According to Taalites, yes.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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According to Taalites, yes.
Right, I forgot about the two distinct Haleths because I kind of assume they are probably the same Goddess. One last question about Haleth (kind of): is "Lady of the X", like in Haleth's title of Lady of the Hunt, a common title for Goddesses? Are there other Goddesses who use it?
- Pronouns
- They
Putting symbols to a god of magic on important landmarks within an Empire that's prejudiced against magic in general will still cause tension and issues. Mathilde herself thinks it might become problematic if the project reaches the point where it will come up.
I just don't understand this seemingly blase attitude the thread has taken towards dedication to Hekarti in the Empire. I mean honestly, the leading plan is called "how many people can read elf" which evidently ignores the fact that it's part of the job of Witch Hunters to recognize them.
The main struggle with Waystones has been the political factors and we seem to be stumbling into a potential blunder that can be easily avoided by just choosing to exercise some Discretion.
The bad track record was in reference to Mathilde's talk with Asarnil during the Dum Expedition. He mentions that humans have trouble worshipping Elven Gods iirc, but the only example that comes to mind is Khaine.
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Whats the most popular plan that keeps the waystones secular? Ice witches and Runesmiths are both priests, we don't know where our Jade stands on the earth mother issue, and the hedgewise are likewise a religious organization. Allowing sole dedication to one god seems to me like it would piss off all of these to varying degrees.
Not really. Closest it gets is that Shallya is sometimes known as the Lady in White, and Goddesses in general are sometimes entreated as 'Lady Verena' or whoever. The only other time Mathilde has encountered something similar is Ladrielle, whose title is translated as either 'Lady of Mists' or 'Lady of the Mists'.
[X] Plan: Just the Heir
[x] [HEDGEWISE] Secretly
[x] [HEDGEWISE] Secretly
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The two leading plans both involve dedication/shrines to Hekarti. The difference is one allows Tindomiel to spread their influence in the Empire which can potentially get ugly, while the runner-up limits their reach to Laurelorn.
The next best alternative is "Plan Discretion is the Watchword" which at least tries to substitute Hekarti with a more palatable God from the Old World Pantheon.
But ultimately most plans involve some degree of religion bleeding into the project.
Yes, well, the fact that The Lady of the Lake and The Lady of the Hunt (which is Haleth, which is likely Ranald's daughter) have similar titles which are relatively unique is...interesting. Though we haven't yet confirmed that Haleth is Halétha.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Given that the Cults of Taal and Rhya are so entwined I didn't expect them to disagree on this, at least officially/outwardly.
I expect that the majority of Witch Hunters that are versed in the symbols of the rarer Elven gods will also know that (typical) Waystones are magical and important both. A group of magic Elves erecting new Waystones to protect the Empire from magic can be expected to dedicate them to their deity of magic. Anyone who takes issue with that due to the goddess being a goddess of magic specifically would also take issue with all those magic Elves setting up magic stones in the Empire.
Morai-Heg is also a Cytharai and might be Morr. Though she is the least Cytharai, with many myths presenting her as a schemer in between who is alternatively playing and keeping ties with both sides of the Cadai/Cytharai divide and fully aligning with neither. And Morr is very heavily modified in his myth compared to Morai-Heg. More so than Manann/Mathlann.
That's a point I can agree on. But Ice Witches only care about Kislev, which the winning plan doesn't cover. Same for Runesmiths and the Karaz Ankor. The Hedgewise are out of luck, but that's no news to them. If they gain any official recognition at all that's already a massive win for them. And we do know that Tochter is an Earth Mother believer, but a majority of the existing Waystones could be considered dedicated to the Earth Mother according to that faction of Druids and the other half of her Order currently would not want her to officially dedicate the rest.
Still, it's an issue. It will definitely make it harder to recruit Hoethians and Taalites later on.
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Mannan was also much more similar to Mathlann before the high elves persuaded the Cult of Mannan to change their doctrine to take out the nastier bits, and the original version of Mannan was relabelled Stromfels and worship of him prohibited.
They're interconnected and cooperate with each other, but they're still two distinct Cults to two distinct Gods with separate holy places, power structures, and sects.
My personal theory is that humans split Mathlann into the even more malicious Stromfells (who stands out among outlawed gods by being the main god of a human polity) and the slightly less severe Manann. I don't know how a similar split might go with Hekarti.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
What polity worships Stromfells?
I imagine Hekarti could be split into a true goddess of dark magic (Dhar, necromancy and such) and a goddess of normal magic (Colours, Hedge, High, etc). Both would be fickle, but the normal one wouldn't be actively malicious and corrupting.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
I stumbled upon this line while digging through the thread for quotes on Taal being a general river god (beyond just the Talabec).
May I ask what Cython's take on the gods of Kislev was? I had this theory on them being known Ellinilli, but it wasn't quite the most founded theory.
P.S.: In September 2020 you again mentioned Rhya and Manann as fighting over river deity absorption. Still haven't found where my memory of it being Taal instead of Rhya comes from
Are you sure that it was the High Elves that persuaded the Humans to conveniently cut an Ellinilli in twain? Doesn't seem like something they would do.
"Hey primitives. I see you like one of our more angry gods. Please don't worship him as we do (even though we are definitely more correct and knowledgeable than you in this and every other aspect) and instead invent a new deity in order to push all the negative character traits our god has into this new made up entity. No, of course we won't do the same."
Seems off.
Some pirate enclaves? I think DOOMPOTATO meant Sartosa, but to my knowledge Stromfels doesn't dominate there and instead competes with Manann and Ranald. Not sure though.
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pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
No idea honestly. Sartossa possibly qualifies, its strong enough to be a regional power, but that would be it, and even they don't worship Stromfels that much. The entire place is anarchy, there is no main god for them.
Same with Norscans quite frankly.
- Location
- Poland
For all we know, couldn't plenty of the already existing waystones have similar dedications to Hekarti or Hoeth we were simply unable to spot due to limited insight into elven deities?
For the matter, I can't imagine there's no ruins dedicated to one elven deity or another within the Empire already, and those have hardly caused the witch hunters to go torch crazy.
For the matter, I can't imagine there's no ruins dedicated to one elven deity or another within the Empire already, and those have hardly caused the witch hunters to go torch crazy.
Cython spitballed Ellinilli, rogue Daemons, or Wind worship (Azyr for Tor, Aqshy for Dazh, Ghur for Ursun, Shyish for the Widow), but also shrugged and said that they could just be gods from east of the World's Edge Mountains, of which they know pretty much nothing.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Worshipping a god of storms and wrecks when your livelihood depends on sailing looks like a bad idea. Wouldn't Manaan be more appropriate? Even if you go on the waves to raid others, you still need not to sink.
- Location
- Earth
Stromfels's worshippers seem to believe that they see the ocean for the truly brutal thing it is, and some of them think that Stromfels is just a truer, unsugarcoated version of Manann.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Much like that one elven god whose name i have forgotten, i think the idea is that you appease Stromfels so that he visits disaster upon other. Which is great if you are a pirate, because a lot of what pirate does is what Stromfels would consider a valid sacrifice.
Much like Mathilde, why not get some godly favour on top of already doing what you would do anyway.
What i wonder about is if Aranessa is already alive. Now that would be something for our study into godly children.
Cython thinks it's possible for daemons to become as disconnected from Chaos as the gods of Kislev are? That's interesting, and definitely not something that Mathilde would want to say in the hearing of our Ice Maiden.
Cython has no way of judging how disconnected from Chaos the gods of Kislev may or may not be.
- Location
- Earth
That's a bit murky. Normally gods have children with other gods, who themselves are also gods (ie Ranald and Shallya having Halétha and her sister). Then we have Myrmidia who, if the legends are correct about, was once incarnated and acted as a mortal. But if an incarnated god conceives physical children with a mortal while on the physical plane, how would that child be affected by one of their parents' divinity? Would they just be a regular mortal with a particularly strong affinity for channeling divine power?
...Huh, Cython must be making another comment about Ulgu attraction just about now.
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