Conditionals means Mira still has to have resources ready in case the condition doesn't occur. The ostensible framing of this negotiation is that of course she wants to help, but she needs Mathilde's help to free up the resources to do so, so she needs to know now how much Mathilde can contribute.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Asheram
Not quite altogether
- Location
- Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
Bit late to the party and most things have been said already, but one of the core things about Alric is that while he's a great wizard, he's a terrible leader. Mira here has been the administrative leader for years while Alric has enjoyed dictating policy with none of the actual work involved in leadership.
It also doesn't help that he seems to be, according to Egrimm, the type of leader who enjoys politicking along with cronyism instead of encouraging good meritocracy.
On the subject of raising Egrimm to Lord Magister, I fear that this would put us, in his mind, close to Alric as the type of cronyism he'd participate in. If anything, we should confer with him before putting that into motion.
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- Location
- Aotearoa
I wonder how does Mathilde think Egrimm would react to such promotion-facilitation?
Or Alric is simply out of the question (since Mira isn't exactly going to promote him) and Mira herself isn't formally cleared for all the info.
He seems to believe himself to have already earned the rank, and that it was denied to him because Alric wants him to remain his personal troubleshooter.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The wording is that Elrisse is cleared for more information than any other living Light Wizard, not that she's cleared to have more information than any other living Light Wizard who we have the ability to work with.
Yeah, in that case I will definitely vote to give him the rank to help secure his allegiance to the Project and Mathilde personally. Also it is worth keeping in mind that having two LMs involved with Web-Mat will give the branch more legitimacy than just the one.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
@Boney I checked my College Rolodex and I listed Choirmaster Stephen as a Magister a while ago. I just want to make sure, because it seems like he's basically LM level, is he a Magister or an LM? I assume him being the most proficient enchanter and ritualist and the most notable Choirmaster probably puts him at LM tier, but I want to make sure.
I'm thinking of making changes to the Dex with the changes happening to the Light Order.
I'm thinking of making changes to the Dex with the changes happening to the Light Order.
One thing I think we should be cautious of is Denounce, specifically if we stack it with investigation or sabotage because by definition the former is public, it will set Alaric on his guard against our meddling. Given that investigation gives us more bang for our buck and that we have already started on it I think we should take that.
So Alric has been a catastrophe for every leadership role he's held. For the Empire, let's just stop him.
[ ] Plan Steal His Credit, Take His Wizards
-[ ] Investigate Alric (2 Favours)
-[ ] Sabotage Alric (2 Favours)
-[ ] Introduction to the Order of Guardians (1 Favour)
-[ ] Lady Magister Elrisse (2 Favours)
-[ ] Choirmaster Stephen (2 Favours)
-[ ] Lord Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (1 Favour)
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He's a Magister, but he's also a Choirmaster. To Lights that means more than the Lord Magister rank, which is why he's identified primarily as such. The Lights have something of a habit of paying more attention to their own internal titles than the universal ones of the Colleges.
I was going to write an analysis but looks like I was beaten to the punch. I agree with basically all of this, except some of the conclusions.
I want Lady Magister Elrisse and Choirmaster Stephen, and I'm not willing to sabotage or denounce Alric. Here's my reasoning:
-Getting so involved in the power struggles of the light order, and so publically, seems like a really bad idea. And if Alric is sabotaged after we denounce him he will be able to put two and two together.
-Elrisse gives us access to the information, Stephen is an expert of enchantment and rituals, which I feel covers all our bases quite nicely.
-Mira is going to be useful, but is problematic for the reasons Hydroplatypus described. I'm also wary of making the Magister Matriarch of another college so personally involved - right now this is a grey college project, headed by a grey LM, and introudcing someone who outranks us from a different college might cause political complications later.
-Getting Horstmann promoted I don't like at all. Yes, he feels he already earned it, but we don't know if that's true, and I'll feel real silly if our word is the one that gets someone unworthy promoted. Recall that using a great deed can have the 'loyalty' requirment waived, which risks making someone not fully trustworthy LM, and I imagine this option can do something similar. That's not metagaming, by the way. I feel like people sometimes over correct for their meta knowledge of Horstmann and assume that treating him with any suspicion is bad. Treat him with at least as much skepticism as we did Johann way back in the K8P expedition.
So, we're short one favour. Unless someone can come up with a favour we can do the light college, I think we should take the library favour. Yes, it means the library will have a hard time getting access to the light college library, but you know what? It's a personal sacrifice by Mathilde for this project, and not a political maneuver which may or may not be good for the empire and the colleges.
Also, this favour (and to a lesser extent the introduction to the order of guardians) means the light college has reason to become more involved with K8P. The light college is currently the only one with no presence in what has become the Karak of wizards. Let's change that.
[] Plan Knowledge for Knowledge
-[ ] Choirmaster Stephen (2 Favours)
-[ ] Lady Magister Elrisse (2 Favours)
-[ ] Investigate Alric (2 Favours)
-[ ] Introduction to the Order of Guardians (1 Favour)
-[ ] Permanent access to KAU (1 Favour)
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Kinruush
Who?
- Location
- USA
To add to this, if it were to occur that Mathilde discovers Alric is hunting a chaos cult, the way to sabotage Alric isn't to let the cult go, it's to beat him to the punch and take all the credit.
- Location
- Utrecht
Necrarchogwarts - check
Tzeentchogwarts - ??
NuclearConsensus
Herald of the Thorned One
- Location
- the Philippines
Actually, in this scenario, if at all possible I'd like to contrive a way for Mira to take the credit, since it shores up her position, might mean she owes us one, and redirects Alric's attention towards her instead of to Mathilde.
Or Egrimm! Or, indeed, Egrimm cheerfully quoting orders from Mira, and making no mention of Mathilde.
Perfect excuse to finally get him that Lord Magister promotion, too.
- Location
- Utrecht
Illusions.
Everyone agrees that Mira was the one to smack the cultists with dazzling staff-play.
---
Funny thought: Mathilde develops a new hobby of foiling Alric, and a dynamic similar to Turner-Dinkleberg forms between Alric and Mirathilde.
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- Location
- Aotearoa
I see. Thanks. That changes the complexion slightly.
Though... it seems unlike Egrimm, Mira isn't 100% convinced he's ready, in that she would need our endorsement before throwing her weight behind a promotion push. On which of the four criteria would be vouching for him? Loyalty? Reliability?
- Location
- USA
I thought that a Lord/Lady Magister-to-be requires some kind of Grandmasterpiece as part of the promotion process? Does he have one?
I suspect you may be overthinking how much Myra wants to be fair. She is a politician looking to destroy a long time rival and that promotion is one more thing she can dangle over our heads to get what she wants. Why should be just promote him for free when she can profit from doing it?
That dead Higher Daemon would qualify.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ah, that is quite informative. Speaking of, I got a burst of inspiration and made a statblock for Stephen and his choir. I wanted your opinion on how I portrayed the Choir, because there's very little portrayal of how the Choir works in any official material:
Stephen:
Troop Type: Infantry (Special Character)
Magic: Choirmaster Stephen is a Level 3 Wizard who uses spells from the Lore of Light, but he has unique rules to represent the Choir. For each rank of 5 or more models in his unit, Stephen adds +1 to casting and dispelling rolls, up to a maximum of +3.
Special Rules:
Choir of Acolytes: Stephen has a number of special rules to represent the Choir that he's a part of. While Stephen is a character, the Choir is a Special unit choice that he must be deployed with. He may not leave this unit for any reason, and if he were to die, then all the Acolytes would be removed as casualties. The Unit of Acolytes has a minimum of 4 models and a maximum of 19 models, not including Stephen.
As mentioned above, the Choir adds a bonus to Stephen's casting and dispelling attempts in the Magic phase, but they do not count as Wizards individually, only Stephen does. This means that all spells must be cast through Stephen and through his line of sight. When a miscast occurs, do not roll on the Miscast table. Instead, deal D6 Strength 10 hits to the Choir, distributed as for shooting. At least one of those hits must be allocated to Stephen. One of the Acolytes may be upgraded to a Musician, and another can be upgraded to a Standard Bearer. Stephen counts as the Unit Champion.
Guardians of Light: The Light Order are trained to deal with fear in the face of adversity. All failed Psychology tests caused by Daemons, Undead or Nehekharan Undead are rerolled, and when fighting units with those rules, the Choir counts as Stubborn.
Chants of the Choir: In addition to the regular spells that Choirmaster Stephen has access to, the Choir has two Innate Bound Spells with a Power Level of 3. They are as follows:
Protective Chant: Augment Spell. Choirmaster Stephen and his Choir have a 5+ Ward Save until the start of the next friendly magic phase
Healing Chant: Augment Spell. The Choir heals a friendly unit within 6" for D3 wounds lost earlier in the game, including slain models.
Purifying Light: The Choir is capable of making a shooting attack during the Shooting Phase. This attack has a range of 18" and a Strength of 3 and counts as a magical attack. It requires line of sight and to be in the forward firing arc as normal for shooting attacks, and is subject to all the rules for shooting. The difference is that the number of shots is determined differently. For each full rank of at least 5 models, D3 shooting attacks are dealt, up to a maximum of 3d3. Against Undead, Nehekharan Undead and Daemons, the shooting attack is dealt at Strength 4 and deals double the number of hits that it would normally do. This special shooting attack can be used to Stand and Shoot.
Equipment: The Acolytes are only armed with hand weapons and may not wear armor, use shields or be upgraded to use different weapons. Only Choirmaster Stephen has special equipment.
Magic Items:
Amulet of Warding: This talisman protects Stephen from creatures of darkness. All models with the Undead, Nehekharan Undead or Daemonic special rules take an automatic Strength 5 hit at the start of the Close Combat phase before any attacks are resolved if they are in base contact with Choirmaster Stephen.
Circlet of Clarity: Magic Armor. This circlet is particularly effective at revealing the unseen. No model with the Scouts special rule may deploy within 20" of Choirmaster Stephen. In addition, any Hidden unit within 12" of Stephen must be revealed. If a Unit is in close combat with Stephen, then at the start of the Close Combat phase, all magical items the unit has must be revealed.
Staff of Tactical Retreat: Arcane Item. This staff was made by Stephen for emergencies. One use per game. This staff may be used at any point in which Stephen is alive and his unit is about to flee. Activating it makes it so that no unit may pursue Stephen or his Choir, and that their flee distance is equal to 3D6, discarding the lowest result. Stephen and his choir also pass any Dangerous Terrain tests they have to take, and they can move through hostile units without being wiped out for that phase only. Panic tests don't have to be taken, thanks to the incredible speed in which things occur leaving little room for reaction.
Average Acolyte:
| M | WS | BS | S | T | W | I | A | Ld |
| 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 1 | 8 |
Magic: Choirmaster Stephen is a Level 3 Wizard who uses spells from the Lore of Light, but he has unique rules to represent the Choir. For each rank of 5 or more models in his unit, Stephen adds +1 to casting and dispelling rolls, up to a maximum of +3.
Special Rules:
Choir of Acolytes: Stephen has a number of special rules to represent the Choir that he's a part of. While Stephen is a character, the Choir is a Special unit choice that he must be deployed with. He may not leave this unit for any reason, and if he were to die, then all the Acolytes would be removed as casualties. The Unit of Acolytes has a minimum of 4 models and a maximum of 19 models, not including Stephen.
As mentioned above, the Choir adds a bonus to Stephen's casting and dispelling attempts in the Magic phase, but they do not count as Wizards individually, only Stephen does. This means that all spells must be cast through Stephen and through his line of sight. When a miscast occurs, do not roll on the Miscast table. Instead, deal D6 Strength 10 hits to the Choir, distributed as for shooting. At least one of those hits must be allocated to Stephen. One of the Acolytes may be upgraded to a Musician, and another can be upgraded to a Standard Bearer. Stephen counts as the Unit Champion.
Guardians of Light: The Light Order are trained to deal with fear in the face of adversity. All failed Psychology tests caused by Daemons, Undead or Nehekharan Undead are rerolled, and when fighting units with those rules, the Choir counts as Stubborn.
Chants of the Choir: In addition to the regular spells that Choirmaster Stephen has access to, the Choir has two Innate Bound Spells with a Power Level of 3. They are as follows:
Protective Chant: Augment Spell. Choirmaster Stephen and his Choir have a 5+ Ward Save until the start of the next friendly magic phase
Healing Chant: Augment Spell. The Choir heals a friendly unit within 6" for D3 wounds lost earlier in the game, including slain models.
Purifying Light: The Choir is capable of making a shooting attack during the Shooting Phase. This attack has a range of 18" and a Strength of 3 and counts as a magical attack. It requires line of sight and to be in the forward firing arc as normal for shooting attacks, and is subject to all the rules for shooting. The difference is that the number of shots is determined differently. For each full rank of at least 5 models, D3 shooting attacks are dealt, up to a maximum of 3d3. Against Undead, Nehekharan Undead and Daemons, the shooting attack is dealt at Strength 4 and deals double the number of hits that it would normally do. This special shooting attack can be used to Stand and Shoot.
Equipment: The Acolytes are only armed with hand weapons and may not wear armor, use shields or be upgraded to use different weapons. Only Choirmaster Stephen has special equipment.
Magic Items:
Amulet of Warding: This talisman protects Stephen from creatures of darkness. All models with the Undead, Nehekharan Undead or Daemonic special rules take an automatic Strength 5 hit at the start of the Close Combat phase before any attacks are resolved if they are in base contact with Choirmaster Stephen.
Circlet of Clarity: Magic Armor. This circlet is particularly effective at revealing the unseen. No model with the Scouts special rule may deploy within 20" of Choirmaster Stephen. In addition, any Hidden unit within 12" of Stephen must be revealed. If a Unit is in close combat with Stephen, then at the start of the Close Combat phase, all magical items the unit has must be revealed.
Staff of Tactical Retreat: Arcane Item. This staff was made by Stephen for emergencies. One use per game. This staff may be used at any point in which Stephen is alive and his unit is about to flee. Activating it makes it so that no unit may pursue Stephen or his Choir, and that their flee distance is equal to 3D6, discarding the lowest result. Stephen and his choir also pass any Dangerous Terrain tests they have to take, and they can move through hostile units without being wiped out for that phase only. Panic tests don't have to be taken, thanks to the incredible speed in which things occur leaving little room for reaction.
Average Acolyte:
| M | WS | BS | S | T | W | I | A | Ld |
| 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 1 | 3 | 1 | 7 |
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In my head a Choir is like a Communion from the Dominions games, with the leader getting power from the others and the others suffering the exhaustion and backlash for them. This is probably the best way to translate that to the tabletop.
- Location
- Austria
Sabotage and denouncement are too far, too much. If nothing else, we risk our own reputation with our own Order by these steps. Other Greys will not like this.
Other options are fine, Library one is bad if we want a more equal arrangement later.
So, 3 favours from investigation and introduction to Guardians.
Yeah, I think I just agree with this vote:
Other options are fine, Library one is bad if we want a more equal arrangement later.
So, 3 favours from investigation and introduction to Guardians.
Yeah, I think I just agree with this vote:
- Location
- South Africa
@Boney are you able to give any sort of insight on the nature of the sabotage that Mathilde will be potentially committing e.g. ensure Alric's project doesn't succeed, ensuring that success won't result in a wave of glory for Alric to ride.
If you can't give any information that is fine.
Alternatively (thus might be gaming the system, in which case please ignore) but could we promise to sabotage the political side (or similar) of Alrics project for one favour?
If you can't give any information that is fine.
Alternatively (thus might be gaming the system, in which case please ignore) but could we promise to sabotage the political side (or similar) of Alrics project for one favour?
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