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2187: Project Soyuz (Propulsion)
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    • [X] Inline Deflector and Nacelles (Reduced Space)

    The inline deflector takes its due - the forward nose of the Soyuz is carved away to provide a protected divot for the primary dish, while the internal components occupy a substantial part of the bow. The nacelles are likewise partially inset into the wings of the arrowhead, the primary warp conduit splitting just outside main engineering to run port and starboard. The plasma vents on the Type-3 are now in a position to vent above and below the ship, and fortunately the housing for the warp coils is a perfect cylinder, which means you can simply rotate them inside the assembly to tune the warp field for this nonstandard hull shape.

    With main engineering and the warp core taking up the center aft, that only leaves the port and starboard sections for the impulse engines. Two Type-2 thrusters will push the Soyuz most of the way to the theoretical maximum, but the sheer mass of the ship imposes penalties that stop it from matching the turn times of a smaller starship like the Skate. As it turns out there may be a solution. The current impulse thrusters use a fusion reactor to energize and heat the propellant before passing them through a set of accelerator coils powered by the primary EPS system. By installing a shunt from the electroplasma, the propellant could be further enhanced before it even reaches the coils, increasing the thrust enough to push the Soyuz all the way to its maximum theoretical maneuverability.

    The downside is the additional expense. While the order can be taken up by civilian industry you would essentially be paying twice as much for each engine due to the added complexity. Is the extra capability worth the extra cost?

    [ ] Two Type-2 Thrusters (Maneuverability: High)
    [ ] Two Enhanced Type-2 Thrusters (Maneuverability: Very High) (Civilian Cost: 30 -> 35)



    Two Hour Moratorium, Please
     
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    • [ ] Two Enhanced Type-2 Thrusters (Maneuverability: Very High) (Civilian Cost: 30 -> 35)

    Gotta go fast. The best defense against a cloaked ship is to be able to react to it suddenly uncloaking faster than it can react to your reaction.
     
    [ ] Two Enhanced Type-2 Thrusters (Maneuverability: Very High) (Civilian Cost: 30 -> 35)

    Is the cost wort hit?

    In this particular context? Absolutely. Speed is Armor, and the more we have, the less risk any individual is at.
     
    I'm really liking the look that we have going on for this ship. As for our options:

    [ ] Two Enhanced Type-2 Thrusters (Maneuverability: Very High) (Civilian Cost: 30 -> 35)

    I'm going to go with this. The extra cost is pretty low, but the extra maneuverability is more helpful to get out of trouble.
     
    yeah speed is key for this ship becouse speed is survival, especially against targets like a bird of prey which is itself increadibly fast.

    better to pay dubble for the engines than have to replace the ship losses
     
    strictpig said:
    I'm really liking the look that we have going on for this ship. As for our options:

    [ ] Two Enhanced Type-2 Thrusters (Maneuverability: Very High) (Civilian Cost: 30 -> 35)

    I'm going to go with this. The extra cost is pretty low, but the extra maneuverability is more helpful to get out of trouble.
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    Let's be real, that's a significant added cost.

    But in this context, it's absolutely worth it. Very High Manueverability combined with an actually cohesive crew? I'd give this good odds of throwing down with Birds of Prey as a peer, especially since it's not spending a lot of its budget on the Cloak and making Klingon Promotions more difficult.

    This was what we were hoping for when we kept our mass costs down after all. Pay more to save lives here. And even beyond that, this will be a very scary escort frigate at this rate, with a rather elegant design to boot.

    Most importantly though? Its targetting profile would make it an absolute bitch to try and fish for a critical hit on to boot, and with Very High Maneuverability, there isn't much in space that could hope to deny it from engaging from a favored angle, outside of a total ambush.
     
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    Alectai said:
    Let's be real, that's a significant added cost.

    But in this context, it's absolutely worth it. Very High Manueverability combined with an actually cohesive crew? I'd give this good odds of throwing down with Birds of Prey as a peer, especially since it's not spending a lot of its budget on the Cloak and making Klingon Promotions more difficult.

    This was what we were hoping for when we kept our mass costs down after all. Pay more to save lives here. And even beyond that, this will be a very scary escort frigate at this rate, with a rather elegant design to boot.
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    It also means that, because it has the HIGHEST maneuver rating, we don't need to worry overly about aft armament. We can afford to save cost by putting ALL the weapons on the front and just accepting decent incidental side coverage.

    A bird of prey coming off cloak directly to aft should be responded to by flipping the fuck around and shooting it with the photon torpedoes before it can raise shields.
     
    Fouredged Sword said:
    It also means that, because it has the HIGHEST maneuver rating, we don't need to worry overly about aft armament. We can afford to save cost by putting ALL the weapons on the front and just accepting decent incidental side coverage.

    A bird of prey coming off cloak directly to aft should be responded to by flipping the fuck around and shooting it with the photon torpedoes before it can raise shields.
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    Or hell, just pulling off an evasive maneuver, with VH Mobility, they'd need to get right up in your face to reliably take you out in that alpha strike, and if we can squeeze in a respectable sensor suite for its size, that becomes easier said than done.

    I love the design on this ship so far. I'd have prefered the Light Cruiser, but I am absolutely happy with how this is congealing.
     
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    landcollector said:
    I don't see this ship even with maxed agilty going from "Oh fuck AMBUSH!" to finishing an E-turn and powering up weapons in less time than it takes to raise shields. That is a pipedream right now imo.
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    The important thing is evading that initial ambush, and with this kind of mobility, that's very much in the cards.

    A Surprise Ambush is at its best against something that you'd have a hard time missing, that can't react quickly. The profile on this ship so far is such that the only angles of attack that aren't a complete pipe dream to accurately fire on are the dorsal and ventral angles, Fore and Aft? Good fucking luck given how thin these are.

    And it's not hard to pull an emergency burn and just flip out of the way in those cases either, which means any alpha strike has to accept most of the shots just fucking missing from the evasive maneuver. Which sharply limits their utility. When you couple it with the fact that one of these Space Darts didn't have to expend much of their internal and mass budget on the Cloak, and chances are if that first alpha strike fails, you're about to get thrashed to death unless you're going in a full sized wolfpack against a single example.

    And that's... Uh, if you're spending two or three frigates to counter a single one. That single one is still winning
     
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    [ ] Two Enhanced Type-2 Thrusters (Maneuverability: Very High) (Civilian Cost: 30 -> 35)

    5 cost is a lot on this scale, but its still a steal to go up a full Maneuverability category.
     
    If we've optimized this far for maneuverability, it would be pretty strange not to press our advantage. We're Starfleet, if we're building a gunboat we should ensure that we build the best one, with the best chance of bringing the crew back alive.
     
    Alectai said:
    you're about to get thrashed to death unless you're going in a full sized wolfpack against a single example.

    And that's... Uh, if you're spending two or three frigates to counter a single one. That single one is still winning
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    That's quite an....optimistic and premature tactical assessment imo. I have doubts. Maybe 2:1 if I am being generous to the likely end product, more realistic is 1:1 peer
     
    So silly idea, how about we put landing pads with docking collars on the back dorsal hull? Should be a cheap way to add a smidgen more flexibility to the hull.
     
    landcollector said:
    That's quite an....optimistic and premature tactical assessment imo. I have doubts. Maybe 2:1 if I am being generous to the likely end product, more realistic is 1:1 peer
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    I sincerely doubt the Klingons are so advanced that they can have a Cloak and still match one of these in a straight fight.

    Honestly, it's a bit weird that they are more advanced than us, even after we integrated the Vulcans and all that.
     
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