I have not had time to read thread discussion but my first thought is that sabotage seems like an easy way to get another title drop. Sure there is an ok chance Alric is doing politics or something net neutral to the empire but there is just as good of a chance he is doing something that will help the empire. In which case directly sabotaging him would be treasonous. Now if that comes up there are probably still non treasonous ways of proceeding but it seems like it's just setting up for a major conflict of interest.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Re: rolls, if I wanted a roll to be revealed or would be in the post.
Re: stacking, no, it was to make it clear you could get 4 Favors by investigating and sabotaging.
Re: Egrimm's opinions, Mathilde can't check out of the conversation for a couple of days to go back to Laurelorn to ask him.
Re: banking favour, no.
- Location
- Poland
I feel that committing to sabotage without knowing what Alric is up to is a dangerous game to play. We might consider him a lacklustre leader, but if he is working to the benefit of the empire *at best* we waste resources one-upping him/beating him to the punch, and at worst we need to choose between renegading the deal or outright doing something detrimental to the empire. Meanwhile investigation not only makes sense in the context of expectations towards Grey Magisters, it also allows us to indirectly investigate the prospective Matriach based on how she acts upon the results of our investigation. Unless Alric is up to something nefarious we'll be able to tell if she is willing to work to the detriment of the Empire if it advances her position. For the same reason I would like to avoid denouncement, doing things like this as political payment is a precedent I wouldn't like to set, especially since it might effect our reputation negatively if Alric pulls off some splendid great deed afterwards.
On the flip side I like the idea of a "glowing letter of recommendation" for Egrimm, ignoring meta knowledge from the canon timeline I don't see any reason for Mathilde to doubt him. If possible I would prefer if, were it to come up, we made it clear we don't expect him to owe us for this, we simply expect that he will be able to do far more good for the Empire with access to a Lord Magister's resources (be it working with us or elsewhere).
Lastly, the library thing. If we consider the library a simple means to an end, and a toll/bargaining chip for us to use? Well enough. If it's something we consider to be of immense innate value to the ongoing struggle to protect the world against the nefarious force of the week, well, I don't think we should sabotage it in any way for any negotiation that comes our way.
On the flip side I like the idea of a "glowing letter of recommendation" for Egrimm, ignoring meta knowledge from the canon timeline I don't see any reason for Mathilde to doubt him. If possible I would prefer if, were it to come up, we made it clear we don't expect him to owe us for this, we simply expect that he will be able to do far more good for the Empire with access to a Lord Magister's resources (be it working with us or elsewhere).
Lastly, the library thing. If we consider the library a simple means to an end, and a toll/bargaining chip for us to use? Well enough. If it's something we consider to be of immense innate value to the ongoing struggle to protect the world against the nefarious force of the week, well, I don't think we should sabotage it in any way for any negotiation that comes our way.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
She's a Lady Magister, and currently Matriarch of the Light Order as a whole. They don't have a vow of poverty like the Grey Order does, so odds are that the status of her personal treasury is 'Yes'. Wizards can get all kinds of outrageously rich once they're no longer paying off their apprenticeships, as seen with Mathilde.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Characters get deployed after all units. Even if they're forced to be deployed in a particular one. It's part of the basic rules.
Ok, but it's a really weird way of putting it. The basic rules define a rank already, so specifying the ranks you need to deploy the unit, rather than just the number of models feels very weird.
I feel like you covered that with the rules for when they get to add bonuses. My problem was with the bit where it specifies deployment rules in ranks and not the rules for when they get bonuses to casting and dispelling.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If that's the problem, then i reworded this section:
To be honest, the reason I went into detail on what constituted a rank is because I think the majority of the thread don't know how many models constitute a rank on the tabletop. I try to make my descriptions simple but also make it understandable for someone who doesn't play the game, but maybe that's a fool's errand. I don't know how many people who don't know the rules for WHF read my statblocks.
- Location
- Utrecht
It also varies per Edition. I heard 7e went from 4 to 5.
Choirs are a way for multiple weak casters to combine their efforts to great effect.
Unlike humans who cultivate even the smallest scrap of talent, elves generally only bother learning magic if they have significant potential. Thus they have a lower proportion of weak casters.
Elves are also insanely prideful. They would be reluctant to use such a technique even if they knew it. The exceptions are a religious order and glorified curse-slaves.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
If we want to steal Alric's thunder, all we have to do is set the Coin to Protector and then beat him to the punch. If we really wanted to get cheeky, Protector works for aliases and alter-egos too, so it doesn't even have to be tied to us if we don't want it to be.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
My thoughts on what plan to go for.
[ ] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (free)
If nothing else, Mira would allow Egrimm access to some of the inherited secrets of the Order of Light on the weight of Mathilde's deeds and reputation alone.
[ ] Lady Magister Elrisse (2 Favours)
The Porter equivalent of the Light Order, Lady Magister Elrisse's loyalty to the Order and to the Empire is unimpeachable, and she is cleared for more access to information than any other living Light Wizard.
[ ] Investigate Alric (2 Favours)
Promise to personally investigate what Alric is up to in Talabecland, and to inform Mira of all the details.
Investigating Alric was something we were leaning towards anyways - I'd be willing to do so personally and take that risk for getting the most-informed Light Wizard we can on board. We've still got the Jade Order to sway, so we don't wantto overcommit, but getting an expert in and Egrimm upgraded - if not promoted - is still a big jump. If he wants his promotion, he can earn it himself - I don't see why we'd open our library or publically denounce Alric for him.
[ ] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (free)
If nothing else, Mira would allow Egrimm access to some of the inherited secrets of the Order of Light on the weight of Mathilde's deeds and reputation alone.
[ ] Lady Magister Elrisse (2 Favours)
The Porter equivalent of the Light Order, Lady Magister Elrisse's loyalty to the Order and to the Empire is unimpeachable, and she is cleared for more access to information than any other living Light Wizard.
[ ] Investigate Alric (2 Favours)
Promise to personally investigate what Alric is up to in Talabecland, and to inform Mira of all the details.
Investigating Alric was something we were leaning towards anyways - I'd be willing to do so personally and take that risk for getting the most-informed Light Wizard we can on board. We've still got the Jade Order to sway, so we don't wantto overcommit, but getting an expert in and Egrimm upgraded - if not promoted - is still a big jump. If he wants his promotion, he can earn it himself - I don't see why we'd open our library or publically denounce Alric for him.
- Location
- Utrecht
Mirathilde
No, because it would inveitably cost us Van Horstmann.
Alric does not seem like the kind of team player we are looking for, and he outranks us, so it would likely not go well.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
How about the Order of Guardians introduction?
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Hmm. I can understand the problem there. I definitely come at reading rules and statblocks from the perspective of a player, rather than someone who doesn't know the game. But from that same perspective you talk about wizard levels and Dangerous Terrain tests, and while those are probably easier to pick up from context, they're still just the basic rules. It's tricky to talk about this sort of thing, because naturally every official statblock assumes you have a working knowledge of the base rules, and it's just as natural to crib from them slightly to make your own.
It did. 8th stuck with 5, and also scrapped unit strength.
- Location
- Austria
I am kind of sympathetic to argument that Egrimm, being a proud sort, would be kind of offended at being promoted as a political play as opposed of on his own merits.
But there is nowhere else to spend a single favor from introduction to Guardians, and there is no reason not to take it, and promoted Egrimm would likely be of use...
But there is nowhere else to spend a single favor from introduction to Guardians, and there is no reason not to take it, and promoted Egrimm would likely be of use...
The order of guardians is free favour, and it makes two organisations who specialise in hunting things that go bump in the dark better at hunting them. There is no reason not to go for it.
We're already spending AP following Alric, so we can trade that easily.
As for what we get in return, let's absolutely give Egrimm his promotion, and recruit that Lady Magister with all the secrets in her head.
That seems fair, balanced and easy to deliver.
Honestly, I feel like we're cheating the Lights out of their knowledge at this rate.
We're already spending AP following Alric, so we can trade that easily.
As for what we get in return, let's absolutely give Egrimm his promotion, and recruit that Lady Magister with all the secrets in her head.
That seems fair, balanced and easy to deliver.
Honestly, I feel like we're cheating the Lights out of their knowledge at this rate.
I mean sure, but we have no proof of her having fallen to chaos, that accusation is far too grave to consider without some kind of proof. One might as well ask 'what if Dragonas fell to chaos and that is why he had such an easy time keeping his post'? From the same series 'What if Heidi is secretly the Changeling'. After all we know he can trick gods.
I do not think it is productive to bring chaos in on either side of this.
- Location
- UK
I'm not caught up on comments yet so dunno if this has been brought up, but I really liked the meeting place was a tearoom that was inundated with Hysh energies so much that it contributed to the visitors being able to deceive themselves in seeing it as something it was not, all revolving around a Waystone. As a meeting place between the White and Grey orders and considering the subject matter it seems like a very good omen that it was where Mira decided to meet, shows her intentions going into the meeting excellently.
- Location
- Finland
Well, promising to investigate Alric will reveal what he is up to, so no downsides there.
Hermes Trismegistus: "Hermes Trismegistus (from Ancient Greek: Ἑρμῆς ὁ Τρισμέγιστος, "Hermes the Thrice-Greatest"; Classical Latin: Mercurius ter Maximus) is a legendary Hellenistic figure that originated as a syncretic combination of the Greek god Hermes and the Egyptian god Thoth.[1] He is the purported author of the Hermetica, a widely diverse series of ancient and medieval pseudepigraphical texts that lay the basis of various philosophical systems known as Hermeticism."
"A Mycenaean Greek reference to a deity or semi-deity called ti-ri-se-ro-e (Linear B: 𐀴𐀪𐀮𐀫𐀁; Tris Hḗrōs, "thrice or triple hero")[7] was found on two Linear B clay tablets at Pylos[8] and could be connected to the later epithet "thrice great", Trismegistos,"
I am indicating that I feel it would be amusing if we went all in on Mira/Engrimm only to ultimately discover that they were on canon Engrimm's path all along, particularly if we went for the sabotage option.
I did not suggest throwing out accusations of Chaos.