Romv
A Memory of TREES
"Her staff cut them like a hot knife through butter. The staff just sliced through. Really just cut through them like a scythe through wheat."
"So like a sw-"
"Staff, yes, like a staff does."
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
"So like a sw-"
"Staff, yes, like a staff does."
The thread would be able to decide on an approach after it's discovered what he's up to.
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Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Elspeth von Draken has a scythe for a staff. Maybe Mira can just say she was borrowing her girlfriend's staff to do the job.
- Location
- Utrecht
Step 1: get ourselves some fancy white robes and jewelry
Step 1.5: Enchant our robes and jewelry with glowing light
Step 2: Learn to fight on stilts
Step 3: Teach our shadow to hide
...
Profit?
The Light Order isn't even being subtle about their Waystone knowledge.
Wonder how K8P compares with Altdorf for Wizard tolerance.
A fragment of Cathay lore. Hopefully the first of many.
A sure sign that they are a civilised people.
…I got nothing. Google has nothing, aside from this thread.
Eh, Mathilde has been on the other side of this. Such as when the Metals wanted all that Skaven tech 'on behalf of the world' and she demanded their secrets in compensation.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Thanks for clarifying. So, Egrimm definitely thinks he's being denied promotion to remain Alric's minion, and has the magical chops and deeds to justify this position.
He will be grateful to us for getting him what he feels is already due, and would react badly if we somehow leaned on this gratitude to deny him what he thinks he's earned in the future. I'm not really sure how Mathilde would even do that, but it's something to look out for.
Borrowing your girlfriend's staff? Is that what you modern kids are calling dismounted swordplay?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[] Plan Simple Transaction
-[] Lady Magister Elrisse (2 Favours)
-[] Investigate Alric (2 Favours)
I like this one the most so far. I'm not entirely certain of spending favor capital to promote Egrimm for a few reasons. But if we do, then introductions to the Order of the Guardians is obvious.
-[] Lady Magister Elrisse (2 Favours)
-[] Investigate Alric (2 Favours)
I like this one the most so far. I'm not entirely certain of spending favor capital to promote Egrimm for a few reasons. But if we do, then introductions to the Order of the Guardians is obvious.
Contributions:
Favours:
Preliminary plan:
[ ] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (free)
[ ] Lord Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (1 Favour)
[ ] Lady Magister Elrisse (2 Favours)
-
[ ] Investigate Alric (2 Favours)
[ ] Introduction to the Order of Guardians (1 Favour)
Well worth it. Especially as it makes a clear distinction between Mathilde and Alric. Alric deliberately prevented Egrimm from advancing so as to maintain control of him. Mathilde is willing to spend political support to drag her friends and subordinates upwards.
While they might be useful later we are a long, long way from prototyping. We need info, not enchantments.
Need this one. This is precisely the what we came for.
Dangerous option. She is likely to be a full Matriarch before long and that would make the chain of command a bit… awkward.
Favours:
Really don't want to denounce someone without evidence. Being bad at your job is not a reason for official criticism by uninvolved parties.
An AP. A heavy price. But it is something we were considering doing on our own anyway.
Nope. Alric is, to the best of our knowledge, trying to restore his position by doing a Great Deed. I refuse to sabotage something that will be a major benefit to the Empire.
Sure. Networking is to the benefit of all involved.
…not keen. Spreading knowledge might be the aim but a one-way flow is very much not what we want.
Preliminary plan:
[ ] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (free)
[ ] Lord Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (1 Favour)
[ ] Lady Magister Elrisse (2 Favours)
-
[ ] Investigate Alric (2 Favours)
[ ] Introduction to the Order of Guardians (1 Favour)
- Location
- Utrecht
Engrimm just needs remember Mathilde's Dwarfish roots:
-A good turn does not go unrewarded, but a grudge will never be forgotten.
-Humans may bluff and bluster, but Longbeards don't. Listen when they speak and you won't go far wrong. (Mathilde's plaits are long enough
)
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So this is the criteria for promotion.
I think this is a good time to remind people that the spell Horstmann used to kill that Higher Daemon was most likely Banishment, a very high level Battle Magic spell, one of the harder ones to cast in its normal version, and he coordinated a three Journeymen Choir to do so. Magical ability isn't the only metric for determining who should be LM, but in that category at least Horstmann is set. He's already demonstrated magical ability worthy of an LM I think.
Other aspects? Experience wise I think he matches Mathilde. He's about the same age and was running around as Alric's troubleshooter for a while now. Loyalty? Despite absolutely hating Alric, Horstmann continued to work for him and be as loyal as he had to be until he was pulled out from Alric's grasp by someone else. Reliability? We don't have his record, but I believe that he's got that part covered considering the way he's generally portrayed as Alric's great contribution to Karag Dum (and he was worth it imo).
I think he deserves the rank.
Also, I went to the FAQ to check the requirements for LM and I don't remember these things being there before. I saw Boney's posts in thread about them, but it's nice to see the FAQ being added to. A reminder to check the FAQ every now and then, it's got some good information to be reminded of.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Yes, and if Alric manages to come back as MP it will blow up in our face. I think that investigating is safer, and we were planning to do that already so it costs us nothing.
That.
Agreed for the Guardians, but the access to KAU would put us in a weaker position for any further negotiations with the Light Order, and we don't really need that favour anyway.
I think knowledge is better. That's the very reason we're contacting the Order, after all.
We know no such thing. Boney said that his whole canon backstory was garbage, and that he's a different person in DL. But Boney also said he roled for Egrimm's allegiance, so it's possible he's secretly a cultist. For that reason I prefer not to make him a Lord Magister.
We also know he believes himself to deserve the rank, but we don't actually know if it's the case. IMO we should simply clear him for more information. That would also be enough to make Egrimm's opinion of us even better.
That's my favourite plan so far. Even if the Guardian part isn't necessary, it's still good for the Empire and the Karaz Ankor. It also possible the LO will owe us a favour, which can always be useful.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Just to point out that the rules for deployment mean that Stephen gets deployed separately from the unit. You might want to just have a minimum unit size and maximum unit size (4-19) like a normal unit does instead of this odd way of stating it where you specify ranks of 5. Also, I can't tell if you're trying to restrict formation too, but if you are, you might also want to specify that. Final thing, how would the choir interact with Banishment? The spell's whole shtick is that it gets more powerful per Light Wizard, so would the acolytes count up to a certain amount, or not at all?
I like the unit as a whole though. It's a very interesting set of mechanics.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
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- She/Her
I specified that only Stephen counted as a "Wizard". He benefits from Rank Bonus for casting the spell, but he's the only Light Wizard in the Unit for the purposes of spells like Banishment. Also, I don't know what you mean by separate deployment, I said that he must be deployed with the unit in question and that he can't leave the unit. I specify ranks of five in that a Unit only counts as a "Rank" if there are at least 5 models in it, at least for infantry. Maybe I should clarify that you don't to have exactly 5, you just need to have a minimum of five for it count as a rank.
I don't intend to restrict formations, but I wanted to clarify that if a rank lacks 5 models, they don't get the rank bonus. It's important for balance purposes.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Six pages of comments in eight hours. We are like starved animals in a feeding frenzy of discussion, aren't we. I'm just gonna post my first thoughts before diving in.
I don't want to know the results or modifiers or really any numbers involved in the rolls. I don't even want to know if there was one overarching roll or many cascading and interdependent ones. Just if sections such as the above are in fact adjudicated by rolls or if the favor price tags simply are based on Mira's needs. Because since the prices are already set it's not as if the rolls are all going to happen during actual on screen negotiations.
My thoughts on the options:
[ ] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (free)
It's free. No reason not to take it regardless of what else we choose.
Well... there might be technically a reason. But it's OOC and I'm not gonna give it any weight.
[ ] Lord Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (1 Favour)
I am very divided on this option. On the one hand I don't like fast tracking Magister careers due to favors among third parties. I already disliked that we inadvertently gave that to Max.
On the other hand hiring a Light LM next to him will mean that he will be quite overshadowed and also feels a bit unfair, though the Light LM in question wouldn't be a WEB-MAT member. And according to Egrimm he should already have been promoted. But that's according to Egrimm and with Alric pretty much out of the way he should be able to prove that fact on his own merits.
From a selfish/hypocritical yet not quite invalid angle, Mathilde benefits from the difference in rank between him and her. Who knows how long we can keep him around if even his own Patriarch felt the need to keep him on the mere Magister level in order to monopolize his services. Then again, freeing him was one of the inciting reasons that we hired him in the first place. Do we even want/need him as part of WEB-MAT in the long, post-Waystone, run?
[ ] Choirmaster Stephen (2 Favours)
Other than his specific skills in enchantment (which would make him juicy for WEB-MAT but that's not what we are recruiting him for), does he offer anything else? As is I don't know if I have reasons to be interested in him compared to the other options. Although, if a LM Egrimm does the secret insights part of the business, who knows, maybe it turns out that a Choir, even if it's just Hysh, can be quite useful during actual work on the Waystones. Maybe his techniques can be adapted and expanded with the help of Wind Herding and Elven support.
[ ] Lady Magister Elrisse (2 Favours)
Biggest access to secret knowledge and connections for the price. Though it might just be the potential for access, with Elrisse not being all too forthcoming when she's not sure it's for the benefit of the Light Order and the Empire.
@Boney Any chance we could get Egrimm's opinion on the personalities of Stephen and Elrisse?
[ ] Lady Magister Mira (4 Favours)
Not only is it damn pricy, it would also make her the senior ranking Imperial Human in the project. Soon she might even officially be a Matriarch. We had good reasons not to want Alric here and while Mira is no Alric, she's still someone who might pull the project into politics against our best interest.
[ ] Denounce Alric (1 Favour)
I don't want to denounce someone that high profile over what, from Mathilde's perspective, is ultimately hearsay. So I'm against doing this without any investigation.
[ ] Investigate Alric (2 Favours)
I kind of wanted to do this anyway.
[ ] Sabotage Alric (2 Favours)
Sabotaging an LM when we don't even know if his actions are ultimately for the benefit of the Empire is pretty bad.
[ ] Introduction to the Order of Guardians (1 Favour)
Is there a reason not to do this? I can't think of any. Mira seems smart enough to not screw around with Dwarven sensibilities.
Though this option does kind of make me regret that we never dove in deeper with them as we often talked about.
[ ] Permanent access to KAU (1 Favour)
Divided on this one. I am pretty determined to gain reciprocity and this would definitely make it harder. But it's also favor right now and we could buy reciprocity with a different and unrelated favor any time in the future. Let's say that I might approval vote plans that only work out smoothly due to this one extra point of favor, but only if the other acceptable sources are exhausted.
@Boney Can we bank any of this favor? I actually kind of hope not just for the sake of simplifying the thread discussion, even if banking it would of course be useful.
Hidden Waystones being specifically drained for Hysh through permanent and self-maintaining enchantments and Mira tries to pretend that the Light College doesn't know more than the diddly squat that the Grey knows. Good one.
This might be a faux pas but I'm just too curious and so I've got to try and ask: Were there any rolls involved in this?
I don't want to know the results or modifiers or really any numbers involved in the rolls. I don't even want to know if there was one overarching roll or many cascading and interdependent ones. Just if sections such as the above are in fact adjudicated by rolls or if the favor price tags simply are based on Mira's needs. Because since the prices are already set it's not as if the rolls are all going to happen during actual on screen negotiations.
Is this supposed to be "Can only be stacked with investigate Alric"? Because I assume they can all be stacked, no?
I also struggle with coming up with more Waystone related favors they can give us. But I potentially thought of one to offer. Aren't there any Grey Order secrets that Mathilde is authorized or potentially authorized to share? The Grey Order is poor on Waystone related stuff, but they've got to have some juicy magical insights over the centuries, no?
My thoughts on the options:
[ ] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (free)
It's free. No reason not to take it regardless of what else we choose.
Well... there might be technically a reason. But it's OOC and I'm not gonna give it any weight.
[ ] Lord Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (1 Favour)
I am very divided on this option. On the one hand I don't like fast tracking Magister careers due to favors among third parties. I already disliked that we inadvertently gave that to Max.
On the other hand hiring a Light LM next to him will mean that he will be quite overshadowed and also feels a bit unfair, though the Light LM in question wouldn't be a WEB-MAT member. And according to Egrimm he should already have been promoted. But that's according to Egrimm and with Alric pretty much out of the way he should be able to prove that fact on his own merits.
From a selfish/hypocritical yet not quite invalid angle, Mathilde benefits from the difference in rank between him and her. Who knows how long we can keep him around if even his own Patriarch felt the need to keep him on the mere Magister level in order to monopolize his services. Then again, freeing him was one of the inciting reasons that we hired him in the first place. Do we even want/need him as part of WEB-MAT in the long, post-Waystone, run?
[ ] Choirmaster Stephen (2 Favours)
Other than his specific skills in enchantment (which would make him juicy for WEB-MAT but that's not what we are recruiting him for), does he offer anything else? As is I don't know if I have reasons to be interested in him compared to the other options. Although, if a LM Egrimm does the secret insights part of the business, who knows, maybe it turns out that a Choir, even if it's just Hysh, can be quite useful during actual work on the Waystones. Maybe his techniques can be adapted and expanded with the help of Wind Herding and Elven support.
[ ] Lady Magister Elrisse (2 Favours)
Biggest access to secret knowledge and connections for the price. Though it might just be the potential for access, with Elrisse not being all too forthcoming when she's not sure it's for the benefit of the Light Order and the Empire.
@Boney Any chance we could get Egrimm's opinion on the personalities of Stephen and Elrisse?
[ ] Lady Magister Mira (4 Favours)
Not only is it damn pricy, it would also make her the senior ranking Imperial Human in the project. Soon she might even officially be a Matriarch. We had good reasons not to want Alric here and while Mira is no Alric, she's still someone who might pull the project into politics against our best interest.
[ ] Denounce Alric (1 Favour)
I don't want to denounce someone that high profile over what, from Mathilde's perspective, is ultimately hearsay. So I'm against doing this without any investigation.
[ ] Investigate Alric (2 Favours)
I kind of wanted to do this anyway.
[ ] Sabotage Alric (2 Favours)
Sabotaging an LM when we don't even know if his actions are ultimately for the benefit of the Empire is pretty bad.
[ ] Introduction to the Order of Guardians (1 Favour)
Is there a reason not to do this? I can't think of any. Mira seems smart enough to not screw around with Dwarven sensibilities.
Though this option does kind of make me regret that we never dove in deeper with them as we often talked about.
[ ] Permanent access to KAU (1 Favour)
Divided on this one. I am pretty determined to gain reciprocity and this would definitely make it harder. But it's also favor right now and we could buy reciprocity with a different and unrelated favor any time in the future. Let's say that I might approval vote plans that only work out smoothly due to this one extra point of favor, but only if the other acceptable sources are exhausted.
@Boney Can we bank any of this favor? I actually kind of hope not just for the sake of simplifying the thread discussion, even if banking it would of course be useful.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
I hope I'm not the only person sketched out by Mira wanting us to sabotage Alric?
Sure she paints a picture of him doing compromising things but fundamentally I think that's self serving bullshit she's using because she wants to shore up her own political position.
I'm perfectly willing to investigate Alric and give her an introduction the guardians but sabotaging Alric when we've no indication thus far that he's doing anything other than trying to stomp out something dark and rotten to fix his damaged reputation would be utterly wrong and harmful to the empire as a whole. Internal politicking is no excuse to give chaos cultists and others a helping hand.
Sure she paints a picture of him doing compromising things but fundamentally I think that's self serving bullshit she's using because she wants to shore up her own political position.
I'm perfectly willing to investigate Alric and give her an introduction the guardians but sabotaging Alric when we've no indication thus far that he's doing anything other than trying to stomp out something dark and rotten to fix his damaged reputation would be utterly wrong and harmful to the empire as a whole. Internal politicking is no excuse to give chaos cultists and others a helping hand.
- Location
- Utrecht
Remaining to place: Gharad the Ox, or Ragnar Painbringer, or Kastragar, or Zorastra or Harald Hammerstorm
The One Settra killed:
In 666 IC: A host of Daemons invades Nehekhara, and Settra's army is hard pressed to halt the onslaught. Aid arrives when a High Elf army, led by Prince Stormrider, offers an alliance. The spears of the Glittering Host and the Golden Army fight side by side, and the Daemons are vanquished before Nagash's Black Pyramid
Khagul Bloodfist
Valgar the Butcher defeated Settra, and took Khagul Bloodfist stole his crown. Settra then went North with his Armies and killed the guy. I theorize he was a nascent everchosen.
Settra was awake from -1151 to 2522 IC, so the Everchosen could literally be any one from 3-10.
Personally, I think it would have been one in the 3-6 Range, from before the founding of Bretonnia.
| 1 | Morkar | Sigmar |
| 2 | Vangel | Gromrir Goldfist |
| 3 | ||
| 4 | ||
| 5 | ||
| 6 | ||
| 7 | ||
| 8 | ||
| 9 | ||
| 10 | ||
| 11 | Repanse (born 1991, A chaos invasion happened in 2007 brettonnia) | |
| 12 | Asavar Kul | |
| 13 | ?? (Canonically, Archaeon) |
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Codex
Fantasy Addict
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Harald comes back in the End Times so he can get killed by Mannfred or something, so at least in canon he probably wasn't an Everchosen, since I don't think an Everchosen stops being an Everchosen unless they die. Maybe Boney would just ignore that, but personally I like Harry.
He's so silly. I like him.
Oh yeah no question about it, she is a stone cold political operator whom I trust less than Heidi.... but on the other hand I think Alric is a useless has been who never should have been given a leadership position after the Night of a Thousand Arcane Duels. All other complications aside if there was right now a bottom Mathilde could press to make Alaric trip going down some stairs and break his neck I would vote to press it
FlyingScanian
Tea Addict
- Location
- Land of Eternal Night
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I just want to point out that "Sabotaging Alric" could be "swooping in and destroying the Chaos Cult he's been eyeing before he gets to it". One chaos cult removed, and he gets none of the glory
(And I give it 50/50 someone else has already either pointed out this, or pointed out that it won't work, this is thread right after an update)
That said, I'm probably in favor of just spying (and arranging a meeting with Gunnars)
(And I give it 50/50 someone else has already either pointed out this, or pointed out that it won't work, this is thread right after an update)
That said, I'm probably in favor of just spying (and arranging a meeting with Gunnars)
- Location
- Utrecht
We also don't know if she's the one that came up with the options for us to choose from.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
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- She/Her
Sisters of the Thorn in Athel Loren are a Coven of Warriors who can cast spells in unison, specifically Shield of Thorns from the Lore of Life and Curse of Anraheir from Lore of Beasts. Dark Elves have Doomfire Warlocks, who cast Doombolt (Dark Magic) and Soulblight (Lore of Death). I don't know if Laurelorn have these covens, and mechanically the Asur don't have covens.
She is at the very least the sort of person who would accept the trade, so yeah I am going to stick with stone cold politician.