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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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@Afforess It's a good plan that gets us a pile of everything, but the problem with selling off 6 colonies is that while we now have a limit of only 4 colonies per year, in the future we will scale up enough to take all of the colonies on offer. We don't need 60pp that desperately, and while it seems like we have too many potential colonies, in the past we've had years with both few colonies to pick from and years with lots of choices like now.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Traveling and phone posting. If votes still open when I can substantially try I will update my vote.
- Location
- Austin, TX
The 6 colonies are essentially a trade for a bigger FDS. I'd hope Councillor Stesk would agree that giving away a few rocks in return for more friends is a good trade.
The rest of the plan differs significantly from others too - Centi-Cochrane Band Antenna & more Colony Points in the future. BR colonies over SR colonies.
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Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
This is a Snakepit option, its convincing the Council to do it. If we buy it it means that Council knows and OKs it.
And we will have an explosive charge in that computer core in case of tantrum I am sure, would be stupid not to. And backups for the work that the core usually does, because even success would mean isolating the core and using it as a prison, at least until we are confident that we can the Singer out of it where we want them.
Yes, this is risky, but one must weight that risk against the risks we take every day this crisis goes on, and how many of those success here could save us, among other things.
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I haven't been paying the closest attention to the plan votes, but... these diplomacy choices make no sense, and I can't find an explanation for them either. Why are we aiming most of these diplomacy pushes at strong allies who also aren't near any diplomacy thresholds?
Yrillians: A current Ally and potential Member, but a ridiculous 604 points away from Membership with a massive -[Anarchy at all levels: 6/500] tag.
Tauni: The only choice I can agree on. They're on the border with the HoH and have 228 points to go, which is achievable in a few years with focused diplomacy.
Sydraxians: 336 points, and while near the Cardassians are also behind the fortified Gabriel Expanse.
Ashidi: A massive 530 points away from Membership.
If we're looking to fast-track an Ally into Membership, why not the Dreamers? Only 97 points away meaning a single push is likely to either cross the threshold or get close enough for the next year's automatic push to finish.
Misek: A current Affiliate and potential Ally, but 265 points and a 0/2 FDS tag away. Not a bad choice, but hardly a pressing one or one that's close to reaching the threshold.
If we're looking to bring an Affiliate into Ally status, why not the Gretarians? A mere 65 points away, and they're a civ of pacifist dog-people. Plus it'd be awkward at best to promote the Sydraxians to full Federation Member status while the Gretarians are still just Affiliates.
Article: Supreme executive authority rests with a three member council elected to fixed terms on a staggered schedule so that only one of the three is up for election at any given time. Membership in the Executive Council translates to something like "Best Doge".
As for non-Affiliates that could become Affiliates (and thus receive annual diplomacy progress as well as being more open to UFP intervention for emergencies) I think we have three strong potential candidates:
Dangerously close to both the HoH and the Breen, and also part of the shadow war of Discord. 32 points away from Affiliation is quite achievable, same as how in Discord we know we can reverse their HoH subordination.
Formerly one of the focuses of the now-disbanded Task Force Welcome, the Ataami are juuust on the edge of Affiliation by a mere 10 points. The Ataami were victims of a Hishmeri attack in 2316, but have since managed to attain warp technology and are safely
Mostly notable for their diplomatic ties with the Romulans, the Sotaw are also the last relatively-close polity to Affiliation at 72 points away. It would take multiple diplo-pushes to affiliate with them, but the Neutral Zone is right next door to us.
IDK, there are other places we maybe could diplomance but I don't want to do some huge diplomacy analysis post. There's been basically no discussion here about our diplomacy choices except a reference to some Discord (the chatroom) discussion and this is probably way way too late to convince anyone to change so... yeah.
@Briefvoice @Raw90 What's your reasoning for the current diplo choices?
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- Illinois
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So, looking back at the Discord conversation, the list was developed by @Enerael , with reasoning as follows:
And then there was a discussion about essentially the Misek vs. Ataami, ultimately going with the Misek on the basis of the fact that they're in a pretty dangerous region of space.
And then there was a discussion about essentially the Misek vs. Ataami, ultimately going with the Misek on the basis of the fact that they're in a pretty dangerous region of space.
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But the Sydraxians and especially the Yrillians aren't close to membership, and as Allies they and the UFP already have provisions to work together in case of war. Also, I miscalculated on the Misek: They're currently only 100/300 on their way to becoming Allies, which with their tag puts them 465 points away instead of just 245 points. Besides, we've already marked Affiliation in the sand as the point where we feel prepared enough to intervene in a conflict, and all of your current choices are already past that mark. If you instead want to work on reducing their threat tag, there's an option to do that specifically instead of just general relations:
*sigh* Anyways, I was working on an alternate slate of what I would pick but I'm not sure I'll have enough time to finish it right now. I'll post that soonish.
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So, for whatever it counts, these are my alternative plan votes that only alter this year's accelerated diplomacy choices. Messy-looking explanation as follows:
Tauni: They're part of our conflict with the HoH and are directly on the border with them. Given they're likely to fight in both hot and cold conflicts, and their planet is literally on the line if we loose, I think it's well worth pushing their membership forward. 272/500 tag points to Membership.
Misek TAG - A Bad Neighbourhood: We don't have Task Forces anymore. That makes resolving a polity's taged issues much, much harder. Diplomacy pushes to non-affiliates are useful but they just don't make enough of a difference to help when there's hundreds of points to chew through. But for polities that are affiliates, a targeted diplomacy push into a tag can make great progress. The Misek are in a very bad neighborhood, and rather than wait for annual diplomacy or for a normal diplo-push to fill up 100/300 first, I'm choosing to directly affect the Misek's tag here. (And as this is a capability we didn't have before, I think it's a good idea to start using it.) 35/300 to tag resolution.
Bolians: A non-affiliate who's part of the current conflict with the HoH, and also one of the closest polities to becoming affiliates. Those are two very good reasons to target them with a push. 68/100 tag points to Affiliation.
Ataami: Only 90/100 to becoming Affiliates. Affiliates have an annual diplomacy roll, allow us to intervene in emergencies, and even give us crew and resource income. A non-affiliate doesn't have any of that, even one that's a mere 10 points away. We could wait years for them to randomly receive one of our rare random diplomacy rolls or an event, or we can finish what we started with Task Force Welcome and mark them off our ever-expanding list. The Ataami have both the tags [Obsolete Technology] and [Limited Stellar Ability] which makes them vulnerable compared to most polities, but if they become Affiliates then progress will go towards those tags without Starfleet needing to invest further resources.
Sotaw: Speaking of solving problems. The Sotaw have been around since the Biophage crisis, and we've never really bothered trying to send diplomacy their way. With our slowly thawing relations with the Romulans, getting an in with the Sotaw is the first step towards dissolving the Neutral Zone. While we'd need to send an FDS team to secure them as Allies, to simply get them to become Affiliates (and start actually talking to us) we only need to get through 72 points. They're one of the few relatively close potential Affiliate on the list, and very achievable if we put in the effort.
Anyways, I'm very much willing to make changes here depending on what you all think.Again, the only changes in these plans are the diplomacy choices:
[X][Council] Plan Briefvoice With Derpmind Diplo
And an approval vote, in the likelyhood that this doesn't catch on:
[][COUNCIL] Raw90 Safe Snakepit 2326
Tauni: They're part of our conflict with the HoH and are directly on the border with them. Given they're likely to fight in both hot and cold conflicts, and their planet is literally on the line if we loose, I think it's well worth pushing their membership forward. 272/500 tag points to Membership.
Misek TAG - A Bad Neighbourhood: We don't have Task Forces anymore. That makes resolving a polity's taged issues much, much harder. Diplomacy pushes to non-affiliates are useful but they just don't make enough of a difference to help when there's hundreds of points to chew through. But for polities that are affiliates, a targeted diplomacy push into a tag can make great progress. The Misek are in a very bad neighborhood, and rather than wait for annual diplomacy or for a normal diplo-push to fill up 100/300 first, I'm choosing to directly affect the Misek's tag here. (And as this is a capability we didn't have before, I think it's a good idea to start using it.) 35/300 to tag resolution.
Bolians: A non-affiliate who's part of the current conflict with the HoH, and also one of the closest polities to becoming affiliates. Those are two very good reasons to target them with a push. 68/100 tag points to Affiliation.
Ataami: Only 90/100 to becoming Affiliates. Affiliates have an annual diplomacy roll, allow us to intervene in emergencies, and even give us crew and resource income. A non-affiliate doesn't have any of that, even one that's a mere 10 points away. We could wait years for them to randomly receive one of our rare random diplomacy rolls or an event, or we can finish what we started with Task Force Welcome and mark them off our ever-expanding list. The Ataami have both the tags [Obsolete Technology] and [Limited Stellar Ability] which makes them vulnerable compared to most polities, but if they become Affiliates then progress will go towards those tags without Starfleet needing to invest further resources.
Sotaw: Speaking of solving problems. The Sotaw have been around since the Biophage crisis, and we've never really bothered trying to send diplomacy their way. With our slowly thawing relations with the Romulans, getting an in with the Sotaw is the first step towards dissolving the Neutral Zone. While we'd need to send an FDS team to secure them as Allies, to simply get them to become Affiliates (and start actually talking to us) we only need to get through 72 points. They're one of the few relatively close potential Affiliate on the list, and very achievable if we put in the effort.
Anyways, I'm very much willing to make changes here depending on what you all think.
[X][Council] Plan Briefvoice With Derpmind Diplo
- Request Research Colony Hill 361 Archive, N'Lask, 9pp, 2 cp, 4 (6.5) rp/year, 4 turns (Sol; may not be transferred to United Earth)
- Request Mining Colony V'Ten, 10 (25) br/year, 15 (35) sr/year, 4 turns (GBZ)
- Request Mining Colony LM-34-V-XL, 14pp, 2 cp, 20 (35) br/yr, 4 turns (Tellar)
- Request Research Colony Morgana-1321, 2 (4.5) rp/year, 4 turns (GBZ)
- Arrange to Pass Control of a potential colony site to a nearby power, gain +10pp from members or +15 relations from affiliates or other powers - Mining Colony Qendip III, 10 (25) br/year) (Rethelia; pass to Ataami) +15 relations
- Request Academy Development, 30pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
- Request Explorer Corps Annex Development, 25pp (Gain +0.15 EC O/E/T throughput)
- Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Tauni)
- Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Sydraxians)
- Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Misek TAG - [A Bad Neighbourhood])
- Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Bolians)
- Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Sotaw)
- Request to start a ship refit project, 20pp, 2 turns for frigates ("low crew" Kepler refit)
- Deploy Improved Listening Posts to a Border Zone to gain a 25% chance of generating +1pt of Intel Spending on reports for powers on that border. (Imelak Border Zone), 20pp
- Deploy Improved Listening Posts to a Border Zone to gain a 25% chance of generating +1pt of Intel Spending on reports for powers on that border. (Rimward Border Zone), 20pp
- Request allocation for new Engineering Team, 50pp, will allow 2 x Engineering Ships to be built in Starfleet line yards, providing 2 ep on completion.
- Request an increase in the Research budget, 70pp, +1 yearly Breakthrough.
- Request that an eccentric and esoteric Gaeni defensive project be approved: Dreamer Ranger Gear, 50pp, 20sr, 2 turns
- Request resources for an extra Starfleet Intelligence Operations task group (Will add a Science-heavy event responder for intel events - see notes), 30pp, 1 year, (Offense)
- Request Civil Service cooperation for an early Law Enforcement task group (Will add a balanced event responder for intel events - see notes), 30pp, 1 year
- (9ep used below)
- Request new Auxiliary Shipyard at <Fiiral>, 3ep, 45pp, (12 turns, 1x2mt, 4x1mt Berth)
- Upgrade Convoy Waystations in a particular Sector, 2 ep, 40pp, 4 turns (Gabriel Border Zone)
- Request new Sensor Platform in a system or map square – (Map Square C5, for Kelowna Front) will add an event card to rebuff raiders on that front. 1ep, 10pp
- Request new Sensor Platform in a system or map square – (Becarra System, for Okatha Front) will add an event card to rebuff raiders on that front. 1ep, 10pp
- Upgrade Convoy Waystations in a particular Sector, 2 ep, 40pp, 4 turns (Paddah Sector)
- 8 extra engineering points from members = 40 pp
- = 673 pp total
- Request Research Colony Hill 361 Archive, N'Lask, 9pp, 2 cp, 4 (6.5) rp/year, 4 turns (Sol; may not be transferred to United Earth)
- Request Mining Colony V'Ten, 10 (25) br/year, 15 (35) sr/year, 4 turns (GBZ)
- Request Mining Colony LM-34-V-XL, 14pp, 2 cp, 20 (35) br/yr, 4 turns (Tellar)
- Request Research Colony Morgana-1321, 2 (4.5) rp/year, 4 turns (GBZ)
- Arrange to Pass Control of a potential colony site to a nearby power, gain +10pp from members or +15 relations from affiliates or other powers - Mining Colony Qendip III, 10 (25) br/year) (Rethelia; pass to Ataami) +15 relations
- Request Academy Development, 30pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
- Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Tauni)
- Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Sydraxians)
- Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Misek TAG - [A Bad Neighbourhood])
- Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Bolians)
- Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species without an N/A tag; 20pp (Sotaw)
- Request to start a ship refit project, 20pp, 2 turns for frigates ("low crew" Kepler refit)
- Deploy Improved Listening Posts to a Border Zone to gain a 25% chance of generating +1pt of Intel Spending on reports for powers on that border. (Imelak Border Zone), 20pp
- Deploy Improved Listening Posts to a Border Zone to gain a 25% chance of generating +1pt of Intel Spending on reports for powers on that border. (Rimward Border Zone), 20pp
- Request that an eccentric and esoteric Gaeni defensive project be approved: Dreamer Ranger Gear, 50pp, 20sr, 2 turns
- Request resources for an extra Starfleet Intelligence Operations task group (Will add a Science-heavy event responder for intel events - see notes), 30pp, 1 year, (Defense)
- Request Civil Service cooperation for an early Law Enforcement task group (Will add a balanced event responder for intel events - see notes), 30pp, 1 year
- (9ep used below)
- Request new Auxiliary Shipyard at <Fiiral>, 3ep, 45pp, (12 turns, 1x2mt, 4x1mt Berth)
- Upgrade Convoy Waystations in a particular Sector, 2 ep, 40pp, 4 turns (Gabriel Border Zone)
- Request new Sensor Platform in a system or map square – (Map Square C5, for Kelowna Front) will add an event card to rebuff raiders on that front. 1ep, 10pp
- Request new Sensor Platform in a system or map square – (Becarra System, for Okatha Front) will add an event card to rebuff raiders on that front. 1ep, 10pp
- Upgrade Convoy Waystations in a particular Sector, 2 ep, 40pp, 4 turns (Paddah Sector)
- 8 extra engineering points from members = 40 pp
- Acquire additional resources for Starfleet Intelligence Command, 75pp (Permanently gain +3pt under control of Vice Admiral)
- Request an increase in the Research budget, 70pp, +1 yearly Breakthrough.
- 673 pp total.
[][COUNCIL] Raw90 Safe Snakepit 2326
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With them only needing 10 point they can be given a colony instead that will also provide an income to help with their Limited Stellar Ability.
[X][COUNCIL] Sunrise's no starbase Snakepit 2326
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Raw90 With Derpmind Diplo
[X][Council] Plan Briefvoice With Derpmind Diplo
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Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
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So is it plan Briefmind or plan Derpvoice? I kind of like Derpvoice better.
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I think we've been nervous about spooking the Romulans. If there was an explicit way to get the UFP, Star Empire and Sotaw together to formally recognize the Sotaw as a buffer state, we'd take it in a heartbeat. As it is, we don't want another situation like what happened when we deliberately tried to affiliate Bajor and had to watch the Cardassians roll on in.
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[X] Derpmind
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TBH I'm really quite nervous about suggesting giving a colony away. People are reluctant to do so unless we really need the pp. That, and I'm having no success on figuring out which (if any) colonies are even close to the Ataami.
As for where I'd put a sixth choice, after much quibbling I think the Dobetia Commonwealth is a good choice. They're only 86 points (and a 1 year FDS tag) away from Affiliation, and we made contact with them to help fight against Cardassian expansion and extend our reach. Other choices are the Reborn Compact at 69 points, and the Uaquuo at 114 points. Both are close + friendly candidates for pushing towards Affiliation, but don't have a large-scale impact. Past that, though, most choices are more complicated and have really big numbers and so aren't that great for short- or medium-term planning.
Maybe we used to be nervous, but we've been improving relations for a long time now, most recently even retiring the T'Mir near Kadesh as a permanent memorial to the Biophage Crisis. (Which gave +5 progress to the Sotaw's tag.) Plus, there's nothing that brings people together like a common enemy, and the HoH is big enough to threaten both the UFP and the Romulan Empire. (I mean, it has threatened the Romulans.)
Rawderp.
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@Briefvoice @Raw90
Regardless of one's opinion on pushing existing affiliates or potential affiliates, I think that given the primary rationale for pushing the Misek is "protect smol bugs," it would be wise to specifically target the Bad Neighborhood tag, as Derpmind has pointed out is now possible.
Regardless of one's opinion on pushing existing affiliates or potential affiliates, I think that given the primary rationale for pushing the Misek is "protect smol bugs," it would be wise to specifically target the Bad Neighborhood tag, as Derpmind has pointed out is now possible.
I literally don't understand what you think this will accomplish. Do you extect it to change the narrative where there is no longer a possibility of Events creating a situation where the Misek are threatened by "bad beighbors"? Is that explicitly your expectation?
Because I think it would do no such thing, but at least I'll understand the terms of your objectives.
Seems like an utter waste. There is literally no point to attempting to make the Bolians into affiliates until the whole Harmony infiltration business is resolved... maybe until the whole Harmony situation is resolved.
What's the point in rushing them into Federation influence? Maybe they should get a chance to look at the galaxy for themselves.
See, I think it's the exact opposite. Our willingness to respect the Neutral Zone and not attempt to secure the Sotaw as affiliates has greatly aided relations with the Romulans. I don't want them as affiliates.
Raw90's plan is bad because it doesn't get us the Explorer Corps annex to increase crew. We can use all the crew increases we can get.
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Thank you, but if you really do think so could I convince you to modify your plan to shift the Misek's diplomacy to targeting the tag specifically?
First off, we don't know how the event tables react to our actions. Resolving a tag like this may or may not reduce the chance of negative events that would effect he Misek. Even after that uncertainty, resolving the tag would shift the narrative from any Event the Misek faces away from armed conflict with its neighbors as they'd be better protected by Starfleet and the Federation. Finishing diplomacy tags has always had narrative and gameplay effects, even without upgrading that polity to an Affiliate/Ally/Member. I'm baffled that you think there's no functional difference between resolving a tag several years earlier and just ignoring it.
In the past we've been blocked by needing to wait for Snakepit diplomacy pushes to catch up to resolving tags, and that's been the reason for sending out Task Forces more than a few times. Task Force Welcome, for example, was not aimed at Affiliating polities but instead resolving their relevant tags. Heck, the Azsi are still far away from becoming Affiliates but we sent out a Task Force just to resolve their Continent of Goo tag simply because it was a problem they couldn't resolve themselves. Not much mechanical advantage there, but plenty of narrative reasons for us instead.
On the contrary, the HoH infiltration is an excellent reason. The HoH aren't passive spies who twiddle their thumbs. If their more subversive efforts fail then they might lash out with an overt attempt at a takeover, and if we affiliate them then we're in a much better position to help defend against that kind of attack. Plus affiliating them means it'll be harder for the HoH to hide their actions in Bolian space.
Right now they have the [Obsolete Technology: 65/150] and [Limited Stellar Ability: 60/300] tags. Affiliating with them means those tags will eventually be cleared by our passive diplomacy. I easily expect us to ignore them (outside any Events) for the next decade after this, but if we don't do a diplopush then it might be an entire decade before they manage to luck into crossing that threshold. Plus, we did recently close off Task Force Welcome with them signing a treaty and opening up trade to the Federation, so Affiliating is really the mechanics catching up to the narrative IMO.
In the past, maybe, but you have to remember that the Neutral Zone is also a huge sore point on both sides. In particular the Biophage/Inflictor wouldn't have been the potentially galaxy-ending problem it became if it wasn't able to hide in the Neutral Zone and consume Kadesh. We just sent the T'Mir off as a memorial for the Battle of Kadesh; if there's ever going to be a time to start taking steps to resolve the Neutral Zone it'll be now.
I wasn't about to make an alternative version of one leading plan without making a version for the other one too. And Raw90's 'bad' plan purchases an expansion for Starfleet Intelligence Command whereas your plan doesn't. We need all the intel ability we can get against the juggernaut on our doorstep.
It's not the same sort of intelligence purchases resources. Those points go in the general pool and given that I'm pretty sure the Harmony will already be a priority and have all possible points devoted to it (there's a limit to how many you can spend the way the system works), the most likely result of three extra points is we stay more up to date on the Cardassians or something. Nice, but don't assume it'll help in any way with the current crisis.
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Right now there's a split in the system between intel+counter-intel and gaining upgrades. Last update 13 of our 33 intel points were spent on upgrade options, which included working towards a new level of Encryption and a new "Civilian" ship as a deployable asset for intel teams. Next time it might be, say, one of the upgrades that adds +1S or +1P to some of our intel teams, or even an option that purchases a new intel team outright. Our intel system has plenty of options that will directly impact Discord turns.
At a rough count, we have 15-ish options that are Discord-relevant. Rather than already covering everything, we instead have so many potential options that we couldn't possibly fill all of them.
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I should just check for things to quote first before I start throwing words at the wall...
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Yeah.
The continued existence of the Neutral Zone in canon is a mark of the chronically poor relations between the Federation and the Romulans. Nothing has been done about that matter, not least because we have in general held to a policy of benign neglect towards the Romulans and vice versa. But there is potential for change here, at least under the current Romulan government, and it would be desirable to make that change, if we can.