We could be very smug about it.
More seriously, do as per the Liber Mortis.
Use it to find another aligned data source to launder the knowledge
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
More seriously, do as per the Liber Mortis.
Use it to find another aligned data source to launder the knowledge
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Sure, but I imagine that still bears some relationship to their fluff capabilities, and that pit of Shades would be less useful against slaanesh demons than other armies
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Sure, broadly, but the ability to delete part of an army is pretty unmatched.
Suppose it's a matter of how big the area of the Pit is.
do we know dwarven runes? do we have any way to make dwarven runes that doesn't get us killed by a dedicated host of the karaz ankor? no? then we dont have a way to write khazalid with magic...
tbf that was not really the important part (but i will give you that the dwarfs probably didnt invent khazalid on their own), the more important part is that runes where not made by the old ones, those are a pure dwarven invention and are literally so closely connected to the ancestors that only direct descendents of thungni can even make them...
no... you dont use arcane khazalid to carve runes... you use runes, which are unique...
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Since the Ulgu sword metaphor can likely be applied to the liminal space that Penumbral Pendulum draws on, and since the Rune of the Unknown itself likely keys into the *dwarven* understanding of liminal spaces, I could see Mathilde eventually develop her own variation of Penumbral Pendulum that's particularly effective or safe when used with Branulhune.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
I didn't say Mathilde could do it, I said that we know it can be done. Which is inherently interesting when the same isn't true of the magical languages we currently know.
Only direct descendants of Thungni are allowed to learn runecrafting in the modern Karaz Ankor.
We have no evidence that those are the only people who can learn it. Indeed the prohibition on anyone else learning it strongly suggests that other people could (if they were allowed) as you don't generally make something illegal if it's already impossible.
Arcane Khazalid is the language they teach to runesmiths, who later learn to carve runes through means unknown to us.
Lingua Praestentia is the language taught to magisters, who later use it to speak spells.
We don't know for sure the exact relationship between them, and the only way we're likely to find out is if we learn Arcane Khazalid.
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- Location
- Florida
... So what I'm hearing is that we should totally learn how it to fling an infinitely thin dimensional slice with a swing of our sword.
So, looking at the language argument form a bit of a distance, we know that the elves have a flowery language with multiple meanings and can also wield multiple winds, the dwarfs have a very precise language and their magic has very precise effects, each skaven clan with their specialization has their own language, we have a polygot trait and are attempting to decypher a cross-discipline enchantment. I wonder if further study of languages could be useful.
Well, yeah, unlimited power is kind of implied to be a one-woman thing.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Mathilde can contribute a great deal in a battle. We've seen it in the attack on the Kul camp, she can cast MMM repeatedly.
She doesn't need the other BM to be extremely useful in a battle, and she can avoid major risk of blowing up.
i can give you a quite easy reason why arcane Khazalid is not used in rune forging... because if it was we would not be able to learn it. the dwarfs like us, yes. they might even declare that we are dwarf souled. but they will never, never let us at the secrets of rune-craft.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
That sounds like a great way to get a grudge declared against us.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
Smithing is used in rune forging, and we know mages who are learning to smith.
They'd never teach us everything about rune forging, but that doesn't mean that they won't teach us anything that's used during the process, merely that there are certain aspects they'll never reveal.
Arcane Khazalid clearly is more secret than smithing, but less secret than rune forging - and, to me, the fact it's more secret than smithing, and is a secret of the runesmiths, suggests that it has some level of significance to the rune process.
- Location
- Earth
But it is better than Branarhune, Fog-based battle magic we can actually spam, apparition binding, windherding equipment upgrades, and Master Assassination? It's not just a binary choice of knowing it and not knowing it, it's a choice between grabbing BM and getting something else. The reason people keep bringing up risk isn't just that risk is bad, it's that risk is bad and there are alternative, probably less-risky ways of still achieving the goal of increasing Mathilde's combat effectiveness.
... Because smiting has nothing to do with the magical side of the equation? Like... Going "oh they would teach us smiting" is like going "but a Wand carver would teach a hedge wizard how to whittle wood so they will teach the incantations too..." it's a nonsensical argument...
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
Lets say Mathilde was to teach someone Lingua Praestentia. Would you consider that the same as teaching them spells? I imagine you'd be more wary of teaching Lingua Praestentia than of whittling, but less so than spellcasting
Yeah, it wouldn't be a problem because human wizards have not the incredibly strict and draconic secrecy standarts the Dwarfs have. As we have seen even if you want to learn smiting from dwarfs you need to earn their trust and proof yourself worthy. Now imagine how incredibly strict the standards would be for a area where one of your ancestor gods explicitly made a rule that no one but the Dwarfs should have access to this knowledge and that any who get peeks of it somehow should be hunted down...
- Location
- USA
Isn't that the trouble facing down the thread when trying to figure out what does and doesn't count as divine magic and what would get Mathilde swatted by the cults?
Yes, and now imagine if the dwarfs do it... Like, if we fuck with the rune craft I am absolutely certain that we will get a entry into the dammaz Kron and will be hunted down.
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- Earth
From the WoQM archive:
Yes, attempting to steal the secrets of the dwarves is bad. This would not be stealing secrets, it'd be being given access to them. If you can't see the inherent value of learning a magical language in a setting where we have strong hints that magic is language, then I think the best move here would be to agree to disagree.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
I don't personally care about learning Battle Magic either, but I think you are doing this one a disservice. Yes, that's how those two spells compare in tabletop, but tabletop is very far from realistic physics and circumstances. It is turn based, making there be no difference between teleportation and fast travel and it invariably happens on what is a quite tiny battlefield, making any nuance between long range and massive range disappear.
@Boney What's the rough range estimate of Smoke and Mirrors and the range and duration of Steed of Shadows?
Also, completely unrelated question: Can Mathilde see if Regimand's robe is enchanted?
Arcane Khazalid, if it works like Anoqeyan and Lingua Praestantia, is also a spoken language and not just a written one.
That's because they themselves aren't magical. And actually, that's not quite true. We know that Runesmiths can physically interact with magic with their bodies better than average Dwarves. They can feel spells happening enough to dispel them, the powerful ones can "see" it by how their bodies repel it and even Vlagi Runepokers can feel magical shockwaves that leaves all other Dwarves completely untouched. There might very well be something like very minor cantrips with verbal components among the Runesmiths. It might even be a part of how Runesmithing works.
Well, Mathilde has interacted with both Snorri and a lot of other Rangers. Your answer is comprehensive enough to me though. Thanks.
I love it, but without research it's little more than a fancy lie to seem important. If only we had continued the Divine AV route and could eventually see if Ranald and/or Loec had a tangible connection to the Ulgu liminal space beyond being vaguely Ulguy in concept.
- Location
- Earth
From the spellbook:
They both say short range, so it should be within about 20 meters.
Edit: Smoke and Mirrors says 100 yards, which is significantly larger than 20 meters. Hmm, that implies about a 5x range...
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Moderate, moderate, and very short.
If she completely forgot all semblance of manners and subjected a fellow Wizard to an extremely invasive mystical scrutinization, yes.
Steed of Shadows says the target must be within short range, not that the range the person is transported is short.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Good to know. Leaving Regimand specifically out of it, does "extremely invasive" only denote the breach of privacy or would the staring and studying actually be felt as invasive by the subject Wizard? I.e. is ethics the only thing preventing her from looking into the inventory and souls of everyone she interacts with for a while or is it also about not being a noticeable ass?