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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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DragonParadox said:
@BoneyM are there any Elders from before the Entrapment left in Vlag, and if so how old are they? Just people who were kids at the time or adults too?
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BoneyM said:
All the Dwarves that stood between the Daemons and the Karak were those Longbeards old enough to remember another world, but the first Dwarf to emerge is an Elder even amongst these, who would likely be somewhere in his fourth century if the passage of time could still be known with any confidence.
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This guy would have been ~200 at the time of the incursion.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Spite. They literally decided not just to forgo Slaanesh's domains, but to embrace them whilst simultaneously cock-blocking Slaanesh from benefiting from that embracing.
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That's a nice sentiment, but spite doesn't let you double dip on something that might as well be a pillar of reality. It doesn't explain the level of social engineering that would be required to transition to such a society.

I will accept the idea that they were falling faster than they might have realized.
 
DragonParadox said:
I think it is pretty clear that a spell is not a daemon, it takes more than a dispel to get rid of the latter no matter how skilled the one doing it, it takes a specific banishment spell, or a sword in the gut. By the same token anyone trying to stab a Pit of Shades to make it go away is in for a bad time.
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I'd imagine there would be quite a difference between an effect meant to sustain itself for a limited time to achieve X result compared to how Daemons more purposefully search for energy instead of being granted it to manifest. That and another difference might be the complexity of how a spell is weaved compared to a Daemon, thus due to a spell being much less complex, or at least isn't forcibly held together to the same degree, and more easily disrupted a dispel works. As both a Daemon and it's Wargear for example are the same being, composed of the same energy of the Warp, therefore is it not unreasonable to say a spell cast by a Daemon, or a Human, can be thought of as a vastly lower Daemon, or rather a warp-derived construct. As we do know when preforming Battle Magic the Wind seems to gain a mind of it's own and Ulgu was once the name of a Daemon if I recall obscure lore correctly.

Beyond that, found out where I heard the concept of living spells, Age of Sigmar apparently with Endless Spells. Which likely are unable to be replicated in this modern day and age of the Empire.
 
flotter said:
That's a nice sentiment, but spite doesn't let you double dip on something that might as well be a pillar of reality. It doesn't explain the level of social engineering that would be required to transition to such a society.

I will accept the idea that they were falling faster than they might have realized.
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The greatest lie Slaanesh ever told was that She has sole dominion over pleasure. Excesses of self-abasement are just as sure a road to Her as hedonistic overindulgence.

Also, survivorship bias. The ones that couldn't or wouldn't make the transition are either dead or running around with Slaaneshi tattoos.
 
flotter said:
That's a nice sentiment, but spite doesn't let you double dip on something that might as well be a pillar of reality. It doesn't explain the level of social engineering that would be required to transition to such a society.

I will accept the idea that they were falling faster than they might have realized.
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I don't understand what you mean by "double dipping on a pillar of reality."

The dwarves of Karak Vlag were trapped by an enemy against which they had little recourse. The natural reaction of a dwarf to a foe is apparently spite, which rather fits with their Grudges. Lacking methods of meaningfully inconveniencing or insulting their foe, they invented new ones.
 
MiracleGrow said:
Depending on the plants they grow. I imagine that they were not only drinking water 24/7. A surprising number of plants can be used in interesting ways to spice up drinks. It's just that well... It usually tastes worse than the usual suspects when it comes to flavors. But isolation and bordem could over come that pretty easily.

Second is that it makes sense that they would cultivate lizards. They are hardy little things and if they have a good source of insects it make it all the easier.

There is a surprising amount of things you can make in isolation with no resources beyond rocks and some plants. Just look up what people have done on deserted islands when trapped there for a extended period of time. There is probably a number of demons with brushed egos after having literal rocks dropped on their heads.
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Who Would Win:

The Keepers of Secrets-- the untiring warrior lords, swift and fleet and undying

-OR-

Bearded Assholes With Rocks

(These are the only alright Dwarfs)
 
The Void said:
I'd imagine there would be quite a difference between an effect meant to sustain itself for a limited time to achieve X result compared to how Daemons more purposefully search for energy instead of being granted it to manifest. That and another difference might be the complexity of how a spell is weaved compared to a Daemon, thus due to a spell being much less complex, or at least isn't forcibly held together to the same degree, and more easily disrupted a dispel works. As both a Daemon and it's Wargear for example are the same being, composed of the same energy of the Warp, therefore is it not unreasonable to say a spell cast by a Daemon, or a Human, can be thought of as a vastly lower Daemon, or rather a warp-derived construct. As we do know when preforming Battle Magic the Wind seems to gain a mind of it's own and Ulgu was once the name of a Daemon if I recall obscure lore correctly.

Beyond that, found out where I heard the concept of living spells, Age of Sigmar apparently with Endless Spells. Which likely are unable to be replicated in this modern day and age of the Empire.
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By that argument human souls are also living spells because they are qualitatively the same, aetheryc energy and then you get into really odd things since it would apply to the souls of pre-Old One beings too, those who have never naturally interacted with the warp. It ties everything up in too neat a bow.
 
The implication that a third of the entire population of the Karaz Ankor, or let's call if a fourth to account for the survivors interbreeding and passing it down, has some capability for runesmithing is quite tremendous.

The right compromise could lead to an overnight revolution of the entirety of their industrial base. It might not be the Good Old Days where every spade had a Master Rune of Digging, but every shovel having a Least Rune of +1 Toiling is nevertheless tremendous when applied on that kind of scale.
 
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Wait a second, I understand this right each of the first three generations get a seat on the Regency Council, but generation two is the one with a pre-Entrapment grandparent which means that Generation One is the previous, with a pre-Entrapment parent but that means that generation zero, the dwarfs who remember the old world do not get a vote. Let me repeat that, the oldest dwarfs do not get a vote.

No doubt they are still respected for their wisdom and council as we have seen in the Thorgrim scene but as we have also seen there they seemed to have taken on a far more martial and protective role, letting their children and grandchildren take the lead politically.

I think that may be more radical than dwarfs not drinking guys.
 
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Felt like this needs to be stated. Just because the dwarves developed poly relationship does not in any way point towards corruption. In fact it very much points towards the opposite!

Just think along these four lines.

1.Consent
2. Communication
3. Care for Wellbeing
4. Respect.

As long as you these four rules are followed than this is the literal anathema to the temptress. The temptress is the complete opposite of these things.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Wait a second, I understand this right each of the first three generations get a seat on the Regency Council, but generation two is the one with a pre-Entrapment grandparent which means that Generation One is the previous, with a pre-Entrapment parent but that means that generation zero, the dwarfs who remember the old world do not get a vote. Let me repeat that, the oldest dwarfs do not get a vote.

No doubt they are still respected for their wisdom and council as we have seen in the Thorgrim scene but as we have also seen there they seemed to have taken on a far more martial and protective role, letting their children and grandchildren take the lead politically.

I think that may be more radical than dwarfs not drinking guys.
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Chances are so many of those people are dead that they have a near nonexistent presence on the council.
 
DragonParadox said:
Wait a second, I understand this right each of the first three generations get a seat on the Regency Council, but generation two is the one with a pre-Entrapment grandparent which means that Generation One is the previous, with a pre-Entrapment parent but that means that generation zero, the dwarfs who remember the old world do not get a vote. Let me repeat that, the oldest dwarfs do not get a vote.

No doubt they are still respected for their wisdom and council as we have seen in the Thorgrim scene but as we have also seen there they seemed to have taken on a far more martial and protective role, letting their children and grandchildren take the lead politically.

I think that may be more radical than dwarfs not drinking guys.
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I think Elder Council is something in its own right.
 
DragonParadox said:
Wait a second, I understand this right each of the first three generations get a seat on the Regency Council, but generation two is the one with a pre-Entrapment grandparent which means that Generation One is the previous, with a pre-Entrapment parent but that means that generation zero, the dwarfs who remember the old world do not get a vote. Let me repeat that, the oldest dwarfs do not get a vote.

No doubt they are still respected for their wisdom and council as we have seen in the Thorgrim scene but as we have also seen there they seemed to have taken on a far more martial and protective role, letting their children and grandchildren take the lead.

I think that may be more radical than dwarfs not drinking guys.
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I would think that any dwarf who was alive when Vlag got pulled into the Warp is probably counted as part of the First Generation, rather than descending into the zeroes and negatives.
 
DragonParadox said:
Wait a second, I understand this right each of the first three generations get a seat on the Regency Council, but generation two is the one with a pre-Entrapment grandparent which means that Generation One is the previous, with a pre-Entrapment parent but that means that generation zero, the dwarfs who remember the old world do not get a vote. Let me repeat that, the oldest dwarfs do not get a vote.

No doubt they are still respected for their wisdom and council as we have seen in the Thorgrim scene but as we have also seen there they seemed to have taken on a far more martial and protective role, letting their children and grandchildren take the lead politically.

I think that may be more radical than dwarfs not drinking guys.
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It's not one seat per generation, they needed a majority of each generation's seats. I'd imagine that all of the interested elders get seats if they want them, they just don't number enough to count as their own bloc.
 
There's going to be an interesting argument among the Runesmiths about if they should continue the training of Karak Vlag's Rhunkit , to complete the half-finished teachings that were lost, or if they should avoid further teaching to prevent the dissemination of Runecraft.
 
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