Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [KISLEV] Waystone Project: Hag Witches
[X] [WIDOW] Waystone Project: Ice Witches
[X] [WIDOW] Waystone Project: Ice Witches
Thanks for all that, I'll take more well reasoned theories on Warhammer stuff. I'm always learning something, but one thing I do know is that there's very little on Kislev as a whole. So getting more is always good.
That said, I guess I could weigh in on the Ranald=Loec and Shallya=Isha thing.
Just on the face of things, I don't really think Shallya=Isha makes sense.
Mathlann and Manaan being the same being makes sense, just as Shallya being Salyak. And with Isha, specifically, wouldn't Rhya make more sense? With Taal and Kurnous being connected then as well. And so, consequently, Shallya would more likely be something like Isha's granddaughter?
This doesn't say anything about Ranald=Loec, but it's kind of where my knowledge of things ends. You and Codex doubtlessly know much more than me, and gods are weird. Like, how about the Lileath and the Lady amirite?
Hmm, I double checked the wiki in order to make sure I got Lileath's name right and I took a quick look at Loec while I was there. And, that doesn't really scream Ranald to me. Specifically in how Loec represents revelry and storytelling and stuff. That said, there's potential with the trickery angle. I mean, there's already the theory that Handrich is just Ranald in disguise. Having a face to get in with the rich, where Ranald is for the poor.
With that in mind, maybe it's all just Loec. I don't really know, and I find myself skeptical anyway. How trickery is just one facet of Loec, and in order for this theory to be true I feel like the scope is just too large. Then again, Lileath has arguably pulled a larger trick and that's not even in her wheelhouse.
Soooo, maybe? Eh, I'm probably missing a lot that more knowledgeable people would find obvious. So take this as you will, I guess. Thanks again.
E: Might as well throw this out here while I'm at it.
[X] Waystone Project: Hag Witches
[X] Waystone Project: Ice Witches
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- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
One of the main reasons we have to believe Ranald and Loec are the same is:
Deathfang identified Ranald's divine intervention on our behalf as being the Dancer's energies. Now, is Deathfang necessarily correct? No. He can be wrong, they might look very similar but not be the same, the same way you might confuse a man you know for his brother if you see him across a room. But it's still evidence.
(We also have a strong reason to believe that Qu'aph, Nehekharan God of Snakes and Subtlety, is Ranald, because looking at the Nehekharan coins that bore his image gave Mathilde an odd sense of familiarity. But I know of nothing tying Qu'aph to Loec.)
[X] [KISLEV] Waystone Project: Hag Witches
[X] [WIDOW] Waystone Project: Ice Witches
I'm assuming at some point one of our experiments couldl go wrong in a way that produces Dhar, and while the belt will protect Mathilde it would be great for the health and morale of everyone else if there was someone on staff who could cleanse any taint arising from that
[X] [WIDOW] Waystone Project: Ice Witches
I'm assuming at some point one of our experiments couldl go wrong in a way that produces Dhar, and while the belt will protect Mathilde it would be great for the health and morale of everyone else if there was someone on staff who could cleanse any taint arising from that
Hearing more small details, especially Mathilda's own internal feelings, pushing things over the edge for me.
Dang tho, this changes how I look at Loec big time. Even if Lileath has molded an entire nation, Loec's influence is spread far and runs deep.
I guess that's a thing though. Interesting intellectually, since the most important thing for us is probably just focusing on the daughters. That said, it does make me interested in poking at Loec.
Sacrificing the copy of Ranald's divine energy, just to go snooping around for his actual origins and stuff. Showing Ranald we know that there's a con going on. Though, as fun as it is to think about, I have to imagine it'd be a huge deal for Mathilda's personal faith. Putting it lightly, I suppose.
- Location
- The Medium
[x] [KISLEV] Waystone Project: Hag Witches
[x] [WIDOW] Waystone Project: Ice Witches
[x] [WIDOW] Waystone Project: Ice Witches
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [KISLEV] Waystone Project: Kislev
[X] [WIDOW] Waystone Project: Ice Witches
[X] [WIDOW] Waystone Project: Ice Witches
First, note that the Lady being Lileath is End Times canon and may not be quest canon - although from my understanding there have been a lot of hints for it even before End Times, you'll need to ask some real loremaster to make sure. Second, @picklepikkl mentioned Deathfang and his identification of Loec with Ranald. It is also due to Deathfang that we suspect Shallya might be Isha, because:
Deathfang claims that the Goddess the people of Athel Loren worship is Rhya, which is not Isha, which is...bizzare, frankly. It's part of the reason I'm not sure he's right about Loec being Ranald. But if he's right about that then the story of the Ellinilli and the connection to the story of Ranald and Shallya seems to draw a connection between Shallya and Isha, and there are some other connections like how they both have a thing with tears...but yeah, you kind of have to squint to see it, and I think Deathfang might be partly or completely wrong. I have a whole spiel about my ideas regarding the nature of the Gods which I will spare you because it's based on pretty much nothing but speculation, but to make it very brief: it might be that Gods are a bit like spellcasters wielding Lores, and Deathfang identifies Loec and Ranald because both use 'the Lore of Being a Trickster God', and Mathilde sees similarities between Ranald and other trickster Gods for similar reasons. My full thoughts on this are a bit more complicated and I won't get into them, I just want to say that it isn't obvious that Ranald is definitely Loec (or Qu'aph for that matter).
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- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
@Boney I have a few questions:
How many days did we take till now for the whole Ostermark/Kislev adventure?
If we were to create a staff out of Drycha's butt, and it turns out to be clearly better/worse than the Staff of Mystery, what can we do with whatever ends up being the inferior staff? Can we gift it away?
Is it reasonable to think that if we recruit the Ice Witches and have a good working relation with them (be it high Diplo rolls during recruitment or just organically building the relationship with the representative later) that there's a good chance that buying access to Kislev from Boris would be superfluous? Or does that access include things that the Ice Witches cannot provide (or at least not without it costing them)?
Will we get Parenarch headpats?
How many days did we take till now for the whole Ostermark/Kislev adventure?
If we were to create a staff out of Drycha's butt, and it turns out to be clearly better/worse than the Staff of Mystery, what can we do with whatever ends up being the inferior staff? Can we gift it away?
Is it reasonable to think that if we recruit the Ice Witches and have a good working relation with them (be it high Diplo rolls during recruitment or just organically building the relationship with the representative later) that there's a good chance that buying access to Kislev from Boris would be superfluous? Or does that access include things that the Ice Witches cannot provide (or at least not without it costing them)?
Will we get Parenarch headpats?
Could you explain the parallels to when we were Belegar's Loremaster? Afaik, our scouting actions brought actual information (alongside all the assassination and sabotage), our "killing with mountains" tower was exactly that, our Skaven dictionary was exactly that, our anti-Dragon item was unconventional but otherwise functional for the specified task and our prep support for the Karak Dum mission was considerable even discounting Mathilde herself joining.
Of course the other result of this reputation could be that people underpay us. They might notice that it is enough to ask Mathilde to "go have a look" at something and repay the favor in that size category while in reality they know what's there, namely a massive headache for them that is exactly the kind of stuff that Mathilde won't let rest until it's solved. Normally such underpaying would result in having problems and a bad reputation in the whole favor economy system, but if Mathilde never complains or asks for more than is given then the next Mira or Paranoth might do this stuff consciously instead surreptitiously getting a lucky break.
In war specifically I actually kind of like it every now and then. Prevents glorifying battles too much. But definitely not in all of my stories.
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Boney fielded this already:
About a month.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Sorry. I think you misunderstood me because I quoted too little of your statement.
You say she only technically accomplishes her goals, with only bare-bones effort. My memory of the events is that she more than technically achieved any concrete goals Belegar gave her. That she achieved them actually and satisfactory and then either added on top or supported the Karak in a different way. And that her effort put into the actual tasks was usually fair, not bare-bones. 1.5 to 2.5 AP is not little, especially when the results still come out satisfactory and within a decent amount of time.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
…Man, the age differential in this project is going to be weird. And not just literally, because Elder race and humans. I mean even relatively. We're going to have, like, four or five grandparents, and about as many young adults—magically speaking, at least—in the same room.
Also wow, that Ice Witch vote. It's almost as much of a curbstomp as Kislev just gave Drycha.
Also wow, that Ice Witch vote. It's almost as much of a curbstomp as Kislev just gave Drycha.
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
But that's just what they want you to think.
See, while she is faithful, she also tends to see Ranald as her friend, rather than any sort of messiah or anything. I think her finding out that her friend did some cool shit in Nekahara and on Ulthuan wouldn't really mess her up too bad.
We know she already suspects that Ranald has more faces than he lets anybody know about, and the thrill of discovery and cons and figuring out cons is part of his whole domain.
- Location
- Moscow
Not quite imo. Mathilde notably gets more out of this arrangement than if she stumbled upon the situation by accident - she now gets Kislev's favor and Jade favor instead of just Kislev's favor. She is not formally here on behalf of Jades and therefore not required to share credit with them. Just treat it as a steady source of quests - anyone consciously asking to do less won't complain when Mathilde gets credit for doing more.
- Location
- The Space Between
our most meaningful interaction with Lijlijana was as a friend of Ranald, allowing him to join his kin in the Kislevite Pantheon's thrashing of the Kul. Specifically, our choice to duel a Khorne Champion so that the Bear-nado would have enough time to obliterate the Kul before slapping the Brute
in this instance we behaved as a protector of Kislev, in a specific way that isn't normally covered by the rest of the Pantheon. I mean, we intervened because something weird was going on is Ostermark . . . that's not Kislev. It's definitely outside the notice of those tied up in the unending battle to keep Kislev safe. We went from that investigation to figuring out that there was danger to the Shirokij which was hiding itself from bigger forces. We inform the real teeth of Kislev, and assist in getting them where they need to be. Then, in the fighting, the Protector isn't needed to win any of the open field battles. Even without us, a bloody victory could have been had once we did the front part of searching, finding and informing.
But then we go the extra mile, tail an immaterial foe that seeks to ambush Lijlijana and turn the tide locally, counterambush them in a way that keeps Lijlijana protected and the Widow's power blasts out to isolate the thing. Then, when the creature attempts a follow-up the sharp claw of the cat cuts the foe in half. We follow that up with a blast borrowed from a sibling college, and the enemy is blasted beyond escaping. After that, the teeth of Kislev simply bite into their enemies and clean up the remnants of what could have been the extermination of the peoples of the Shirokij and their Boyar.
In short, we once again go beyond the expectation of "useful but cowardly" and provide a narrow but sharp intervention in the battle that shifts it from "risky/bloody" to "stomp". This is a lesser feat than the one with the Kul, but it's still a Ranaldite participating in the defense of Kislev through more than just shadows and words.