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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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K von Carstein said:
I don't care much about flying horses, but I definitely want our own Nazguls. Riding like thunder across the countryside followed by dark riders is too awesome an idea not to consider. Normally I'm opposed to decision taken on a purely fun/awesome factor, but it seems I'm not so above it:V
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I'm sick of always voting for the optimal solution. Sometimes I just want to have fun, so I advocate for Steed of Shadows. I know it's suboptimal. It's very likely that most people don't share the same level of desire for a flying horse as I do and wouldn't consider it worth it for me to have fun. But I gotta try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
 
Well, everyone is now distracted by the update, but on the update on learning battle magics and gaining traits that could make it easier, a few facts for you consideration:
-Algard believes the liminal space the Grey College resides in is the source of Penumbral Pendulum and Pit of Shades
-Kurtis believes that liminal space is the Hedge
-Walther Kupfer believes that liminal space is the shadows of the Forest of Shadows, stolen by Halétha

Now, I'm not saying that working with the Haléthain Hedgewise will give us a way to cast Penumbral Pendulum and Pit of Shades safely...but I'm not not saying it.
 
mathymancer said:
Well, everyone is now distracted by the update, but on the update on learning battle magics and gaining traits that could make it easier, a few facts for you consideration:
-Algard believes the liminal space the Grey College resides in is the source of Penumbral Pendulum and Pit of Shades
-Kurtis believes that liminal space is the Hedge
-Walther Kupfer believes that liminal space is the shadows of the Forest of Shadows, stolen by Halétha

Now, I'm not saying that working with the Haléthain Hedgewise will give us a way to cast Penumbral Pendulum and Pit of Shades safely...but I'm not not saying it.
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I appreciate the hustle, but getting secrets from the Hedgewise within our lifetime is not possible. The Hedgewise of Ostermark and Reikland were recently purged in large numbers by Sigmarites who infiltrated their society ("recently". I mean during the 2200s or something). That's the reason they no longer communicate between the different branches. They're too scared of a repeat.

Maybe the coin would help, but the fear of genocide is strong.
 
I want a handmaiden apparition.
Because i think it is functional, but also because i think having one or two handmaidens wandering in the mists we create would look cool and badass.
 
Zero Gravitas said:
Still we have had an unimpressive performance. Thankfully Mathilde is the one who actually found Alberecht in the first place or the Grey College would have been eternally shamed.
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Apparently, all you had to do was ask
Dice are feeling dramatic tonight

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Codex said:
I'm sick of always voting for the optimal solution. Sometimes I just want to have fun, so I advocate for Steed of Shadows. I know it's suboptimal. It's very likely that most people don't share the same level of desire for a flying horse as I do and wouldn't consider it worth it for me to have fun. But I gotta try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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I'm not saying you shouldn't vote for Steed of Shadow, on the contrary🙃 You're right that without trying it won't happen. I'm just saying I find pet Nazgul more awesome and will vote for them instead😉
 
mathymancer said:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure your Goddess letting you know someone can be trusted can change that equation.
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We don't know the limitations of the coin, but I think I have a different read on it than you do. The coin wouldn't let them spill their traditions and secrets without Mathilde renouncing the Grey College and joining the Hedgewise. It's literally unheard of for the Hedgewise to teach someone their traditions if they were not initated into their in group, and the Nordlanders are some of the more traditional groups of the Hedgewise. That's just their culture and traditions, and the Hedgewise put a great deal of importance on tradition and age. They're kind of like Dwarves in that regard. The coin might make them trust us, but that doesn't mean they'll see us as one of their own unless we discard the Grey College.
 
Codex said:
We don't know the limitations of the coin, but I think I have a different read on it than you do. The coin wouldn't let them spill their traditions and secrets without Mathilde renouncing the Grey College and joining the Hedgewise. It's literally unheard of for the Hedgewise to teach someone their traditions if they were not initated into their in group, and the Nordlanders are some of the more traditional groups of the Hedgewise. That's just their culture and traditions, and the Hedgewise put a great deal of importance on tradition and age. They're kind of like Dwarves in that regard. The coin might make them trust us, but that doesn't mean they'll see us as one of their own unless we discard the Grey College.
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I don't think the Hedgewise are going to teach us Hedge magic - and Mathilde probably couldn't cast it if they tried. But it can't be that inconceivable that they will share some secrets with us, even without the coin, or else Kurtis would have shot down the idea of getting them into the Waystone project when it was raised. I don't know how much they would share normally, but however much that is, the coin will probably make them share more.
 
Codex said:
I'm sick of always voting for the optimal solution. Sometimes I just want to have fun, so I advocate for Steed of Shadows. I know it's suboptimal. It's very likely that most people don't share the same level of desire for a flying horse as I do and wouldn't consider it worth it for me to have fun. But I gotta try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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I'd be on board with lobbying for Steed of Shadows if it had been a spell that summoned a freely controllable mount that could fly. It being a battle magic tier spell we'd have to chain cast if we wanted to go to multiple places on a battlefield did put a damper on my enthusiasm. :cry:

It came up before but allowing the spell to retarget on the fly would crank up the complexity too.

The appeal of a flying mount hits me hard, but also I don't want another Animal Companion (pegasus) either so I'm stuck in the limbo of just being happy enough with the eventual tricked out kickflip copter haha.
 
mathymancer said:
I don't think the Hedgewise are going to teach us Hedge magic - and Mathilde probably couldn't cast it if they tried. But it can't be that inconceivable that they will share some secrets with us, even without the coin, or else Kurtis would have shot down the idea of getting them into the Waystone project when it was raised. I don't know how much they would share normally, but however much that is, the coin will probably make them share more.
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According to Boney, Kurtis can cast Hedge Magic, and he can clearly cast Grey Magic. But then again, he practiced their traditions before he entered the Colleges. But I think I get what you're saying now. You're talking about theory. Yeah I think we can get that out of them if the Coin works.
 
How about we research Bok with the help of our new elven friends and Thorek of course and then ask Kragg to make us a pegasi construct?
 
Codex said:
According to Boney, Kurtis can cast Hedge Magic, and he can clearly cast Grey Magic. But then again, he practiced their traditions before he entered the Colleges. But I think I get what you're saying now. You're talking about theory. Yeah I think we can get that out of them if the Coin works.
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Good point about Kurtis. Yeah, I suppose Hedge magic might actually be compatible with Ulgu, what with the Hedgewise being a precursor tradition to the Grey College and all that. Wouldn't count on it, though. And yes, I was thinking about theory, 'the nature of the Hedge' and such.
 
Remake said:
How about we research Bok with the help of our new elven friends and Thorek of course and then ask Kragg to make us a pegasi construct?
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That is unbelievably optimistic. Let's see if we can actually work out a Sevirscope first before we start thinking about bringing Elves into Kragg's workshop.
 
Battle-magic-wise, I'm not too hot on Steed of Shadows. I would, however, be very keen on a scaled up, branulhune-esque version of our shadow sword mastery, like a combination of Mindrazor and Penumbral Pendulum, just… sword shaped. Call it the 'Sword of Damocles'. :V

Either that or something like a 'fog of forgetfulness', for mass crowd disruption/pacification, but the sword idea is way more fun.
 
Xepheria said:
Battle-magic-wise, I'm not too hot on Steed of Shadows. I would, however, be very keen on a scaled up, branulhune-esque version of our shadow sword mastery, like a combination of Mindrazor and Penumbral Pendulum, just… sword shaped. Call it the 'Sword of Damocles'. :V

Either that or something like a 'fog of forgetfulness', for mass crowd disruption/pacification, but the sword idea is way more fun.
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Why work on a Battle Magic spell that could kill us to make a sword that's as killy or killier than what we already have and doesn't require use to cast? At least Steed gives us utility by giving us a vantage point from which to view and position ourselves across the Battlefield and cast spells like we're playing an RTS battle, which isn't something we already have. The fantastic thing about Mindrazor is that it makes an entire unit as killy as Branulhune, and Penumbral Pendulum can decimate an entire line, both things that our swords can't do. Upscaling our shadow sword doesn't give us anything new.
 
DragonParadox said:
Even if the dwarfs could at one point make flying constructs, they certainly cannot do it now
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Codex said:
I think the point they were making was that we would reverse engineer Bok to create flying constructs. Which... is very optimistic. Maybe if we restore all the Great Works of the Ancestors we'll find a Pegasus Maker I guess.
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I just started playing K8P on hard mode yesterday.Stopped playing and just read the quest once again. So I was a little optimistic I guess.:)
 
By the way, the reason I advocate so much for Steed of Shadows is partly because it's the easiest Shadow BM alongside Melkoth's, except it can't be upcast. It's a 5+ to cast, which makes it very easy (for BM). That doesn't mean it is without risk, but it does mean that it doesn't come anywhere near the risk of Pit of Shades, Pendulum or Mindrazor. It's less impressive to compensate for that.
 
Codex said:
Why work on a Battle Magic spell that could kill us to make a sword that's as killy or killier than what we already have and doesn't require use to cast? At least Steed gives us utility by giving us a vantage point from which to view and position ourselves across the Battlefield and cast spells like we're playing an RTS battle, which isn't something we already have. The fantastic thing about Mindrazor is that it makes an entire unit as killy as Branulhune, and Penumbral Pendulum can decimate an entire line, both things that our swords can't do. Upscaling our shadow sword doesn't give us anything new.
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You misunderstand me. It's not about making a better version of Branulhune, it's about creating a giant illusory sword, or multiple smaller illusory swords, that hang over the heads of our enemies and then execute them. Hence, 'Sword of Damocles'.
 
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