To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
@SynchronizedWritersBlock dont we need that second 3mt berth at San Fran in order to do parallel builds there? Efficiency or not, that makes up for it.
Kind of but not really. Serial builds also provide the same benefit. So only one single ship, the first one Ambassador we build there, will be disadvantaged.
I mean, if you want a year from the next two Excelsior-A for 33pp, I would argue that's not worth it at all.
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Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
I think the only times we should make direct influence on who joins first is when there are strategic considerations or the like, circumstances when having one member sooner than the other can give us meaningful advantages to our current goals/
But there should be other more political options for us to do, like talking to the parties, rather than a snakepit option.
Course, that option is not without risks as we would be butting in outside of our mandate and playing with the political power far more than we should. that said, trying to get an idea of whom is going to join first wouldn't be out of place, since we will need to start reorganizing and redirecting our assets and deployments once that happens.
That said I would love to have the risans join us soonish. we really need their Party Party
KnightDisciple
Brotherhood. Unity. Peace.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Thanks for the notice. I'll maintain my vote being on your plan, as I'm fine with those changes, and like a couple of the things you do that SWB's plan doesn't the (Medical reorg in particular).
Pay 180pp to have the Fiiral join but not the Seyek. See if we can start a civil war 
KnightDisciple
Brotherhood. Unity. Peace.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Maximum Stesk Frowns.Pay 180pp to have the Fiiral join but not the Seyek. See if we can start a civil war
Uggggh. I was fine with the logistics thing before, but I think tying in a UP yard is a bad idea. And you're adding it too... I don't recall seeing it in the ambition before. Why?
NHO
Dumb is a state of existence
- Location
- ᓚᘏᗢ
[X][COUNCIL] 2317 Snakepit – Intelligence and EC Reorg
[X][TECH] Inid Uttar Institute (Sk 3, Sensors / Propulsion)
[X][TECH] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute (Sk 3, Starbases / Minerals)
[X][AMB] Announce new Starfleet Ambition: Infrastructure Development.
[X][TECH] Inid Uttar Institute (Sk 3, Sensors / Propulsion)
[X][TECH] Henn-Makad Engineering Institute (Sk 3, Starbases / Minerals)
[X][AMB] Announce new Starfleet Ambition: Infrastructure Development.
- Location
- USA
It makes one less 3mt berth that has the heavy industry bonus and unless we grab one there later stops making 7 Ambassadors quickly.
Basically it will save 1 year each on 2 Excelsior-A and 1 years on two ambassadors and a year on each ambassador that is building at the second berth which can add up over time
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It was always there?
e: As for the why, for me it's mostly for security reasons. Earth may be relatively safe, but opposing intelligence agencies will certainly target UP and that's not even counting Sol-homing-enemies like the Borg. This is taking the absurdly long-term view, though, and "start preparations" doesn't mean anything other than, within the next 10 years, buying the single "start preparations" Snakepit item.
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My eyes must have skipped over it. I really do not see what an extra UP yard has to do with being logistically self-sufficient. Locking us into starting preparations for a UP yard that we might then not want to actually build seems like a bad idea.
EDIT: Also seems to cozy up to Development in an unfortunate way. Picking Ambitions they like makes them stronger, which makes them do better in elections, which makes life worse for Starfleet.
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I don't know where you got this from but Ambassadors take 4.75 years to complete so a 25% reduction in construction time drops them down to 3.5 (3.5625 to be precise) years. That is a reduction of 1.25 years not 2.0 years.
We still have ample opportunity to add a second berth in time for parallel Ambassador production.
Well, the vote as I intended it isn't about being logistically self-sufficient but about showing a Starfleet commitment to infrastructure development. That's the reason there's a new engineering team in there, and the reason why it forces us to commit to a new UP-style yard somewhere within 10 years.
If I wanted a logistical goal only, I would have named it Logistics something.
It's true that I also want a better working relationship with Development. Having one party be the Enemy Party is bad for the quest.
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Can you make the case for why Starfleet should show a commitment to infrastructure development, something that while we're not opposed to per se isn't really high on the list of Starfleet... well, of Starfleet ambitions as I understand it? Why should we want want infrastructure development to be a core goal, rather than something we do as we need to do it, but not more than we really need?
- Location
- USA
I blame using a phone for entry, fixed that to 1
They're not the enemy, but it's unrealistic to expect all parties to favor us equally. I think creating an Ambition designed to please them snubs the other parties to gain with a party who is never going to be 100% enthusiastic about us. That's my political assessment anyway.
(Yes, the ambition I am favoring is probably not too pleasant for the Pacifists to hear, but at least it's unarguably a core Starfleet mission.)
- Location
- USA
So why not add it now and benefit from 2 quicker Excelsior-A as well?
Why was making the Ambassador a core goal, rather than something we did because we needed to have better EC missions? I think you're mistaking the Starfleet ambition for something it's not. We're saying that *within X time*, this is what we want to focus on accomplishing. If we based it on core goals, something like "within 5 years we want to make 5 peaceful first contacts" would be a core goal. But we don't make goals like that, every ambition has been a secondary goal.
As for infrastructure development, I see the goals as stated to be forward-looking to support future expansion. If Starfleet were forward-looking rather than filling in behind us as demand increased, we might have had logistics and engineering and shipyards ready to go in the Kahurangi era. Specifically: Logistical self-sufficiency creates room to expand our logistics footprint. An additional engineering team creates room to work on a likely increase in engineering projects as the Federation grows. A new UP-style shipyard decentralizes the Federation for security reasons and will represent (as it slowly comes online) the capacity to build to our new defense needs, as they'll stand... in 20 years.
If you aren't looking 10-20 years ahead but rather 2-3 years behind, then of course you won't see the point to this. But the Starfleet ambition should be forward-looking. It should be the most forward-looking thing we do in the quest.
Because it's not worth the opportunity cost.
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- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Council spending seems fine to me, not really a fan of that ambition. I agree that considering one of the political parties an enemy is a bad idea, but I disagree that deliberately cozying up to them is a good idea either - they're already in power, we don't need to suck up to them.
We're giving them what they want in regards to logistical development anyway, we don't need to hand them political victories to our detriment.
[X][COUNCIL] 2317 Snakepit – Intelligence and EC Reorg
[X][AMB] Announce new Starfleet Ambition: Maintain a strong Forward Defense.
- (Complete at least six Forward Defense technologies, put a Starbase in every Border Zone, and complete the first slide of Foreign Analysis Research for both the Harmony of Horizon and the Klingon Empire.)
- FD "technologies" means 6 full slides.
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It's definitely too early to start plans for a new UP yard and at the moment all it does is help the party that's been getting the most hate in the last few hundred pages. It might be better to put it in a system that's going to favor the expansionists aka the Honiani when they join in a few years. Plus, they're going definitely going to be the coreward hub of the federation anyway so it seems like a good place and it thematically fits.
Thanks, thanks, that's a good explanation. I am still totally opposed, but I at least understand your point.
If I were to make a similar point, I want the Forward Defense goal to lay the groundwork for an Expansion-focused Starfleet that actively tries to seek out information on new threats or potential allies before they end up on our shores. That gets information faster on polities like Horizon and that makes a point on keeping a close tab on what other great powers are up to. Outward focused rather than inward, creating ground to completely encircle the Federation with border zones in 20 years.
Now that smacks of "you're not looking ahead" and is annoying.
Mainly my plan is about not spending 70 pp on an Extra Intelligence report rather than the fairly minor point about the SF berth expansion. It's not super cost effective, but so what? It "wastes" maybe 10 pp and gives a little love to the SF yard. Let's not get too obsessed with one specific build plan at SF.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
I like none of the plans. SWB has the colonies, but does away with the SF Excelsior Berth.
...
Well, I suppose the colonies can wait.
I want Ambassadors more than I want to be able to pay for them
As for Ambition, I think we should do an Expansionist ambition
...
Well, I suppose the colonies can wait.
I want Ambassadors more than I want to be able to pay for them
As for Ambition, I think we should do an Expansionist ambition
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X][COUNCIL] 2317 Snakepit – Intelligence and EC Reorg
[X][AMB] Announce new Starfleet Ambition: Maintain a strong Forward Defense.
- (Complete at least six Forward Defense technologies, put a Starbase in every Border Zone, and complete the first slide of Foreign Analysis Research for both the Harmony of Horizon and the Klingon Empire.)
- FD "technologies" means 6 full slides.
[X][AMB] Announce new Starfleet Ambition: Maintain a strong Forward Defense.
- (Complete at least six Forward Defense technologies, put a Starbase in every Border Zone, and complete the first slide of Foreign Analysis Research for both the Harmony of Horizon and the Klingon Empire.)
- FD "technologies" means 6 full slides.