Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[Codex]

2e WFRP straight up says that Elves recognize the Lady as elvish IIRC.

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This is the exact phrasing that Page 42 of Knights of the Grail 2E provides:

"The Fay of Bretonnia are actually the Wood Elves of Athel Loren. Bretonnians do know about Elves; some Sea Elves trade with the country, particularly through L'Anguille where they have a substantial enclave. Wood Elves from the Empire also occasionally pass through. However, most people do not make any connection to the Fay of the forest, the servants of the Lady.

Non-Bretonnian characters who encounter the Fay are quite likely to realise they are Elves, and Bretonnian characters with substantial personal experience of Elves may also make the connection. However, most Bretonnians with personal experience of Elves live in L'Anguille, at the opposite end of the country from the Forest of Loren.

The Fay Enchantress is also an Elf, and characters have the same chance to notice. Elven characters, of course, realise automatically whenever they meet "the Fay."

Perceptive players might notice that the Fay and the Fay Enchantress are all Elves, that the Damsels of the Lady are Wizards, and that there are no Priests of the Lady. This might lead them to ask questions about the nature of the Lady of the Lake. There are some questions, however, to which the answers should remain mysterious."

Personally I think this part of the lore is extraordinarily silly and breaks SOD. Apparently the "Fay" don't even bother to hide that they're Elves, since people can naturally come up to this conclusion without having to investigate too hard.

 

[ChronOblivion]

We need to hire a permanent pilot for our gyrocopter because all the dwarf ones are military assets and we can only borrow them when they are free, which is messing with our flexibility. Adela is the top choice for this because a) we like her and b) she's an engineer.

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I do entirely get the desire for a pilot, but isn't it a waste to hire a Wizard to fly us around? Isn't she doing her own stuff already that doesn't require being on standby to shuttle Mathilde from place to place? Is it an odd look to have a bunch of wizards to join WEB-MAT as contributing members and then hire a Journeywoman to fly us around in ways that have nothing to do with her magic?

There's a comment from Boney recently that any kislevian texts that the Fire Spire produced might have been replicated and then protected by the dwarves of Karak Vlag, and it's plausible that some lost arcane lore is stashed away there. It also means more Vlag interactions, and I'm cool with that.

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Makes sense, especially since we definitely want to consolidate our magical lore in the short term.

The Shamans of the Amber Order have, for a long time, been presenting themselves as "the waystone order". They are the ones who go into the wilds and understand them the best, or so they boast. When Max tried to investigate them, they said that's "need to know information" and stonewalled him. There hasn't been much thread motivation to try to pull them in because we had bigger fish to recruit, but if we're going all in on a recruitment turn, there's very little reason to not try to invite them.

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Here's what Max said.

"The Ambers... well, you know what they're like. The fellow I talked to said they know where most of them are in the Empire if you need to know, but that you probably didn't.

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All that was said was that the Ambers knew the locations of the Empire Waystones, and that we probably didn't have much need for that information (which honestly is probably going to be correct for a while). I did not catch any implication that they were the Empire experts on the matter, and Mathilde clearly didn't either. She immediately went "oh cool, Max just ruled out six of those Orders so we only have to dig into two of them". If we really went to the Ambers, I kinda expect a repeat of Paranoth's "I don't think we have much to really add to this, but you can do me a favor if you really want someone".

 

[pucflek]

Personally I think this part of the lore is extraordinarily silly and breaks SOD. Apparently the "Fay" don't even bother to hide that they're Elves, since people can naturally come up to this conclusion without having to investigate too hard.

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Ironically, later on we get a lore that makes the Fey less elfy and Elfs more Fey, what with Sisters of the Thorn and Wild Riders probably not really qualifiying as elves anymore.

 

[Nonevah]

They basically have four options:
1. Kill them
2. Exile them
3. Have them taught another magical tradition
4. Do nothing

Four is unacceptable, too much risk of Chaos, three doesn't actually prevent them learning Ice magic and also (depending on whether Kislev equates miracles with potential Wizards) sets up or strengthens rival organizations, two is acceptable, but still runs the risk of them returning. The first option is the only one with a 100% guaranteed success rate.

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To note re: 3, Arcane Marks do directly interfere with learning other magic; becoming attuned to a wind makes it impossible to wield other winds and makes it much harder to touch divine magic, and I have to imagine Ice Magic is somewhere on that spectrum.

 

[DragonParadox]

I do entirely get the desire for a pilot, but isn't it a waste to hire a Wizard to fly us around? Isn't she doing her own stuff already that doesn't require being on standby to shuttle Mathilde from place to place? Is it an odd look to have a bunch of wizards to join WEB-MAT as contributing members and then hire a Journeywoman to fly us around in ways that have nothing to do with her magic?

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The Advantages of hiring a wizard is that we get another wizard on call in case we need backup and she would love to do it since she has a passion for engineering.

 

[pucflek]

That assumes Deathfang dates back that far, which we don't know. Also, it assumes that the gods were ever possible to speak to, which we also don't know.

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We do, actually. We know Sigmar and Ancestor Gods could be spoken to . The fealty itself could also have been sworn more metaphysically too. It did not have to be from face to face, we know that Ranald communicates with his mortal followers easily.

But honestly, if there is anyone who actually knows why dragons have separate breeds, its going to be a dragon.

Draugnir and the Caledor dragons for those sworn to High Elf pantheon, Radixashen and Forest dragons are tied to Isha, and the rest decided to bend itself to Winds. Which, by the way, weird. Deathfang doesn't seem to hold the same vitriol for Forest dragons that he does for the Wind ones, despite the fact it alters them pretty significantly. If he did, he would have found some way to insert some snide remark the way he did when we mentioned Cython.

 

[Boney]

@Boney assuming we can show Drycha is actually dead what happens with any grudges against her. Does Mathilde get any reward for clearing them or as an (officially) dwarf is it just considered part of her duties to clear grudges where possible?

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A Dwarf that was a professional warrior would rise in stature, a Dwarf that wasn't would likely receive some sort of reward from the holder of the Grudges. Which category Mathilde fits into is a matter of perspective.

Also can we use the grudge records to figure out who we killed? Hand over a description of Drycha to the loremasters like they did with Cython and see what comes up.

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I might have that be a possible social action, we'll see.

Actually, wait, serious question.

Did the enemy forces have anything on them that could be planted and grown? Like seeds or nuts? Or plant pieces in the case of some types of weeds?
Or parts that can be transplanted, like grafting a dryad branch onto another tree or some such?

Just curious about how much like a plant these mystical, magical tree people are and if there is botanical potential for their remains.

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Hard to tell. It's a forest, there's already seeds and nuts all over the place.

@Boney I have a few questions:

How many days did we take till now for the whole Ostermark/Kislev adventure?

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Very roughly a month. One week with the Taalites, one week with the Hedgewise, one week mustering, one week fighting and wrapping up and heading home.

If we were to create a staff out of Drycha's butt, and it turns out to be clearly better/worse than the Staff of Mystery, what can we do with whatever ends up being the inferior staff? Can we gift it away?

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Probably. I'll flesh out the actual options if that ever becomes the case.

Is it reasonable to think that if we recruit the Ice Witches and have a good working relation with them (be it high Diplo rolls during recruitment or just organically building the relationship with the representative later) that there's a good chance that buying access to Kislev from Boris would be superfluous? Or does that access include things that the Ice Witches cannot provide (or at least not without it costing them)?

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No. The Ice Witches have very little sway with the current Tzar, and their relationship with Boris is very tit-for-tat, not one of mutual trust.

Will we get Parenarch headpats?

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We'll see.

I'm not sure that the distinction is meaningful, given that Greek and Roman religion is firmly relegated to "myth" in modern times. It's historical fact that both came from the same proto-mythologies, and whether that makes them different incarnations of the same being or different gods entirely is a theological question that implicitly assumes they exist at all.

It's a rather more pressing line of inquiry in Warhammer, of course.

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Not that firmly, just ask the Saturnalia trees every December. Syncretism aside, there's been Greco-Roman revivalists so regularly throughout history that one begins to suspect they never truly died out, and there's especially quite a few in modern times. I personally know people in real life who worship Hecate, and on a lighter note, it's very easily arguable that there's more worshippers (for a certain value of worship) of a certain obscure Greek God today through their video game depiction as a bisexual twunk himbo than they ever had during their supposed heyday.

-[ ] JOHANN: Study an artefact: Dryad Ass???????

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Dryad remains is a magical material, rather than something that needs researching from first principles.

I was aiming more for "is Drycha the only (known) Ulgu-Branchwraith, or are there more than just her about?"

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'Generic' Ulgu Branchwraiths do exist in Total Warhammer 2.

 

[Andres]

At this point, Qretch is probably more ingrained in human and Dwarven culture than Skaven culture, because The Horned Rat specifically designed Skaven society to lack things like burial rituals. I think he might actually want to be buried like a human. Would have to ask him though.

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Qrech is more ingrained specifically in the academic part of Empire cuture. Other parts of the culture isn't something he's had much contact or immersion with (and barely interacted with dwarf culture at all). Even then, he was still very confident that it was important to put information on how Chaos Dwarf tastes into his book. I don't think he's had any exposure to non-skaven corpse-handling practices, much less buy-in.

 

[Hydroplatypus]

If we are planning next turn, we should really codify Rite Of Way. This is the second time we have seen it deployed, and both times it has massively altered the course of events. Let's get this into the college books, so we're not the only ones who can do this.

 

[ConfusedCanuck]

[X] [KISLEV] Waystone Project: Hag Witches
[X] [WIDOW] Waystone Project: Ice Witches

 

[Ericwinter]

and on a lighter note, it's very easily arguable that there's more worshippers (for a certain value of worship) of a certain obscure Greek God today through their video game depiction as a bisexual twunk himbo than they ever had during their supposed heyday.

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…I feel like I should get this reference, but I'm drawing a massive blank.

 

[Sib]

[X] [KISLEV] Waystone Project: Hag Witches
[X] [WIDOW] Waystone Project: Ice Witches

 

[Codex]

…I feel like I should get this reference, but I'm drawing a massive blank.

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Zagreus from Hades, the award winning Rogue-Like.

 

[zxzx24]

…I feel like I should get this reference, but I'm drawing a massive blank.

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The video game Hades?

Zagreus?

Edit:
So close.

 

[soulcake]

…I feel like I should get this reference, but I'm drawing a massive blank.

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Zagreus from Hades

EDIT:
I HAVE SHAMED MY ANCESTORS.

 

[StormySky]

If we are planning next turn, we should really codify Rite Of Way. This is the second time we have seen it deployed, and both times it has massively altered the course of events. Let's get this into the college books, so we're not the only ones who can do this.

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Personally I'd be for replacing the Amber recruitment with RoW codification. In-depth knowledge of Waystones' location isn't that useful right now. We're looking for theoretical knowledge, not practical terrain-handling experience.

 

[Nurgle]

So when is Thorek going to explore that hold that was abandoned,sounds like something Mathilde should go with him to make sure he does not die.

 

[Zero Gravitas]

[ ] Attempt to bring an Order into the Waystone Project (Amber Order)

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Didn't the Amber Order get checked and didn't have Waystone lore beyond maps of Waystones?

I do entirely get the desire for a pilot, but isn't it a waste to hire a Wizard to fly us around? Isn't she doing her own stuff already that doesn't require being on standby to shuttle Mathilde from place to place? Is it an odd look to have a bunch of wizards to join WEB-MAT as contributing members and then hire a Journeywoman to fly us around in ways that have nothing to do with her magic?

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Mathilde is important enough and busy enough that having a wizard flying her around is a good investment. She's saved tens of thousands of dwarfs; directed entire armies and changed the course of battles; regularly deals with rulers and currently heads the most ambitious research project in the Old World.

Yeah, having magical staff on hand - and not the blunt oblong object popular with wizards but junior wizards supporting Mathilde's work - is entirely justified.

 

[Ericwinter]

Zagreus from Hades, the award winning Rogue-Like.

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Oh. Yeah, no, I've never actually played that, though the name Zagreus's sounds familiar from ads and short clips. Had no idea Hades was even that well known of a game.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Is it possible to build the Staff of Mystery into the new staff with Drycha's remains, or something like that, incorporate both aspects together?

 

[silentorphan]

Yeah, no, I've never actually played that, though the name Zagreb's sounds familiar from ads and short clips.

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Zagreb is the capital of Croatia; I sort of hope that people would recognize it.

 

[Romv]

on a lighter note, it's very easily arguable that there's more worshippers (for a certain value of worship) of a certain obscure Greek God today through their video game depiction as a bisexual twunk himbo than they ever had during their supposed heyday.

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A modestly popular youtuber probably has more believers than 99.9% of the prophets that have ever existed.

 

[Codex]

Oh. Yeah, no, I've never actually played that, though the name Zagreb's sounds familiar from ads and short clips. Had no idea Hades was even that well known of a game.

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It's won many awards, including GDC Game of the Year Awards, Hugo Awards, BAFTA awards and more. It's got a very thriving tumblr fandom that I think Boney is partly referencing (they're the ones most invested in said himbo after all), and it's overall a bloody good game. Of course it's well known. You should check it out.

 

[Mopman43]

There were a lot of hints that the Lady was somehow linked to the Elves, altough before End Times this vairied from "fake goddess the Asrai set up" to "Ariel using Bretonnia as a meat-shield". No solid evidence on it, but lots of hints. 2e WFRP straight up says that Elves recognize the Lady as elvish IIRC.

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There's also a timeline entry in 6th edition Wood Elves that basically says outright that the Enchantress is a Wood Elf and was appointed to keep control over the Bretonnians.

 

[Vokivas]

…I feel like I should get this reference, but I'm drawing a massive blank.

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Maybe Apollo? He makes sense as himbo, and I'm assuming that a 'twunk' is like a hunky twink. So maybe that fits as well. I don't know about him being bisexual, but I'd believe it. That said, I can only think of him being in God of War when it comes to video game appearances.

That said while I kinda felt dismissive at people actually worshipping Hecate, I guess I can see it. I've already heard about new age types worshipping Ra in their own way. Something to do with the sunrise and a place that never sees light, if you catch my drift. I should probably drop things at that lol.

E:

Welp, I wasn't the only one. Completely wrong tho