Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

Now, while having the agency (and maybe the ignorance) to make such a choice can be befitting of a game based on agency, I fear this also may have unfairly led players into the choice, as we didn't understand what the distinctions were, in or out of character.
Dark Shamanism is Shamanism
I'll admit I could perhaps have had another character pop up and note 'oh hey you should respect the elements' other than Angrais and that troll shaman at the start, but I think in general it's too complicated to have distinct traditions. That centaur remarked that your shamanism was 'dark' but that's simply a poetic way of describing it, there's no commonly accepted definition. You are indeed practicing a culturally distinct form of shamanism, which is different from the current Orcish Frostwolf orthodoxy, but I did insert specific elements in when you read though it. Yes I wasn't explicit but that's not how complex social stuff works. For example, the first meeting with Kardris has her immediately set herself up as opposing Thrall's views:
"I know the Warchief holds some disapproval regarding this 'Warsight', but you mustn't be discouraged." Kardris says,
Then she notes what she perceives as hypocrisy in the Frostwolf traditions
The Frostwolves claim to have some secret understanding of the Spirits but in truth they're just as savage as the Warsong and most of the shaman you'll see now wear the claws and pelts of wolves, meeting their enemies in battle.
Then when you note the specific orthodoxy Angrais and others have told you about she has the reply of her own philosophy
You frown again, not expecting this view, in fact being confused by it given your previous understanding. "Whenever I've spoken to other shaman they emphasise patience, wisdom, respect for the Elements, yet by your word you make them sound like beasts to combat."

"Are they not?" Kardris replies, "I respect wargs, when I ride them I know they could tear me apart, and I thank them for carrying me, but at the same time I know they must be tamed. We saddle them, muzzle them, take them into battle and peril, we use them for our purposes. The Elements abandoned us on Draenor just as an untamed warg will turn on its master, we must turn them to our purposes in the same way we do beasts."
I also had a section on the shamanism infopost about how there are culturally distinctive practices of shamanism, so between all of that even if the reader hadn't played wow before or was familiar with the lore they could comprehend that you're practicing a particular sort of shamanism that puts you in opposition to the elements. You literally kidnapped one.
 
this is why the frostwolf way of shamanism is generally better. Respectfully talk to your elementals to form a professional and reliable relationship rather than an antagonistic one for power.
 
, but I think in general it's too complicated to have distinct traditions.
I disagree. After all the main similarity between the two is that the end goals are (broadly) similar, but the methodologies are entirely too distinctive. In addition the end results can often be very different to one another because of the methodologies.

However yes I have already noted that had I been engaging in the quest I probably would have called it out, but I wasn't and unfortunately it did not seem to occur to most people that pokeballing sentient unwilling beings would have dire consequences.

Its the same reason I think Kardris's argument is disingenuous, even leaving out the fact that the reason the elements abandoned them was due to Kil'jaden (which I assume she doesn't know.) You can tame a wolf, you can't tame a person. Setting aside her views on the orthodoxy of shamanism, strip it all away and her philosophy is the kinda thing which would piss most people off. That said people are giant rock monsters just makes it easier to lodge said complaints with their enemies cerebelum.
 
However yes I have already noted that had I been engaging in the quest I probably would have called it out, but I wasn't and unfortunately it did not seem to occur to most people that pokeballing sentient unwilling beings would have dire consequences.
I actually had reservations about that, but I was pretty sure I'd be rebutted with "it's not bad, it's just different"
 
As someone who does a lot of quests I'm mad at how good the name is for this quest.

That is all.
 
The March of Forneus 5
The demon is swift and gone in a moment, the flap of the tent's entrance the only mark of its exit.

You don't have to wait long though, soon enough the flap stirs and your father steps in.

You have but a flash of glowing eyes before he's on you and you find yourself captured in his arms.

He stays kneeling beside your bed for a few moments and you lift your unbound arm to grasp your father, returning the embrace fiercely.

"I tried, father."

He says nothing, tightening the embrace and squeezing your uninjured shoulder, then pulling back and placing one hand on the back of your head. "You've made me proud."

You hear the words but your eyes are drawn to his, now glowing red rather than the small shine of power they had previously.

"Nothing that has occurred is your fault-"

"I was in command!" you insist, hand still on his robes as he cups your face.

A wry smile comes to his face, his lips contorting around his orcish tusks. "You were a captain in a war than began before you ever took up a sword. You led your warriors well, that is all anyone could have asked you. But first, tell me what happened…"

Your father doesn't seem to comprehend your words, doesn't seem to comprehend the dire responsibility you bear as whenever you touch on your actions in a negative light he deflects, telling you that you aren't to blame, that you did all you can but you know he's wrong.

You speak, your voice low, describing the weeks following your father's departure from Dreadmist on his own business, you speak of the battle and the horror, the Ur'zul, Proudpeak and Forneus, then the events after.

"Much can be guessed with hindsight, it is no great skill." Neeru says, "What matters is what you did, and what you did was the best you could have done. Say nothing of the elders, do you imagine you could have used them any differently or to any different effect?"

"I could have-"

But he cuts you off again, now sitting on the side of your bed, his hand still on your shoulder, "You won a great victory. The Kolkar sought to destroy our people, any action is permissible in such a battle, you did exactly as they did, there is no shame in that." he squeezes your shoulder again and you put your hand over his, "No shame."

You go on then, describing your battle with Jubei'thos and the fall of Akinos.

"The Centaur are a crude race, they couldn't have summoned the Elemental up on their own." Neeru says, "Jubei'thos must have been behind it."

"He seemed to be after me." you remark, thinking back to the confrontation, "Do you mean he rallied the Centaur against us all to get to me?"

"No." your father says immediately and as he shakes his head his eyes leave afterimages of redness in the dark tent. "If anything he sought the elders, what desire would he have with you?"

You doubted that, if so why had he attacked you afterward? Why not depart after he knew the elders were all dead?

"We will speak more of him in time, but for now go on, what came next? The other two reached the city a short time before your confrontation with the Elemental, why did you split up?"

You assume he's talking about Kartha and Scorn and relate how they had rescued you, then of your journey, how you'd needed to delay Forneus as long as possible before he reached the city, how you needed to confront him.

Your story ends with the words of the giant and you leant back and sigh, closing your eyes.

Neeru is silent for a time but then you feel him stir, "Do you remember what I told you about the qualities of leadership?"

Your eyes open again and you see him above you, the glow of his eyes slightly illuminating a hooded face, "Strength you said… Strength and wisdom."

He nods indulgently, "Good. Strength gives you the authority to lead, but wisdom maintains that authority. You have shown both. As I said, you won a great victory, you slew twenty times the numbers you had, you honoured your clan and your tradition."

You turn away, uncomfortable, "And what of the cost? What happened after I fell?"

Once again your father's hand is upon your shoulder and you take small comfort in its presence, "I won't conceal this from you, many are dead, hundreds in the city, more elsewhere, there are mountains burning from here to the Thousand Needles, but remember that you bear no responsibility for it. You did what you could, you did your duty, my son."

"Then who bears responsibility?" you turn back toward him, the words needling you, "I was in command and anyway if it wasn't me it's still our clan, I've dishonoured us, what does it matter if it was me or Jubei'thos or the elders? Either way the Burning Blade is to blame!"

"No." your father says again, "It's the Kolkar's fault ultimately, their warlike ways have stymied us since we came to these shores, if you blame anyone blame them, perhaps we escalated matters but these are our lands now, you aren't responsible for the actions of others, only your own, which were worthy indeed… Besides, even if the Burning Blade were responsible for all this we are also responsible for the city's salvation."

You frown, finally taking in your father's altered features fully. His eyes are glowing more they did, you already noticed this, but now you look at his hands, once formed of flesh and muscle, now covered in toughened scales. You simply hadn't noticed before, too eager for his embrace and benediction.

"How? What-" you pause, remembering the mighty fist of Forneus coming down on you again, "What happened after I fell? What happened to you?"

Your father holds up one hand, turning it slightly and you see the new scales that cover it. They are irregular, black-grey like sooty steel and underneath you see a glow of green. "As you know I was away in De-" he pauses, cutting himself off "…on my own business, but I felt the battle from afar, I don't doubt many with the sense for magic would have done so. I could taste the Fel on the wind and I bound demons to be my wings and came as swiftly as I could. I flew a day while you fought till I was over the mountains, then below me I saw fire and blast and the land was aflame. I flew on, first over the remains of Dreadmist and found nothing living there, but I knew you were still alive, you're my son after all…"

Pride wars with guilt in your chest and you look up at him, discomforted yet elated by his words.

"At the Crossroads they said you'd departed a few days before I got there so I flew on, hoping to find you. I went to Orgrimmar first but I hadn't considered your overdeveloped sense of…" he smiles at that and instead of it being the snide smirk you might expect you instead see amusement, amusement and love, "Your sense of responsibility. I spoke briefly with your subordinates and then came south, reaching you just after you fell from your post. I dispatched demons to carry you here and went north to the city."

"Did I manage to delay him? Did the Warchief have time to rally the defenders?"

He seems to hesitate, then proceeds, "You did, more than any could have hoped, but the shaman were is disarray after the emergence of such a powerful Elemental. It was left to us to drive the Duke away."

'Us'? The Burning Blade? "How?" you ask, "You don't have the power."

Your father smiles again, "I spoke to you once of the power of the Fel, the power… and the price." and he once against shows you his hand, so altered by corruption, the demon magic in his blood. "When I first came to the city I ordered our clan to rally, I felt the Elemental as strongly as anyone did but the Warchief made to create a ritual to calm Forneus. Such are the traditions of the Frostwolves, but I digress. We were the only force with the strength but more importantly the will to fight back. The Warchief stood atop the bluffs bearing his Doomhammer, remonstrating with the Elemental as it approached. It smashed the gates and the last thing I saw Thrall do was leap into one of the pools below as the Duke came on. Then I acted, I spoke a Word."

"A spell?"

"Older, more powerful, a thing of ancient corruption." your father replies. "I only heard a fragment of it when I was a child. I was too young to join the Shadow Council when Gul'dan gathered the warlocks of the Horde, I was but an acolyte. I didn't take part in the ritual but after we took the Fel I stood in Shadowmoon Valley against Cyrukh, the Fury of Draenor, he was a great mountain of fire come forth and Gul'dan spoke an incantation against him, draining his strength, funnelling his power into the Shadow Council. It was the Cipher of Damnation, eternal words that echo across the Twisting Nether. The warlocks searched for it for many years before that day, taking specks of knowledge from here and there, from the ruins of Highmaul or the Apexis. I heard but a single word of it then but it scorched itself into my mind and when Forneus approached I remembered it again. I spoke the Word, the warlocks of our clan put forth all our power and we drove Forneus back, even as he flailed and raged we threw him down and back into the earth."

He seemed tired by the tale and if you're honest so are you. Your father's arrival, his words, his love have all woken a pride in you that you'd almost forgotten but you still can't shake the guilt at what's happened. Many are dead as he said, could you have done differently? Would the Warchief have been able to prepare a more effective ritual if you'd gone to Orgrimmar instead? Would this have saved lives or ended them? Were your actions as consequential as he claimed or were these merely the lies of a father to his uncertain and fearful son?

"What now?"

He stirs again, "Now you rest, now you heal. The situation is less good than we might wish for, but the Shattered Hand stand with us, as do the Bleeding Hollow, and the Blackrock will join us I'm sure."

Your confused at that, "Why would they need to? What's going on?"

But then the tent's door flaps again, the demon returning, once again a shadow in the wind. Whispers come to you in an evil tongue and your father's face furrows in surprise and anger.

"Already?" he looks back to you, then to the demon before standing, turning to you for a last time before he leaves the dwelling, "Remain here, I will deal with this, whatever happens leave me to it, I will shield you."
 
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Well Forneus put the hurt on the orcs and now the BB might be planing something, the horde enemies are gonna have a easier time with all those dead orcs
 
Oh boy it looks like there's unrest brewing.
I like that you remembered the Cypher of Damnation, I loved that quest chain when I was doing loremaster of Outland.
 
Because of course everything we've done keeps making things worse.

I get the impression that Thrall's probably going to have to disavow us for what happened. And I don't exactly blame him, since despite everything Feldad's said, I'm pretty sure our clan, and us by extension, are the reason for why this shit happened.

My guess is that, politically, Feldad's got support from other clans to not exile us. But in the interests of not having the Burning Blade get a complete victory here, I'd say we personally accept whatever judgement Thrall hands out.
 
Well Forneus put the hurt on the orcs and now the BB might be planing something, the horde enemies are gonna have a easier time with all those dead orcs
It is odd though.

Shattered Hand stand with us, as do the Bleeding Hollow, and the Blackrock
Why these three?

Bleeding Hollow are supposed to be incredibly superstitious, and zealously follow their leader, but only remnants of the Bleeding Hollow are on Azeroth. The majority of the clan including their current chieftain (Jorin) are on Draenor and they took major damage, especially fighting their way back to Azeroth where they were subsequently captured. Indeed a large proportion of the clan didn't make it at all seeing as how many of the clan remained on Draenor (a majority seemingly which then split into two). Going from this at least they're likely one of the smallest clans, one with no relations to the burning blade that I can see. The only reason I can give is that they maybe joined because of their superstitious nature, but that seems like stereotyping.

Shattered Hand (on Azeroth) are the Orc's intelligence wing, although their exact loyality isn't 100% clear. At least one member has said he's seen Thrall's death, but it was pointed out that said clan member is also a lunatic. Said clain member BTW (a Troll named Zanzodan) does live in the cleft of Shadows, so there's a connection there, and I believe both clans operate out of it, but still...

And the black rock? Well they are certainly weird. Varrok and Etrig are seemingly die hard Thrall supporters, but their current chief (in Thrall's horde) is currently unknown. Malkrok is currently serving under Rend Blackhand and doesn't join until Garrosh comes along and until he does no clan leader is given. Theoretically they should be some of the more devoted to Thrall, they made up a very large proportion of those in the Camps and he's the designated successor of Doomhammer for obvious reasons. Again why are they with feldad? I guess the blade and them probably have a relationship cause of blacksmithing etc. but still its a tenuous connection. Well there is one other. Jub.*

*Speaking of I remembered now that it was Arthas and co that killed him so I'll that down as another notch in the "is a lich king thing" category.

In addition only one of these clans were really fely the Bleeding Hollow (see Kilrog Deadeye). The black rock were extremely so, but with the clan split and the guys in the horde presumably being more Doomhammer inclined so warlocks are likely not their favs...

mmm and

I get the impression that Thrall's probably going to have to disavow us for what happened. And I don't exactly blame him, since despite everything Feldad's said, I'm pretty sure our clan, and us by extension, are the reason for why this shit happened.
See that's the thing, I'm not sure this has anything to do with us directly. Affect us certainly, but well...

See there's a notable absence from that list, the Warsong. If this was about us personally then well we're blood brothers to one of their clan members, which is big deal stuff on top of all the crazy stuff we've done recently and the Warsong for all their many faults respect chupaz, they just also don't seem to care about the morality of it.

As such I've genuinly no idea what's going on here...

It could be as simple as him trying to do a take over for his masters in the burning legion, but I'd like to think its not that easy to over come Thrall.
 
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Also, was Feldad in Descolace doing something? Because that sounds like where he was before he cut himself off.

Now, this may be paranoia, but I'm wondering if the Kolkar are from around Descolace and whether or not Feldad sicced them on the elders to get rid of any political opponents...
 
...The...Drained Forneus?...
*shivers*
An Ancient word of corruption...
That sounds like Forneus got fed to the Old Gods...Which could be really bad. Possibly 'empowers Deathwing' bad. And with the Orcs having gotten their connection pre-sliced before DeathWing hits? If that screws up the shamans again Thrall might not have time/power to become the World Shaman like he did in canon and uhh...Well...
I should stop before I despair-spiral anymore then I already have in this theory. Just. YIKES!
Though the other thought might be FelDad getting ready to set up some serious Fel-Power pools for the Orcs in general. I can definitely see that tanking Alliance relations on account of the screeching of any and all Light wielders and the concerns of the Arcane, added onto the whole 'FEL IS DEMON POWER DEMON POWER IS BAD!' angle...
 
if Thrall's thinking of throwing out an entire clan,(ie ours), then I can see why other clans might be joining up. That has the potential to set up future precedents, for good or ill.
Yeah, but he knows that too. He's just taken a massive hit to the social cache, with the entire Forneaus debacle, I don't think he's so unsavvy politically to think that disbanding an entire clan is a good idea in response to it, never mind the clan that quite publically blasted Forneaus, especially with the historical resonances of "warlocks blast rampaging elemental while the Shamen are powerless to stop it."

That's why its weird, I can absolutely see him going after us but not the clan as a whole.

Also, was Feldad in Descolace doing something? Because that sounds like where he was before he cut himself off.

Now, this may be paranoia, but I'm wondering if the Kolkar are from around Descolace and whether or not Feldad sicced them on the elders to get rid of any political opponents...
Probably, but nah.

Big burning blade presence in Descolace. A "rogue" presence in the game.

Interestingly so is deadmist peak, so it could be a legit one. IIRC @FractiousDay has mentioned the Burning Blade has three legit camps one in Descolace.

An Ancient word of corruption...
I don't think that's an issue the old god's weren't on draenor. Retcons say that Cho'gath had encountered whisperings of them indreictly (but wasn't worshipping them) but Gul'dan's ritual is likely just...ya know.

A really powerful daemon ritual given to him by his big boss Kil'jaden.
 
but Gul'dan's ritual is likely just...ya know.

A really powerful daemon ritual given to him by his big boss Kil'jaden.
It's actually unclear where it exactly comes from. It apparently is on multiple worlds so it might be related to the Old Gods, but it's also related to the Burning Legion so it could also be a Fel thing too.

Oh and on the camps, the main ones are now Desolace and Orgrimmar, though there are minor outposts elsewhere.
 
Yeah, but he knows that too. He's just taken a massive hit to the social cache, with the entire Forneaus debacle, I don't think he's so unsavvy politically to think that disbanding an entire clan is a good idea in response to it, never mind the clan that quite publically blasted Forneaus, especially with the historical resonances of "warlocks blast rampaging elemental while the Shamen are powerless to stop it."

That's why its weird, I can absolutely see him going after us but not the clan as a whole.
The thing is, we've kind of put him in a bad spot. Not only have we ruined his city and killed a lot of people, but we've actually undermined his authority and the standing of shamanism in the horde in favor of the bad old ways, and with those clans forming up behind the Burning Blade, it's likely that he may have to do something drastic.
 
So to build on previous theory crafting, I also hope this isnt a revolution. I do hope that FelDad can turn whatever is left of the Duke into a battery to get some more juice in the Horde. Orcs deserve cool magics too.

With whatever the larger situation is regarding the Horde, Neeru is happy with us and is pretty cool with our honor bound nature. This is good. We can be a bridge to Thrall if need be, and FelDad will cackle at how our nativity helps his cause. But we will have the last laugh, because you cant out plot someone past the fourth wall.
 
"The Centaur are a crude race, they couldn't have summoned the Elemental up on their own." Neeru says, "Jubei'thos must have been behind it."
Also to remind people that Fel dad is certainly biased/missing a lot of info, at least on a meta-level we know this isn't true if for no other reason than the centaurs are beneficiaries of nepotism.

He might mean they'd have never had the balls to do it otherwise, but the Kolkar certainly never struck me as lacking in those.

It's actually unclear where it exactly comes from. It apparently is on multiple worlds so it might be related to the Old Gods, but it's also related to the Burning Legion so it could also be a Fel thing too.
I mean certainly by going law of simplicity the burning legion actively operates apparently across the entire universe, Gul'dan is numero uno warlocko in personal contact with/student of one of the two most important members of the burning legion aside from the big man himself and I don't believe is ever shown to have any connection to the old gods at any point (that was always Cho'gal's wheel house.)

While yes I suppose it is possible, I'd just consider it exceptionally weird if it were the case when every indicator I can spot says "fel ritual for fel warlock to do fel things for the fel burning legion of fel."

The thing is, we've kind of put him in a bad spot. Not only have we ruined his city and killed a lot of people, but we've actually undermined his authority and the standing of shamanism in the horde in favor of the bad old ways, and with those clans forming up behind the Burning Blade, it's likely that he may have to do something drastic.
I know we've absolutely put him in a bad spot, I can list the ways but this isn't a way to get out of a bad spot this is a good way to cause an active civil war at the worst possible moment.

The Burning Blade saved the city from when his plan wasn't working, they have the support of the people likely because of that, its a big blow, but its one he can recover from, but trying to destroy them sends all the wrong messages and precedent. It says that "you can save our people and the warchief will reward you with at best cultural or literal obliteration."

He can regain the people's trust in shamanism, they certainly need them to intervene with the damage to the landscape etc. but it'd be idiotic to try and eliminate the burning blade right now.

I have to believe Thrall is not that brain dead to go forwards with such a scheme unless he has steel clad evidence of something like Neeru being a pawn of the burning legion.

Something drastic is blaming us, which is politically scummy, but I'm not sure even that would work. While its certainly possible to put the blame on us again the public perception is very likely not with Thrall on this one regardless of Grok's personal thoughts on the matter. How ironic.

I do hope that FelDad can turn whatever is left of the Duke into a battery to get some more juice in the Horde.
I mean they kinda forced him back into the elemental plain of earth. Pretty sure he's just not there at the moment.
 
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I have to believe Thrall is not that brain dead to go forwards with such a scheme unless he has steel clad evidence of something like Neeru being a pawn of the burning legion.
Which, (in canon at least) he does.

Also, do you perhaps recall the work Nazgrel had you doing?

Your first orders said:
The Frostwolf looks distinctly sceptical but apparently decides to proceed anyway. "What's your father got you doing?"

"He's given me no specific duties, but then I've just arrived." you reply honestly, "I'd planned to hunt down some of the renegades of my clan before they bring greater dishonour to us."

Nazgrel nods, "There's a goblin by name of Fizzle Darkstorm in the canyons north of Razor Hill, a warlock from the old days… he may have some demonic token which might be of use to us in combatting the Legion.



Meanwhile in game
Thrall's quest said:
One thing I will not tolerate are traitors in our midst, <name>. But I would be a fool to play my hand so early--it would not sufficiently cut the corruption out of our lands and only cause the infection to grow worse.

But you, a young adventurer, could go places my agents could not... could learn the truth... could find the true head of the beast.

If you are brave enough, then enter Skull Rock to the east of Orgrimmar, find a lieutenant's insignia off one of the Burning Blade there, and return to me.

I wonder what Nazgrel, the officer responsible for matters of internal security, could have wanted with such a thing...
 
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...
The Blademasters.
Thrall turned them away, and relegated them to the pages of history...
But...
Grok was always fascinated by the Blademasters. I know thrall said no to them mostly to tamp down on the Horde's Warmongering ways, but I could see him enabling the Burning Blade to seriously start to maintain a certain crop of Blademasters, as an attempt to be sure that in the long run, the Fame of Fel newly forged into Orc society is a short-term fad instead of a longer and larger trend. To be sure that Shamanism isn't completely lost out given the current appearance of weakness.
Also, as a direct appeal to Grok in an attempt to counter FelDad's plotting. He can't touch the Warlock right now, but if he makes overtures to his son? That allows him to present a front of unity while getting a dig in on FelDad, in a sense.
Risky, but it's feasible kinda. Also, flipping the script on our deeds to 'look how this brave young orc gave of himself for the Horde!' might keep our own narrative of 'we're fools, we caused all this!' to go away, or at least give Thrall a chance to shock us into listening to what he has to say for a little bit. WHAT he says at that point, to convince us not to wander away...
...*shakes head*
Silly idea, because culturally Orcs I don't think really truck with the whole 'Shield Wall' notion, for reasons of personal glory/strength display, but I wonder at him trying to get us to adopt a shield, and possibly turning into a Shieldmaster...Nah, even if Grok was willing the boy is too aligned to Fire, and him messing with Earth caused a Cataclysm. I don't recall him being great with Water either, so his elemental connections are all wrong for it, even if the thought didn't hit the trauma button.
 
Which, (in canon at least) he does.
In fact he out right knows that Neru is working for the burning legion and has been sending people to their deaths in hellfire chasm. The reason he does is that the player freaking tells him.

Yet he does nothing about Neru, but I attribute that to Blizzard's poor memory/inability to resolve the advance the plot.

Also, do you perhaps recall the work Nazgrel had you doing?
I wonder what Nazgrel, the officer responsible for matters of internal security, could have wanted with such a thing...
I do, which is why I said he needs to have steel clad evidence, what I didn't say was that Thrall does not have it.

That said things are different to in-game. Dreadmist peak and the Burning blade's desolace camps are both hostile areas, here they seem to be legit horde bases and Neru himself is a much bigger deal than canon for example. Of course the reason they were open to us maybe because we're the chief's son, but at the same time Feldad was warning us away from the shadow cleft because the clan elders wanted to murder us.

Before factoring in that feldad had us going to kill Darkstorm etc. and didn't protest us handing over potential evidence.

Of course if Thrall does have that evidence then I think we're about to experience one of the few ways currently available to damage Grok's mental state even further so congratulations I suppose.

That said its a shitty recontextualisation that the reason the warsong aren't with Feldad is because Thrall is intentionally drawing a distinction between Neru the daemon worshiper and Grok the honourable blade master, presenting one as say the legitimate "true" leader of the burning blade and the other as a demon worshiping traitor.

Grok was always fascinated by the Blademasters. I know thrall said no to them mostly to tamp down on the Horde's Warmongering ways
I mean if our first meeting is any indicator he's certainly a fan of the image of them as a sort of honorable warrior monk order thing.

I don't recall him being great with Water either, so his elemental connections are all wrong for it, even if the thought didn't hit the trauma button.
Actually Grok's got above average elemental connections to every element sans air.

Fire's just our best one.

He's also got excellent capacity for arcane magic (80s) and has that weirdness going on with his life and decay affinities being equal in power.
 
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Not going to massively comment on these, but I'll note that some stuff I set up in advance, but doesn't necessarily use. I quoted what Darkstorm said in a suggestive manner, and I noted the similarities with the quotes then, these aren't WoGs necessarily.
I know, however with only guesses to go on its best to consider every possibility.

Few things.

Blue masks, fiery hands, a headless wolf and a shrieking hawk, meaningless symbols as your unconscious thoughts replay the events of the last few weeks.
On the one hand yes, these are things we saw in a dream, but connection currently blocked or not Grok is a seer, so might they have some meaning?

No idea, but I felt I should raise the possibility.

"No." your father says immediately and as he shakes his head his eyes leave afterimages of redness in the dark tent. "If anything he sought the elders, what desire would he have with you?"

You doubted that, if so why had he attacked you afterward? Why not depart after he knew the elders were all dead?
This also stood out to me, but why is he so quick here? As it says he immediately disagrees that we were the main target of the attack and as for what desire he has, well I can't speak for every murderous wraith, but if they (for some reason) blame the burning blade or have orders to destroy it wholly I somehow doubt that he's limiting himself just to people who fought in say the 1-3rd wars.

+ We're the son of the clan's chief, irregardless of our relations with him, killing us (if we assume his goal is to hunt the burning blade) is just common sense.

I can certainly agree that Grok was not the initial target, even that the elders were the primary one, after all first contact with Jub was spotting him climbing the mountain towards them, and riling up the centaur would certainly indicate that he was going for a significantly bigger group. But since the elders died (I think before Jub reached them) Grok's line of questioning makes a lot more sense, while throwing Feldad's into very odd territory.

So the question becomes, is he just trying to comfort Grok, hide something from Grok, or is he simply misunderstanding the situation or some combination of the three.

I imagine it may relate to who raised Jub, since there are three viable categories (that I know of anyway) which I've mentioned before.

1. The Scourge, who were responsible for killing him when Arthas wanted to reach that demon gate. Necromancy is kinda their thing, shadows are not too far off and the scourge is certainly a waste not want not kind of organisation. But the point then stands why is he not in his original body and why the burning blade? A possible answer could be that the bit of the Lich King that is Ner'zul holds some grudge, or it could be that Jub retains enough will power/has enough authority to act on his own, but even then why not create his own army of the dead to march on the blade if he was part of the legion? It answers the how, but unless Ner'zul holds a grudge that feldad knows of we've no real indicator beyond Jub's own grudge for why he'd be set on us.

2. The Burning Legion, not as known for necromancy, but certainly still capable of it. Hell I even recall them using it back during the war of the ancients. In this case though we can probably look to first-generation death knights, who were human corpses that Gul'dan imbued with the souls of the dead members of his shadow council. Jub (presumably) was some level of warlock and the burning legion may well have been willing to res him or there were surviving members of his faction of the black rock clan who could do it for him. It'd explain why he's is how he is in his specific configuration, and there is some potential to explain why he's after the Blade. He was noted as rather unstable, so he may see it as some kind of purification of the blade back to good ol "loyal" demon times. Given feldad's likely loyalties, its also most likely to explain why he's so quick in his answer

3. The Old Gods, as ever the dark horse option, I've no real way of proving or disproving it save lack of visible tentacles on Jub's part :p

Of course its possible feldad scried him, but I'm not sure how much info the duo gave, certainly no idea if it was enough for him to identify and scry him.

"Remain here, I will deal with this, whatever happens leave me to it, I will shield you."
Anyway one final point to relate back to the weirdness going on with the horde at the moment.

I think whatever is going on, it kinda cinches it that what is going on is a threat to us in some way, but not a threat to our life and limb in any traditional sense. If it were then I imagine he'd remain here, so this is defo a political question one I think he doesn't assume will turn into violence.

However, he's certainly unsure of what's going to happen "whatever happens" after all and I also think that he knows whatever will happen is going to blow back onto us in some manner or at the very least will be detrimental to him. Shield is very different to say the more general protect in implications and in practical terms, shields can be circumvented or even just can't block everything.

What I think is going on is that Grok is at the centre of a very complicated web of politics, little of which threatens his personal physical health, but certainly impacts his freedoms and mental stability.

There are a few possibilities.

Thrall having seen an echo of the cipher of damnation with all the Gul'dan resonances that implies has either gotten enough evidence or feels he can't allow Neeru to stabilise his position so is trying to have him arrested, certain clans are rallying to Neeru's side for assorted reasons. Whether or not Neeru knows Thrall has that evidence is another matter.

Alternatively, Neeru's trying to do something to defy Thrall for whatever reason, perhaps with hopes of preempting that evidence.

Whatever is the case, Neeru likely suspects he's in a much worse position than he appears. He's only got one clan properly backing him if his words are accurate and the loyalty of the other two he spoke of is dubious at best while the burning blade are not the most popular clan at the best of times. The recent victory has likely given an upswell of approval, but while he's talked about the chain of contingency, a lot of people are going to blame the burning blade regardless. And then there's the vulnerability of him being an agent of the burning legion (probably) with the battle for mount Hijall and the warsong's second corruption still relatively fresh in people's minds.

However, Thrall's probably got the same deductive reasoning as Neeru and hopefully blames the Kolkar, while in the past, publically at least, he's talked about the old traditions of the burning blade (ones that likely didn't ever exist, but that's neither here nor there). If nothing else he seems to approve of Grok personally, our aid to the trolls, trying to learn the elements over fel even in a way he likely disapproves of and trying to show dedication to the horde and clan simultaneously.

Given that there are changes to canon, I'll not discount the possibility feldad isn't a traitor, but assuming he is "shielding" Grok could take a few forms. Distancing himself from us, trying to get us out of the city via exile for example. Thrall meanwhile could well see us as a hope of salvaging the burning blade from fel corruption in some form. There maybe an ironic coincidence that neither especially wants to hurt us, but both certainly want to influence us to their own ends.

On Grok's end the big problem that I can see is that if Feldad is a traitor then there's not really a win scenario. If he's exposed then its a horrible betrayal for the honourbound Grok, right after he seems to have finally earned his father's approval heaped ontop of everything else, practically anything after that is just the icing on the trauma cake. It feels like the kinda topper that could just about shatter Grok for good given how fragile he currently is.

In other words, there's a lot of things right now, none of them are good for Grok. Some are good for the horde, but unless Neeru's recent display has convinced him to stop working for the demons, the road to recovery seems to have gotten immeasurably longer.
 
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