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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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consequences said:
[x] Imperial Dispensation

Luitpold being an old man makes me even more inclined to want an Imperial permission in our pocket, lest the next Emperor run afoul of a Tzeentchian plot to give the Witch Hunters just enough fuel for the pyre.
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What makes you think Luitpold is old? He was descirbed as "young and healthy" by Van Hal back in '75 and it's only been 13 years since then. I'd say he's probably in his fifties. He could stick around for another fifty years, and I wouldn't start expecting him to die from natural causes for another decade or so yet.

Also, the next Emperor could undo Luitpold's decree so if that's your worry, it doesn't really matter who Mathilde goes to.

Angelform said:
And yet, the Winds continue to flow south past Kislev. There is no noticable difference between the strength of magic south of Kislev and the strength south-east/west of Kislev. Nor is Kislev suffering from a continual and unchecked build-up of magic, which would eventually cause demons to spontaneously manifest.
Worth looking into.
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She did say the Ice Witches use the Waystones to create Ice Magic, which they then presumably use to cast with, which I think removes it from the world? Worth checking, but not earthshattering.

Angelform said:
Not really a threat they can use. Blocking the Waystone is not an immediate problem. It would take years for significant deleterious effects to manifest. By which time the Empire would have mustered their forces and conquered the place, with Ulthuan's full support. The Asur care far more about the Network than about a merchant alliance.
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I'd guess one of the terms of Ulthuan's alliance with Marienburg was "don't touch the Waystone or we'll burn your city to the bedrock".
 
[x] Imperial Dispensation

I've been convinced that Alric isn't a threat to the project. However, the more people know, the more stuff will leak. Ulthuan is the biggest threat to the project so far. If they learn about the project from an ally in the college, it'll likely cause a political shitstorm. At the very least, I imagine they would demand the Empire pull out of the project. Ulthuan is very touchy about humans messing with the stones.

Better to restrict the number of people in the know. Control the flow of information.
 
[X] Imperial Dispensation
-[X] Afterwards have a private talk with Dragomas on why when over his head.

I feel going over Dragomas head is needed but letting him know that we did it to prevent trouble with the other powers inside the collages would probably smooth over any ruffled feathers.
 
Man, that was awesome. My favorite part was just how often Mathilde kept getting "thoughtful looks". Or when Hatalath was like "you suspect" and she just says "no, I definitely know, I went and looked."

I'm pretty sure Mathilde has already surpassed the expectations of several people in her contributions, both personal knowledge and ability-wise. Which is hilarious because the Greys were supposed to have basically nothing. Turns out our empty hand was actually a two-pair or something.
 
[X] College Dispensation

Imperial Dispensation seems to be strictly superior if all goes well. If the Emperor agrees to give us dispensation without issue and if Dragomas doesn't mind and if the fact that "the Emperor just gave some wizards some sort of premission to study dark magic and also his son is a wizard what a concidence" doesn't become known and isn't used against him, then we keep the number people that are told of this issue smaller and that's good. But how big of a benefit is that?

I'm not even sure this would keep the matter secret from the Magister Patriarchs for all that long. Any of the wizards involved in the project could tell their Patriarchs at any point. How confident are we that Elrisse won't tell Alric? That Tochter won't tell Paranoth? We can probably trust our golden boys to keep this from Feldmann if we really ask them to but Feldmann's order is knee-deep in a study of Dhar technology that has far less justification than the Waystone Project, of all the Patriarchs he might be the least likely to make a fuss so who cares if he knows. So for Imperial Dispensation to be worth anything, we have to gather our wizards and tell them to keep this from thier superiors. I don't think the concerns about Alric fucking us over are completely unfounded, but I would also be worried about what Elrisse and Tochter think of us if we make this sort of request. Elrisse already seems kind of suspicious of us, I don't think this will help.
 
Tobtorp said:
The elves had no clue what kind of waystones it was only that it got activated and that later they found us we did it.
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They do have a clue as to what kind it was, they know it was in a dwarf Karak, now you could work off the notion that Mathilde the human knew out of her own head how to work a waystone built in a dwarf hold, but that seems less likely then there being dwarfs involved.

This is all superfluous to the fact that without us half the project walks. Somehow I do not think the Queen is going to pick Alric over us because 'most of the Empire thinks he is a good guy'.
 
mathymancer said:
[X] College Dispensation

Imperial Dispensation seems to be strictly superior if all goes well. If the Emperor agrees to give us dispensation without issue and if Dragomas doesn't mind and if the fact that "the Emperor just gave some wizards some sort of premission to study dark magic and also his son is a wizard what a concidence" doesn't become known and isn't used against him, then we keep the number people that are told of this issue smaller and that's good. But how big of a benefit is that?

I'm not even sure this would keep the matter secret from the Magister Patriarchs for all that long. Any of the wizards involved in the project could tell their Patriarchs at any point. How confident are we that Elrisse won't tell Alric? That Tochter won't tell Paranoth? We can probably trust our golden boys to keep this from Feldmann if we really ask them to but Feldmann's order is knee-deep in a study of Dhar technology that has far less justification then the Waystone Project, of all the Patriarchs he might be the least likely make a fuss so who cares if he knows. So for Imperial Dispensation to be worth anything, we have to gather our wizards and tell them to keep this from thier superiors. I don't think the concerns about Alric fucking us over are completely unfounded, but I would also be worried about what Elrisse and Tochter think of us if we make this sort of request. Elrisse already seems kind of suspicious of us, I don't think this will help.
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Boney did say that if we get it from the emperor then the wizards would mostly conclude that it's secret and they don't need to tell anyone.
 
[X] College Dispensation

While I'm less concerned about the Imperial Dispensation than I initially was now that Boney has clarified the situation, I still think that we don't need to lean on our Heidi connection here, and may be better off saving a direct Imperial favor for a rainier day.
 
DragonParadox said:
They do have a clue as to what kind it was, they know it was in a dwarf Karak, now you could work off the notion that Mathilde the human knew out of her own head how to work a waystone built in a dwarf hold, but that seems less likely then there being dwarfs involved.

This is all superfluous to the fact that without us half the project walks. Somehow I do not think the Queen is going to pick Alric over us because 'most of the Empire thinks he is a good guy'.
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No but going " oh no Mathilde, don't leave and blackmail us more. Will go over great with the elves. " Their main aim is still not getting further attacked by Nordland. Our project is nice but no one expects super much from it in a short amount of time. So if Alaric can promise some political help, which he is much better at then others, then they might be tempted.
 
Tobtorp said:
No but going " oh no Mathilde, don't leave and blackmail us more. Will go over great with the elves. " Their main aim is still not getting further attacked by Nordland. Our project is nice but no one expects super much from it in a short amount of time. So if Alaric can promise some political help, which he is much better at then others, then they might be tempted.
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Do you have any indication that Alric would be able to secure their borders better than us? At this point all the paranoia is making me want to vote College on general principles.
 
At least the discussions quickly trimmed the vote to two choices.

[x] Imperial Dispensation

I think this is the best time to use our connections. This is a project that is quite literally Empire-level stuff, and thus the benefits (and dangers) of this information needs the eyes of the Emperor first. Or at least that is a perfectly valid way to sell this move to the majority of people.

The College vote is still a good choice to me though. Alric really shouldn't have that much means to make trouble for us anymore, especially if we ensure we don't interact with Empire stuff for a while after this thing gets rolling.
 
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Jyn Ryvia said:
So this is the full team for the start of the project

Is Sarcvoi a male or female name?
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Elven names are unisex.

Boney said:
came to the Earth Mother and tell Her
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I think it's 'to tell'.

Boney said:
save for a brief detour into a debate about the relationship between stone and Hysh.
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For those interested, the only information I've ever been able to find on the subject comes from WFRP 1e: Realms of Sorcery, page 47:
Light magic is very diffuse. It is an energy that is easily absorbed into solid objects but which retains all its magical potential; for example, Light magic that soaks into the ground causes earthquakes.
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Whether that works past 1e or in DL is anyone's guess.

Boney said:
"The capstone, too, is likely of interest here, as it seems to be made of the same material the Runes are inlaid in. Historically there's been a fair bit of study into this by human scholars, but most of that study was into attempts to extract gold from it." You exchange a rueful smile with Cadaeth. "The only known source of it is, of course, to extract it from a Waystone, so possession of it has been a capital offence since the time of Sigmar." You give a glance to Aksel, who nods. "Apart from the common epithet of 'Waystone Gold', it is also known by a great many names in different places and languages, including Hepatizon in the Empire, Aurichalcum in Tilea, Kavzarian Bronze in Estalia, Shakudo in Nippon, Panchaloha in Ind, and Hesmenkem in Nehekhara." You give a look to Elrisse at that last one.
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Dwarves have oath gold too, right?

Boney said:
he doesn't seem like once overly
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'one'.
 
DragonParadox said:
Do you have any indication that Alric would be able to secure their borders better than us? At this point all the paranoia is making me want to vote College on general principles.
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Because most of what we heard from Alaric is that he's not well liked in the colleges but that in the normal political circles he is very much at home. Now if he goes over to Nordland and middenland and even just supports the eonir openly then that's probably worth quite a bit to people he helped before.
Alaric is dangerous if he puts his mind to it. He would already have a good deed under his belt if we didn't directly interfere.

And us rejecting him directly is ammo he can use. And I really don't think the eonir will want to step between two imperial wizards doing politics ...
 
[ ] College Dispensation
[ ] Imperial Dispensation

My preferences. I really don't think its necessary to hide this. Might be good for more wizards to know about the potential means for abuse here, even if it complicates our lives.
 
Was Ulthuan always floating? ..I assume the elves use the magic to keep their island afloat.
(you can never unsee the vortex as a giant propeller)

Most important part of the update is that the dwarves use Waystones to brew beer, craftdwarfship of the highest order! *slams down beerstein

[X] College Dispensation

I think it is entirely reasonable to assume that studying Waystones involves Dhar, so I see no reason to be wierdly shifty about it.
(..we just have to keep it real downlow on how fundamental the connection is)
 
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...I guess it's a good thing that we graciously allowed House Tindomiel to make the Waystones of the Empire if the project ever reaches that point. If constructing a Waystone requires mucking around with Dhar then we couldn't have used human enchanters anyway.
 
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