- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
We really need to get more liason things going. I feel like we are real light in office politics
Super Robot Quest
- Thread starter Basarin
- Start date
- Original Sci-Fi
Winged One
Not the Simurgh
- Location
- definitely the ground
- Pronouns
- They/Them/It
Had a look and moved Katarina to a second Liason option for my plan. I picked the GDF because we're only neutral with them and I expect the GDF will be present in many future engagements.
[X] Plan N3
- Location
- Germany
[X] Plan N3
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
Alright, so I have a few issues with Plan N3:
1. We don't need more support units. We need combination units. The Sledder fills no niche in our deployment, but we need a combination unit for Perseus. We can build the Sledder when we have more fully kitted out Super robot teams.
2. Fabricating a Heat Knife: Why do we need this? An energy shard kit would probably be far more useful in combat
3. We just researched improvements for energy blasters, but we need to apply them via "Practical Applications"
4. Hand Held Blaster Cannons is mildly unclear as to what is desired? Support unit weapons?
5. We aren't even sure what we can do with Empathetic Boosters aside from improve the MMI, we should put some general research into them before trying for specific things.
6. I don't think we need active monitoring too much at the moment, we are already investigating Blue September
As for what Perseus could use for a combination form, what comes to mind for me is something like the HVSTL (a prototype US tank with a 90 mm gun and a 0.5 sec reload), the Stryker MGS, or maybe an SPAA like Tunguska.
[X] Plan Firepower
-[X] Military
--[X] Blue September
--- [X] Adriana
--[X] Liaison: General Li/GDF
---[X] Diana
--[X] Liaison: Captain Dana Candle/NDF
--- [X] Haruko Sasaki
-[X] Engineering
--[X] Triple Combination - Prototyping
--- [X] Wilde and Henry
--- [X] Katarina
--[X] Practical Applications: Energy Blaster improvements
--- [X] Lana
--[X] Practical Applications: Design Perseus Combination Unit
---[X] CRX-G2-02 "Sledder"
---[X] Jiro Yukimura
--[X] Equipment Fabrication
--- [X] Energy Shard Kit
--- [X] The Build Team
--[X] Enemy Wreckage Analysis: Drone Wreckage
--- [X] Boris Ignatov
-[X] Science
--[X] Explore K-Class Psychic Augmentation
--- [X] SAM CARLSON
--- [X] Making Temporary effects last longer
--[X] Kausen Equipment
--- [X] Zulu
--- [X] Support unit scale Energy Blasters
--[X] Gifts of the Regent (Empathic Booster)
--- [X] Max Brand
--[X] Investigate K-Fang Ranged attacks
---[X] Ivanna
--[X] Faedium
---[X] Mary
Edit: Forgot Ivanna
Edit 2: changed combination unit build to Sledder
1. We don't need more support units. We need combination units. The Sledder fills no niche in our deployment, but we need a combination unit for Perseus. We can build the Sledder when we have more fully kitted out Super robot teams.
2. Fabricating a Heat Knife: Why do we need this? An energy shard kit would probably be far more useful in combat
3. We just researched improvements for energy blasters, but we need to apply them via "Practical Applications"
4. Hand Held Blaster Cannons is mildly unclear as to what is desired? Support unit weapons?
5. We aren't even sure what we can do with Empathetic Boosters aside from improve the MMI, we should put some general research into them before trying for specific things.
6. I don't think we need active monitoring too much at the moment, we are already investigating Blue September
As for what Perseus could use for a combination form, what comes to mind for me is something like the HVSTL (a prototype US tank with a 90 mm gun and a 0.5 sec reload), the Stryker MGS, or maybe an SPAA like Tunguska.
[X] Plan Firepower
-[X] Military
--[X] Blue September
--- [X] Adriana
--[X] Liaison: General Li/GDF
---[X] Diana
--[X] Liaison: Captain Dana Candle/NDF
--- [X] Haruko Sasaki
-[X] Engineering
--[X] Triple Combination - Prototyping
--- [X] Wilde and Henry
--- [X] Katarina
--[X] Practical Applications: Energy Blaster improvements
--- [X] Lana
--[X] Practical Applications: Design Perseus Combination Unit
---[X] CRX-G2-02 "Sledder"
---[X] Jiro Yukimura
--[X] Equipment Fabrication
--- [X] Energy Shard Kit
--- [X] The Build Team
--[X] Enemy Wreckage Analysis: Drone Wreckage
--- [X] Boris Ignatov
-[X] Science
--[X] Explore K-Class Psychic Augmentation
--- [X] SAM CARLSON
--- [X] Making Temporary effects last longer
--[X] Kausen Equipment
--- [X] Zulu
--- [X] Support unit scale Energy Blasters
--[X] Gifts of the Regent (Empathic Booster)
--- [X] Max Brand
--[X] Investigate K-Fang Ranged attacks
---[X] Ivanna
--[X] Faedium
---[X] Mary
Edit: Forgot Ivanna
Edit 2: changed combination unit build to Sledder
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...Its right there in the unit biography. Being able to combine with things like the Perseus and the Centurion are one of the primary design goals of the concept in the first place.
The major stumbling block for things like the triple combination are issues with the power sources being incompatible. The major issue for combining with the Perseus is we lack units capable of providing the core unit with the mobility to make the combination worthwhile in the first place.
The Sledder addresses both those issues while also filling a niche in it's own right as a second generation production unit.
While also being just a straight upgrade to the Jackal from the perspective of the Defense Forces.
Saying it doesn't fill a niche is just a plain lie. It very clearly fills several.
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Chron, do you think we'd be able to add some of the Sledders upgrades to the Timberwolf Formation?
But yeah, the Sledder looks to be pretty much custom designed to solve a lot of the Perseus' issues, and with the Centurion functionality it should also work as an armor pack for Ichiro.
But yeah, the Sledder looks to be pretty much custom designed to solve a lot of the Perseus' issues, and with the Centurion functionality it should also work as an armor pack for Ichiro.
Yeah, that's one of the ideas behind it basically being a Second Generation iteration of the Jackal. The same kinds of stuff would be able to get carried over to similar frames from the same series, such as the Beowulf or whatever the Super Robot friendly version of the Sledder winds up being called.
The latter of which would be the ones going into propping up the super heavy armor via combinations.
Edit: In the most ideal circumstances, we could get the AI trio into three of said hypothetical frames, and have them be the ones to team up with the Perseus Crew for maximum coordination buffs.
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Hmm, been thinking on the One Time use Items, what are the chances we can setup something like the FAST Packs from Macross.
For those that don't know what that is, it's essentialy a set of Chobham Armor, Fuel, Vernier Thrusters, and some extra guns that are loaded up before launch and can be jettisoned if need be. I know it's less effective for a Combiner type Mech, but it should be highly usable by our Super AI mechs, and give us some options for our Core Units when their support units inevitably gets destroyed by the villains to show just how serious things are getting.
For those that don't know what that is, it's essentialy a set of Chobham Armor, Fuel, Vernier Thrusters, and some extra guns that are loaded up before launch and can be jettisoned if need be. I know it's less effective for a Combiner type Mech, but it should be highly usable by our Super AI mechs, and give us some options for our Core Units when their support units inevitably gets destroyed by the villains to show just how serious things are getting.
- Location
- Germany
I dont see why they have to be mutually exclusive, which in this case from what I understand it aint?
Also upgraded version of old versions is how technology works. Gotta bring in that cash and up the level of the military at the same time.
Logisticians wet dream: Multitasking.
I do have a couple of problems with plan N3.
1) Why put Zulu and Ivanna on the same project? She offers no bonus to that, might as well put her on a new action.
2) It's not specified what Enemy Wreckage Ignatov researches; I assume it meant to be the drone wreckage since then he gets his Kausen bonus but it should probably be specified.
3) Why is Lana working on constructing a super robot instead of Henry and Wilde who can expedite it?
1) Why put Zulu and Ivanna on the same project? She offers no bonus to that, might as well put her on a new action.
2) It's not specified what Enemy Wreckage Ignatov researches; I assume it meant to be the drone wreckage since then he gets his Kausen bonus but it should probably be specified.
3) Why is Lana working on constructing a super robot instead of Henry and Wilde who can expedite it?
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
To be more specific, I don't see a way it would add much to the Perseus as a combination form
- Sure, it is more agile than the Perseus, but I don't think that would translate to an agile combination form, going off of how the Timberwolf formation isn't agile even though the core is.
- The enhanced engine doesn't matter as much, since it seems we will need to refit our super robots with K-tech engines for triple combination. We need to wait for Triple combination to be researched before this can be done.
- The Tow Cable/Cable launcher isn't very interesting to me. In combat, maybe it could be used to pull enemies in, but Perseus is bad at hitting stuff in melee, which is why I want its combinations to give it more guns.
- Being a Second generation machine isn't a niche. This is a jackal replacement, but I don't see why we need a new Jackal.
I have a fairly specific goal in mind for the Perseus combinations, which is as follows:
Combination 1: Focused on destroying swarms of enemies. Perseus would open with this combination to clear out mooks.
Combination 2: Single target firepower focus. Perseus would switch to this combination once mainly the biggest enemies are left.
I can't think of a way a "better Jackal" like the Sledder really fits into the Perseus. That isn't to say that I'm against building it as a normal production unit, I just don't want it as a combination form
Also, I figure we should follow Devin's own advice, and outline what we want the combination forms to do, instead of what they should be:
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...That's because the frame is the overly armored, tank like behemoth. The Beowulf is integrated entirely as for Core Unit.
Naturally the Sledder isnt going to fulfill the same role nor have the same effect.
Triple Combination is being researched. Production line models need to come first before the super robot variants can be set up.
This is a literal non-issue.
...I'm not sure I understand.
You're saying that the cables wouldnt do much save to bring things into easy range to exploit its build and weight. Which you noted was a notorious weak point of the Perseus normally.
At least you're sticking to your guns even if it's a strawman.
Honestly, why make up all these easily called out excuses just to say you dont like it? I'm all ears for your alternative proposal when you bring it out.
If you bring it out. Like I pointed out before you're very obviously trying to mislead people on the intended sells behind the Sledder and it's more than slightly offensive to see this happen when it's just a matter of you having a personal preference different from the solution I'm proposing to existing problems. I spelled out a ton of niches it could fit in terms of functionality beyond "Its a second gen Jackal". The least you can do when dismissing the idea is acknowledging them.
There's really no need to muddy the waters when there's no stakes to this. We made the Shade and the other thing work. We can do the Sledder and whatever Heavy Armor Standing Turret Combination you come up with later too.
Variable Combination is convenient like that.
Edit: I put considerable thought into how to approach this. I'd be grateful if someone dismissing it had more to bring to the table than a vague dislike for the concept.
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@Thors_Alumni, why is Ivanna on the same project as Zulu? It's basically a wasted advisor action since she doesn't add anything. Might as well throw her on making use of Kausen Technology or C-Crystals.
EDIT: If I'm making a nuisance of myself I might as well commit, @Basarin we had Bandit rifles analysis result by Henry and Wilde and Zulu both note that they will open new engineering options but I can't find them?
EDIT: If I'm making a nuisance of myself I might as well commit, @Basarin we had Bandit rifles analysis result by Henry and Wilde and Zulu both note that they will open new engineering options but I can't find them?
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- Location
- Seattle, Washington
For these points I was arguing that what you consider benefits to the design probably wouldn't actually have much of an effect. I will admit that I could totally be wrong on these points, it comes down to guessing.
My thinking was from a game mechanics standpoint. The Perseus strikes at disadvantage (1d6) instead of at 2d6 like most robots do. I am assuming that the cable launcher would probably end up being some sort of debuff against enemies, and thus wouldn't contribute to damage output. On the other hand, I figure giving the Perseus more guns when combined is a way to side-step the issue of poor strike accuracy. (IE we shoot instead of striking)
To my view, it doesn't have that many niches, I was trying to spell out why I didn't consider the features you pointed out to be niches that the Sledder fills.
Heres a quick write-up for what I would rather have as the combination support unit for Perseus
A one-off design akin to the SV-10 Shepard, the Sarisa is based on the M2000 "Puma" Wheeled Tank Destroyer, built to combine with the Perseus. It mounts the Puma's 90mm rapid-fire cannon, which can reload in under a second, providing the Perseus with the firepower to quickly take down groups of lighter enemies.
Inspiration: HSTV-L (prototype light tank that mounted a 75mm cannon with 0.5 second reload), M1128 MGS, AMX-10 RC
Inspiration: HSTV-L (prototype light tank that mounted a 75mm cannon with 0.5 second reload), M1128 MGS, AMX-10 RC
Ultimately, this comes down to: I don't consider the Sledder to be interesting as a combination vehicle, and I don't consider your points to be very strong when it comes to using the Sledder as the combination for Perseus, and so I am arguing against them. I do believe we need to build a combination for the Perseus at this time, so I am advocating for what I envision for the Perseus. I would not be opposed to building the Sledder as a standard production unit after we build a combination for Perseus, the Sledder would probably be welcomed by the First Response Corps.
- Location
- Germany
Forgive me when I say that cable towing sounds a lot more fun and useful than a tank cannon strapped on just for the sake of a tank and a cannon
Plus given this is a Super Robot genre, having a utility item like towing cables can come in very handy if you need to grapple something or trip a opposing mecha up.
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
[X] Plan N3
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
Ok, since people seem to prefer the Sledder I've edited my plan accordingly
NaanContributor
Provider of delicious flatbread, and nothing else.
- Location
- Hawaii
[X] Plan Firepower
I do like the greater investment in more advanced ranged weapons. The fact that some of our forces are still reliant on mundane munitions is kind of embarrassing.
I do like the greater investment in more advanced ranged weapons. The fact that some of our forces are still reliant on mundane munitions is kind of embarrassing.
Wolf... I hate to say this, but that's less a combination, and more just a really big gun.
Feels more like a Finisher weapon.
Feels more like a Finisher weapon.