I think you may be overthinking this, most in the empire do not even know the source of elf goods is available and right now it is not, we would have to leverage it and if we do that no one has a leg to stand on asking us why we took it. We are a company, that was a chance of profit, in a way that did not get in the way of any of our oaths and duties ergo we took it.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I think you may be overthinking this, most in the empire do not even know the source of elf goods is available and right now it is not, we would have to leverage it and if we do that no one has a leg to stand on asking us why we took it. We are a company, that was a chance of profit, in a way that did not get in the way of any of our oaths and duties ergo we took it.
- Location
- Netherlands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't understand what you're talking about. Like I said, I don't have much of a grasp on Imperial politics, and this conversation is flying entirely over my head.
...So I'm not overthinking anything, I am actively abstaining from thinking due to my ignorance. xD
MiracleGrow
Miracles for only $19.99 [They/Them]
- Location
- DOOR STUCK DOOR STUCK PLEASE I BEG U
I tend to describe myself as bisexual irl, pansexual online as it can be more broad, and omnisexual whenever I wanna feel extremely powerful.The etymology of a word is less important to its meaning than how people use it though. The idea that bisexual excludes NB attraction is one I've only ever seen suggested by people who aren't themselves bisexual and is always rejected.
Impersonal, you say. Hm. Well, when --
-- yeah, that.
When Eike graduates, it's possible that one potential path her life takes will be "part student of Mathilde, part director of the EIC" which means that the EIC will have a direct and personal connection to us; not just one of our old comrades from Stirland, but also our apprentice Eike.
- Location
- Czech Republic
Speaking about EIC, do we know what benefits would these actions provide?
[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace.
[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in your fief.
It sounds to me like something we should have done first, but maybe I'm just overestimating the importance of having headquarters.
[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace.
[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in your fief.
It sounds to me like something we should have done first, but maybe I'm just overestimating the importance of having headquarters.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His.
On the topic of the EIC, if we want to leverage the company as a potential diplomatic avenue, we damn well better be sure that they are completely in order. We don't want some dumbass thinking they could get rich quick sending the whole thing down in flames. This is probably the IRL accountant in me, but I would want to have auditors in place before even considering them in aiding diplomatic relationships.
- Location
- somewhere
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I will say as somebody who is pretty close to that particular field of study, there are some significant caveats to pretty much every non-human language claim thus far. Dogs can have REALLY big vocabularies, but we have not been able to prove empirically that they get how to combine meaning productively. There is an observation that researchers who teach animals human language, especially apes, sometimes overestimate and mischaracterize the capabilities of their student when compared to what we've been able to empirically support in a controlled environment.
Generally speaking, we have been able to find lots of animals that can do lots of things sort of like language, but very few who can do the particular features of language that make it so versatile to the degree that we can. The claim that orcas have language is not well supported in the literature. They certainly are doing something, which might very well be lingusitic in some capacity, but if they are we have not been able to parse out exactly how complex that system is, or if it approximates the more interesting features of human language. There is a lot more research that needs to be done before asserting that.
All that being said, the premise that human language is not a special category of animal communication is what the research generally suggests. A lot of stuff we do with language is represented in some way within animal populations, especially birds and primates, but also cetaceans. It's just we can do a lot more complex stuff with that stuff than has been seen elsewhere. One of the more compelling theories I've heard about why we have so much more of these communicative abilities than other species, and why it seems like we're so far ahead of them, is that some aspect of our evolutionary history was self-domesticating. Domestication tends to produce a lot of characteristic structural and behavioral changes within mammals, including higher social ability, lowered aggression, smaller brains, and a short snout. Well, prehistoric homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis tended to have larger braincases, pretty much every step towards homo sapiens has a smaller snout, and we're the only mammal with a flat face. Similarly, domestication accelerates the selection of traits significantly. There's a lot of other connective tissue involved research wise, but the theory is that we evolved some tendency to "get rid of" uncooperative or overaggressive community members early on, started unwittingly removing "feral" early humans from the genepool like we did for wolves, and ended up with the roght set of traits to make lingustic cultural exchange possible.
Sorry for the wall of text, hopefully somebody finds that interesting.
One of my favorite examples of this is Macau.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Somewhat out of curiosity, somewhat out of frustration with the "must do these actions BEFORE any other actions may be done" arguments eating everything we do with the EIC:
What specific things are you concerned about that you expect to come to the fore with elves, that would not or did not with dwarves?
- Location
- Wherever I feel like being
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Please let the conversation on that front die out.
MiracleGrow
Miracles for only $19.99 [They/Them]
- Location
- DOOR STUCK DOOR STUCK PLEASE I BEG U
I can say what I want, thanks.
So pay it tribute and give it homage, and perhaps it will spare you that you may live to serve it another day?
- Location
- Wherever I feel like being
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I was asking solely because it might have started the arguing up again. I don't care what anyone identifies as, I don't care how loudly they proclaim it. It's just not germane to the thread overall and arguments about it tend to turn into toxic, nasty, salt-filled rants and bring in trolls from outside the thread.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Miracle making a lighthearted comment about their sexuality has nothing to do with the arguing. If somebody was actually trying to revive the argument I'd understand, but that isn't it. Your response was uncalled for.
I like to see it as some sort of pavlovian training. Most children (according to my experiences/knowledge) dont like any of those flavours and avoid them. So they are mostly aquired tastes. Once Ive consumed something enough times telling myself its something good or making my body happy by providing sustenance without experiencing negative repercussions my perception of the taste changes. Which taste and why exactly, now thats dependent on culture, location and availability. Taking bitter as example, weve got bear (or alcohol in general) which is the major intoxicant for most of humanity, whose recreational consumption is at least somewhat expected in central europe. So here its a combination of a positivly connotated context, cultural expectations and fun. A more general and maybe better example is coffee. Same bitter taste, recreational use and a performance enhancing drug. With experience you associate the taste with different experiences changing the meaning.
I like the idea of focusing the EIC effort into one direction instead of haphazardly doing whatever takes our fancy every single turn. I dont think the Laurelorn trade is the best direction it could be taken. The EIC is situated in the southeastern Empire and southern Karaz Ankor, Laurelorn in the northwestern Empire. They have no local connections, the distances are large and mostly over land through forests or absurdly large through Marienburg or Barak Varr. I dont know what the EIC would want from them, but at a guess the biggest things would be luxury wares and magic stuff. Both things whose target market isnt in the usual regions the EIC operates in. The reverse holds true as well. To my knowledge the EIC doesnt trade in anything the elves need that cant be traded with someone closer. Id say let the Thorek set up some trade deals, maybe facilitate trade with Nordland (making it more unprofitable for them to let relations deteriorate), but keep the EIC out of it.
The three directions Id like to take with the EIC are Imperial Spynetwork, Southern Trade or Eastern Trade.
Imperial Spynetwork meaning to expand interprovince trade in the Empire with the end goal of at least a minor presence in each province and expanding the information gathering, processing and distribution capabilities of the EIC. Maybe even build a business on alway being the first to know of a new opportunity to make it pay for itself
Southern trade meaning to expand trade with the dwarves in general and Barak Varr and Karak Eight Peaks especially. Goals being to make more money through more volume of trade, getting more superior dwarven goods and possibly military equipment into the empire (and maybe providing an incentive to ramp up production or getting access to knowhow like the repeater factory). Using trade and money to support the positions of Barak Varr, Karak Eight Peaks and the new expansion settlement they are trying to set up. Being even more in position to use the opportunities provided by the canas that are being set up
Eastern Trade would be the most risky, but potentially most profitable and/or interesting. As I see it the EIC is in a premier position to cut out a lot of middleman for caravans trying to reach Ind or Cathay, staged from Karak Eight Peaks and maybe Mount Silverspear once its retaken. Would need a little bit of preparation and maybe some financial and/or logistical support for the planned reclamation to generate goodwill in Karaz a Karak, would be risky, but could generate a lot of profit, information and the possibility to access rarer goods that normal caravans wouldnt consider (BOOKS!
)
- Location
- Netherlands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
One of the reasons I like elf diplo for EIC is because I feel like I need it to be more intertwined with other stories or characters I already care about before I can get really invested in the EIC.
Elf diplo is a big Thing right now, and I feel like having the EIC involved with that would make me care about the EIC more.
I see your point...
...But I also see this one. (the frustration with the seemingly endless prep actions on the EIC)
I don't know yet if I'd vote for elf diplo EIC next turn, or for auditors first. I'll have to think about that... unless someone comes up with something to do with the EIC that I like better, I suppose.
Elf diplo is a big Thing right now, and I feel like having the EIC involved with that would make me care about the EIC more.
I see your point...
...But I also see this one. (the frustration with the seemingly endless prep actions on the EIC)
I don't know yet if I'd vote for elf diplo EIC next turn, or for auditors first. I'll have to think about that... unless someone comes up with something to do with the EIC that I like better, I suppose.
I like to see it as some sort of pavlovian training. Most children (according to my experiences/knowledge) dont like any of those flavours and avoid them. So they are mostly aquired tastes. Once Ive consumed something enough times telling myself its something good or making my body happy by providing sustenance without experiencing negative repercussions my perception of the taste changes. Which taste and why exactly, now thats dependent on culture, location and availability. Taking bitter as example, weve got bear (or alcohol in general) which is the major intoxicant for most of humanity, whose recreational consumption is at least somewhat expected in central europe. So here its a combination of a positivly connotated context, cultural expectations and fun. A more general and maybe better example is coffee. Same bitter taste, recreational use and a performance enhancing drug. With experience you associate the taste with different experiences changing the meaning.
I like the idea of focusing the EIC effort into one direction instead of haphazardly doing whatever takes our fancy every single turn. I dont think the Laurelorn trade is the best direction it could be taken. The EIC is situated in the southeastern Empire and southern Karaz Ankor, Laurelorn in the northwestern Empire. They have no local connections, the distances are large and mostly over land through forests or absurdly large through Marienburg or Barak Varr. I dont know what the EIC would want from them, but at a guess the biggest things would be luxury wares and magic stuff. Both things whose target market isnt in the usual regions the EIC operates in. The reverse holds true as well. To my knowledge the EIC doesnt trade in anything the elves need that cant be traded with someone closer. Id say let the Thorek set up some trade deals, maybe facilitate trade with Nordland (making it more unprofitable for them to let relations deteriorate), but keep the EIC out of it.
The three directions Id like to take with the EIC are Imperial Spynetwork, Southern Trade or Eastern Trade.
Imperial Spynetwork meaning to expand interprovince trade in the Empire with the end goal of at least a minor presence in each province and expanding the information gathering, processing and distribution capabilities of the EIC. Maybe even build a business on alway being the first to know of a new opportunity to make it pay for itself
Southern trade meaning to expand trade with the dwarves in general and Barak Varr and Karak Eight Peaks especially. Goals being to make more money through more volume of trade, getting more superior dwarven goods and possibly military equipment into the empire (and maybe providing an incentive to ramp up production or getting access to knowhow like the repeater factory). Using trade and money to support the positions of Barak Varr, Karak Eight Peaks and the new expansion settlement they are trying to set up. Being even more in position to use the opportunities provided by the canas that are being set up
Eastern Trade would be the most risky, but potentially most profitable and/or interesting. As I see it the EIC is in a premier position to cut out a lot of middleman for caravans trying to reach Ind or Cathay, staged from Karak Eight Peaks and maybe Mount Silverspear once its retaken. Would need a little bit of preparation and maybe some financial and/or logistical support for the planned reclamation to generate goodwill in Karaz a Karak, would be risky, but could generate a lot of profit, information and the possibility to access rarer goods that normal caravans wouldnt consider (BOOKS!
I do not think Imperial spywork is the way to go for a simple reason. We do not have that much to do with the Empire and when we do, when we need information off this particular province it is usually because something really bad is happening, like a cult or Skaven. In that case we do not need vague information three weeks later of the sort a merchant company would get. We would need to know now and in that case it is best to go to the authorities as indeed we have a habit of doing.
That is not to say there is no room for a Grey Wizard doing something like that, but not the one who lives in magical elf land and comes out mostly for emergencies.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
I'd note that the elves are in Laurelorn, Thorek is in Karak Azul, and neither has any sort of transit/transport network to ship goods from one point to another.
So they are going to buy capacity from imperial merchants.
And given the only imperial merchants with strong ties to Karak Azul and K8P are EIC, I feel like this isn't a question of IF we will be involved in those trade deals, but more of a question of how much we pay attention to it.
At this point, since the EIC is about 15 years old, I wonder if there are several executives who have spies and informants set up throughout the empire to keep an eye on Mathilde. Not for any particularly nefarious reason, but just because wherever she goes the EIC is sure to have an easy in with the people she dealt with
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Okay, Mathilde is clearly just fishing for a lecture/rant from her girlfriend here, because she enjoys listening to her speak and explain stuff. I know she knows that a forest isn't just "a forest by this point. Hell, I know Panoramia knows that as well.
Lol. I should just have read on. But blind reactions are fun too.
TIL the word "commensalism".
Oooh. Of course our lovely, nerdy Panpan would look at the actual practical implications of Elven "natural" biomancy.
Good old comparative mythology. How I wish we'd gone even deeper down this path.
That said, I'm a bit confused here. Either you're saying that some people believe that Ulric or Taal considers the Elves his chosen ones or I don't understand what you mean by "contrast".
Whoops.
Cute. I wish I could imagine their chattered litanies even more vividly than I already do.
Another new word. Frond.
So many new words today. I assume this adjective means "done through interoception/interoceptors"? Google isn't quite as helpful as usual.
Oh boy. Stay safe.
the thing that irks me about the EIC is that as much as we use it as a spy network, its exactly one spy and merchants reporting any activity that goes around (which is not bad for a network, but when we directly want to know the situation for something we either send the hochländer or hope the merchants heard anything.). i think that if we give the hochländer a proper headquarter he could recruit more direct agents and give us more spy options that way.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
The contrast is that Elf mythology has the Elves being custom-made as guardians of Ulthuan by their gods, whereas Human mythology has them already existing and specific tribes becoming the chosen people of one god or another.
We have a "use agents to infiltrate X" action that we've used twice so far. If folks have specific places we want to investigate, we can do that. The reason we used the Hochlander specifically this past turn is because we wanted intel on somewhere the EIC mostly isn't.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
I'm also in favor of keeping in mind that this "spy network" is going to be much closer to a series of penpals than the CIA. This world does not have large bureaucracies. The whole colleges of magic are smaller than some highschools IRL.
So if we want to have a whole bunch of agents, they are either going to be cross-trained merchants, our they aren't going to be covering their own costs and we will have to pay out of pocket for each one.
There's just not enough people involved to do it any other way.
So if we want to have a whole bunch of agents, they are either going to be cross-trained merchants, our they aren't going to be covering their own costs and we will have to pay out of pocket for each one.
There's just not enough people involved to do it any other way.
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- Location
- Moscow
Sorry, I don't understand. 1) Science assumes that the world beyond individual perception objectively exists and is not a dream of a butterfly and 2) once you have any half-reasonable definition of "mind" it is not hard to prove its existence in other humans.