Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)
- Thread starter FractiousDay
- Start date
- Fantasy
Oh dear. I speculated he'd send assassins against Grok and I thought that was unlikely.
I am so wrong.
But...... while this is a clear cut case of treachery it wouldn't hurt to not exactly forgive and forget but keep the tally for being wronged so as to give Grok just cause to officially break ties with Thrall even after being willing to reconcile with him.
Xilentxium
Existential Crisis Management
- Location
- Temperate Regions
The funny part to me is that, what critically failed was Thrall's Orders, which could range from them being intercepted and doctored or not arriving at all to whoever was meant to receive them pulling some malicious compliance and not necessarily Thrall trying to pull a Doomhammer on our ass.
- Location
- United Kingdom
To clarify, this is one of those rolls where I ask the dice 'how bad was this thing'. In this case, what were thralls orders. Were they beneficial for you or problematic for you? In this case extremely problematic.
Then there was one for how Drek'Thar would respond, given he'd the guy implementing it, but as it turns out he's all for it.
There was for example a potential scenario where Drek'Thar doesn't trust Thrall's orders for some reason, or maybe Thrall likes you but Drek'thar as the local commander doesn't etc.
Then there was one for how Drek'Thar would respond, given he'd the guy implementing it, but as it turns out he's all for it.
There was for example a potential scenario where Drek'Thar doesn't trust Thrall's orders for some reason, or maybe Thrall likes you but Drek'thar as the local commander doesn't etc.
- Location
- PA
Heh.
I bet it's a recall order, and now Grok has to choose between directly defying Thrall and going full-tilt towards the Alliance, or going along with it, and burning bridges with Dathrohan; ensuring we need to make nice with the Warchief despite being one of his best political rivals.
I bet it's a recall order, and now Grok has to choose between directly defying Thrall and going full-tilt towards the Alliance, or going along with it, and burning bridges with Dathrohan; ensuring we need to make nice with the Warchief despite being one of his best political rivals.
Kir the Wizard
The Sun King
- Location
- Ukraine
Oh. So the bad roll was problematic for us? And Drek'Thar's roll is him going along for some reason?
A nat 1... As in, kill us all? How are you going to explain that narratively?
I guess there IS the issue of us being technically exiled from the Horde, while trying to walk into a Horde base. Under Alliance flags. Yeah.
Honestly, you would think with all the issues on Kalimdor, and the whole Forsaken debacle getting solved thanks to us, we'd be the last thing Thrall should worry about. But then I remember how he went out of his way in WoW to assassinate Rend Blackhand, and... Maybe he is paranoid about "rival warchiefs", even those on faraway continents.
Thrall's interactions with Grok
- Location
- United Kingdom
I mean fairly easily really. We've all been discussing 'oh what if Thrall is angry' for a while after all, turns out he is. Or, maybe people just think he is, I would emphasise that there's at least 3 dreadlords wandering about this region after all.
But, as a thinking exercise for myself while I'm planning out the next few chapters, let's map Thrall's actions toward Grok so far. Speculation or challenge welcome.
- Thrall is warchief, the Burning Blade are regarded with a degree of suspicion, but honour.
- Grok's father, the nominal chief of the BB is the Elder Warlock of the Horde, their most expereinced user of Fel magic. Thrall finds this beneficial, but generally dissproves of the Fel
- Grok is about, and is probably someone Thrall has at least heard of, but then eventually turns up with a couple of reports, which remark positively regarding his conduct. Thrall intercepts him and brings him in to present a bit of political theater, apparently having heard that Grok is wanting to be a Blademaster. Thrall sees Grok as a potentially promising subordinate, and admires his dutiful and honorable nature, but fundamentally also sees him as a pawn in his intrigues.
- Grok begins to integrate back into the BB, and does some miltiary stuff for Nazgrel. In taking down Darkstorm, Thrall begins to think maybe Grok is being used as a way for Feldad to 'wash' his reputation
- During this time, and previously, Thrall is gathering infomation across Kalimdor, and knows BB are hiding stuff. This includes, but is not limited to, deniable warlock assets, secret bases, dubious allies, and most pressingly a large force in Desolace, an area Thrall has little intel on. Thrall firmly believes that the BB are relatively well organised, and are unified, though perhaps not under Feldad. Therefore every report of a rouge warlock or evidence of someone doing some human sacrifices is suspicious to him.
- Nothing happens for a while, then suddenly Forneus strides over the horizon and Thrall has to defend Orgrimmar. He and the shaman fail, and its' Feldad who defeats Forneus with a powerful Fel spell that Gul'dan used once to torture the elementals of Draenor.
- In the aftermath what exactly happens slowly becomes clear from the reports of Vark and Kartha, but the problem is Feldad and the BB's fame has rapidly risen while Thrall's been in a coma or something. However, the upshot of it is that while Thrall doesn't necessarily blame Grok for the destruction of large parts of Ogrimmar, and the mini-Cataclysm that's happened, clearly to some extent the BB are responsible.
- Thrall tries to use Grok as a pawn again, to give him the ability to bring the BB down. He plays up the demon worship, etcetc, and things are going pretty well till Grok torpedos the whole thing by taking responsibility for it and defusing the situation. Thrall could have pushed here, but his legitimacy as Warchief is inherantly shaky due to tribal politics, and his advisers encourage him to let it lie for the moment.
- Grok is exiled, it's a bit of a mess allround, and Thrall busies himself with reconstruction and consolidation. Meanwhile, he knows Feldad is being sneaky in various ways, and that Feldad is enjoying previously unforseen popularity. Most devastatingly, Thrall observes that Feldad's influence has now cause the pendulum of 'fel good or fell bad' to swing dangernously toward 'good' again. Thrall's whole political philosophy is brought into question and public debate bubbles. If Shamanism is so cool, why couldn't Thrall his friends stop Forneus?
- Grok has largely passed out of Thrall's mind, but then stories arrive about BBs fighting in Lordaeron. Thrall is initially quite confused, but over time the stories becomes clearer. Grok has infiltrated the Crusade and gained the respect of various people there. Thrall personally has mixed feelings on this. On one hand, he wants peace with the Alliance, on the other, he himself was a human slave.
- Politically however, this is quite damaging. Thrall derives his legitimacy from the inherant defensive pact the Horde composes. He has essentially abandoned the Forsaken. No one necessarily blames him for his, but it does open him to accusations of weakness from his detractors. Feldad is included in these, but Feldad doesn't even need to say anything, he can just 'observe' that his son is there fighting against the Scourge.
- Grok's fig leaf of 'exile' is preserved because Thrall can't find any evidence of Orcs actually leaving to go join Grok. Grok is getting all his support from local tribes, the Crusade, and the penal batallions formed by Stormwind. This is also very awkward for Thrall because it makes it look like Grok isn't a BB pawn but is a legit exile. But surely that can't be?
- Grok wins several victories, increasing his fame. Though not a challenger at present, Thrall, who's busy rebuilding and fighting fires, finds it difficult to contest the developing narrative. At this point Feldad and others aren't necessariyl trying to take Thrall down, and Thrall knows this, but intrigues continue.
- Suddently 10k Forsaken turn up in Desolace, devastating the local centaur and fortifying the region. They openly associate with the BB fortress there. The Forsaken can only have gotten there by a demon portal, confirmed by Thrall's intelligence services and own shamanic senses, which infers a number of things. Firstly, Grok may have been sent to Lordaeron deliberately to bring the Forsaken over, which means he also may have been sent as a wider strategy, mastermided by Feldad. Every action Grok takes begins to look deliberate. While Thrall knows Grok isn't necessarily the cleverest guy (given Grok has previously been fairly naive), there's an open question as to Grok's agency in all of this. It might be that he's acting independantly, or it might be that he's opeying clan orders.
- Grok takes Anderhol, the newest height of his rapid miltiary career. This is the first time an Orc has led a significant military action since the short war against Kul Tiras. This builds on Grok's (reasonably) successful defence of Dreadmist. Rumours spread from unknown sources regarding Grok's skill and honour, and the fact that he's been acknoledged as a Blademaster. While once that was a quaint thing when Grok first turned up, with two victories under his belt this becomes more credible.
- Thrall hasn't heard from Hammerfall in a while, but then one day he gets a message (I dont know by spirit phone or something) from there or from Drekthar saying that Grok turned up, is working for the humans, and recruited some of their dudes. This is dangerous for a number of reasons because it looks like Grok is trying to build up his forces, and threatens the security of 'loyal' bases, and from the report it seems that Grok is working on his own, rather than just being a pawn. Worse, Grok has continued his dubious relations with Elemetnals, and has bound a powerful one. Grok fights the Alliances enemies, implying that he's willing to probably fight orcs too in order to increase his power.
- Grok takes Naxx, fighting various fearsome enemies. Grok has been associating with famous human warriors like the original members of the Silver Hand (who I've noted in this quest are well known and respected among the Orcs), and he's now beaten Mograine in single combat. Thrall (as far as I can tell) doesn't have any notable martial feats. He is, after all, a shaman. He had a reasonable gladiatorial career, but Grok's significant skill in combat eclipses his quite comfortably. These are all hits to Thrall's authority again.
- Grok makes for Alterac, the known location of demon-worshiping Orcs and a (preusmably) functional demon gate.
- Grok leads his army into Alterac Valley, bearing down on the Frostwolves.
What happens next I've yet to actually write. This will involve some rolls, but what I want to demonstrate here is that there is at least a significant amount of room here for misconceptions, intrigues, implications, and finally rash action. I rolled for what orders Drek'thar had received from Thrall, this would represent to a degree what Thrall has told Drek'thar to do, and also Thrall's opinions on Grok's actions more generally. This quest doesn't have alternate viewpoints so I don't intend to tell you actually what's going on, though there are indeed things in the background. For example, as mentioned above, there are Dreadlords known to be in the area, who would definitely benefit from the destruction of the Frostwolves and further isolation of Grok. I'm not saying that's actually what's happened, but one of the narrative strengths of this quest is Grok's limited internal perspective.
Also, from an external perspective I suppose, with me as the author, I rolled a 1 on an important roll. This wasn't failing a miltiary action or something, this was for Thrall's position, a powerful figure who can to a greater or lesser extent dictate your future. You rolled the worst possible roll you could, a roll that's traditionally reserved for truely calamitous events. I must respect that and arbitrate how that'll work.
Also, as I know they'll be coming, and to defuse any objections that a single roll will dictate the future of the quest, or somehow lock you into a particular outcome, no it wont. Come on we're 200k in, you're aware that's not my style.
- Location
- barking
well when you put like that do your damn job thrall and we wouldn't have to do it for you/j
- Location
- United States of America
What do you call an orc in charge of multiple clans?
Damn Grok is a even bigger mess for Thrall than I thought or noticed, what's even more impressive is that it isn't even intentional.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
TLDR the dice fuck us again.
Why is it quests never roll nat 100s...
Edit:
Few more things, the dice seem determined to give Thrall the asshole ball at every opportunity, and I maybe being presumptive here, but I fucking knew the dark shamanism was going to come back and bite us in the ass again.
Fuckin knew it.
Why is it quests never roll nat 100s...
I mean a lot of it is taking the worst possible explanations for things so that ain't helping.
Edit:
Few more things, the dice seem determined to give Thrall the asshole ball at every opportunity, and I maybe being presumptive here, but I fucking knew the dark shamanism was going to come back and bite us in the ass again.
Fuckin knew it.
Last edited:
Grok is heir to the openly Fel practicing Burning Blade Clan, with Thrall rightfully blaming the fel for a bunch of the shit the Orcs as a people are having to deal with now.
He was custom built to trigger Thrall's paranoia. It could be worse though. The voter base could have voted to mainline fel as a warlock and knowingly work for the Shadow council. Then Thrall would have righteousness on his side. As it is, Grok is a messy tangle of grey with a half dozen conflicting loyalties.
- Location
- barking
aka the bunch of morons who thought backstabbing demons was a good idea or that working for old gods was a good idea (looking at you cho'gal)
Never said it was a good or sane idea, but it was certainly one we could have pursued.
That roll was always going to happen regardless of our choices in Alterac right? Someone in the horde gets the order in the nearest horde base and so the order to enforce the exile ensues.
That's how loyal subordinates become open rebels.
Last edited:
I mean, it partially is. When we came back to Orgrimmar we purpousfully reconnected with our clan and tried to integrate ourselves more deeply as its prospective heir rather than trying to work for the Horde as large, in particular we went to Dreadmist to gain approval and help elders we knew were working in direct defiance of Thrall's law. Then when Thrall made a decision about the consequences of the BB continously breaking those laws, we purpousfully inserted ourselves in the middle to kill his opportunity to punish the BB. We also chose to go to settlement loyal to the Horde (and thus to Thrall) to recruit soldiers from their rank, in effect weakening the Horde's position in the EK.
Sure Grok didn't do them to try and dethrone Thrall, but he knew that quite a few of his choices would weaken Thrall's position and still did them (one time even specifically with the intent to weaken Thrall's position).
People wanted more horde members in the band. It can't be helped. I'd rather go to quelthalas.
Oh I hadn't thought of that. I thought it would be a military order (like to attack our troups or to attack the stormpikes which would force us in a weird spot, or something), but I guess it could also be more of a political order to enforce the exile by forcing all our Horde soldiers to pick between shunning us or getting exiled themselves.
I didn't think that far I thought it was to tell Grok that he's not supposed to be there so he should buzz off.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Garrosh.
I don't disagree, but Garrosh as a person existed with Thrall cannonically having years of knowing about him being a fucking lunatic and he made him warchief. This is not a man who sees the worst in people a lot of the time.
You mean his son? If the gate to outland hasn't been opened yet he's still a withdrawn softie.
He could show Thrall his ability to call upon the light. That would totally move the paranoia into a whole different direction.
One who uses the Light cannot use the Fel right?
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
I mean there's not really any specific restriction.
+ an inability to use the fel doesn't mean you're not working with it. Blackhand didn't use the fel, but he was the prime agent of Gul'dan after all.
To be clear none of this is entirely unreasonable for Thrall, its just frustrating to have the arc derailed.
Xilentxium
Existential Crisis Management
- Location
- Temperate Regions
Like I said before, Thrall is in a toxic relationship with reality. He will make the best version of someone in his head and think that's how they really are sometimes even projecting his own traits on them because he just can't see himself as being worthy, just like with Doomhammer and Grommash.
Especially Hellscream, the dude repeatedly picked fights that he didn't have to fight and in defiance of direct orders from his little brother and warchief, because heehee oopsie, who else but Grom? But Thrall turns him into a savage hero who only does what he does to protect the Horde