Darth.
Definitely a heretic
- Location
- The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
What chapter/context is this mentioned in? I don't recall anything about a death prophecy.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
ShyPerson
Guardian of the dead’s final rest.
- Location
- Sweden
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- Him/He
I would imagine that rangers, merchants and others who operate on the surface might use a modified calendar that takes these factors into account.
- Location
- Denial
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So she adopted a cat and called it Morr.
It's from her dooming, a coming of age ritual all empire citizens go through at ten. It's not come up in the main text, but Boney's talked about it in the comments before.
"When abandoned and alone, Morr shalt befriend thee."
It's supposed to be a prophecy of how she'll die. Mathilda, however, believes this has already happened, because after she was abandoned by her family, she adopted a little black cat she called Morr.
Edit: misremembered the quote.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
… You know, another way to read that dooming is that we'll never be alone and abandoned if we become the sort of person Morr would never befriend.
In case there was any doubt that the Necromancy path is the route of lasting friendships~
In case there was any doubt that the Necromancy path is the route of lasting friendships~
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deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Actually, the Asur and the Druchii have the same start date, the crowning of Aenarion (amusingly, both army books agree that he ruled for 80 years, and set the end of his reign at -4419 but the High Elven book says it began in -4498 and the Dark Elven book in -4500. I assume this is a muck-up by the authors). The difference appears in 1670, when Caledor the Conquerer is elected as Phoenix King, ending the second age of the Ulthuani calendar, but the Naggarothi one continues for a further 26 years, to the Sundering (and hence the end of Malekith's hopes for a military victory in the first Druchii-Asur war).
The Asrai begin their calendar in -1500 (presumably, any records they have from before this are given in Ulthuani dates and any modern account of those times uses a similar negative numbering as the Empire).
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Codex
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Caledor the Conqueror was crowned after Bel Shanaar's assassination in -2750 IC and the civil war went for around 600 years before Caledor was assasinated and the war ended. I assume you meant Caledor II ascending to the throne around -2100 IC being the part where things change?
EDIT: No no you're right. The second age of the Druchii ends around -2723 IC. The Civil War simply stretches on for another 600 years but the Druchii just lump that in with the rest of the Age of Spite.
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deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
No, I did mean what I wrote (although I said 1670 instead of the Imperial date of -2749). After the Sundering, while the fighting continues, Malekith no longer has any chance of claiming the Phoenix Throne. It's when he retreats to and founds Naggaroth. Indeed, there's a straight century with no fighting because the Sundering screwed both sides up so badly, and when the fighting begins again it's mostly naval warfare and skirmishes fought on the new northern islands.
Codex
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I'll be honest, I despise the Elven timelines and their timekeeping. Crossreferencing all the different timelines between the different books, and the Elf books are definitly the worst to flip through. The way they record time is so frustrating.
Your use of the elven timeline was definitely one of the biggest sources of confusion.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Yeah, sorry. Because I was cross-referencing the books myself, I used the date I had just been looking at instead of the one more familiar to most people.
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You've taken another step on the road to historian: Hatred of regnal dating systems.
Codex
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Over the past weeks, veering into months, I've read 27 Warhammer Fantasy books, so yes I do think that I'm starting to feel the pain of a historian. Especially since I'm reading them for knowledge primarily and enjoyment secondarily.
Codex
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I found an interesting thing from Children of the Horned Rat. Here it is for consideration:
"There's a legend that the Skaven are all descended from Skavor, the son of Gazul, cousin to Grimnir. Skavor, like Gazul, was younger than his brothers and lacked the skill for working stone or shaping metal. He was rightly exiled for this, so he went away into the deep-earth and learnt how to shape his flesh instead of shaping metal, turning himself into a hideous rat-beast and swearing revenge on his blood-kin. And this is why the Dwarfs fight the Skaven as hard as we fight the Greenskins, though the Ratmen have wreaked far less damage upon us: because many of us believe that the Skaven came from our blood. We fight them not just to settle our grudges, but to shed our shame." —Thurin Strongblade, Runescribe of Karak Alnor
I somehow find it hard to believe that the Dwarfs would have such an uncharitable legend about a relative to their greatest Ancestor Gods? I mean, the idea is neat, but I'm not sure the Dwarfs would have a legend that paints the Skaven as "relatives" to the Dwarves.
"There's a legend that the Skaven are all descended from Skavor, the son of Gazul, cousin to Grimnir. Skavor, like Gazul, was younger than his brothers and lacked the skill for working stone or shaping metal. He was rightly exiled for this, so he went away into the deep-earth and learnt how to shape his flesh instead of shaping metal, turning himself into a hideous rat-beast and swearing revenge on his blood-kin. And this is why the Dwarfs fight the Skaven as hard as we fight the Greenskins, though the Ratmen have wreaked far less damage upon us: because many of us believe that the Skaven came from our blood. We fight them not just to settle our grudges, but to shed our shame." —Thurin Strongblade, Runescribe of Karak Alnor
I somehow find it hard to believe that the Dwarfs would have such an uncharitable legend about a relative to their greatest Ancestor Gods? I mean, the idea is neat, but I'm not sure the Dwarfs would have a legend that paints the Skaven as "relatives" to the Dwarves.
Legends aren't subject to a central vetting authority, all they need is to be retold. All kinds of unpalatable legends and mythologies have sprung up throughout history and persevered despite attempts by all sorts of major powers to stamp them out.
Yeah, this really does not feel like something the dwarfs would claim. They tend towards silence over great shames. It feels more like something attributed to a dwarf by an outsider, than something a dwarf would claim.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
I thought it got mentioned when we first met Eike? Or was that her Quickening? I remember something about her feeding doves after the event, at least.
Codex
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She got her Dooming and Quickening soon after each other, like you're supposed to. Mathilde never got her Quickening because she lived in a small village, so the ceremonies would happen whenever the right priest came by. Eike's Dooming was "Beware the Cloven Hoof", and she fed doves after her quickening, indicating a lean towards Shallya.
- Location
- Seattle
I'm gonna get this as a tattoo.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
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- America
It's at 2/3 now, actually. Which is even better.
Codex
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So I'm pretty sure this particular legend was mentioned in this thread, but the full transcript wasn't posted. Essentially, the following legend is basically a story about Ulric being super cool and awesome and saving the whole world from the coming of chaos, and it's available in the Ulrican church of Middenheim. Needless to say, take it with a grain of salt because it's super biased. It's also kind of long, so if you don't want to read all of it, just read the first three paragraphs and you're mostly set as to what I'll be talking about. I'll put it under a spoiler because it's a lot:
The important/relevant parts here are of course the Ranald parts. Of course an Ulrican legend would paint Ranald in the most uncharitable way light possible, but I find it interesting that they mentioned that Ranald "buried himself in the sands". I'm bringing this up because of Mathilde's odd sense of familiarity with a Nehekharan god who was most likely Qu'aph when checking out the coins of the Nehekharan vaults.
Another interesting part is the obvious fib about Ulric holding the gates of Chaos closed for "1001 years". I note this because the Chaos incursion began around -5500 IC, but Ulthuan was only invaded around -4499 IC, which resulted in Aenarion rushing back to Ulthuan and becoming the first Phoenix King. It is true that there were around 1001 years in which the Elves of Ulthuan weren't invaded by Chaos despite the incursion starting, and I'm pretty sure the Dwarves were attacked by Ku'gath Plaguefather by this point, so one has to wonder why they weren't attacked. My theory is that the Lizardmen fought the forces of Chaos to a standstill for the most part, keeping them at bay so Ulthuan wasn't besieged. In fact, in the Lizardmen timeline, -4500 IC is recorded as "The End is Nigh: Only a handful of Temple-Cities remain", so it's most likely the Lizardmen who held back Chaos from Ulthuan.
The final note I want to make is that this is the first time I see a mention of Verena crying tears that led to Shallya's birth. Imagery is sort of reminiscient of Isha's tears. There's also a mention of Verena's sword here, but I'm not sure if it's the same sword of Tlanxla from the Elven Legend that she tricked from Ulgu or if it's a different sword, after all Verena's all about swords.
There was a time, when the world was young and man had just come forth onto the earth, that there was no taint of Chaos upon the land. Father Taal and Mother Rhya tended the things of the land, and their son Manann was master of the things of the sea. Morr was king of the darkness, and Verena the queen of the light, and so all was in balance. In the high summers, Lord Ulric, brother of Taal and prince of the snow and ice, had no realm to tend to, so he had taken to walking the earth and the sky and the stars to seek adventure. He travelled far beyond the ken of man or God, fought and slew the greater monsters and dragons and gave names to all the wonders that he found. With him in many of these journeys came his cousin, Prince Ranald the Trickster, and many are the tales told of these two friends and their brave deeds. But all journeys must end, and this is the tale of their last journey together.
Ulric and Ranald had journeyed far to the north, farther than any God or man had ever gone before, into the frozen wastes, where the air is so cold it freezes like the water and the earth shatters under your feet like the first film of ice on the lake, and no man nor Dwarf can survive. And here, at the very top of the world, Ulric and Ranald came upon a crack in the sky. Looking through it, they saw a great horror: it led to the Realm of Chaos. There stood all the beasts and Daemons and Gods of Chaos, a great and terrible horde, straining to widen the crack and hungry for conquest of this new world. Ulric knew that should this army breach the gate, all of this world would be forever destroyed. He called to his brother Ranald to immediately run to tell Father Taal and King Morr of what they had seen, so they might make ready their armies to drive back this horde. Ulric said he would stand at the crack and hold it closed as long as he could.
Ranald nodded to his brother, and ran. But the Trickster was a coward, and when he had seen the Chaos hordes he had known only fear. Instead of running to tell his Lords and family what had happened, he instead ran and hid. He ran far, far away, to the burning deserts in the south, and buried himself deep under the sand there. Ulric waited at the crack, holding it closed with all his might, though on the other side a million Daemons clawed and grabbed at it, desperate to tear it further and gain their entry. Ulric stood and held the gate for a thousand years and one, his muscles ever-straining with the effort, waiting for his cousin to return. But he never returned. Enraged at his brother's cowardice, Ulric swore never to speak to his brother again, nor ever to suffer a trickster to travel with him, for all that trusted in tricks were nought but cowards, weaklings and deceivers.
Finally, Ulric's strength began to wane, and he knew his weakling brother had not delivered the message. He knew too, that he could not hold the gate closed much longer. So despite his fears, he was forced to let go and bear the terrible news to his family himself. But when he arrived to do so, he found himself ignored and discounted. His brother Taal did not believe that there could be another world beyond his, and Manann had no care for things of the land. Great King Morr believed Ulric's story, but did not see a great danger—certainly it was nothing Ulric himself could not handle. Ulric despaired, knowing that even now the Chaos hordes must be pouring into their world, led by their own great and hideous Gods, ready to destroy all they had made.
Ulric and Ranald had journeyed far to the north, farther than any God or man had ever gone before, into the frozen wastes, where the air is so cold it freezes like the water and the earth shatters under your feet like the first film of ice on the lake, and no man nor Dwarf can survive. And here, at the very top of the world, Ulric and Ranald came upon a crack in the sky. Looking through it, they saw a great horror: it led to the Realm of Chaos. There stood all the beasts and Daemons and Gods of Chaos, a great and terrible horde, straining to widen the crack and hungry for conquest of this new world. Ulric knew that should this army breach the gate, all of this world would be forever destroyed. He called to his brother Ranald to immediately run to tell Father Taal and King Morr of what they had seen, so they might make ready their armies to drive back this horde. Ulric said he would stand at the crack and hold it closed as long as he could.
Ranald nodded to his brother, and ran. But the Trickster was a coward, and when he had seen the Chaos hordes he had known only fear. Instead of running to tell his Lords and family what had happened, he instead ran and hid. He ran far, far away, to the burning deserts in the south, and buried himself deep under the sand there. Ulric waited at the crack, holding it closed with all his might, though on the other side a million Daemons clawed and grabbed at it, desperate to tear it further and gain their entry. Ulric stood and held the gate for a thousand years and one, his muscles ever-straining with the effort, waiting for his cousin to return. But he never returned. Enraged at his brother's cowardice, Ulric swore never to speak to his brother again, nor ever to suffer a trickster to travel with him, for all that trusted in tricks were nought but cowards, weaklings and deceivers.
Finally, Ulric's strength began to wane, and he knew his weakling brother had not delivered the message. He knew too, that he could not hold the gate closed much longer. So despite his fears, he was forced to let go and bear the terrible news to his family himself. But when he arrived to do so, he found himself ignored and discounted. His brother Taal did not believe that there could be another world beyond his, and Manann had no care for things of the land. Great King Morr believed Ulric's story, but did not see a great danger—certainly it was nothing Ulric himself could not handle. Ulric despaired, knowing that even now the Chaos hordes must be pouring into their world, led by their own great and hideous Gods, ready to destroy all they had made.
Another interesting part is the obvious fib about Ulric holding the gates of Chaos closed for "1001 years". I note this because the Chaos incursion began around -5500 IC, but Ulthuan was only invaded around -4499 IC, which resulted in Aenarion rushing back to Ulthuan and becoming the first Phoenix King. It is true that there were around 1001 years in which the Elves of Ulthuan weren't invaded by Chaos despite the incursion starting, and I'm pretty sure the Dwarves were attacked by Ku'gath Plaguefather by this point, so one has to wonder why they weren't attacked. My theory is that the Lizardmen fought the forces of Chaos to a standstill for the most part, keeping them at bay so Ulthuan wasn't besieged. In fact, in the Lizardmen timeline, -4500 IC is recorded as "The End is Nigh: Only a handful of Temple-Cities remain", so it's most likely the Lizardmen who held back Chaos from Ulthuan.
The final note I want to make is that this is the first time I see a mention of Verena crying tears that led to Shallya's birth. Imagery is sort of reminiscient of Isha's tears. There's also a mention of Verena's sword here, but I'm not sure if it's the same sword of Tlanxla from the Elven Legend that she tricked from Ulgu or if it's a different sword, after all Verena's all about swords.
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- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
For no apparent reason I have an overpowering impulse to drop back in and share my theory again: Gor Dum was a dwarf before he became a beastman, that's why he keeps reincarnating, because that's what dwarves believe happens to dwarf souls that die without the proper rites. Okay, back to my homework now.
- Location
- Earth
Please don't post direct copies of the original source material—it could be really bad if DMCA and copyright law got involved here. This is why stuff like the spellbook was all paraphrased by Boney instead of taken directly.
Codex
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Then what do you want me to do? Paraphrase 1800 words? Not only does that defeat the purpose since it completely elimintates the purpose of transcripts (being unedited so you get the full impression of what was intended), but it means you're basically using me as a filter for all the information you recieve instead of forming your own opinions. If posting a single myth from the source is enough to cause copyright infringement, then I might as well just stop reading Warhammer Fantasy books right here since we can't discuss them anymore.
EDIT: I deleted everything after the fourth paragraph. I hope it doesn't cause confusion now.
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