All indications show a rivalry that SF is winning - we get the first contacts, for instance.

Still, under the Duranium Lady, relations improved.

Headcanon:

The diplopushes are us spending political influence to convince the council to order FDS to dispatch a team aboard a fast courier ship to the relevant location.

They improved up until we shoved their head under the bus during the Caitian Ratification Incident, which it seems like they are only just recovering from in terms of prestige and trust. Plus they weren't very happy with all the events we missed during the Arcadian War. Relations are probably better than they were in 2300 coming off the Rogers administration, but still not great.
 
They improved up until we shoved their head under the bus during the Caitian Ratification Incident, which it seems like they are only just recovering from in terms of prestige and trust. Plus they weren't very happy with all the events we missed during the Arcadian War. Relations are probably better than they were in 2300 coming off the Rogers administration, but still not great.

If they want to point fingers about the Acadian war they can point then at a certain Cat President. We wanted that war probably less than they did.... (Muh sector event bonii > : [ )
 
Besides we normally get the FDS to handle internal disputes, with more of a consulting role on external ones; Starfleet is the execution branch of Federation policy towards other powers so we have input because we know what's feasible for us.
 
If they want to point fingers about the Acadian war they can point then at a certain Cat President. We wanted that war probably less than they did.... (Muh sector event bonii > : [ )

I mean, we could have managed those events fine. We just would have had to draw down in the GBZ. In my mind the FDS sees the whole GBZ war as pointless saber-rattling and posturing. Which it is from a diplomatic standpoint.
 
I mean, we could have managed those events fine. We just would have had to draw down in the GBZ. In my mind the FDS sees the whole GBZ war as pointless saber-rattling and posturing. Which it is from a diplomatic standpoint.

Sadly it seems the Cardassians /want/ pointless saber rattling and posturing and cant be dissuaded away from it.
 
Another thought that occurred to me about the Cardassians sending a fleet around to infiltrate and hit our rimward flank from Lecarre space...

If they do send a force like that, they have to worry about repair options. Look at the kinds of shipyards our affiliates and member races have, here. I doubt either the Lecarre or the Dawiar have more than, say, half a dozen starship berths, simply because they couldn't possibly fund enough construction to justify having more, even given the need for reserve capacity for repairs.

Plus, I don't think we've ever seen any indication of a Dawiar or Lecarre ship big enough to classify as an explorer. If they even have a berth big enough to accomodate a 1.2-megaton Jaldun, let alone a 1.5-megaton Kaldar, it'd probably be the single biggest, heaviest berth type either species owns.

It's likely they only have one or two such berths each. And (again) going by the typical 'generic' designs we've seen kicking around the quadrant from minor species, even if the Lecarre or Dawiar have been building up their armed forces avidly (we know this for the Dawiar and can reasonably infer it for the Lecarre)... they're almost certainly focusing on building much smaller and cheaper frigates more in line with their own economic capability. Which, again, probably leaves them with a lot of berths too small to accomodate a Cardassian cruiser.

As a result, any Cardassian fleet fighting a protracted conflict on our rimward frontier would have serious problems getting its ships repaired. As soon as they had a difficult run-in with a powerful enemy force (say, the entire Qloathi navy), the battle damage cases stack up and cannot be repaired in a timely fashion.

And whereas we can tow damaged ships away from a war in the Licori or Gabriel Border Zones and get them repaired easily at a berth halfway across the Federation through secure territory... the Cardassians don't have it so easy. Their supply route runs invitingly close to Seyek/Qloathi space, and either of those races would see a relatively easy, cheap victory in ambushing a damaged warship under tow back home at low to medium warp.

...

So they want to repair ships on site, and towing them away to be repaired in Cardassian space is costly, time-consuming, and risky... but the local fleet bases can't handle their ships very well.

To get around this, they'd have to prebuild repair berths in Lecarre space, berths the Lecarre themselves cannot use, and that the Cardassians probably can't use to build ships without attracting our attention. This would require years of advanced preparation and significantly increase the risk of the whole operation being discovered.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea for us to try and figure out if the Cardassians are building a secret fleet repair base somewhere to rimward of us. But if they aren't, that strongly indicates they aren't planning major fleet operations down there. They might detach a squadron to put some steel in the Lecarre's backbone and encourage the Dawiar to not just declare neutrality and have done with it. But I wouldn't expect a big fleet consisting of multiple task forces.
 
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We actually have like, almost no idea what the Lacarre have or don't have, and I don't think we've been keeping up with the Daiwar.

We should consider some intel actions in those areas. Probably gives Wolfe something to do, too
 
I agree that we should do some reconnaissance and intelligence work. Probably talk to the Qloathi, who are not so strictly bound by the Treaty of Celos and may have information we lack.

But unless either of those species is a military-industrial powerhouse with a very "big ship" oriented fleet (e.g. Rigel), the Cardassians still have the problem I described- lack of berthing infrastructure to repair their cruisers. And I really doubt the Lecarre or Dawiar have the explorer/heavy cruiser focus of people like the Rigellians.

I think it more likely that the Lecarre and Dawiar navies, in terms of their distribution of tonnage, look more like a sort of mirror universe version of the Betazoids- a high/low configuration where their 'high' is around our idea of 'medium' and their 'low' is our 'comically puny.' The difference being that all the tonnage the Betazoids and the Risans pour into high Presence and Defense for their peaceful ships, the Lecarre and Dawiar would be investing in more guns.

Now, it may be that the Cardies really lucked out and the Lecarre have, say, three of what for them are "explorer berths" of 1.5 megatons. But Sarek actually physically reached their home system, so I'd think we'd have noticed if their ships averaged 'big.' Though to be fair, our first contact with the Lecarre saw Straak describe their ship as a 'cruiser' back in 2308Q3...
 
It's a big unknown, and for all we know the Cardassians have been expanding repair berths in Lacarre space.

Knowing would help us figure out if there are any moves towards a southern strategy. The appearance of Cardassian-funded 2.5MT berths in Lacarre space might make us seriously rethink our posture, and would help the Seyek and Qloathi.
 
Yes, as I mentioned post before last. I'm not saying we shouldn't look for secret Cardassian military bases down there. I'm saying that if we look and don't find such bases, we have reason to think the Cardassians are NOT planning major operations down there. Furthermore, even if we don't look, there are reasons to think it relatively less likely that they will send a major fleet down there, simply because of the logsitical difficulties.
 
Man though, if they did strike via Lacarre space, it might be a problem for the Seyek.

They could run right to Fiiral and conquer it, and play to tensions there. Especially if the Seyek have kept Fiiral demilitarized all this time.

"TODAY, WE LIBERATE YOU."
 
Thing about such a fleet, @Simon_Jester, is it doesn't have to seek any difficult fights. It has to menace and poke and raid, but the main point is to force us to respond and lock down any forces we'd send to reinforce Indoria, while dodging true engagements. 60-80c would be enough - it sounds like a large commitment, but on the scale of the war it wouldn't even rank in the top 5 fleets. Sure, we could catch it with a larger force, but that's entirely down to luck. Even if the entire fleet got destroyed, they'd obviously not want such a thing, but as long as they inflicted damage and bought time that prevented our forces from reinforcing the main fronts like the Bajor/Indoria area, it might be a strategic success.
 
[X][PRIORITY] Change Betazoid Long Term Priority to "Second One-Megaton Berth."
[X][CAL] Ignore
[X][EC] Pick an Explorer Corps ship to carry this out (USS Odyssey)
[X][LOG] Start 2 Starfleet Cargo Ships at Irrizizza for 8pp
[X][GAENI] 100sr for 150br
[X][CATS] 1 Fathership, 4 Swarmers
[X][REN] Endorse the tech transfer
[X][BEE] Exchange resources with the Orion
[X][ENTER] Send the survivors to existing ships
-[X] Courageous, Odyssey, and Tarrak
 
rather go more into the none claimed space and little less saber rattling
ya sure keep combat strong fleet close and support what is already there.
we have a lot of space coming into our hat right now
and i do not think we have the ships to cover all the space

so shore up on the borders, build some reserve and scout out up and down i say
maybe get some more small yards started too spread out the industry a bit more
i think the focus is find more outside and build more inside if that makes sense

i am not sure i am communicating myself well
 
We should start thinking about either building more Oberth Class starships or begin designing a whole new class of Science Starships.
 
We are expanding out to unexplored space. It's what the Explorer Corps does pretty much automatically. Right now discussion is looking more at the GBZ and Cardassians right now because we're in charge of countering the potential strategies they might use.

EC direction is sort of our of our control. Affilaites are often the best way to expand, and if you look at our "north east" on the map we're already making good progress out that way. I am surprised they're not going more Rimwards, but I suspect A) that was where the original FYMs went, and B ) they're worried about being open to a Lacarre flank.
 
EC direction is sort of our of our control. Affilaites are often the best way to expand, and if you look at our "north east" on the map we're already making good progress out that way. I am surprised they're not going more Rimwards, but I suspect A) that was where the original FYMs went, and B ) they're worried about being open to a Lacarre flank.

There is also the fact that according to the Ittick-ka, which I think alos claim a significant part of the space in that region, interactions most of the civilizations there fall under the Prime Directive which doesn't make it a good region to expand into.


And the FDS suffers from the fact that Starfleet is the protagonist of this story/quest and thus nearly all actions/initiative originate from us, with diplomacy (as well as intellegience gathering) being a key activity in this quest which doesn't leave much room for them to do things.
 
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Thing about such a fleet, @Simon_Jester, is it doesn't have to seek any difficult fights. It has to menace and poke and raid, but the main point is to force us to respond and lock down any forces we'd send to reinforce Indoria, while dodging true engagements. 60-80c would be enough - it sounds like a large commitment, but on the scale of the war it wouldn't even rank in the top 5 fleets. Sure, we could catch it with a larger force, but that's entirely down to luck. Even if the entire fleet got destroyed, they'd obviously not want such a thing, but as long as they inflicted damage and bought time that prevented our forces from reinforcing the main fronts like the Bajor/Indoria area, it might be a strategic success.

I've lost track... what action is it that you want people to vote for?
 
I've lost track... what action is it that you want people to vote for?

Why does discussion have to be about a vote?

Ultimately the best precautions would be to:
1. Maintain awareness of weakness on the rimward front 3-5 years down the line.
2. Build listening posts on the Lecarre border.
3. Push to more closely integrate the Seyek and Qloathi militaries into the Federation structure if tensions with Cardassia are rising.
4. As things come to a head, start talking to the Dawiar.
 
speaking of maybe i am missing it but there are a lot of factions i do not see on the diplomatic line up
being the one we just fought a war against?

other then some of them do not show on map so do not know if they are inportant in anyway
 
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So with Sarek going in for refit, I don't think we actually require a vote on FYM captains this year. So it'll be back to rolling for me tonight.

speaking of maybe i am missing it but there are a lot of factions i do not see on the diplomatic line up
one of them being the Qloathi !
the other being the one we just fought a war against?
Qloathi should be among the affiliates list. The Licori are among the 'other candidates' list on the front page.
 
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