The English words for a shockingly large number of places came from grabbing a random local and asking them what something was, and then writing down the answer when they bemusedly respond "uh, it's a lake/mountain/desert/hill/river".
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
The English words for a shockingly large number of places came from grabbing a random local and asking them what something was, and then writing down the answer when they bemusedly respond "uh, it's a lake/mountain/desert/hill/river".
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Well. I was not expecting to wake up this morning and read several pages dissecting the nature of emotions, minds, color, language, and other what have you. This quest, man.
FlyingScanian
Tea Addict
- Location
- Land of Eternal Night
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There is also, I think, three separate "River River" in Britain, named so when the romans asked the local celts what "that" was, and got the answer "Avon" (River in the celtic dialect). This is mostly a case of people being stupid in foreign languages.
If you want examples of bad naming, I invite you to consider, for example, the Rocky Mountains and the Great Plains.
- Location
- Denial
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This is incredibly common. Briton has a ton of rivers called River Avon. Avon being celtic for river. Then there's Torpenhow Hill, which translates from three other languages into HillHillHill Hill
Most place names mean either "place of the geographical feature" or "place of the people who live there".
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I woke up, checked my email, saw seven email alerts from Boney, and was like "holy shit there must be some insanely contentious vote that went up overnight, I'd better check it out"
turns out we're just a bunch of argumentative nerds and that doesn't stop being true just because there isn't a vote
imagine that
- Location
- Leeds
Ah yes, Canada.
- Location
- Russia
I mean, that's where "bi" in "bisexual" comes from? As in "two". Which is the same place "bi" in "binary" comes from. You may argue that "bisexual" evolved to mean "pansexual", but etymologically they are certainly different.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
I mean, most of it doesn't even seem to be arguments, just various comments expanding on certain phenomena… Huh, I wonder if this is how the Foundation action is going to turn out.
Also, everyone's missing the most obvious sign of simple naming: Earth.
- Location
- Utrecht
Ulgu Generation for Mathilde.
So, I'd had an idea I was musing on for a while, and since there was a recent update (I skip forward to updates because I can't keep up with the whole thread anymore) now seems a decent time to bring up the idea.
And that idea is; what do people think about trying to bring in House Miriel -- the crafter guys -- into the Waystone project?
Reasons for; they're awesome crafters. Craftsmanship can wind up being very useful to the Waystone Project, or very attractive to the Dwarfs and Humans. Which means this can be a way to attract them to trading with Dwarfs and Humans, by giving them a shared project and endeavor that involves man, elf, and dwarf.
Second; we've spent 2000 gold on buying something from them, outfitting the workshop of the waystone project headquarters, which means that much like the Barak Varr book-traders, they probably are at least somewhat piqued monetarily by that.
Thirdly; they're isolationist-ish-y, but willing to go with what the majority of Elves want and where the wind blows, which means that bringing them on-side by showing them the possible lucrative side of trade and cooperation with man and dwarf could be useful. i.e. Instead of them being lukewarm or skeptical of the idea of cooperation because of fears of being upstaged by Ulthuan craftsmen trading things, we draw them into more protected trade deals and relationships, thus assuaging their fears.
Also, Thorek has also tried to make inroads to trading with the Elves, so this could be another interesting way to do it. Maybe Mathilde and Thorek could coordinate on trying to bring them in?
We could also try to tempt them by reminding him of what he said about how "The great hunter gets a canto, the bowyer but a stanza, and the fletcher not a line" -- something to which Mathilde replied with "Ah, but elf artisan is legendary" to flatter him -- and try to tempt him with the possibility of prestige and legend by having his house's achievement be associated with the Waystone Project achievement.
That, for once, the fletcher will get a line in the history books.
What do people think? Eh?
And that idea is; what do people think about trying to bring in House Miriel -- the crafter guys -- into the Waystone project?
Reasons for; they're awesome crafters. Craftsmanship can wind up being very useful to the Waystone Project, or very attractive to the Dwarfs and Humans. Which means this can be a way to attract them to trading with Dwarfs and Humans, by giving them a shared project and endeavor that involves man, elf, and dwarf.
Second; we've spent 2000 gold on buying something from them, outfitting the workshop of the waystone project headquarters, which means that much like the Barak Varr book-traders, they probably are at least somewhat piqued monetarily by that.
Thirdly; they're isolationist-ish-y, but willing to go with what the majority of Elves want and where the wind blows, which means that bringing them on-side by showing them the possible lucrative side of trade and cooperation with man and dwarf could be useful. i.e. Instead of them being lukewarm or skeptical of the idea of cooperation because of fears of being upstaged by Ulthuan craftsmen trading things, we draw them into more protected trade deals and relationships, thus assuaging their fears.
Also, Thorek has also tried to make inroads to trading with the Elves, so this could be another interesting way to do it. Maybe Mathilde and Thorek could coordinate on trying to bring them in?
We could also try to tempt them by reminding him of what he said about how "The great hunter gets a canto, the bowyer but a stanza, and the fletcher not a line" -- something to which Mathilde replied with "Ah, but elf artisan is legendary" to flatter him -- and try to tempt him with the possibility of prestige and legend by having his house's achievement be associated with the Waystone Project achievement.
That, for once, the fletcher will get a line in the history books.
What do people think? Eh?
- Location
- Denial
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The etymology of a word is less important to its meaning than how people use it though. The idea that bisexual excludes NB attraction is one I've only ever seen suggested by people who aren't themselves bisexual and is always rejected.
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
Earth, Sun and Moon can all be excused since we have only one of them and it's pretty difficult to confuse them with something else.
It's not like you can say "Oh, you meant that sun, not the other sun, you should've been clearer".
Come to think of it, it's much weirder in fantasy when the people call their world by something that doesn't mean Earth in their language. Like, should be an immediate flag they know there are other worlds and they probably arrived from one a few thousand years ago.
- Location
- USA
I've seen this exchange more than once, actually, in a couple of (thankfully) untranslated light novels:
Native: "This world is this world. Why would it need a specific name?"
Isekai Protagonist: "But, what are the other planets called?"
Native: "What are planets?"
your an animal.
I think there would be a lot of value in their contribution, but I also think it would be mostly practical—I don't think they can contribute much to the theoretical understanding of waystones that we're trying to build, but when we get around to actually making them they'll be very useful.
As such, I'm happy to recruit them after the foundations action, rather than before.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
While i agree with the sentiment i think tearing it out of context in sweeping "etymology matters less" when we spent like 5 pages debating etymology to be somewhat off the road, so to speak. As in, its absolutely correct, but not when etymology has been half of the debates that made up the discourse for past several pages.The etymology of a word is less important to its meaning than how people use it though. The idea that bisexual excludes NB attraction is one I've only ever seen suggested by people who aren't themselves bisexual and is always rejected.
- Location
- Moscow
Okay then. Let's clear any past misunderstanding and start from square one?
The theory I was talking about is a part of a much larger hypothesis of linguistic relativity, which says that linguistic categories and usage influence thought and decisions.
In the context of the rainbow, it would mean that the words for colors influence how you perceive it. Not determine, mind - apparently the hard version of that hypothesis was quite thoroughly disproven - but influence. Whether you use three, five, six or seven words would have some effect on subjective perception of an objective phenomenon - like, for example, the number of colored strips you can see in a rainbow, even if you know that any number of strips is pure illusion.
Codex, sorry for accidental ping.
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I think that we need some kind of advance to show off before Miriel will seriously consider coming over to our side. Looking at it from teir PoV we have some strange folk, some interesting folk (mostly Thorek) but we have yet to actually do something and that I think will be the crux for a practical House. At the moment they are soft isolationists which means they have at least some political capital invested in the position. It is not like convincing someone who is neutral, we have to convince them that it will be worth the political losses they might face from a policy shift. Just doing business with us costs them nothing and indeed gains them 2K worth of Gold, not so any participation.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This is the Bisexual Manifesto from 1990:
"We are tired of being analyzed, defined and represented by people other than ourselves, or worse yet, not considered at all. We are frustrated by the imposed isolation and invisibility that comes from being told or expected to choose either a homosexual or heterosexual identity.
Monosexuality is a heterosexist dictate used to oppress homosexuals and to negate the validity of bisexuality.
Bisexuality is a whole, fluid identity. Do not assume that bisexuality is binary or duogamous in nature: that we have "two" sides or that we must be involved simultaneously with both genders to be fulfilled human beings. In fact, don't assume that there are only two genders. Do not mistake our fluidity for confusion, irresponsibility, or an inability to commit. Do not equate promiscuity, infidelity, or unsafe sexual behavior with bisexuality. Those are human traits that cross all sexual orientations. Nothing should be assumed about anyone's sexuality, including your own.
We are angered by those who refuse to accept our existence; our issues; our contributions; our alliances; our voice. It is time for the bisexual voice to be heard."
The Bisexual manifesto defines Bisexuality as "Attraction to two or more genders". No bisexual person that I've ever involved myself with excludes nonbinary people. Just because "Bi" means two doesn't mean we're only attracted to two genders.
"We are tired of being analyzed, defined and represented by people other than ourselves, or worse yet, not considered at all. We are frustrated by the imposed isolation and invisibility that comes from being told or expected to choose either a homosexual or heterosexual identity.
Monosexuality is a heterosexist dictate used to oppress homosexuals and to negate the validity of bisexuality.
Bisexuality is a whole, fluid identity. Do not assume that bisexuality is binary or duogamous in nature: that we have "two" sides or that we must be involved simultaneously with both genders to be fulfilled human beings. In fact, don't assume that there are only two genders. Do not mistake our fluidity for confusion, irresponsibility, or an inability to commit. Do not equate promiscuity, infidelity, or unsafe sexual behavior with bisexuality. Those are human traits that cross all sexual orientations. Nothing should be assumed about anyone's sexuality, including your own.
We are angered by those who refuse to accept our existence; our issues; our contributions; our alliances; our voice. It is time for the bisexual voice to be heard."
The Bisexual manifesto defines Bisexuality as "Attraction to two or more genders". No bisexual person that I've ever involved myself with excludes nonbinary people. Just because "Bi" means two doesn't mean we're only attracted to two genders.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Assuming it comes about that way. It's equally valid to assume that the world we live is called Earth, so the stuff we stand on is called earth. Either way it's not really a name in the same sense, because they would have been considered the same thing. It's closer to calling the world "ground" than it is calling it dirt.
Not necessarily. It would be just as valid to name the planet after a god or goddess. Plus, fantasy tends to have other realms. See Warhammer's Aethyr for example, that means they have something to distinguish it from. And of course, just because a name isn't mentioned to mean something similar to Earth doesn't mean it doesn't. It's not like most authors talk about the etymology of their place names.
Yeah, that's fine too, it's like... I'm looking at House Miriel and going "Hmm... I wonder if there's an angle to getting the Eonir -- or, one house of them -- more invested in the whole man/elf/dwarf tentative treaty/deal/nascent-trade-potential we've got going here?"
That is, it's almost more about drawing them into human and dwarf affairs. ... But also because of their possible practical contributions, yeah -- after all, they might wind up being the house that helps build the physical parts of the Waystones after we finish.
Though on the other hand, maybe some of what their Vaul smith-priests know about working with the waterfall of energy of the Winds, might come in useful for the planning part of the Waystone project?
Useful about how to interact with a waterfall stream of the Winds of Magic, without it curdling into Dhar.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
That's kind of backwards logic? Yeah, it makes sense that we would categorize other suns and moons like the one we've always known, but by that logic other planets should be called other Earths, instead of planets or worlds. But we have other words for the all-encompassing ball of existence we sit on, but when differentiating it we stuck to just one part of what it was made of.
Like, I'm not etymologist, but the first thing that comes to mind are the latin Gaea and Terra. Terra is the stuff, while Gaea is the world if I understand correctly.
- Location
- Russia
It does not. It refuses to provide a definition as a matter of principle:
Which is a position that I can understand, but which doesn't help at all in any debate about meaning of words. I also believe that a person can call themselves whatever they want and mean anything they want by that and that is totally fine. Confusion arises when we start talking about other people if they can't (or don't care to) voice their own opinion on the subject (e.g. Mathilde).
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