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I watched the video. If you match Demeter to Isha and Dionysus to Loec, then that drink would ironically be an Isha/Loec drink. Fun stuff.
I will admit that it sounds vile. The gods have terrible taste.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I watched the video. If you match Demeter to Isha and Dionysus to Loec, then that drink would ironically be an Isha/Loec drink. Fun stuff.
I will admit that it sounds vile. The gods have terrible taste.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
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It's not a question of infiltrators. The idea isn't that the Verenans would somehow sneak in - it's that they'd openly take up positions, then openly hire people who they felt were good fits and shared their values, and openly discourage people they felt disagreed with their values.
Nothing surreptitious involved at all, we'd be inviting them in.
Now I personally don't think we have to worry about that - we're going to be having a significant portion of dwarven librarians, scribes, etc. so at worst the Verenans will make up a minority of the starting body - but it's not an outlandish concept that people would encourage an organisation they were in a high-ranking position of to follow their god *cough* stirland watch *cough*.
dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
Slightly random, but in Article 13:
Its not super important, but I'm hoping someone can give some insight on this because its really bugging me now that I've noticed it.
the phrasing there feels weird to me, but that's the way its written in RoS, so maybe its just a structure that I haven't encountered before? "report them to the Holy Templars" would sound much more correct to me.
Its not super important, but I'm hoping someone can give some insight on this because its really bugging me now that I've noticed it.
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Holy Order of the Templars of Sigmar is their official name. That's the name of the Witch Hunter Order. Their full name is, and I quote, "Ancient Initiatic and Holy Order of the Templars of Sigmar". Tome of Salvation acts like the Order of the Silver Hammer (the initial pre Magnus Witch Hunter Order) and Holy Order of the Templars of Sigmar are separate groups, but the official army books only act as if it's one Order.
Don't even get me started on the structure of the Cult of Sigmar and their thousands of sects and bureucratic and officiary designations and roles. It's a mess.
I've checked the original and it's in there too. I think it's just a typo, I'll fix it in the threadmarked version of it.
dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
Its also written out in the update we discovered Eike's magic, if you're changing it
- Location
- Aotearoa
[X] Plan Compromise + Verenans
The White Raven 2
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The White Raven 2:
The White Raven was conflicted, as she so often was over the last two years.
To most people who knew of her, the White Raven was either a nuisance and a menace to be captured and locked up for daring to steal from the wealthy, or a hero to the poor and needy who provided for them when no one else would. Orphanages and homes of widows and the bereaved across Altdorf were inundated with offerings to help them survive through the winter and beyond over the last year, and they could not have been more grateful for who they considered to be their savior.
Raven wasn't so sure about that herself.
It was true that Raven had stolen from the rich and given to the poor for many years of her "career" as a thief and devotee of Ranald, but the latest influx of wealth and influence that she was utilising within her favored city was not the result of those heists. Instead, she acquired them from performing missions and tasks for none other than the Empress Heidi Haupt-Anderssen. Who happened to be a Ranaldite performing perhaps the riskiest and largest scale con she had ever heard of.
On one hand, it rankled her that she was working for the highest figure of authority in the Empire, and the fact that her jobs for her were providing so much more than Raven's solo ventures ever did. On the other, Raven's targets for scouting, spying, sabotage and theft to "acquire evidence" were carefully selected for individuals that she would feel no remorse for targeting, and she was doing far more to change the world than she ever had before.
A part of Raven was bothered by this. Ranald was not necessarily a Goddess that was opposed to authority in all its forms. She was a Goddess of Freedom from Oppression, not freedom for its own sake. The problem was that Raven knew full well that the Empire's society was not perfect, and she had experienced the gap between the wealthy and the poor, albeit not on the side that would paint her as righteous in the eyes of her current comrades. She knew that more could be done, that more should be done, to make sure that the Empire was truly as free of Oppression as Ranald, and Raven herself, would like it to be.
What bothered her was that Raven was indirectly endorsing that oppression in part by working for the highest level of authority who was enabling it. As if that wasn't enough, the time she spent working for Heidi, the secret meetings and conversations she held with her, had exposed a level of understanding of Imperial society that she had never known before, and she cursed her younger self for her naivety. Things weren't so simple as she had thought, and while a revolution might have sated the fires of her younger self's ambitions, those flames had been tempered with knowledge and experience.
Heidi was doing far more to change Imperial society than Raven had her entire life before she had joined the Empress' efforts. That was the result of having the power of authority, and it bothered her that she had to work within the flawed system itself so that she could fix it.
These musings were not so uncommon, but perhaps she was growing to accept her current lot in life, since the frequency of her doubts and concerns was growing lesser. Well, there was another factor to add to that, that made her concerns seem trivial.
Three months ago, Raven was sent to Marienburg to meet with the High Priest of Ranald's temple there. He was new to the post, and had apparently made some significant changes that Heidi wanted to check up on.
Things didn't go as she expected. She was sure Ranald was laughing her ass off.
—------
Marienburg was quite the busy city, full of a congested sort of life that could hardly be matched in any other settlement in the Old World. Traders, Coachmen, Bodyguards, Merchants, Protagonists, Entertainers and many others wandered the busy streets and crossed the sturdy and not so sturdy bridges between the islands and districts and wards to go to their set destination day and night. It was truly a city that never sleeps.
The downsides of a city that never sleeps could not be overstated when it comes to a high speed chase. Fortunately for both the White Raven and High Priest Hans von Kleptor, they were both Miracle Workers who could briefly walk on air, so that meant they weren't held back by normal human limitations.
Well, that was what Raven would have said, if she didn't crash to the floor into a pile of crates because the gaps between two of the buildings surpassed her expectation and she couldn't cross with one step.
"Ah shit!" Raven could barely make out Hans' exclamation from her collapse position on top of a broken crate of produce. She let out a barely audible groan amidst all the hubbub and echoes of voices from the crowds, some barely glancing at them and going on their way and a few who stopped briefly to take a look before moving on. Just another day in Marienburg.
'How had it come to this?' Raven wondered. While she would have appreciated a brief reprieve from all the chaos, she knew she couldn't take a break and simply got up from her collapsed position, groaning louder as she dusted away the rotten vegetation clinging to her suit. Next thing she knew, Hans dropped down on the ground in a graceful cat-like pounce. Raven could faintly feel Ranald's presence, and she could feel her Goddess' graceful laughter tinkling through her ears, amused at her folly.
"Shit. Bollocks. Gosh darn it. I didn't want to do this, but uh… we gotta go through the sewers." Hans looked from side to side to keep track of any pursuers as he hastily explained his newly formed plan.
Raven looked over. "What? I can still go roof hopping. I just wasn't used to the skyline of this damn city-"
"Well I can't trust that, can I? One mistake, shame on you, two mistakes it's shame on me. I know a good route. Just… don't freak out, alright?" Hans' worried look at her did not reassure Raven in the slightest, but they didn't have that much time left until Henschmann's henchmen would catch up to them.
She looked over and gave him a nod. Letting out a quiet sigh, Hans took on a focused cast as he waved his hands in an incantation that was vaguely familiar to her. Some sort of modified "Stealth of Ranald" she guessed. Raven made her own quick prayer, rubbing the silvered knucklebones set into her right hand glove and casting Bountiful Fortune on the two of them.
When two dedicated Priests of Ranald work together, it doesn't take much for them to succeed in whatever stealthy endeavor they set out to do against a horde of thugs and legbreakers. Without any particular difficulties, they escaped the notice of their followers and snuck into the sewers.
—---
Raven should perhaps be grateful that Marienburg's sewers did not smell as bad as Altdorf's, but that was a relatively low bar to clear. Their current position in the Suiddock was not as bad as the rumored Doodkanal, or so she assumed, but the smell was still noticeably awful. Thankfully Raven had experience holding her breath. Unfortunately that gave her no opportunity to harangue and question Hans von Kleptor on his frankly awful decision making skills and impulsivity, and where the hell were they going?
When Raven had agreed to go on this mission, she had expected some sort of idealistic youngster who was determined to change the city he lived in, and she got that. She did not realise that the plan he was concocting over the last few months with her help was to assassinate the boss of the largest local crime syndicate in one of the Old World's largest cities!
While Raven fumed behind Hans' back, the young man was focused on the route he was venturing through. The sewers were quite large, as they tended to be when constructed by Dwarfs in a city that used to belong to the Elves in their prime, when they had amassed a continent spanning seafaring empire. That size could lead someone to get lost, so he had to keep focus to track all the marks left by his… associates.
When Hans spotted the first of his associates within the sewers, he hurriedly raised his left hand to indicate Raven to halt in her steps, which she followed. The right hand he used to perform the secret signals confirming his identity and stating her current situation. Within the darkness, Hans could merely make out the corresponding signs, nod of confirmation, and the quick scurrying of the individual he was communicating with.
"What was that?" Came the hushed whisper of Raven's voice in a concerned, slightly alarmed matter. Hans cursed his impatience in the privacy of his own mind. If he had been more careful, he could have introduced his new ally to his older associates, but circumstances being as they were, he was in a tight spot.
"They're… allies. A group working in the sewers that I've been cooperating with over the last few years. They might look… scary, but don't worry. They're harmless. They're not what they look like."
If anything, Hans' words did little to reassure Raven. Words like that usually preceded the worst of heresies, and while Raven was not all that extreme, she knew very well what kind of horrific things could be hidden behind those words.
Sure enough, it only took a few minutes for a group of individuals to come and greet them. When they ventured into view, Raven's suspicions were met.
Mutants.
Gripping the pistol she held onto her leg holster tightly, Raven's voice came out stressed and firm. "You have 60 seconds to explain."
Hans gulped and whispered a prayer to Ranald. "Their mutations are cosmetic. They're good people, people who refused to join Koos the Mutant King in the Cursed Marshes and were hunted down for it. Sister Astrid, a Priestess of Shallya, saw them for who they truly were and granted them shelter at the White Chapel until she was found out by the Witch Hunters of the Star Chamber. She gave them over to me in the hopes that Ranald would save them when Shallya could not, and I would die before I prove her wrong."
Hans' impassioned speech and fierce glare at her was enough to take Raven aback. She looked over to the mutants she had seen and their concerned looks, moving back and forth between the two Ranaldites. Raven could see that none of their mutations were incredibly significant. A horn on one side of the head, a tail, sharp claws, purple skin. None of them had any more than one mutation, but she knew that looks could be deceiving and they could have more, merely pretending to be innocent. She was torn.
It was then that the divine spark she still held onto from her Bountiful Fortune flourished within her, and she felt Ranald's presence. Ranald was not one for direct contact usually, preferring cheeky, roundabout maneuvers and games. Here and now, however, she felt her presence loud and clear, and she could see more than she rightly should have.
She saw Sister Astrid praying to Shallya. She saw the Priestess casting her spells on the mutants to see if they were too far gone or corrupted, and how she came up empty. She saw the mutants asking for salvation and praying to the Gods of the Old World for salvation from the pain and suffering that they were subjected to through no fault of their own. She saw Hans coming to terms with all of this and accepting this burden when no one else would.
How could someone rightly call themselves a protector of the innocent if they weren't willing to give people a chance? Was it worth it to condemn the innocent for the simple chance that one of them would be guilty? Raven didn't know.
But perhaps she was willing to try.
AN: This kind of got away from me. I wanted to make a sequel to the White Raven omake I made a while ago and include a new character this time, Hans von Kleptor of Marienburg. Marienburg's an interesting city with tons of potential for exploration and complex shenanigans, but it's so overwhelming that I decided not to focus overmuch on the global scale and instead focus down on a story being told. I realised the further I was getting along that I was pushing away from DL stuff, but hey, I at least hope it's entertaining.
A lot of the stuff from this snippet is either taken or modified/adjusted/inspired from Sold Down the River. The guy who was assassinated is named Adalbert "Casanova" Henschmann, and by Ranaldite standards, he 100% deserved to die.
The White Raven was conflicted, as she so often was over the last two years.
To most people who knew of her, the White Raven was either a nuisance and a menace to be captured and locked up for daring to steal from the wealthy, or a hero to the poor and needy who provided for them when no one else would. Orphanages and homes of widows and the bereaved across Altdorf were inundated with offerings to help them survive through the winter and beyond over the last year, and they could not have been more grateful for who they considered to be their savior.
Raven wasn't so sure about that herself.
It was true that Raven had stolen from the rich and given to the poor for many years of her "career" as a thief and devotee of Ranald, but the latest influx of wealth and influence that she was utilising within her favored city was not the result of those heists. Instead, she acquired them from performing missions and tasks for none other than the Empress Heidi Haupt-Anderssen. Who happened to be a Ranaldite performing perhaps the riskiest and largest scale con she had ever heard of.
On one hand, it rankled her that she was working for the highest figure of authority in the Empire, and the fact that her jobs for her were providing so much more than Raven's solo ventures ever did. On the other, Raven's targets for scouting, spying, sabotage and theft to "acquire evidence" were carefully selected for individuals that she would feel no remorse for targeting, and she was doing far more to change the world than she ever had before.
A part of Raven was bothered by this. Ranald was not necessarily a Goddess that was opposed to authority in all its forms. She was a Goddess of Freedom from Oppression, not freedom for its own sake. The problem was that Raven knew full well that the Empire's society was not perfect, and she had experienced the gap between the wealthy and the poor, albeit not on the side that would paint her as righteous in the eyes of her current comrades. She knew that more could be done, that more should be done, to make sure that the Empire was truly as free of Oppression as Ranald, and Raven herself, would like it to be.
What bothered her was that Raven was indirectly endorsing that oppression in part by working for the highest level of authority who was enabling it. As if that wasn't enough, the time she spent working for Heidi, the secret meetings and conversations she held with her, had exposed a level of understanding of Imperial society that she had never known before, and she cursed her younger self for her naivety. Things weren't so simple as she had thought, and while a revolution might have sated the fires of her younger self's ambitions, those flames had been tempered with knowledge and experience.
Heidi was doing far more to change Imperial society than Raven had her entire life before she had joined the Empress' efforts. That was the result of having the power of authority, and it bothered her that she had to work within the flawed system itself so that she could fix it.
These musings were not so uncommon, but perhaps she was growing to accept her current lot in life, since the frequency of her doubts and concerns was growing lesser. Well, there was another factor to add to that, that made her concerns seem trivial.
Three months ago, Raven was sent to Marienburg to meet with the High Priest of Ranald's temple there. He was new to the post, and had apparently made some significant changes that Heidi wanted to check up on.
Things didn't go as she expected. She was sure Ranald was laughing her ass off.
—------
Marienburg was quite the busy city, full of a congested sort of life that could hardly be matched in any other settlement in the Old World. Traders, Coachmen, Bodyguards, Merchants, Protagonists, Entertainers and many others wandered the busy streets and crossed the sturdy and not so sturdy bridges between the islands and districts and wards to go to their set destination day and night. It was truly a city that never sleeps.
The downsides of a city that never sleeps could not be overstated when it comes to a high speed chase. Fortunately for both the White Raven and High Priest Hans von Kleptor, they were both Miracle Workers who could briefly walk on air, so that meant they weren't held back by normal human limitations.
Well, that was what Raven would have said, if she didn't crash to the floor into a pile of crates because the gaps between two of the buildings surpassed her expectation and she couldn't cross with one step.
"Ah shit!" Raven could barely make out Hans' exclamation from her collapse position on top of a broken crate of produce. She let out a barely audible groan amidst all the hubbub and echoes of voices from the crowds, some barely glancing at them and going on their way and a few who stopped briefly to take a look before moving on. Just another day in Marienburg.
'How had it come to this?' Raven wondered. While she would have appreciated a brief reprieve from all the chaos, she knew she couldn't take a break and simply got up from her collapsed position, groaning louder as she dusted away the rotten vegetation clinging to her suit. Next thing she knew, Hans dropped down on the ground in a graceful cat-like pounce. Raven could faintly feel Ranald's presence, and she could feel her Goddess' graceful laughter tinkling through her ears, amused at her folly.
"Shit. Bollocks. Gosh darn it. I didn't want to do this, but uh… we gotta go through the sewers." Hans looked from side to side to keep track of any pursuers as he hastily explained his newly formed plan.
Raven looked over. "What? I can still go roof hopping. I just wasn't used to the skyline of this damn city-"
"Well I can't trust that, can I? One mistake, shame on you, two mistakes it's shame on me. I know a good route. Just… don't freak out, alright?" Hans' worried look at her did not reassure Raven in the slightest, but they didn't have that much time left until Henschmann's henchmen would catch up to them.
She looked over and gave him a nod. Letting out a quiet sigh, Hans took on a focused cast as he waved his hands in an incantation that was vaguely familiar to her. Some sort of modified "Stealth of Ranald" she guessed. Raven made her own quick prayer, rubbing the silvered knucklebones set into her right hand glove and casting Bountiful Fortune on the two of them.
When two dedicated Priests of Ranald work together, it doesn't take much for them to succeed in whatever stealthy endeavor they set out to do against a horde of thugs and legbreakers. Without any particular difficulties, they escaped the notice of their followers and snuck into the sewers.
—---
Raven should perhaps be grateful that Marienburg's sewers did not smell as bad as Altdorf's, but that was a relatively low bar to clear. Their current position in the Suiddock was not as bad as the rumored Doodkanal, or so she assumed, but the smell was still noticeably awful. Thankfully Raven had experience holding her breath. Unfortunately that gave her no opportunity to harangue and question Hans von Kleptor on his frankly awful decision making skills and impulsivity, and where the hell were they going?
When Raven had agreed to go on this mission, she had expected some sort of idealistic youngster who was determined to change the city he lived in, and she got that. She did not realise that the plan he was concocting over the last few months with her help was to assassinate the boss of the largest local crime syndicate in one of the Old World's largest cities!
While Raven fumed behind Hans' back, the young man was focused on the route he was venturing through. The sewers were quite large, as they tended to be when constructed by Dwarfs in a city that used to belong to the Elves in their prime, when they had amassed a continent spanning seafaring empire. That size could lead someone to get lost, so he had to keep focus to track all the marks left by his… associates.
When Hans spotted the first of his associates within the sewers, he hurriedly raised his left hand to indicate Raven to halt in her steps, which she followed. The right hand he used to perform the secret signals confirming his identity and stating her current situation. Within the darkness, Hans could merely make out the corresponding signs, nod of confirmation, and the quick scurrying of the individual he was communicating with.
"What was that?" Came the hushed whisper of Raven's voice in a concerned, slightly alarmed matter. Hans cursed his impatience in the privacy of his own mind. If he had been more careful, he could have introduced his new ally to his older associates, but circumstances being as they were, he was in a tight spot.
"They're… allies. A group working in the sewers that I've been cooperating with over the last few years. They might look… scary, but don't worry. They're harmless. They're not what they look like."
If anything, Hans' words did little to reassure Raven. Words like that usually preceded the worst of heresies, and while Raven was not all that extreme, she knew very well what kind of horrific things could be hidden behind those words.
Sure enough, it only took a few minutes for a group of individuals to come and greet them. When they ventured into view, Raven's suspicions were met.
Mutants.
Gripping the pistol she held onto her leg holster tightly, Raven's voice came out stressed and firm. "You have 60 seconds to explain."
Hans gulped and whispered a prayer to Ranald. "Their mutations are cosmetic. They're good people, people who refused to join Koos the Mutant King in the Cursed Marshes and were hunted down for it. Sister Astrid, a Priestess of Shallya, saw them for who they truly were and granted them shelter at the White Chapel until she was found out by the Witch Hunters of the Star Chamber. She gave them over to me in the hopes that Ranald would save them when Shallya could not, and I would die before I prove her wrong."
Hans' impassioned speech and fierce glare at her was enough to take Raven aback. She looked over to the mutants she had seen and their concerned looks, moving back and forth between the two Ranaldites. Raven could see that none of their mutations were incredibly significant. A horn on one side of the head, a tail, sharp claws, purple skin. None of them had any more than one mutation, but she knew that looks could be deceiving and they could have more, merely pretending to be innocent. She was torn.
It was then that the divine spark she still held onto from her Bountiful Fortune flourished within her, and she felt Ranald's presence. Ranald was not one for direct contact usually, preferring cheeky, roundabout maneuvers and games. Here and now, however, she felt her presence loud and clear, and she could see more than she rightly should have.
She saw Sister Astrid praying to Shallya. She saw the Priestess casting her spells on the mutants to see if they were too far gone or corrupted, and how she came up empty. She saw the mutants asking for salvation and praying to the Gods of the Old World for salvation from the pain and suffering that they were subjected to through no fault of their own. She saw Hans coming to terms with all of this and accepting this burden when no one else would.
How could someone rightly call themselves a protector of the innocent if they weren't willing to give people a chance? Was it worth it to condemn the innocent for the simple chance that one of them would be guilty? Raven didn't know.
But perhaps she was willing to try.
AN: This kind of got away from me. I wanted to make a sequel to the White Raven omake I made a while ago and include a new character this time, Hans von Kleptor of Marienburg. Marienburg's an interesting city with tons of potential for exploration and complex shenanigans, but it's so overwhelming that I decided not to focus overmuch on the global scale and instead focus down on a story being told. I realised the further I was getting along that I was pushing away from DL stuff, but hey, I at least hope it's entertaining.
A lot of the stuff from this snippet is either taken or modified/adjusted/inspired from Sold Down the River. The guy who was assassinated is named Adalbert "Casanova" Henschmann, and by Ranaldite standards, he 100% deserved to die.
Reading a question like this makes me want to cry. Yes, this has been mentioned in the Father-Coin theories. I have mentioned this, and other things about Halétha, many many times. I'm not trying to be accusatory here, the thread is long and it's easy to miss things in the discussions, but it's sometimes dispiriting to realize how much of what I've been doing has gone unnoticed even by those that care about the subject.
Here is a summary I've made of the various theories and the evidence for them - check out Halétha's spoilr, Kupfer's comment is mentioned. Also see this post where I make the case for recruiting the Hedgewise. Part II of this post is an argument for Halétha being Ranald's daughter, which mentions Kupfer's comment. In my opinion, Halétha being connected to theft in a way that resembles Ranald would not be on it's own that good an indication that she is Ranald's daughter, but combined with the many other connections to Ranald she has and (the one connection to Shallya she has) makes her by far the leading candidate.
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That's just how it is sometimes. Sometimes you spend hours working on a post and it ends up garnering no discussion and the number of reactions makes you feel like the effort you put into it wasn't worth it. It is what it is. Happened to me a couple times before and I'm sure it'll continue to happen. Sometimes people don't have the time, energy, or desire to engage, or they see but offer no reassurance that they have done so, so it feels like what you've said goes by without anyone reading when people are in fact reading it, they just don't engage with it.
Not really anyone's fault.
I know. It's just...when someone doesn't care about Ranald's daughters it's whatever, you know? Disappointing, because the quest format means it makes me less likely to get to read about it, but nothing to be done. But when someone cares about the topic, or at least cares enough to ask a question, and that question indicates that they have never read what I've said on the subject, it makes me wonder why I bother. Sometimes I feel that maybe I've posted too much about this one thing that some people just don't care about, and then something like this comes along and I feel like I haven't posted enough.
Like I said before, I'm not blaming the poster that asked that question, or anyone else for that matter. It just sucks.
Dermonster
The Shittiest Wizard
[X] Plan Compromise
Why would there be a problem with Verena being involved in the K8P library?
As long as the library remains not inherently beholden to the cult itself (which it won't be since it is financed by Belegar and physically in K8P - the Dawi will hold to the charter Mathilde wrote under almost any circumstance) the Verenan presence is rather beneficial.
For the matter if Mathilde makes some trustworthy Verenan contacts we could even pass some copies of the Liber Mortis - I'm sure the main libraries of the Cult would like to have them.
[X] Plan Compromise + Verenans
Getting the experts in early so we're building on a solid foundation just makes sense.
Getting the experts in early so we're building on a solid foundation just makes sense.
The entire Verenan Stealth Institutional Capture seems pretty much completely nonsensical?
-Mathilde and Belegar has final say on who gets employed.
-The Verenans are religiously compelled to want in on the project.
-We want their expertise on a practical level, because they have the most experience outside dwarf loremasters in the library arts and dwarves strongly favor the "I know where everything in this library is, and my apprentice will know where everything in this library is before they can graduate" approach.
-Librarians do not grow on trees. Master librarians qualified to administer to a Great Library are almost all going to be currently employed under an existing library, and not really possible to uproot to interview at the ass end of nowhere involving months of hard travel.
What ACTUALLY happens then is the same as every other negotiation for onboarding:
-Verenans want:
--Rare books that only Mathilde has
--Some involvement in the library
--High level of involvement in the library
--Possible tasks that a Grey Lord Magister can do but Verenans are usually bad at.
-Mathilde wants:
--Verenan lore on the library sciences
--Rare books that only the Verenans have
--Maintain control over the library
--Possible hiring expert staff as advisor.
Theres no power they have over us to force us to give them hiring rights.
Most likely we'd want to trade for a Verenan Master Librarian's consultancy, and some of their rare books, while they want our rare books and for us to hire on some Verenans.
They want this more than we want them, so we have greater bargaining power - if they ask too much we'd just make it a book swap.
-Mathilde and Belegar has final say on who gets employed.
-The Verenans are religiously compelled to want in on the project.
-We want their expertise on a practical level, because they have the most experience outside dwarf loremasters in the library arts and dwarves strongly favor the "I know where everything in this library is, and my apprentice will know where everything in this library is before they can graduate" approach.
-Librarians do not grow on trees. Master librarians qualified to administer to a Great Library are almost all going to be currently employed under an existing library, and not really possible to uproot to interview at the ass end of nowhere involving months of hard travel.
What ACTUALLY happens then is the same as every other negotiation for onboarding:
-Verenans want:
--Rare books that only Mathilde has
--Some involvement in the library
--High level of involvement in the library
--Possible tasks that a Grey Lord Magister can do but Verenans are usually bad at.
-Mathilde wants:
--Verenan lore on the library sciences
--Rare books that only the Verenans have
--Maintain control over the library
--Possible hiring expert staff as advisor.
Theres no power they have over us to force us to give them hiring rights.
Most likely we'd want to trade for a Verenan Master Librarian's consultancy, and some of their rare books, while they want our rare books and for us to hire on some Verenans.
They want this more than we want them, so we have greater bargaining power - if they ask too much we'd just make it a book swap.
If you are only concerned that this vote would affect the influence of Verenan cults on the library primarily through librarians.
I think this means that this action will only get us access to books?
I don't doubt this has been asked before but is there a unique and setting-relevant warhammer explanation for this? Or is this just normal, real-world characterization-changing of gods?
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Ranald is known to manifest as a woman:
My personal interpretation is that they're genderfluid, and I choose to represent Raven as someone who has only seen Ranald's manifestation as a woman, just like Mathilde has only seen Ranald as (mostly) a man. Technically Mathilde sees Ranald as a cat, but you get what I mean.
And yeah it's been asked before after I wrote the first Raven omake. I don't expect everyone to read every single omake and the comments afterwards though.
- Location
- Greece
So I apologise if I got this wrong, as I get all my info from this thread, but...
Aren't Verenans like... extremely decentralized? Like, to the point 2 temples within the same city can have different interpretations of the strictures? And also reveling in it? How can they orchestrate a concerned effort for a takeover? Against an overt threat or something super obviously wrong, (e.g. chaos) they'd close ranks, yes, but I know how such organizations work (from sort of personal experience) and the library is neither of those things. They'd likely be working against each other rather than with each other, because they believe that the approach other Verenans use is "flawed" or "wrong".
Aren't Verenans like... extremely decentralized? Like, to the point 2 temples within the same city can have different interpretations of the strictures? And also reveling in it? How can they orchestrate a concerned effort for a takeover? Against an overt threat or something super obviously wrong, (e.g. chaos) they'd close ranks, yes, but I know how such organizations work (from sort of personal experience) and the library is neither of those things. They'd likely be working against each other rather than with each other, because they believe that the approach other Verenans use is "flawed" or "wrong".
- Location
- Finland
I don't think anyone expects, or is worried of, a concentrated take over.
Mostly it is just that if we recruit Verenans early on, then a sufficiently dedicated individual could easily lead to getting more people of similar mindset hired to a point where they can, if not dictate policy, then interpret it to sufficient degree that it barely matters.
I don't see this is a a major worry, and if that were to happen it would be an interesting plot to follow through.
But it is a legit one.
Mostly it is just that if we recruit Verenans early on, then a sufficiently dedicated individual could easily lead to getting more people of similar mindset hired to a point where they can, if not dictate policy, then interpret it to sufficient degree that it barely matters.
I don't see this is a a major worry, and if that were to happen it would be an interesting plot to follow through.
But it is a legit one.
- Location
- Denial
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think the issue is less that they engage in a concerted takeover and more that if we hire a Verenan who disagrees with the whole "Share knowledge freely to anyone" part of the library's goal and they get into a position of power they are naturally going to hire Verenans who think similarly and we end up with a chunk of our librarians disagreeing with one of the libraries goals. I don't think it's impossible myself but I also don't think it's likely and it really isn't a worry for this turn as we aren't recruiting any librarians with this action.
- Location
- Finland
Look, sometimes you just got to flaunt it.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
"Hans von Kleptor
The most prominent member of the cult is a powerful priest named Hans von Kleptor. Von Kleptor began his career as a wandering priest of Ranald. At first, he was little more than a petty criminal, until he had a vision of Ranald, who told him to spread the word about his nobler deeds. He made his way to Marienburg, and worked to expand the size and grandeur of the city's main temple to Ranald, the Gilt House. Handsome, charismatic, and charming to the extreme, many of Ranald's cultists believe he is the mortal son of Ranald himself. He pledges to increase the status of the cult within the Empire, pulling it out of the shadows into the light. However, his proclamations of freedom from tyranny and release from the power of nobles have drawn the wrath of those in power." Tome of Salvation 2nd Edition WFRP Page 50
The name's canon. Makes it even funnier.
