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This is kind of an odd comment for Dreng to make, given how he himself is an ex-clanless ex-ranger. Even if he was the kind to still sleep under the mountain more often than not while Snorri was extremely outdoorsy even among the Redbeards or something, he should be sensitive to this oft overused disparaging remark that gets used by traditionalists against the majority of Rangers.

I'm curious what this says about Snorri, Dreng or both.
Dreng being an ex-clanless ex-ranger is part of the point. Snorri here is being presented as the ranger-iest of rangers, somebody so immersed in ranger-hood that other rangers will call out their ranger-like qualities. Like the doctor that other doctors go and see when they're ill, or the chef that other chefs go to when they want something fancy.
 
I don't think rangers is prestigious, because there's no ranger god. Obviously, they are respected because they fullfill a needful role, but by the nature of the role they're going to be different than the hold dwarfs. It both makes them different, and is attractive to those who already are different. So I can easily see ranger as used for "strange in a not immoral way".

Plus, there's also another aspect: Nobody tries as hard to be respectable/conforming as someone who's from an outgroup trying to be accept in the in-group. Doesn't even have to be conscious.
I think you misunderstood me. "Been too long under the open sky" is a borderline slur towards Rangers, Imperial Dwarves, Expats and other assorted vagabonds. Dreng used to be one of those. So he is either using it because he's "allowed" and Snorri fits the stereotype of whatever being too long under the open sky is supposed to stereotypically do to to a Dwarf (I don't actually know) more so than others, or Dreng is leaning heavy into not being "one of those" anymore and uses disparaging language to put space between himself and a rangery Ranger, either consciously or unconsciously.

Edit: Slur is probably the wrong word, but I couldn't remember the word for a more mild form of slur/negative stereotype. Dog whistle comes to mind but fits even less.
 
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I think what Rafin is saying is that it's weird that Dreng is the one saying it, because he used to be a Ranger too, and Belegar directly chastised him in front of the council for thinking like a Ranger and doing what was immediately convenient rather than looking for the best solution. Rangers are not prestigous yes, but Dreng was a Ranger. A clanless Ranger at that, which is worse than a disgraced clan in the eyes of Dwarves.
Dreng was a ranger. Now he's the military leader of one of the most prestigious holds there is. He could very well be trying to distance himself from his past, even subconsciously. (And as you mentioned, he's been called out for being to ranger-y, though in a different facet, and Belegar is idiologically very ranger adjacent where tactics are concerned)

The whole origin of the thought was Athene's really interesting thread on the history of the gay movement, and specifically respectability politics. There's obviously lots of differences, but it reminded me of that. I can't say from personal experience how true that is. I'm white, male, straight, and mostly cis, the only thing I'm missing from maximum privilege is a few million in the bank (not poor mind, just not particularly rich either). I've not been in the position to experience that, and I don't really know anyone who has (or at least, if they did I'm not aware).

(Personnally, I'd be inclined to just put the whole thing down to Boney not considering Dreng's past there. He's not exactly a major character, and for all that Boney is excellent a keeping the character voice, expecting that every part of every line is a bit much. Mistakes happen, and since Boney works on a quick release cycle, he can't do extensive editing either.)
I think you misunderstood me. "Been too long under the open sky" is a borderline slur towards Rangers, Imperial Dwarves, Expats and other assorted vagabonds. Dreng used to be one of those. So he is either using it because he's "allowed" and Snorri fits the stereotype of whatever being too long under the open sky is supposed to stereotypically do to to a Dwarf (I don't actually know) more so than others, or Dreng is leaning heavy into not being "one of those" anymore and uses disparaging language to put space between himself and a rangery Ranger, either consciously or unconsciously.

Edit: Slur is probably the wrong word, but I couldn't remember the word for a more mild form of slur/negative stereotype. Dog whistle comes to mind but fits even less.
Hmm, we might have misunderstood each other, because the second option is pretty much what I meant. So, yay agreement?
 
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I think you misunderstood me. "Been too long under the open sky" is a borderline slur towards Rangers, Imperial Dwarves, Expats and other assorted vagabonds. Dreng used to be one of those. So he is either using it because he's "allowed" and Snorri fits the stereotype of whatever being too long under the open sky is supposed to stereotypically do to to a Dwarf (I don't actually know) more so than others, or Dreng is leaning heavy into not being "one of those" anymore and uses disparaging language to put space between himself and a rangery Ranger, either consciously or unconsciously.

Edit: Slur is probably the wrong word, but I couldn't remember the word for a more mild form of slur/negative stereotype. Dog whistle comes to mind but fits even less.
I think you are taking it to the wrong conclusion. Snorri is just too radical for even Rangers due to cumulative experience in ranging, which is why even other rangers, including Dreng, call him that.

Its what my language lovingly calls "occupational disease" although i suppose the more true to the general sentiment statement would be "occupational tic".
 
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and Belegar is idiologically very ranger adjacent where tactics are concerned
He is now. I'm not sure he was back then, when the calling out happened.

I think you are taking it to the wrong conclusion. Snorri is just too radical for even Rangers due to cumulative experience in ranging, which is why even other rangers, including Dreng, call him that.

Its what my language lovingly calls "occupational disease" although i suppose the more true to the general sentiment statement would be "occupational tic".
That's one of the two options I saw. That Snorri is so rangery even Rangers use Ranger-derogatories on him. The way gay people will call certain other gay people "such a princess" (or quite a bit worse) without that having the malice of a homophobe doing it.

But in that case I'm curious what makes Snorri that much more of a surface-dwelling rangery Ranger than usual. Not because I can't see him having that characterization. But because the only other named Ranger that we've interacted with is Ulthar, who is maybe even more of a raging Ranger, especially when contrasted with his status as a crown prince. And Dreng I guess, but for all that Dreng was our colleague, we never really got much of a glimpse of his personality outside of the formal setting of council meetings. Not due to any failure on Boney's part. We simply didn't care to socialize with most of our colleagues much and not everyone can be as outgoing or oversharing as Kazrik or Gotri.

So my point is that I a) don't have enough examples to compare Snorri's behavior to to know if he's that much of an outlier and b) don't know Dreng well enough to understand his mindset and give him the full benefit of the doubt. Thus me finding that particular line noteworthy on a closer re-read.


P.S.: "Derogatory" is the milder synonym of "slur" that didn't come to mind before. I think.
 
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Snorri spent most of his life watching over High Pass, some six hundred miles from his 'home' Karak. Most Rangers would consider months away from home to be a long jaunt, Snorri accumulated decades. Even for a Ranger, that's a long time to spend without good solid rock over your head.
 
Mustering
Intended to interleave with this:
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest Fantasy - Users' Choice!

Awakening: Gretel Maurer knew something was wrong, and she couldn’t pinpoint what it was. It had barely been a year since she had officially joined the efforts of Braganza’s Besiegers in building a Border Princedom that could control the Howling River and thereby grant Barak Varr dominance...


Ruprecht Wulfhart Jr. had a thing for ambushes. It wasn't very knightly of him, he knew, but Ulric wasn't impressed by needless dying and so enemies got the axe by the safest route. This was what his father had drilled into him early. "Take care of your knights." Make sure they are fed, rested, equipped, loyal- they will fight for you like demons. And so he excused himself his gleeful whoop as the wolf between his legs he called Rimeruff lept off the top of a low cliff.

It really wasn't anything worth calling a cliff, he opined to himself in the brief moment of weightlessness at the top of his arc, since it was only about eight or ten feet high. A dry riverbed cut against a low rise, looking wonderfully innocent to the small band of orcs and goblins that Lumpin's crew had tipped them off to. But that little bit of hight was enough to obscure the approach of the wolfriders until the first orc was slammed down under a thousand pounds of canine.

Ruprecht was fourth over the cliff, possessed of a splendid view of the first kill and the dubious honor of the third. He made a mental note to give Ser Chiln a hard time for it later.

The battle did not last. The orcs recovered from their surprise before the heads and limbs of the first unfortunates hit the ground, and no one lived long underestimating a trapped goblin, but the battle did not last. Casualties were light- one in eight wounded, one in twenty wounded beyond the ability to ride. But that was the beauty of it to him, the grace of the wolf that hamstrung it's prey from the blind spot- blindspots being the sort of thing only experienced cavalry commanders knew how to look at a landscape and estimate timing for.

"Alright! Strip the corpses of metal, toss on oil and torches! You know the drill!"

He didn't want to call it unusual that he got to lead a warband these days, lest Ulric send a waaagh or something to test him, but it was a diversion from the masses of paperwork and meetings that held most of his attention these days. More than a year in, he thought to himself, and things were only now really settling down.

Watchtowers, supply depots, figuring out which patrol routes were fast and which were thorough, dealing with the interminable headache that was the locals- it added up to a Sir Ruprecht that had barely slept more than two-score hours a week. So much of it required his touch, his face- or rather, it didn't, but exactly, but he had studied the Viceroy Francisco, and how he had built up Karag Nar. Being the face, being seen to make the decisions and hand out justice- that was how you cemented control among allies. And how you made sure your own did their jobs.

Tomorrow he'd spend the night in the camp of his most credible rival, at least as he judged things- Lucas had signed with King Belegar well before the victory at Eightpeaks was compete, so he was trusted by the dwarves, and his unit has a commendable style. Of course, this wasn't high stakes, not really- he considered the man a friend and knew that they'd likely end up first and second in command, but who was going to be on top? That was the question that brought a small grin to his face.

And wasn't Gretel supposed to be there too? She was a friend of a sort, admittedly one he'd reached out to on Hubert's advice. Wizards were wizards, but Hubert was as solid as a dwarf and he'd had time enough on the expedition to learn a few things. So when he'd asked Hubert who among the Eightpeaks circle was most like the Lady Magister, he'd smirked and directed him to Gretel.

He still wasn't quite sure why, but she'd promised him a game of cards next they saw eachother. Perhaps it would be a chance to find out.
 
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Above you the sky is broken by three towers, the only things that break the otherwise even skyline: one of silver, one of obsidian, and one of marble.
As an aside, I was debating whether I should post this in thread or wait for Boney to use his amazing worldbuilding skills to expand on these when needed, and I thought to myself that it wouldn't hurt to just post it. Boney will clearly expand and change things when necessary, and he's already done so several times with the Eonir.

"The skyline is defined by three marble towers. The heavily guarded Silver Tower, containing the Queen's throne, is the tallest and oldest. The Dragon Tower is the second tallest and is currently empty. In ages past it served as a rookery for Dragons, as evidenced by the scorched interior. [REDACTED]. Finally, the Hippocrene Tower also sits abandoned, by decree of the Queen. Long ago it was inhabited by a great seer named Sarriel, who is now revered as a demigod by the Eonir." Page 80 4E Archives of the Empire

You will note that Boney already changed the towers from three marble towers to a marble, obsidian and silver tower. I'm guessing the Silver one is the Queen's tower, Obsidian is the Dragon Tower, and marble is the Hippocrene Tower. I do think it's neat that 4th Edition brought over Sarriel, a Laurelorn God from 2nd Edition, and integrated them. The redacted refers to something that may or may not be relevant in DL.
 
Given that we have (rightly IMO) avoided any looting on this mission I wonder if Albericht has some loot we can claim. I don't imagine any magic items he might hold would be safe for use, but given his likely patron he is likely to have some appreciation for the finer things in life. It would be nice to come out of this with something besides a job well done, though of course I would not be overly sad if that is all we get. We do not need more fires to put out.
 
Sadly I don't think we are coming out of this with anything beyond potentially some future paper topics. Alberich is unlikely to have a ton of not tainted loot unless he popped out of the warp a while back and has been looting people in order to live a lavish lifestyle which his background didn't particularly seem to hint toward.

The whole mini adventure has been so fun I don't really care though. it really makes me wonder what the quest could have been like if we'd gone more of a traditional grey wizard route of hunting down cults and the like in the empire.
 
Now now, there is a nonzero chance we get another skull for our shelf.

Gotta humiliate that one Chosen by out-skulling him as a cowardly wizardling.
Are you referring to the Champion that almost killed Mathilde? I can guarantee you that he is not a Chosen. His power level was closer to an Exalted Champion. I would be embarrased for Mathilde if he was a Chosen. I would also question Khorne's priorities to be getting involved in a Chosen's fight. He has literally tens of thousands of them at any given point in time.

Now, if the guy was a dog, I can guarantee you Khorne would have been involved regardless of his importance or power level and there wouldn't be a -10 distracted penalty.
 
The whole mini adventure has been so fun I don't really care though. it really makes me wonder what the quest could have been like if we'd gone more of a traditional grey wizard route of hunting down cults and the like in the empire.
What I often wonder is what would have happened if at character creation Mathilde had been an Amethyst wizard. Or even a Muggle. In the later case, I imagine she would have stayed in the Empire instead of gallivanting to K8P.
 
What I often wonder is what would have happened if at character creation Mathilde had been an Amethyst wizard. Or even a Muggle. In the later case, I imagine she would have stayed in the Empire instead of gallivanting to K8P.
Not necessarily. There are plenty of non magic human warriors. Maybe you mean that she wouldn't have been fired by Roswita, and that is likely to be the case if things went the same way. But they wouldn't, because magicless Mathilde is not Mathilde. It's a wholly different character and a wholly different quest. No way to predict what would have happened because the same sequence of events is guaranteed to not happen.

I know that choosing Magic spent a significant amount of shinies at character creations, so magicless Mathilde would have had more traits than Mathilde with magic to compensate.
 
Not necessarily. There are plenty of non magic human warriors. Maybe you mean that she wouldn't have been fired by Roswita, and that is likely to be the case if things went the same way. But they wouldn't, because magicless Mathilde is not Mathilde. It's a wholly different character and a wholly different quest. No way to predict what would have happened because the same sequence of events is guaranteed to not happen.

I know that choosing Magic spent a significant amount of shinies at character creations, so magicless Mathilde would have had more traits than Mathilde with magic to compensate.

Sometimes I absurdly wish we had more than one Boney so that more quests based on the "roads not taken" at character generation for DL could be explored.

Sorry just an idle thought, I go back to lurking.
 
Are you referring to the Champion that almost killed Mathilde? I can guarantee you that he is not a Chosen. His power level was closer to an Exalted Champion. I would be embarrased for Mathilde if he was a Chosen. I would also question Khorne's priorities to be getting involved in a Chosen's fight. He has literally tens of thousands of them at any given point in time.

The old Eye of the Gods rules about Chaos Champions do have interesting implications.

I played one game where I had to deal with a 'Suddenly Daemon Prince' option with my high elves.
 
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The old Eye of the Gods rules about Chaos Champions do have interesting implications.
Isn't Eye of the Gods relevant after the unit champion won a duel? there is a jump between giving a blessing(...hopefully) after a successful dedication of victory to getting into a slugfest with another god in a still ongoing duel.
 
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