Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

Like I said before, Thrall is in a toxic relationship with reality. He will make the best version of someone in his head and think that's how they really are sometimes even projecting his own traits on them because he just can't see himself as being worthy, just like with Doomhammer and Grommash.

Especially Hellscream, the dude repeatedly picked fights that he didn't have to fight and in defiance of direct orders from his little brother and warchief, because heehee oopsie, who else but Grom? But Thrall turns him into a savage hero who only does what he does to protect the Horde
Also genocidal nut job, both on the Drenai and the humans. In fact the former is something I think Thrall never addresses. Anyway I think part of the reason for Thrall's attitude towards Grom is because he did give off that impression...when they first met. At least if I recall the origin book correctly.
 
Especially Hellscream, the dude repeatedly picked fights that he didn't have to fight and in defiance of direct orders from his little brother and warchief, because heehee oopsie, who else but Grom? But Thrall turns him into a savage hero who only does what he does to protect the Horde
didn't grom even say he freed himself I doubt he even thought about the rest of the orkish race. Also not many orks seem to think much of oh yeah we killed the drenei based of a lie
 
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  • Politically however, this is quite damaging. Thrall derives his legitimacy from the inherant defensive pact the Horde composes. He has essentially abandoned the Forsaken. No one necessarily blames him for his, but it does open him to accusations of weakness from his detractors. Feldad is included in these, but Feldad doesn't even need to say anything, he can just 'observe' that his son is there fighting against the Scourge.
I was going to say, that Thrall could observe back that no report says Grok is helping the forsaken either. In fact he's aiding their enemies. The point is rendered moot by the subsequent Forsaken Exodus, but if not helping the forsaken could open him up to accusations of weakness, arguably he could use Grok's actions as proof of something. The exile makes it complicated IMO.

That said

  • Suddently 10k Forsaken turn up in Desolace, devastating the local centaur and fortifying the region. They openly associate with the BB fortress there. The Forsaken can only have gotten there by a demon portal, confirmed by Thrall's intelligence services and own shamanic senses, which infers a number of things. Firstly, Grok may have been sent to Lordaeron deliberately to bring the Forsaken over, which means he also may have been sent as a wider strategy, mastermided by Feldad. Every action Grok takes begins to look deliberate. While Thrall knows Grok isn't necessarily the cleverest guy (given Grok has previously been fairly naive), there's an open question as to Grok's agency in all of this. It might be that he's acting independantly, or it might be that he's opeying clan orders.
Thrall does know about the BB who initially went with him right?

Possibly more important given the significance of Andorhal? While it wasn't a flash point for the first and second wars, it is one of the oldest human settlements and centre for the church of the light. Not sure how much the orcs would care bout that.

and has bound a powerful one
Also likely repeating the sins of the past if you will from Thrall's perspective. Since I remember what happened the last time Grok did that.

Thrall (as far as I can tell) doesn't have any notable martial feats. He is, after all, a shaman. He had a reasonable gladiatorial career, but Grok's significant skill in combat eclipses his quite comfortably. These are all hits to Thrall's authority again.
Yeah Thrall kinda gets shafted by the lore in terms of this sort of thing. Like he has very few major victories period. Often cause when he's allowed to use Shamen powers he's up against the sort of enemy where its unlikely he'd be able to turn the tide on his own. But the only thing I can really tell for his combat skill is he's not as good as Garrosh in a straight fight, cause he doesn't even have many of those to begin with :p

  • Grok makes for Alterac, the known location of demon-worshiping Orcs and a (preusmably) functional demon gate.
mmm...I'd have assumed Drek'Thar would have sniffed out any remaining ones after Arthus kinda decimated the local ass hats. I'd mention Jub, but its been at least a year? Can't really blame Thrall for not making the connection.

Also, as I know they'll be coming, and to defuse any objections that a single roll will dictate the future of the quest, or somehow lock you into a particular outcome, no it wont. Come on we're 200k in, you're aware that's not my style.
We'll see, but this does feel like a situation where we need more write in control again.
 
That's how loyal subordinates become open rebels.
Well.. have we actually been a loyal subordinate to Thrall.. like, defacto or de jure? Like has he given us specific orders and such, and us following them in the letter and spirit of said orders?

It's been a loong quest.
 
Well.. have we actually been a loyal subordinate to Thrall.. like, defacto or de jure? Like has he given us specific orders and such, and us following them in the letter and spirit of said orders?

It's been a loong quest.
I think so. The closest thing to not following his orders would arguably be the centaur, but even then we succeeded arguably better than intended.

We've certainly never done anything to specifically oppose him outside of Grok taking on the blame personally, he just thinks we're sus as fuck, and from the outside its not an unreasonable suspicsion.
 
Well.. have we actually been a loyal subordinate to Thrall.. like, defacto or de jure? Like has he given us specific orders and such, and us following them in the letter and spirit of said orders?

It's been a loong quest.
Tried is the best way to say it and then after Dreadmist it went out of control because of a renegade undead blademaster that made it untenable.
 
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Also genocidal nut job, both on the Drenai and the humans. In fact the former is something I think Thrall never addresses. Anyway I think part of the reason for Thrall's attitude towards Grom is because he did give off that impression...when they first met. At least if I recall the origin book correctly.
And being fair to Grommash, Thrall was a recently escaped gladiator-slave who was seeing what freedom was like for the first time and seeing his people strike back at their oppressors.

But yeah, at least Saurfang acknowledges that they've done bad things, and they weren't just victims of deception. I think Thrall even gave a damn speech about how portraying themselves as victims dishonors them as a whole.
 
Thrall (as far as I can tell) doesn't have any notable martial feats. He is, after all, a shaman. He had a reasonable gladiatorial career, but Grok's significant skill in combat eclipses his quite comfortably. These are all hits to Thrall's authority again.
I'd say no notable personal combat feats (he wounded Archimonde, fought Mannaroth but would have lost if not for Grom's suicide rush, handled Grom himself, but who knows if it was 1v1, or just used a trick to trap his soul immediately like you can do in the game, and killed Blackmoore, who was not at his best.
Martial, as in, leading armies as a warlord? I'd say his record is pretty great. Leading the Rebel Horde doing whatever it wants in Southern Lordaeron, doing a daring raid even as up north as Stratholme (may have been Old Stratholme that was supposed to be on Darrowmere Lake, but who knows), personally rebuilding fleets and armies and recruiting new peoples for the Horde cause, fighting seven Alliance castles at the same time because of Grom's craziness, taking the Stonetalon Peaks from the Alliance, taking Theramore.
Although for some reason personal fighting skill does matter more to the orcs than guile (discounting the original Backstabbing, that has been retconned), if we consider that Garrosh was becoming more popular than Thrall. But to me that was just another disappointing point of WoW lore so eh.

Anyway, kind of funny Thrall may see Grok as this sort of Machiavellian plotter, while Grok'mash is the straightest arrow in the bunch.

That's how loyal subordinates become open rebels.
Honestly, we have little to rebel against, aside from deciding to destroy Horde assets left in Lordaeron entirely. I do want to see a one on one discussion between Grok and Thrall.

Like I said before, Thrall is in a toxic relationship with reality. He will make the best version of someone in his head and think that's how they really are sometimes even projecting his own traits on them because he just can't see himself as being worthy, just like with Doomhammer and Grommash.
It's always been a wonder to me how Thrall would put Doomhammer on a pedestal, while being a much better warchief than him (like, I'd put both Blackhands above Doomy, sue me).
I blame Darth Revan Syndrome (in its negative definition).

Especially Hellscream, the dude repeatedly picked fights that he didn't have to fight and in defiance of direct orders from his little brother and warchief, because heehee oopsie, who else but Grom? But Thrall turns him into a savage hero who only does what he does to protect the Horde
In-character, I explained it for myself as stemming not just from Thrall's admiration of Grom (and Garrosh reminding him of Grom), but also from him assuming Mag'har superiority from default, and his own complex about being a tainted (green) orc DESPITE being the most anti-Fel orc from the most anti-Fel clan. In Garrosh, who came from the rather peaceful Mag'har, he saw an untainted future for the Horde.
Ironically, Garrosh, for the most part, hated everything about the Mag'har, and jumped on the Horde bandwagon (with all of the worst Hordish qualities to choose) as soon as he heard from Thrall that his asshole dad was actually the hero all along. I'm not usually into blaming Thrall for Garrosh's faults (the man is OLDER than Thrall, honestly, he was not some young and impressionable apprentice!), but there is certain link between Thrall trying to make Garrosh feel better about his parentage and the latter coming to the worst possible conclusions.
 
Long response so bear with me

I mean a lot of it is taking the worst possible explanations for things so that ain't helping.

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Few more things, the dice seem determined to give Thrall the asshole ball at every opportunity, and I maybe being presumptive here, but I fucking knew the dark shamanism was going to come back and bite us in the ass again.

Fuckin knew it.
The roll sort of necessitates taking the worst explanation

as for the dark shamanism thing, take the counterfactual of a non-dark shaman, Thrall is still concerned about the Fel, about his position, etc etc. Grok is far more dangerous for his capacity as an upstart political threat rather than as the user of a non-standard spiritual tradition
That roll was always going to happen regardless of our choices in Alterac right? Someone in the horde gets the order in the nearest horde base and so the order to enforce the exile ensues.
It didn't happen at Hammerfell because no one there had the ability to tell Thrall about it. Tehrefore no rolls were made, however Drekthar is certainly powerful enough to contact thrall. Therefore this was when I did the roll, but presumbaly it would have happened at some point, if not this arc, the next one.

Sure Grok didn't do them to try and dethrone Thrall, but he knew that quite a few of his choices would weaken Thrall's position and still did them (one time even specifically with the intent to weaken Thrall's position).
Yea a lot of it is fairly unintentional from Grok, but the actions themselves were indeed deliberate, meaning that even if his intention wasn't to do this sort of thing, he knows how thrall might perceive it. This has been foreshadowed somewhat by Vark's remarks.



To be clear none of this is entirely unreasonable for Thrall, its just frustrating to have the arc derailed.
The consequences of this won't really be felt yet, I can say that. This a speed bump at the moment, but later in future arcs is when thiswould come up more.
Garrosh.

I don't disagree, but Garrosh as a person existed with Thrall cannonically having years of knowing about him being a fucking lunatic and he made him warchief. This is not a man who sees the worst in people a lot of the time.
But Thrall turns him into a savage hero who only does what he does to protect the Horde
Garrosh perhaps, but there's a few explanations really. For example, Thrall is hoping that Saurfang will season him, or is relying on others because he's busy with.... something?

Then in Cata Thrall is again super busy, he can't do anything about Garrosh.

But in general, I'd also say this is frankly the fault of the existing Horde instituions. Thrall has resigned, Garrosh perhaps isn't a great leader in terms of continuity, but at least he does hold the confidence of a large number of the Horde, especially the Orcish conservative faction.

SO I don't blame Thrall specifically tooooo much for it. But yea he holds some of the blame.
didn't grom even say he freed himself I doubt he even thought about the rest of the orkish race. Also not many orks seem to think much of oh yeah we killed the drenei based of a lie
I'm not actually sure how many people are aware of it tbh. They seemed to need remarkably little pushing to go full genocide, so I suspect that they'd have wanted to do that anyway previously, just hadn't had the capacity to do so.
Thrall does know about the BB who initially went with him right?
Depends. Feldad concealed Grok for like a week, then sent him out at night through a secret tunnel. Thrall would have onyl gotten a report after the fact that Grok was gone, adn that maybe some others were too, but Feldad can just say 'oh yea they just decided to follow him it wasn't me at all etc'.

That's one of the 'fig leaf' bits really. sending a small company with Grok was a permissable testing of the exile rule etc
Andorhal? While it wasn't a flash point for the first and second wars, it is one of the oldest human settlements and centre for the church of the light. Not sure how much the orcs would care bout that.
More significant for the strategic value really, the supply lines from Southshore are really important
But the only thing I can really tell for his combat skill is he's not as good as Garrosh in a straight fight, cause he doesn't even have many of those to begin with
This is remarked upon in the rpg books actually, some orcs don't like that THralldoesn't fight much.
mmm...I'd have assumed Drek'Thar would have sniffed out any remaining ones after Arthus kinda decimated the local ass hats. I'd mention Jub, but its been at least a year? Can't really blame Thrall for not making the connection.
He didn't really have the force before. Thrall takes everyone away, or a lot of teh Frostwolves anyway (because theyre yknow his clan etc), and then presumably sent some back. But presumably he was then busy with the Stormpike. So yea perhaps he just hasn't gotten round to it. That's not really his job anyway, he's not the commander of a military position he's just a clan chief at this time
We'll see, but this does feel like a situation where we need more write in control again.
I'm open to this. You probably dont get one right now, but I wouldn't mind if you wanted to write in what to do about the survivors of the battle etc. Did you have something in mind? Like what sort of control would you want to have?
Well.. have we actually been a loyal subordinate to Thrall.. like, defacto or de jure? Like has he given us specific orders and such, and us following them in the letter and spirit of said orders?

It's been a loong quest.
It has indeed been a while, but that's why I do the info posts. I would say in general that you've not necessarily disobeyed him, and you have obeyed your clan too. The problem is that in that obedience you've also caused problems potentially.
And being fair to Grommash, Thrall was a recently escaped gladiator-slave who was seeing what freedom was like for the first time and seeing his people strike back at their oppressors.
While I'm very critical of Thrall both in and otu of character, and critical of his lore and writing, I also don't think you can blame him for a lot of this stuff really. You can sort of see what he's trying to do, it just doesn't work.
the man is OLDER than Thrall, honestly, he was not some young and impressionable apprentice
Yea this is one that surprised me when I remembered it. Good points on the Maghar and Thrall assuming they're great. IS the whole 'blame guldan for everything bad in the past' problem.
 
I'm not actually sure how many people are aware of it tbh. They seemed to need remarkably little pushing to go full genocide, so I suspect that they'd have wanted to do that anyway previously, just hadn't had the capacity to do so
I mean blackhand didn't believe nurzhel at first till others "comfirmed" (others kiljaden lied to) his words but I guess most of the lower rank orks might not know the truth since most orks prob blame guldan for a lot of things and over look nurzhel abit

the man is OLDER than Thrall,
I compeltly forgot garrosh was older then thrall. (do wonder why grom didn't age up garrosh like blackhand did with his two sons) Also garrosh did buddy up with the worse elements of the horde (former members of the dark hoarde and dragonmaw clan that didn't stop trying to enslave dragons)
 
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So, now comes the question of what will we do after. As it is, Grok will feel greatly betrayed, maybe wishing revenge, maybe wanting to notify his father. However, I think he should not. While Neeru's agents may send him this information regardless of Grok's intentions, him personally telling his father of such treachery from the Warchief could spark a true civil war inside the Horde. This could be a very potent casus belli for Feldad. As much as we love him, we don't really want him and his dreadlord-counseling cronies in control of the Horde either.
In fact, save everyone's faces and play it up as "our own honest mistake forgetting about our exile from the Horde, after being in grand spirits of inter-factional teamwork against the Scourge". We don't strictly need the Horde, and can find work and lodging in the lands of the Alliance now, but we do not want it weak, or under demon control either.

Yes, Neeru may not be actually wanting to serve the Legion, but we've already seen him having a "meh, I'm old and experienced, I know best" attitude about intrigue, magic, and even diplomacy (to the point he took offense and went all old man grumbling on us when Grok tried to ask for advice from different teachers). He may be wanting to trick and backstab the demons, but the thing about the Burning Legion is they usually backstab you first (hello, Gul'dan, Ner'zhul, Illidan, Kael'thas, pre-retcon Medivh, Wilfred Fizzlebang...)

While I'm very critical of Thrall both in and otu of character, and critical of his lore and writing, I also don't think you can blame him for a lot of this stuff really. You can sort of see what he's trying to do, it just doesn't work.
Is it more about how he was written, or how he was --not-- written? Because a lot of changes from WC2-to3-toWoW were left for the player's interpretation regarding what was happening with the Horde, and what Thrall did (or did not do).

Like, in this quest we've focused a lot on clans, clan affiliation, former and current clan proclivities, jobs etc. A lot of that was supplemented by the RPG (from what I understand), which established the clans as a still relevant institute, very important to the orcs, and the Warchief still dependent on the old tribal structure and tribal traditions.
However... Almost none of that is present in the games post Warcraft 2. Thrall never emphasizes his own Frostwolf Clan, or the largest Blackrock Clan as Blackhand and Doomhammer did (aside from maybe making the Blackrock political symbols universal for all orcs), he only ever speaks of the Horde. The only clan that the players can see having any authority outside of the Warsong Clan - in WC3 one can assume that is because they are the only ones with a visible living chieftain, while the other clans (thanks to the cancelling of the original version of Lord of the Clans) were left leaderless and integrated into the Horde. In WoW we see mentions of the clans, but they are not talked as proper tribes, but rather cults, agencies, or military institution (aside from maaaybe the retreated Frostwolf).

I never had access to Warcraft RPG books, so from what I saw in-game, my assumption was that Thrall actually spent his time on centralizing the Horde and using the post-internment state to mostly remove clan identity entirely, to the point where only orcish communities living far from the Nation of Durothar retained it, and even then not all of them (Grom'gol, Stonard, Hammerfall...)
The ONE big check on Thrall's power that was introduced in WoW (and then promptly forgotten about in that regard) was, surprisingly, the sages council of shamans of the Earthen Ring, who demanded the adoption of the Forsaken into the Horde despite Thrall and Cairne's protests
 
Honestly, we have little to rebel against, aside from deciding to destroy Horde assets left in Lordaeron entirely. I do want to see a one on one discussion between Grok and Thrall.
That depends entirely on the response Thrall gave that's followed by Drek Thar. I don't see Grok ever languishing in exile like a hermit he's going to be living life to the fullest as a young and upcoming blademaster would be doing.
 
In fact, save everyone's faces and play it up as "our own honest mistake forgetting about our exile from the Horde, after being in grand spirits of inter-factional teamwork against the Scourge".
While I'm certainly going to allow discussion of your response in general, I don't think I'd allow something so, frankly, pathetic. Yes Grok is big on cooperation, but he's just been attacked perfidiously by an agent of Thrall, if anything, his honour demands some sort of response. He's also got his soldeirs to look out for, he's acting as their chief, even if he's not formally accepted that title. Grok wouldn't be able to accept such a breach in the feudal contract he has with his warriors, it would be unthinkable.

This doesn't mean you'd have to go super against Thrall, but this isn't something that can be brushed off.

To put this in perspective, this isn't quite as bad as the murder of Thrall's parents by Gul'dan's assassins, but it's getting close to it.
Is it more about how he was written, or how he was --not-- written? Because a lot of changes from WC2-to3-toWoW were left for the player's interpretation regarding what was happening with the Horde, and what Thrall did (or did not do).
Yea, this is pretty fair. I'm trying to make this sort of thing cohesive. There are a aseries of actions which are canon, and people would be confused if I just said things didn't happen. For example, Thrall is characterised as a very passive guy. He's not necessarily pacifistic, but he does have, for whatever reason, a very passive leadership style. One of my tasks as GM is to make the quest's internal politics both adhere to canon info, but also to actually make sense.
I never had access to Warcraft RPG books, so from what I saw in-game, my assumption was that Thrall actually spent his time on centralizing the Horde and using the post-internment state to mostly remove clan identity entirely, to the point where only orcish communities living far from the Nation of Durothar retained it, and even then not all of them (Grom'gol, Stonard, Hammerfall...)
As a element of the above GM task, I look through stuff like the RPG books, the games, the novels (the ones I've read anyway), and then that all has to make sense as well. That's why I have the info posts, and happily no one's ever significant disagreed with them. The RPG books are good, they have lots of info, but they're also somewhat dated. For example, they're from a time when all magic was sort of the same, so they lump arcane and fel into the same sort of professions, and they're also trying to use the DnD system so there's talk of Prime Material Planes and stuff occasionally.

It's quite good though because I can tell my stuff is accurate because it aligns with the RPG books. This is because I'm extrapolating from logical stuff, so for example, in this quest Thrall's failure to stop Forneus led to some dissiluionment iwth Thrall's philosophy of shamanism, then from the books I just happen to have found:

"These orcs embrace shamanism not because they consider it worthwhile, but because Thrall considers it worthwhile... should an enemy deceive Thrall, disgrace him, or show him to be fallible —Thrall's followers may lose faith in their leader. The shock and disappointment of seeing Thrall as an ordinary orc might splinter his following and could break the back of the shamanistic movement"

I just use the pfds online usually, so from the Horde Players Guide, on clans: "Recently, Thrall dissolved the traditional orc clans, so that no further arbitrary decisions could separate one orc from another. Thus, most orc clans no longer exist. Beyond Durotar, however, remnants of the old clans survive, particularly among the Blackrock and Dragonmaw clans, who have no part in the current Horde"

Or

"When Thrall took command of the Horde as a whole, the Frostwolf Clan joined. Like all clans the joined the Horde, the Frostwolf clan no longer exists as a separate entity. Many former members of the clan still reside in the clan's old territory."

But this of course raises a question as to how the Horde works if there are no clans. If there's a load of blacksmiths who wear Blackrock colours, sing Blackrock songs, hang out in Blackrock bars, and do Blackrock things, rely on old clan ties and intermarry etc, how are they not Blackrock Orcs?

So in general I'd say that while Thrall's certainly made some efforts in centralising, and some people are ok with that, it's only been a single generation since the clans anyway, so you'll still get older people identifying as Clanned. I have remarked on the existance of teh 'Clanless' though, both as an underclass of poor people, but also as a class of non-Clan aligned individuals who are more loyal to the idea of a unified Horde.
 
While I'm certainly going to allow discussion of your response in general, I don't think I'd allow something so, frankly, pathetic. Yes Grok is big on cooperation, but he's just been attacked perfidiously by an agent of Thrall, if anything, his honour demands some sort of response. He's also got his soldeirs to look out for, he's acting as their chief, even if he's not formally accepted that title. Grok wouldn't be able to accept such a breach in the feudal contract he has with his warriors, it would be unthinkable.

This doesn't mean you'd have to go super against Thrall, but this isn't something that can be brushed off.

To put this in perspective, this isn't quite as bad as the murder of Thrall's parents by Gul'dan's assassins, but it's getting close to it.
Well, obviously we will defend our troops, but what response do you see our honor demanding? Contacting Neeru because of possible treachery against him and our clan? Razing whatever we can reach of Horde resources in Hammerfall? Going back to demand an explanation?

Can we defend ourselves without pursuing vengeance?

But this of course raises a question as to how the Horde works if there are no clans. If there's a load of blacksmiths who wear Blackrock colours, sing Blackrock songs, hang out in Blackrock bars, and do Blackrock things, rely on old clan ties and intermarry etc, how are they not Blackrock Orcs?
Did that happen ingame though? I remember Blackrock banners over Horde towers and over Thrall's throne, but the clan was so ingrained into the new all-Horde identity that its name was easily re-associated by Blacktooth Grin and whatever the heck Blackrock&Roll was.
In this quest we've had lots of Orgrimmar warlocks being affiliated with the Burning Blade, while in game their affiliation and leadership is less certain, and you mostly hear of "Burning Blade" when fighting cultists.
 
Alterac 6
Alterac 6

Many of your warriors had actually been here before.

Thrall had rallied your people here after he'd broken the internment camps. It had been a haven for a season, but the land proved unable to support such a large number of Orcs, and as you understood Thrall had moved south, in the mountains above Durnholde Keep to set up another camp.

Others, perhaps some of the Warsong left behind when Thrall led the exodus across the sea, had been here to trade, and you heard exclamations of greeting as you passed the Iceblood Garrison, so called, you learned, because a warrior had to have 'ice for blood' to man the station. While the Frostwolves were used to the cold of Draenor's Frostfire Ridge, other tribes had hailed from thick jungles or temperate grasslands, and were unused to such conditions.

You looked around you as you rode in at the head of the column. The valley of the Frostwolves was wide, not so wide as the Pass behind you, but wide enough all the same. You saw watchtowers, cunningly hidden from the front by rock and tree, but exposed behind now that you'd ridden past them, you saw burrows and defensive lines, as if the land itself had risen up to form natural impediments.

But then, this was the home of Drek'thar after all, the Elder Shaman of the Horde. He was to shamans as your own father was to warlocks, the oldest and wisest of his kind, the most skilled, the most able to speak with the Spirits.

Drek'thar's power was well known. Your father respected him, even if Neeru scorned him, for Drek'thar was a Farseer, the height of a shaman's power, the elders of their kind could perceive events before they happened, not merely hours or days in advance, but potentially years. They could read the skein of fate and were the most respected position in Orcish society, for while a warrior might challenge a Warchief, he would never challenge a Farseer.

This was a place of significance for your people, a place of history.

The Frostwolf village was as you might expect. Most of the buildings were huts half-dug into the ground, and the warriors here wore furs that covered their bodies. Many wore wolf pelts, and wolves stood beside them, the same wolves which gave them their clan name.

There were others though. Some of the buildings were larger, clearly military in purpose. Rough-cut stones built up several towers, and spiked wooden walls were between them as you drew closer to the Frostwolf Keep. It was strange to see, for you knew the stonework wasn't Orcish, for one the stones were simply too small, they'd have been inconvenient to cut. Had the Frostwolves torn down Dwarvish towers? Or perhaps raided human settlements for the stone itself? That would seem a strange thing to do, but the Frostwolves had been here for many years after all.

When they left Draenor, the Frostwolves had been the only clan not to drink demonblood. They had a reputation, even before your people descended into bloodlust, for keeping their heads, denying themselves the rage that was your people's heritage. You'd sympathised with that, in your childhood, for you too had mastered that rage, made it your servant.

Durotan, the Frostwolf chieftain, had been one of Blackhand's lieutenants, but shortly after the destruction of Stormwind the Frostwolves as a whole had departed, and you assumed they'd fought their way north up to Alterac. Durotan had been murdered by Gul'dan's assassins, and the clan had been led by Drek'thar ever since.

You admitted you were a little hazy on some of the details of the history. Thrall had called all Orcs to join him on the journey to Kalimdor, and apparently Drek'thar had gone along too. Had they left some Frostwolves behind as they had some of the other clans out east? Or had the Frostwolves collectively returned to Alterac afterward? You weren't entirely sure, but you knew that the Frostwolves, once a very small clan, were now one of the few cohesive 'clans' left in the Horde, for many had become like your own, maintain traditions and culture through specialist functions in the Horde. The Blackrock didn't have a chieftain either, save perhaps Rend, son of Blackhand, and he was opposed to Thrall anyway, but the Blackrock still maintained their position as the shock troops and smiths of the Horde after all.

Yours was the first generation not brought up under the clan structure. Gul'dan and Blackhand had formed the Horde swiftly, and it couldn't have been more than a decade since the Horde was first formed, to when the Dark Portal opened. In that time the clan structures had been broken down, and the internment camps had broken them further. Clans had mixed, been destroyed, families broken, and then all renewed when Thrall liberated your people. In the modern Horde, a clan was complex, and there were many reflections of it through society.

Here then you thought you saw what the Orcish people might once have been. Small clans, weak clans. Subject to attack by ogres or arakkoa.

But it was also a structure that had seen your people survive for centuries among the larger threats of Draenor. A structure that had furnished your people with a dozen unique traditions

You felt a sense of melancholy as you dismounted, but you didn't know quite why. You hand touches a decoration on your saddle, a little metal wolf head worked in harsh iron.

White wolf and black wolf, they stalk in a circle. White leaps, black's blood upon the snow.

You look up, and see a blind shaman staring at you from the doors of the keep.

Even veiled as he is, Drek'thar can see you, and the blindfold is only there as a mark of his status. He is tall, but perhaps thin, once no doubt as powerful as any orc, now withered with age. Indeed, you suspect he is the oldest orc you've ever seen, and it's strange to see an elder such as he in a race as martial as yours.

He nods his head back to the keep, then turns away, two wolves following him as well as his guards.

Vark sidles up. "He'll be wanting to see you then? I'll see the warriors settled."

"Delay as much as you can without causing suspicion." you replied, still watching Drek'thar walking away. He'd perhaps a hundred paces from you, just up a rise leading to the keep.

"What is it? What's wrong?" Vark asks quietly, putting his hand on your shoulder as you pretend to fiddle with your own wolf's gear.

"I don't know. But I saw something. An attack perhaps."

"Here?"

"I don't know. Just keep them ready."

Vark takes one look at your frown, then walks with exaggerated calm back towards Scorn.

You call for Sorek, give him the same instructions, though your banner-bearer is to accompany you to meet Drek'thar.

"They're orcs!" Sorek hisses. "They can't be planning to attack?!"

The aspirant blademasters walk surrounding you closely, Sorek and you in the middle of the knot of warriors. Only a dozen remain now, for you've taken losses to the Scourge in the months fighting against them.

"I know what I saw, but I don't know what it means." you reply quietly. The keep is close now. You can hardly draw your sword, it would be an insult. If you're attacked you'll dodge back, buy space and time for a draw…

You suppose you should be grateful at least that your warriors' trust in your own prophetic abilities is sufficient that you've not been questioned on it. Vark and Scorn will have travelled through the warriors now, spoken with the right people, and that should be enough.

Only you were permitted within the keep. It was rude, but not necessarily suspicious, with the Frostwolves being as cold as their homeland.

Frostwolf guards were surprisingly absent though, and you only saw a few there. That was good and bad, for you suspected it meant they were outside, and if that was too attack it meant they put their best where they'd do most.

Drek'thar sat on a throne, the image of a Farseer, his chest bare save for ritual markings, and richly inlaid bowls of reagents at his sides. Two wolves stood on either side of him, and when you entered they slowly padded around you to stand between you and the exit.

You had no patience for subterfuge though. It was dishonourable, this whole affair, but even as the fire built within you, you couldn't work out why…

"I have heard much of you, Blademaster." Drek'thar said, and like his body his voice spoke of withered strength.

"If you mean to attack me, have done with it at once." You replied, but still didn't draw your sword, even as the wolves behind you growled.

"You will fight." Drek'thar said, "I have seen it."

The Farseer stood, and rather than his staff he chose an axe and shortsword, drawing them from a rack at the side of his throne.

The fire in the ritual bowl burned, and the water in another rippled.

"But for the survival of our people, your clan must be destroyed…"

You felt them through the earth, a sudden movement outside the fortress, the attack on your people.

You felt them through the earth, the wolves leaping forward to hamstring you.

You felt them through the earth, Drek'thar's weight shifting, his feet lighter than they should be as he called on the Spirit of Air to speed his step.

You leapt.

High into the chamber, with wolf teeth snapping where you stood, with Drek'thar using his athame to cast a spear of ice as you soared, but then you came done.

The Fireblade blazed in the darkness, the pure fire outraged at Drek'thar's duplicity, outraged at the dishonour, and it blazed strong, cleaving through the spine of one wolf as you landed, springing forward.

Your blade bears down, Drek'thar blocks it, somehow getting to just the right angle for it, just the right angle to threaten you with his dagger, before you have to twist away dodging yet again as the remaining wolf almost bowls you over.

The Farseer opens his arms wide, imploring the spirits in their own tongues, calling on water and air to raise a mist with the chamber, and when you move to strike him the mist is like a wall, making your movements sluggish as if wading through a fast flowing river.

"I have seen it, I have seen your blade." Drek'thar intones, hurling spellfire toward you as he moves around the chamber in the mist, you only seeing the athame as he glows with each spell.

The room is cramped, and more than once you seem about to trip or be hit by a strike, before your own foresight warns you of it, a feeling at the back of your neck a feeling to-

You dart left, sword up, carving a deadly wound into the second wolf.

"I have seen the burning blade, thrusting into the earth, I have seen destruction, the Doomhammer sundered upon an iron hide."

Spell upon spell, the mist deadens your senses and movements both, and you shelter behind your sword, trying to feel out where Drek'thar is moving.

"Where once the future was bright, I see now only war. I see betrayal, I see fire, I see gifts that hide shackles."

The axe swings out of nowhere, a miasma of energy around it, and you meet it with the flat of your blade, shoving Drek'thar off back into the mist.

"Your clan is behind it, your clan will lead us into oblivion once again, and this time I will be there to stop it!"

With a cry the Farseer charges and battle roars in your heart.

For a man fifty years your senior, he fights well. You are more skilled, more powerful, but his foresight and instinctive control of his magic lets him match you.

"I will never allow that!" you growl in reply. Again you bash his weapons away, the greater weight of the Fireblade overcoming the Farseer's defences, yet you can't strike.

Do you hesitate to preserve his life? In the hopes that this is all some misunderstanding?

"You already have!" Drek'thar rasps, breathing quickly, for despite his admirable flexibility in dodging your blows, he is an old orc indeed. "Once I stood by, once I followed Darkness, but I will die before that happens again!"

"You begged Gul'dan to give you the Fel, you begged him on your knees!"

Drek'thar only bellows, and you see the ritual bowls surge with energy!

You must get away, but if you turn to try and retreat, Drek'thar will kill you.

Myzrael's bracer thrums with power on your wrist, and the pure flame burns in your heart.

You must get away, back to the warband, to retreat if you can.

You must get away.

Choose 1:


[ ] Call on the Pure Flame

[ ] Call on Myzrael
 
[ ] Call on Myzrael

Elemental might be more likely to convince him instead of the Light. Orcs still don't like Paladins.

[ ] Call on the Pure Flame

Or maybe we should go with the Light. They must know what it means.
 
Welp.

Haven't really been commenting for the most part because I'm kind of treating this more as a fiction than a quest given how virtually everything is decided by dice rolls that are all over the place, but holy hell this was a massive escalation.

Like, literally the only outcome here that's good for Thrall is a total wipe of Grok's forces and a successful burying of the events, just making him taken down by something else. It's an act of utter desperation because there is no turning back from this. Even success will destroy his reputation if he can't make all the evidence Go Away because this is Just Not Done. It's treachery only one step beneath the one that left him an orphan. The real irony here too is that he's mirroring his folly with Garrosh, just in a completely different direction--he has a gut feeling about someone and proceeds to build a box around them that there's no escape from. In Garrosh's case, it was "His father was a noble hero, he must also have the potential to be a great leader of the Orcs", which remained the case until it was far too late to stop him. In Grok's case, it's "His father is a heretic who's gnawing at the foundations of the Horde, he must be no different and anything to the contrary is part of the Plan." It's consistent with his characterization, even if it's taking it in novel directions.

Which is kind of why I feel that this was Enemy Action, because Dreadlords are memetic manipulation masters who effectively make free will an illusion because none of their plans actually fail in execution no matter how complex they become--only when an unexpectedly powerful force rolls in and hits it in the kneecaps at a critical moment (And that only starts becoming a thing when you get World of Warcraft protagonists in play, and even then, the schemes still happen, it's just that they get their kneecaps broken when they go loud, but that doesn't matter because Dreadlords are undying monsters who just respawn no matter how thorough you are in wrecking their faces.) Thrall's message was probably. "I don't fully trust him so turn him away.", but the message got doctored to turn into "I think he's going to destroy the horde, do what you can", and then Drek's visions were clouded to make him confirm that and play into all of his own trauma.

Tell me, has this game ever had a nat 100 happen though? Because I think this is the second Nat 1 that's rolled in and completely upturned everything by now.
 
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So Grok finally gets IC hints that he is being manipulated by dark forces. Too bad its via a respected elder trying to murder him.

So this may lead to Grok's warband killing a ton of Frostwolves.

[x] Call on the Pure Flame
 
[x] Call on the Pure Flame
Well shit that escalated quickly, I didn't except Drek'thar to walk up to Grok and try and ice him. I thought he'd be more clever about it and use his visions to try and orchestrate Grok's death, you know like a smart person. Grok really got Drek'thar with the you begged on your knees for the Fel.

Grok's thoughts about Orc society, rage, the Frostwolves and Drek'thar are really interesting. I'm interested in seeing how Grok's views shift with this whole mess.
 
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I don't know what either will do. Maybe both may kill Drek Thar. But with Myzrael she's much more likely to get set loose if her power is relied upon and it was miscast.
 
[x] Call on the Pure Flame

Who knows what the hell they're thinking, let's try to shed some light on the situation.
@Alectai
The one that comes to mind is early on we insta-resolved Vok'fon and his 50 raptor riders into returning to the Darkspear.
 
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