post it at some point, but today I want to speak of Ladrielle. A while ago a post by Codex made me think of Ladrielle as a possible candidate for Ranald's daugther, and I've been thinking about it more seriously ever since I realized that The Lady is a decent candidate for Halétha's sister.

Ladrielle is the Goddess of hidden and lost things, and protector of travellers in the wilderness. The connection to Halétha is fairly straightforward. Hidden and lost things seems to fit with her connection to shadows and stealth, and protection of travellers in the wilderness is reasonable for a protector Goddess of a forest. Ladrielle has a connection to mists, which doesn't seem to fit Halétha, but on the other hand:
mathymancer said:
One last question about Haleth (kind of): is "Lady of the X", like in Haleth's title of Lady of the Hunt, a common title for Goddesses? Are there other Goddesses who use it?
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Boney said:
Not really. Closest it gets is that Shallya is sometimes known as the Lady in White, and Goddesses in general are sometimes entreated as 'Lady Verena' or whoever. The only other time Mathilde has encountered something similar is Ladrielle, whose title is translated as either 'Lady of Mists' or 'Lady of the Mists'.
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So I think it is actually quite plausible that Ladrielle is Halétha, and have been thinking so even before this update. But now we know that Halétha has an aspect of travel, and not just that, Aksel said "if I found myself lost in the Western Oblast", so he thinks of Kalita specifically in the context of a traveller lost in the wilderness - exactly Ladrielle's profile!

Now, Mathilde assumes that Katila came from Ostland traders seeking protection from the Forest, but there is a section of the Forest of Shadows that is much closer to Kislev in Ostermark. Ostermark, where the Ostermark Hedgewise are located, Hedgewise who we have very good reason to suspect worship Ranald's daughter. Could it be that Katila originated from the Ostermark Hedgewise? I suspect that the Ostermark Hedgewise might worship Ladrielle, or perhaps it is more accurate to say that they worship Halétha while recoginizing that She is Ladrielle or that Ladrielle is an aspect of her. Ladrielle is described as hiding her face behind a veil, so perhaps it makes sense that Her worshippers are secretive about Her worship, and when Mathilde was fighting Drycha in the Forest of Shadows she had a very curious thought:
Boney said:
In any case, you're not just preventing proper scouting but also bleeding the enemy of scouts they can't replace, as Loren Arhain is no friend to Athel Loren.

You're just starting to wonder where that thought came from when the horns begin to blow.
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I speculated at the time that Halétha was whispering in Mathilde's ear, and I wasn't the only one, but one thing that was puzzling to me is that the thought used the Eltharin name for the Forest of Shadows. Well, perhaps in that section of the Forest Halétha is known to be Ladrielle, and perhaps that is why she is using Eltharin? Either because Halétha "really is" an elf Goddess, or because in that particular part of the world She is thought of as such and so She acts accordingly. Either way, I think that we now have very good reason to believe that Ladrielle is Halétha. This has some implications in our dealings with the Eonir, as Ladrielle is venerated by House Fanpatar.
 
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Boney said:
I suppose it's possible to interpret that as 'if they fail an Intelligence Test then they lose every memory they have of you', but it really doesn't seem like that's the intended meaning to me.
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That's definitely not the intended meaning, I agree.

Boney said:
Characters who've met you
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Individual encounters could, however, be it. A grocer forgetting who he sold an apple to, a dancer forgetting who her partner was, despite remembering selling an apple and dancing with someone.

At least that was my interpretation when I read the description. It's rather vague on when the intelligence check triggers and if it can be retried.

Or I guess the author of RoS could have been thinking that just forgetting face is that big of an obstacle for recognition.
 
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Boney said:
"It's more than that. Here, catch this." You lightly toss an olive in his direction, and he catches it obligingly. "How long have you practiced catching olives?"

"Not at all, of course. I take your meaning, but for that to be true..." He frowns, and looks back to your shadow. "Well, it clearly is true, isn't it? It is literally a part of you, now. Instead of learning it in the abstract, you have made it a part of your being, and you control and understand it as such. You don't have to learn fundamental Sevirrics in the same way a child with a ball doesn't need to learn ballistics. This is an underpinning of your Orders?"
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I don't understand the analogy with the olive, what does Mathilde means by that?

Boney said:
Tindomiel and Vaire of the Hekartian school, and Echthelion and Thyriolan of the Hoethian school
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Hoeth is the god of knowledge and Hekarti of casting itself, I wonder how that translates in practice. Maybe the Hekartian learn more by practicing than studying theory?

Boney said:
"What's the difference between a Mage and a politician?" You give him a questioning look. "Once tries to wrestle poorly-understood forces into submission for personal gain despite the fact that it could all blow up in his face and ruin the lives of everyone around him, and the other casts spells."
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Damn, now I can't stop myself from liking him:V
 
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