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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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I'd say that the girded action is a must since the King is heading out soon and we should really prioritize keeping him alive. I think two actions should be enough since the King's safety seems it's worth an extra action.
I'd be wine with overflowing on the Girded action too I guess. Especially since its just 1 meaning you could make it a 200%. Heck wouldnt mind going all in on that too. Hehe
 
Aenerion is currently already the chosen of asuryan guys.

Theres a period in between entering the flame and taking up Widowmaker, where he goes a bit edgy since his first wife died IIRC.

EDIT: Everyone I am WRONG on one part. he marries morathi after picking up the sword of Khaine. Anywho not much has changed from this, he's still in Nagarythe with Morathi, just with a super sword in hand.
 
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It doesn't really? The defenses we're working on right now, which I'm concerned with most prominently, are going to be finished before we finish Rune Metal Part 3. Thus spending time on Rune Metal Part 3 detracts from those defenses and delays them. I certainly want them done before turn 12 rolls around, and if we spend 3 actions on any research on this turn or turn 10 or 11 they will be delayed past turn 12.
Given that for the current defense option there is an option to spend favor on making it of gromil, than doing other requests with the 1 free action this turn and next and then getting the anti-spell part of the rune metal research done before finishing the defenses seems like a big step up. Or for that matter put 4 actions on turn 11 generate 6 actions from trait and have that overflow, that combined with the giant slab of Runed Gromril and Stone all of which is better equpped to stand off against chaos by finishing rune metal part 3. And the bigger danger versus chaos with that in place is spell casters wreaking the defense, something we can mitigate with Rune metal part 3. If anything, not doing part 3 of the research is weakening our defense.
 
I would say prioritize the hold and king so we have the buffer room to work purely on our research without having to worry that the hold will die without us, plus soon enough we will have 3 acceptable rune journeyman picking up our slack to enhance the equipment of the army in our stead
 
Man I wonder how much shit we've missed out on by essentially ignoring our masters mystery box option. I'm resigned to it never being taken before Chaos arrives at this point.
 
@soulcake Is the Girded in Metal only for the armor of the Huskarls, or does it also include Runing their weapons? Was wondering if it might be possible to use one of our surplus Griffon Brains for like, a weapon for the champion of their group.
 
Elves got hit first, huh.
Edited my original response.

I was wrong, the madman is currently holding the sword of Khaine. >_>

@soulcake Is the Girded in Metal only for the armor of the Huskarls, or does it also include Runing their weapons? Was wondering if it might be possible to use one of our surplus Griffon Brains for like, a weapon for the champion of their group.

Original request only asked for Armour.
 
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dammit, think instead of rune of metal we should work on the rune of animation, start working on producing large amounts of rune golems and guardians
 
Aenerion is currently already the chosen of asuryan guys.

Theres a period in between entering the flame and taking up Widowmaker, where he goes a bit edgy since his first wife died IIRC.

EDIT: Everyone I am WRONG on one part. he marries morathi after picking up the sword of Khaine. Anywho not much has changed from this, he's still in Nagarythe with Morathi, just with a super sword in hand.
...ok, so elves got hit first way before the Dwarves.


My plan includes the only action avialible that increases his physical protection, and builds up to us hopefully being better at everything important we do.
As do both of my plans, while aiming to unlock the action to make something with the Greedy One's Heart for the coming trials.
 
Perhaps, but then again we might get other traits due to our work on as of yet untouched research projects. Which they themselves might synergize with even more traits. The thing is we don't know if we will get an advanced trait from continuing with gromril. Its not really worth it to keep going with that action at the moment since we cant dedicate enough actions to it to make use of the bonus. Not when we have less costly research options that may provide more traits and avenues to explore. Such as the amber mentioned earlier.
Except that rune metal part 3 is involving a master rune and a way to neutralize magic in gromil. The perfect thing to use on the big slab of gromil and stone we want for defense part 3
devise a Rune or Runic array necessary to draw out the magical impurity from the Gromril itself
dedicated to removing or stopping magic cold in its unstable tracks
nothing short of a Master Rune will cut it

Those three bits, something that gives us anti magic Master Rune that works on gromil when the favor burning option is:
main gate into a giant slab of Runed Gromril and Stone

We do rune metal part 3 and then defense part 3 and good luck at using magic to break that gate.
I'd be fine with that too if no one wants to finish the or even work on the Greedy Heart research.
Rune Metal gives us anti-magic stuff on the current step, that is likely far wider in applicability than greedy heart research
 
I'd rather not do greedy heart research, in favor of exploring. The exploration may lead to research chains that the demons could destroy when they arrive. In contrast, the heart is both secure and something that could be banged out in one turn, even as the world burns.
 
mostly doing it in hopes of improving all our work with Gromril like part 2 did.
It won't finish in time to apply to Defenses Part 3, or Part 4 if there is one, or Girded in Metal or whatever replaces it. Thus, it won't help until the projects that come after the next projects to be unlocked.

Problem is that the King is heading out and don't think this is something we should delay. Especially with us getting called out just for putting off the rune machinery and we already delayed things with the king already.
Worth noting we haven't taken the Girded action yet, so we aren't "on the clock" per se. But doing it before he goes out is a decent point.

To be fair, because I agree on doing Girdle, no one called us out expect ourself.



I'd be fine with that too if no one wants to finish the or even work on the Greedy Heart research.
Something like this perhaps would be one I'm also okay with:

[] Plan Almost Out of Time, But Not Metal
-[] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 4 turns.
-[] Teach your apprentice. [Cost: 2 Apprentice Actions] Locked in for 6 turns.
-[] [Simple] Defence. In. Depth Pt3: [Cost: (4-1) =3 actions] Productivity Like No Other Will proc. 2 Actions.
--[] Petition the Hold, Gromril: Petition King Otrek and the Council of Elders to consider the merits of turning the main gate into a giant slab of Runed Gromril and Stone. The cost is massive, but the defence and the prestige are...incredible. [Cost: 15 Favour with the Hold and 10 Favour with King Otrek]
-[] [Simple] Girded in Metal:[Cost: 1 action] Productivity Like No Other Will proc. 2 Actions.
-[] Order: Invisible Diamonds.

Or we could do one action on Girded and three on Defense In Depth, depends on if you think there might be another step afterwards or not.

Given that for the current defense option there is an option to spend favor on making it of gromil, than doing other requests with the 1 free action this turn and next and then getting the anti-spell part of the rune metal research done before finishing the defenses seems like a big step up. Or for that matter put 4 actions on turn 11 generate 6 actions from trait and have that overflow, that combined with the giant slab of Runed Gromril and Stone all of which is better equpped to stand off against chaos by finishing rune metal part 3. And the bigger danger versus chaos with that in place is spell casters wreaking the defense, something we can mitigate with Rune metal part 3. If anything, not doing part 3 of the research is weakening our defense.
This turn, we do 3 and get 5 into Rune Metal and one into Defense in Depth. Next turn we do 3 and get another 5 and one into Girded in Metal and finish Rune Metal and get... something, we don't know what. We've paid for it by Defense In Depth pt 3 not being complete on turn 11, sitting at 2 actions remaining, and the Warmachine request not being complete. Or some other combination of those three. We would then have to do 2 actions on Defense in Depth, one on whatever replaced Girded in Metal (Possibly not completing it) and one on Warmachines. That'd finish Warmachines and Defense in Depth 3 before turn 12.

But if we focus on defense then we can finish Defense in Depth Part 3 now with overflow, along with Girded in Metal. Then work on whatever replaces Girded in Metal on turn 10, and the next part of the Defense in Depth chain if there is one, or the Warmachine and the next part of Defense In Depth. On Turn 11 there's whatever request replaces Warmachines or the thing that replaced Girded in Metal, or multiple other options. More layers and defense requests completed means we're safer when the sieges start, and can happily just while away more time with research than if we spend time on research now and gimp the number of defense requests we actually complete before turn 12.

Basically, I am valuing Defense as waaaaaaay more valuable than research right now. Particularly research that is pure knowledge, that we'd then have to research and build proper infrastructure to actually use. And in terms of the gates being left weak vs magic, they'd be made out of Gromril and Stone already magically resistant materials and Snorri isn't an idiot and knows daemons use magic. Runes of Spelleating, or Spellbreaking are par for the course.
 
Could we please take a chance on one of Yorri's odd locations?

It literally takes a single action and we haven't done a single damn one over the course of the past eight turns. I prefer to lurk and only vote when I need to but this has really started to annoy me. I'm going to become a single-issue voter at this rate and don't tell me we don't have the time for it now when we certainly won't have the time for it during the demonic invasion. We need to find time or it's never going to happen and Yorri will be a sad mentor when/if he finally comes back up north.
 
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Master Rune of Gromril with two Runes of Fortitude, for supernatural toughness, composition, and durability (in TT, 1+ AS (maximum possible in game) +1 T, and a 5+ Ward Save. Never gonna break it.)
 
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gate with rune of animation, spite, and reflection
try to make a invisible gate that can open and close itself and reflect damage back at attacker, paint the gate to not look like gromil and the enemy will literally kill themselves trying to destroy a indestructible gate?

invisible to try to hide the hold entrance, if found other two runes will pick up the slack i meant
 
Could we please take a chance on one of Yorri's odd locations?

It literally takes a single action and we haven't done a single damn one over the course of the past eight turns. I prefer to lurk and only vote when I need to but this has really started to annoy me. I'm going to become a single-issue voter at this rate and don't tell me we don't have the time for it now when we certainly won't have the time for it during the demonic invasion. We need to find time or it's never going to happen and Yorri will be a sad mentor when/if he finally comes back up north.
Here's an alternative for you if you want it.

[] Plan Almost Out of Time, But Not Metal or Places to Be
-[] Odd Places 1/10: Look on Master Yorri's map and try and discover one of his marked locations. The locations will certainly be odd, but whether they'll be useful will remain to be seen. [Cost: 1 action] Roll for usefulness. 1 Action.
-[] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 4 turns.
-[] Teach your apprentice. [Cost: 2 Apprentice Actions] Locked in for 6 turns.
-[] [Simple] Defence. In. Depth Pt3: [Cost: (4-1) =3 actions] Productivity Like No Other Will proc. 2 Actions.
--[] Petition the Hold, Gromril: Petition King Otrek and the Council of Elders to consider the merits of turning the main gate into a giant slab of Runed Gromril and Stone. The cost is massive, but the defence and the prestige are...incredible. [Cost: 15 Favour with the Hold and 10 Favour with King Otrek]
-[] [Simple] Girded in Metal:[Cost: 1 action] Productivity Like No Other Will proc. 1 Actions.
-[] Order: Invisible Diamonds.
 
Talismanic I think. Or at least, the Talismanic Master Rune of Spite was created to help guard stronghold gates anyway.
It its Talismanic instead of Armor then Rune of Adamant wouldnt even help unless we made a Talidman version first. Might as well do it now then because I doubt we would ever be able to make Adamant in the kind of quantities at once you would need to make a gate of it. And it would be much better used in other stuff too.

Heh, after a certain point you get into the problem of it being able to break through theountain to get to the hold.
 
It won't finish in time to apply to Defenses Part 3, or Part 4 if there is one, or Girded in Metal or whatever replaces it. Thus, it won't help until the projects that come after the next projects to be unlocked.


Worth noting we haven't taken the Girded action yet, so we aren't "on the clock" per se. But doing it before he goes out is a decent point.


Something like this perhaps would be one I'm also okay with:

[] Plan Almost Out of Time, But Not Metal
-[] Teach your apprentices. [Cost: 1 Action] Locked in for 4 turns.
-[] Teach your apprentice. [Cost: 2 Apprentice Actions] Locked in for 6 turns.
-[] [Simple] Defence. In. Depth Pt3: [Cost: (4-1) =3 actions] Productivity Like No Other Will proc. 2 Actions.
--[] Petition the Hold, Gromril: Petition King Otrek and the Council of Elders to consider the merits of turning the main gate into a giant slab of Runed Gromril and Stone. The cost is massive, but the defence and the prestige are...incredible. [Cost: 15 Favour with the Hold and 10 Favour with King Otrek]
-[] [Simple] Girded in Metal:[Cost: 1 action] Productivity Like No Other Will proc. 2 Actions.
-[] Order: Invisible Diamonds.

Or we could do one action on Girded and three on Defense In Depth, depends on if you think there might be another step afterwards or not.


This turn, we do 3 and get 5 into Rune Metal and one into Defense in Depth. Next turn we do 3 and get another 5 and one into Girded in Metal and finish Rune Metal and get... something, we don't know what. We've paid for it by Defense In Depth pt 3 not being complete on turn 11, sitting at 2 actions remaining, and the Warmachine request not being complete. Or some other combination of those three. We would then have to do 2 actions on Defense in Depth, one on whatever replaced Girded in Metal (Possibly not completing it) and one on Warmachines. That'd finish Warmachines and Defense in Depth 3 before turn 12.

But if we focus on defense then we can finish Defense in Depth Part 3 now with overflow, along with Girded in Metal. Then work on whatever replaces Girded in Metal on turn 10, and the next part of the Defense in Depth chain if there is one, or the Warmachine and the next part of Defense In Depth. On Turn 11 there's whatever request replaces Warmachines or the thing that replaced Girded in Metal, or multiple other options. More layers and defense requests completed means we're safer when the sieges start, and can happily just while away more time with research than if we spend time on research now and gimp the number of defense requests we actually complete before turn 12.

Basically, I am valuing Defense as waaaaaaay more valuable than research right now. Particularly research that is pure knowledge, that we'd then have to research and build proper infrastructure to actually use. And in terms of the gates being left weak vs magic, they'd be made out of Gromril and Stone already magically resistant materials and Snorri isn't an idiot and knows daemons use magic. Runes of Spelleating, or Spellbreaking are par for the course.
I was unaware that Defense in Depth part 3 and 4 would dissapear if not done right now, I was under the impression that between the King with a Legendary Weapon, his hammerers with Gromril armor, and the many dwarven fortifications we have already built that the hold won't explode in the next 2 turns and we can then do the Inner Hold Defenses properly.
 
Would overflowing on making a Gromril gate and overflowing on Runing Gromril Armor synchronize for our research?

I doubt it. Snorri already knows how to work the metal, his current line of inquiry deals more with metaphysics than regular-ass physics. Making a really big door or chiselling runes into suits of armour made by some other dude is unlikely to lead to insights about spiritual purification.

Going for overflow still seems like a smart move, though. Four actions into requests means getting six actions' worth of progress out of the turn, nothing to sniff at if the timetable is as strict as folks seem to believe. An action spent treasure hunting or faffing about with research effectively has an opportunity cost of two request actions. So to my mind you'd either want to go all in on fortification or allocate two actions each to fortification and armouring (for one-turn completion and 150 % overflow, respectively).
 
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