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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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10ebbor10 said:
I mean, Mathilde did show up, kill several vampires, and then arrange the intervention and deployement of a large number battlemages.

So, that's a lot of powerful leverage to hold over an elector.
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Technically she killed one Vampire, albeit a pretty powerful one. The rest were necromancers. The other vampires were killed by the Colleges.
 
10ebbor10 said:
I mean, Mathilde did show up, kill several vampires, and then arrange the intervention and deployement of a large number battlemages.

So, that's a lot of powerful leverage to hold over an elector.
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It's more like that Mathilde did something that did all of:
  • earned her a Great Deed
  • is classified to hell and back, possibly literally
  • caused the greatest deployment of battle mages since the Coming of Chaos
I don't think what exactly she did is known outside of the Grey College and Dragomas.

Oh, and she has earned another Great Deed and no one has even heard a blip of what that one was about, only conspicuous silence.
 
Looking at Alric's actions, I don't think he's investigating Mathilde specifically. That's probably just her paranoia again.

It sounds like he tried to worm his way into the Skaven situation in Nuln (he did contribute to the Underreik campaign), but Elspeth chased him out. So he decided to go looking for leverage over Elspeth by inserting himself into the Sylvania campaign, but got caught by Roswita and burned his goodwill there, so he went looking into the trade disputes between Stirland and Talabecland to get leverage over Roswita, allowing him back into Sylvania and then back into Nuln, and from there back to Altdorf.

Once he was in Talabecland, he got his hooks into some local problem with the nobles. The question is; is he going to continue with this chain of sidequests, or will the Talabecland business take him back to Altdorf directly?
 
LightLan said:
It's more like that Mathilde did something that did all of:
  • earned her a Great Deed
  • is classified to hell and back, possibly literally
  • caused the greatest deployment of battle mages since the Coming of Chaos
I don't think what exactly she did is known outside of the Grey College and Dragomas.

Oh, and she has earned another Great Deed and no one has even heard a blip of what that one was about, only conspicuous silence.
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It's traditional for Gray Wizard Great Deeds. Really it would be kind of interesting to be able to see a Great Deed score card next to ever gray wizards name with no details given. A great way for them to show off well being smug and mysteries.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Looking at Alric's actions, I don't think he's investigating Mathilde specifically. That's probably just her paranoia again.

It sounds like he tried to worm his way into the Skaven situation in Nuln (he did contribute to the Underreik campaign), but Elspeth chased him out. So he decided to go looking for leverage over Elspeth by inserting himself into the Sylvania campaign, but got caught by Roswita and burned his goodwill there, so he went looking into the trade disputes between Stirland and Talabecland to get leverage over Roswita, allowing him back into Sylvania and then back into Nuln, and from there back to Altdorf.

Once he was in Talabecland, he got his hooks into some local problem with the nobles. The question is; is he going to continue with this chain of sidequests, or will the Talabecland business take him back to Altdorf directly?
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So what you're saying is that Alric's got himself caught up in a chain of deals quest? Wow, now I almost feel sorry for him...
 
Boney said:
Cython-Cromarc-Kel, drawing from both Tar-Eltharin and Fan-Eltharin to get as close to his name as Eltharin could manage with 'Thorok'. 'Wise Handmaiden of the Heath' would probably be the most direct translation, which was probably meant to be 'wise wielder of benevolent protective energies' that Mathilde shortened to 'wise artisan', because in Khazalid 'artisan' has inbuilt connotations of serving the common good. If she was really looking to start trouble, she could instead have taken the 'futility' association of 'cython', taken 'heath' as 'small fire', and the associations of 'kel' with magic to get a meaning of 'petty wizard who doesn't know when to give up'.
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Sorry, I'm confused about Cromarc here. Cromarc is the Fan-Eltharin word for heath, as in the shrubby landscapes with bad soil that get mentioned in Act 1 Scene 1 of Macbeth, according to the Lexicanum. What does that have to do with benevolent protective energies or small fires? A hearth seems like it would fit the bill for both, but that's a different word, unless I'm missing something important about Wood Elf culture (which I very well might).

(I'm sorry, but I love puns and I love being pedantic, and the opportunity to combine these interests comes up less often than you'd think.)
 
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Codex said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression obsidian is formed from cooled down lava and as a result it's found in places where eruptions have taken place like next to volcanos and calderas. As far as I know, there are no volcanos anywhere near Laurelorn. Maybe the Middle Mountains have a volcano, but that's out of the bounds of the forest. Where did they get that obsidian? Can obsidian be formed without volcanos involved?

EDIT: Or maybe they imported all their obsidian from Ulthuan back when they were a colony. That's an option.
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You are correct, obsidian is formed from lava. Obsidian cannot be formed without the involvement of a lava flow, but it does stick around for a really long time, so just because there isn't a volcano there now, doesn't mean there never was. Plus, yes they could have imported the obsidian from Ulthuan or somewhere, or they could have used magic to create it.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
You are correct, obsidian is formed from lava. Obsidian cannot be formed without the involvement of a lava flow, but it does stick around for a really long time, so just because there isn't a volcano there now, doesn't mean there never was. Plus, yes they could have imported the obsidian from Ulthuan or somewhere, or they could have used magic to create it.
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If they have the ability to make a resource from scratch or permanently transmute one object to another, that just means that the scarcity of space in the city is even more artificial than I thought.

In fact, the Grey Lords have the ability to live in a liminal space and bound a number of spirits to the service of laurelorn. Why the hell didn't they just hire the Grey Lords for space expansion?

Well, I think the answer is probably as simple as "the major houses don't want that to happen". But that just makes the whole lack of space in the city that much more of an actively malicious act rather than it just being the state of affairs.
 
Codex said:
If they have the ability to make a resource from scratch or permanently transmute one object to another, that just means that the scarcity of space in the city is even more artificial than I thought.

In fact, the Grey Lords have the ability to live in a liminal space and bound a number of spirits to the service of laurelorn. Why the hell didn't they just hire the Grey Lords for space expansion?

Well, I think the answer is probably as simple as "the major houses don't want that to happen". But that just makes the whole lack of space in the city that much more of an actively malicious act rather than it just being the state of affairs.
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Well, I was thinking they could draw up some lava and then cool it, rather than just create any material.

The Grey Lords probably don't care enough to help the people of Laurelorn. Like, they seem to be bound by an agreement to provide so much service for the city in return for being supplied, but I would be very surprised if the best use of that service is to expand the city.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
Well, I was thinking they could draw up some lava and then cool it, rather than just create any material.

The Grey Lords probably don't care enough to help the people of Laurelorn. Like, they seem to be bound by an agreement to provide so much service for the city in return for being supplied, but I would be very surprised if the best use of that service is to expand the city.
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They fix armor for Laurelorn:
Boney said:
"Only ever for as long as it takes for the novelty to wear off. Despite what so many of their works insist, there is a terrible boredom to pain." The last of the wooden golems disappears into the darkness, and moments later another emerges at the head of a similar line, though you cannot tell if it is the same things returned or an entirely new procession. Only the first three are carrying crates, and the others return to their places in the seats surrounding you empty-handed. "That's everything but the uglier of those cuirasses, the widdershins columnar assemblage on it needed to be replaced entirely. It should be ready by the next exchange."
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I don't know about you, but expanding the city's size seems a bit more important than fixing armor.
 
Codex said:
They fix armor for Laurelorn:

I don't know about you, but expanding the city's size seems a bit more important than fixing armor.
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Sure, the difference is the armor is almost certainly 'contributing to the safety of Laurelorn' or something else that is part of a pre-existing agreement the Grey Lords had to make in order to set up shop. Possibly an agreement made long before they had as much leverage as they currently do.
 
065tdsa said:
Sure, the difference is the armor is almost certainly 'contributing to the safety of Laurelorn' or something else that is part of a pre-existing agreement the Grey Lords had to make in order to set up shop. Possibly an agreement made long before they had as much leverage as they currently do.
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You know, I mentioned the Grey Lords, but you actually don't need to be nearly as powerful as them to do something about it. See, we know someone, a human, who knows a little about it:
Boney said:
"To hide something from a Grey Wizard, give them enough false clues to reach a wrong answer that makes them feel clever," he says with a smile. "To hide it from many, have enough wrong answers for them to argue over. Who says any of the access points are physical?"

"Basic logic," you retort. "The College has to be somewhere, so having at least some of the access points be physical is only sensible. Saves magical power and effort, and allows an access point in case of local magical collapse."

"The College has to be somewhere," he repeats, his smile widening. "A logical assumption." He places a hand on the wall and it ripples and melts away, revealing... nothing. A uniform field of grey on the other side, stretching as far as you can see in all directions. "The problem with logical assumption is that logic often has nothing to do with our profession."

He walks through the opening and without any visible trepidation you follow suit, walking atop an invisible floor. The wall heals below you and vanishes, enfolding the pair of you in an endless grey void. It's just as featureless to your Magesight as it is to your eyes. "Where are we?"

"To everyone else, the border between this world and the Aethyr is as thin as a dream. To those with the right attunement, the border can be a plane in its own right." He takes a seat on a chair you're certain was not there a moment ago. "It is the source of some of our most potent abilities. This is where objects enfolded within Substance of Shadow reside, this is the impossibly thin and thus infinitely sharp edge summoned by Penumbral Pendulum, this is where the Pit of Shades opens into, creating a wailing as the air itself is crushed. And through Teclis' techniques that I've only begun to scratch the surface of, it can be permanently expanded into a pocket big enough for a College."
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Is it possible that something that the Grey College has access to as a 200 year old institution allowing them to fit an entire college inside a liminal space is unavailable to the resources of an entire polity full of magic users who've been working on it for 5000 years? I somehow doubt that.
 
Don't forget that Galenstra complained about the cost of magic arrows

Boney said:
"Ah, this," he says, drawing it. "Handgun. A gift from your Graf, and so very entertaining. So much more energy imparted than a normal arrow, and for so much cheaper than the special arrows!
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Three guesses who makes the "special arrows".

The Grey Lords do not appear to be philanthropists.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Don't forget that Galenstra complained about the cost of magic arrows



Three guesses who makes the "special arrows".

The Grey Lords do not appear to be philanthropists.
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Or maybe it just costs a lot in the sense that you need to get rare reagents for it. Enchantment isn't made from nothing, sometimes it requires materials.
Godwinson said:
Expanding the city means diluting the political power of the society's elites.
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Exactly. I'm merely mentioning the fact that it seems to me like the city's size is entirely an artifical limitation placed on by the elite and anyone who looks deeply enough into it can see the fact that it's a problem is kind of bullshit.
 
Codex said:
They fix armor for Laurelorn:

I don't know about you, but expanding the city's size seems a bit more important than fixing armor.
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Not necessarily. One could argue that fixing armour (arguably magical armour) and therefore better allowing the city to be defended is more important than commencing a difficult, costly and time-consuming project to expand the city.

Codex said:
You know, I mentioned the Grey Lords, but you actually don't need to be nearly as powerful as them to do something about it. See, we know someone, a human, who knows a little about it:

Is it possible that something that the Grey College has access to as a 200 year old institution allowing them to fit an entire college inside a liminal space is unavailable to the resources of an entire polity full of magic users who've been working on it for 5000 years? I somehow doubt that.
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Teclis did that though. Not the College. Algard doesn't even know how you would do it, he just knows its possible using the techniques the Grey College has written down somewhere.
 
Saidoro said:
It's worth noting that "knows a lot about technology" and "knows nothing about what people use technology for" aren't mutually exclusive. One can find plenty of real world engineers who didn't have any idea why someone would want to use twitter or facebook, thought google glass was the coolest thing and view every single instance of them having to sign up for an account somewhere as a substantial imposition.
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Oh hey you can just @ me next time, it'll be quicker :V
 
deathofrats0808 said:
Not necessarily. One could argue that fixing armour (arguably magical armour) and therefore better allowing the city to be defended is more important than commencing a difficult, costly and time-consuming project to expand the city.


Teclis did that though. Not the College. Algard doesn't even know how you would do it, he just knows its possible using the techniques the Grey College has written down somewhere.
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Algard probably isn't 100 years old yet and he creates pocket dimensions to hold his paperwork for him. Are you telling me that not a single magician in Laurelorn who's lived for a thousand years was skilled enough in space manipulation to be able to match the teenage Teclis? Is all of Laurelorn that incompetent in magic outside the Grey Lords?
 
Codex said:
Algard probably isn't 100 years old yet and he creates pocket dimensions to hold his paperwork for him. Are you telling me that not a single magician in Laurelorn who's lived for a thousand years was skilled enough in space manipulation to be able to match the teenage Teclis? Is all of Laurelorn that incompetent in magic outside the Grey Lords?
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That's entirely possible, yes. Teclis had the luxury of being a full-time student, funded by his grandfather. Further Teclis is a ridiculous level of genius. Also, I'm unsure how much of Algard's paperwork system is his own skill and how much is the fact his office is already inside a pocket dimension. He might just be manipulating what is already there, rather building a new dimension of his own. Still impressive, but less useful for entire buildings.

Also, the citizens of Laurelorn could not want to live in a pocket dimension? Like, that's absolutely a decision they could have made.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
That's entirely possible, yes. Teclis had the luxury of being a full-time student, funded by his grandfather. Further Teclis is a ridiculous level of genius. Also, I'm unsure how much of Algard's paperwork system is his own skill and how much is the fact his office is already inside a pocket dimension. He might just be manipulating what is already there, rather building a new dimension of his own. Still impressive, but less useful for entire buildings.

Also, the citizens of Laurelorn could not want to live in a pocket dimension? Like, that's absolutely a decision they could have made.
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Tor Lithanel is arguably the most luxurious city for Elves in the world of Warhammer. The library it contains is twice as old as the Library of Hoeth and it's magical traditions probably run as old. The people of Tor Lithanel get invaded far less often than even the inner cities of Ulthuan. I don't care if you're a genius, you're not gonna surpass the collective ability of 5000 years of magical traditions by yourself.

If your statement is correct and Teclis alone is more competent than the entirety of Laurelorn's magical traditons when he was a teenager, then Laurelorn might be the most pathetic polity in the Warhammer world for wasting the advantage of 5000 years of unbroken magical tradition.
 
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Codex said:
Exactly. I'm merely mentioning the fact that it seems to me like the city's size is entirely an artifical limitation placed on by the elite and anyone who looks deeply enough into it can see the fact that it's a problem is kind of bullshit.
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Codex, I hate to break it to you, but that's nothing special. Socially-driven scarcity of housing for urban areas is, uh, basically the default? Since forever?
 
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