I never thought it would lead to that post.
My response would be just expressing surprise at some many likes in a couple of hours.
Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)
- Thread starter FractiousDay
- Start date
- Fantasy
My response would be just expressing surprise at some many likes in a couple of hours.
- Location
- United Kingdom
It's all from a single quote I found on some bombing campaign, I suspect earlier in the war than dresden
It was just amusement really. Some people like to leave likes on each post. I also get people still favouriting my old fics on FF. I've even have people conduct multi-theater like bombing campaigns when they've liked the same thread which has been crossposted on different forums as I tend to do.
Lots of people do it here though or on SB etc, and I find it interesting to see people reaching 12 chapters then taking a break and reading more, it's interesting to see that progression someone reading through the story. If you did have any comments do let me know @afterthought53
Hey, I just caught up with the quest. Like most people, I liked certain decisions Grok made and disagreed with others but thats standard in quests. As far as the way the quest is run, I like more narrative quests rather than dice based as as I feel they are more consistent in the development of the story.
I enjoyed the political balancing act of Grok trying to be a good Burning Blade Heir, support the Horde, and work towards saving Azeroth. All while working with imperfect information so mistakes get made along the way. As such, I was disappointed when it looked like Grok was going to be a lone Wanderer after the Deadmist Peak fiasco but was relieved to see we got a warband and would continue to be involved politically.
I feel like there's been a lot of missed opportunity with the Feldad interactions and Dark Shamanism as some people try to stick to a Black and White view of Good and Evil rather than a grey view which I favor.
I enjoyed the political balancing act of Grok trying to be a good Burning Blade Heir, support the Horde, and work towards saving Azeroth. All while working with imperfect information so mistakes get made along the way. As such, I was disappointed when it looked like Grok was going to be a lone Wanderer after the Deadmist Peak fiasco but was relieved to see we got a warband and would continue to be involved politically.
I feel like there's been a lot of missed opportunity with the Feldad interactions and Dark Shamanism as some people try to stick to a Black and White view of Good and Evil rather than a grey view which I favor.
If there's a chance I'm interested in seeing what Keldran will try if he gets access to necromancy books. It's going to get real interesting with our own necrolyte who with his years of age might end up as a lich.
@FractiousDay does the lich have his own books to loot?
Last edited:
- Location
- United Kingdom
Sure, don't see why not. Might be too advanced though so keep that in mind. Anderhol will have various things in it that I won't think of necessarily so if there's something you want and it's sensible for a large city to have that then sure.
The RPG says it has its own school of necromancy whether that has merit or not is up to you.
But it was the same place where Arthas killed Uther a lot of paladins so maybe there's a few knick knacks left behind that.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Yea they conflate scholomance and anderhol in the RPG but I'm separating them here
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
And I think that plenty of people ignore that you can still have things be grey while still having things which are still black and white.
Such as the magics which are based off of torture-murder/desecration in order to function and the other magic that requires the enslavement of sentient beings with dramatic and disasterous effects on the world around it to work as well.
We do a lot of grey things, doesn't mean we have to force more into it.
You're a bit of a party pooper but since I don't see afterthought doing much in the thread it wouldn't affect where the quest goes.
There's not much votes recently. I think the most active was us two planning the majority of it.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Who knows, we shall see when the next vote comes along.
If I ever have a finger on the pulse of the story, it seems we did relatively well if what Fractious says about the battle?
I'm not sure about the village.
If the battle went well it means armor loot and other random loot. Books for Keldran even if it's too advanced but Castiillian might want them who's Vari's creature or is it more that he's Vari's outside meatpuppet?
- Location
- United Kingdom
I am indeed about, just to note. I've been concentrating on another quest and IRL stuff, but looking at finishing off the next chapter on this one now.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Sorry, didn't see a notification for this. It's a mix. I was writing orc quest for like 9 months, and managed like 200k, so I got a bit tired of it. I admit Compliance is interesting me more at the moment, so yea, for that reason it's easier to write. Compliance does have that nice new quest feel in general, but yea I'm going to get around to the post for this one at some point, I've got some stuff in my notes already about it. Having said that, I was considering putting it on hiatus after that till I'm motivated enough to come back to it. I'm still interested in it, but I'd want to make a few changes like longer turn times because I don't really want to slog through another load of 6 week turns.
Alright. Whenever you're ready.
Lordaeron Turn 6 Results
- Location
- United Kingdom
Lordaeron Turn 6 Results
This is back, and will be for at least a couple of chapters. A mixture of things caused me to stop writing it, including being a bit burnt out on it, a lack of reader engagement, a general disillusionment with Warcraft stuff, and being busy with other things. I'm intending to write the Anderhol chapter and finish off the Tirasfel arc at least, and we'll see how I feel after that.
You examine the device in your hands.
"It's heavy, they won't go far." you say, looking up at your brother.
"I can't make them any lighter, they need to be heavy, otherwise they'll bounce off." replies Vark.
The Mag'har has been working on ways to bring down the larger undead without having to get close, and so far he's come up with variations on his gunpowder bombs, a development from those he made before the attack on the Kul Tiran tower, a year past by this point.
In your hands in a large spear, ten feet long, with a barbed point and a tightly bound packet of gunpowder and nails attached just behind the head. The undead care little for slashing swords or hacking axes, but Vark's bomb spear will take one down if thrust into the chest, or if it hit a limb it'll at least blow it off.
"We must move quickly if we're to take the city, after you can improve them, perhaps, but for now they'll do. How many can you make?"
You negotiate for a time with Vark. The Kul Tirans and Dwarves currently supply most of the Scarlet Crusade's gunpowder and the substance is rationed carefully. An arrow will take down most shamblers, and much of the gunpowder is reserved for dragoon companies, mounted riflemen who patrol the major roads across the kingdom. Besides that, you're sure the Crusade has larger stores for it's cannon and similar, though Dathrohan's army has few of that for the present.
The other preparations have perhaps gone less well. The warband, used to the raiding warfare of the Horde, has adapted comparatively poorly to drill and discipline. However, Targorr 'the Dread', the Blackrock executioner captured and then released to your service, has made himself invaluable, instilling in the varied orcs the need for a certain inner strength, the discipline of a shieldwall rather than the valour of the charge.
Vark's contributions, the new discipline, and finally your own training will be enough. The warband are better now than when you found them. They respect you, and they obey their officers. There's been some grumblings about adopting human forms of warfare, but after all you are fighting a human war, and most of the orcs accept that. For those that don't, they fear your skill, they fear your blade, at least they fear it enough to keep their silence.
You move through the warm up to your calisthenics, another matter that's been occupying your time. Being a Blademaster requires a truly superb level of physical fitness, and just the warm up sees you leaping across the training ground, somersaulting, duelling with shadows, sweeping the Fireblade around your head. Soon your aspirants join in but you throw each back in turn, even multiple of them at a time. Sorek is last, but where once he'd been able to win two of three matches against you, you've far eclipsed him now, even his superior size and reach no match for your skill.
Finally, the match is over, and the true training begins, Sesk first, the Blademaster's fel-red eyes burning in glee as he matches you strike for strike, both your blade burning while Ishi shouts advice and corrections. Your face streams with sweat and your hair bounces on your back as the braid sweeps around after swift dodge, but Sesk's fist lashes out, magic bulging in his muscles as the strike comes up, catching you in the chest and throwing you back.
You feel the Elements as you duel. Those of Lordaeron are muted, for there have been few shaman in this land in many years, not since the Second War at least. But the fire within your sword is stronger. Your passion, your purpose, stoke it. They fuel the spirit, or the memory of a spirit at least, and the blade blazes strong.
After an hour or more, in which Sesk changes with Ishi, and you finally end the duel, winding down, stretching, cleansing yourself and finally returning to your tent.
The wind laps at the doorway, and it reminds you briefly of the Great Ocean, of how you and Vark would sit outside on the beach at Sen'jin and watch the moons rise.
That was peace, now you are at war, and have a warrior's work to do.
"What must I do?"
Castillian, the obviously undead mage in the Crusade's service, sits across from you as you hold a small rock. It sparkles with magic, but is otherwise relatively unimpressive.
"Nothing actually, that's the beauty of it." the mage replies, the bandages across his face moving as he speaks. Some of the undead wear such garments, others merely deep hoods, but almost all try to hide themselves in some way to conceal the horror of their condition. It is revolting, yet fascinating. According to your father, undead lack true spirits, and you find the existence of supposedly soulless sentience fascinating. Was it merely your father's prejudices against them? Shaman could call the spirits of the ancestors up to ask them for advice or summon their power against a foe, but what then animated the undead?
You thought it best not to ask at the moment. It was rude really. It also occoured to you that there was the question of Alonsus Faol, the priest who had contracted the Plague of Undeath, but managed to retain his soul, seemingly at least.
"Actually, come sit over here." Castillian says, and you move as he bids you, "Your sword is throwing me off."
"Why? Does it's magic… distract you?", in truth you had no idea what Castillian was actually doing.
"Somewhat yes, it's ancient and powerful, I can sense that as easily as you can. But's it's more the contamination. You have strange magic in you, probably because you're an Orc."
"My father is the Elder Warlock of the Horde." you reply, "The Fel is practiced openly in my clan, as well as shadow magic and other forms."
"No it's not that." Castillian replies, though you feel his interest in the Burning Blade increase, "It's the Spirits. The Sunwell to the north shackles them, as does Dalaran, or at least it did once. The world's magic travels in leylines under the ground, mages use that, their connection to the world, to wield the Arcane. We do not separate Arcane magic into it's constituent Elements, it's strange to me, but it's not a problem, the Mightstone will still work."
Castillian had escaped the Crusade's torturous testing only because of his utility. As you understand, when the Crusade found themselves lacking certain functions when it had first been formed. The Paladins who had been trained in the Second War were all old by now, in their sixties and seventies at least, an almost unthinkable age for the martial culture of the Orcs. Yet, their experience could not be kept at home, such was the desperation of Lordaeron's situation that even old men were sent into battle, indeed, they were preferred in some cases because if they died they wouldn't consume resources anymore. It was a savage calculus, but one you recognised well. Whenever Orcs cost the community more than they contributed it was expected that they go out and match themselves against a foe, falling in battle in one last time. Castillian had reversed this, by his hand the elders of the Alliance were made strong again, give 'Mightstones', attuned to their bodies specifically, elevating their physical abilities again to the prime of their lives, which, with the Light, allowed the Silver Hand to ride out again to battle.
"I haven't made one of these for a non-human before." Castillian remarks, making gestures to manipulate the Mightstone's magic as it rests around your neck, "The Dwarves become strong as stone as they age, the Elves have no use for them, and the Gnomes tend to use their technomancy as much as anything, but don't live long enough anyway. But this must be precisely calibrated if you're to take Anderhol."
While word of your intention had spread through certain factions in the Crusade's leadership, the Crusaders had kept it quiet for the most part, welcoming the surprise it would cause to the Scourge and any spies they had around the camp. The Crusaders might once have relied utterly on the loyalty of their personnel, but now they had become less isolationist, accepting various reinforcements, there's the fear of infiltration, and Dathronhan's red guards, led by Renault Mograine himself, guard all critical locations and persons.
You and Kartha had managed to evade them in your journey to Deathknell. The warrior of the Shattered Hand had procurred two horses and you'd ridden hard, evading patrolls of Crusaders and undead both till you'd come to the hidden glen where the Forsaken of the area intended to hide themselves.
"You say these things," Executioner Arren, the commander of the village remarks, his voice rasping as many of the Forsaken do, "Yet you can provide no guarentees. Why should we do anything but what we intend now?"
They do not actually provide arguments, and you'd found it difficult to reason with the Executioner.
"The Crusade are expanding." you'd insisted, "They will be here within months at the latest, if you are discovered, you will not survive."
But Arren had ignored you, bidding you leave. On the ride back you'd comiserated with Kartha. You had tried after all, there was little you could do. Even at best, the Scarlets would have slaughtered many of them and subjected the rest to torment. At Brill, only thirty of several hundred had survived. Perhaps it was best you'd hadn't been successful.
In any case, there was no point living in the past. Thrall did so, and he had stranded the Horde in a narrow place for the misdeeds of Orcs dead twenty years. You had no wish to become the same.
"My clan has interests in the interactions of magic." you remark, "I've invited Whitemane and Keldran here to speak on the matter."
And indeed, in a short time they appear. Keldran enters first, you can smell the shadow magic on him, while Whitemane comes in second, apparently slightly offended that Keldran didn't hold the tent flap open.
Another strange human custom no doubt.
"Castillian has used Arcane magic to make old men young again, can the Light do the same?" you ask Whitemane as she comes in, propping her staff against the central pillar of your tent and sitting down.
She contemplates for a moment, "Perhaps, but that is not in the power of the healer to decide."
"And could Arcane magic return a dead person to life as Light and Shadow magic can?"
That question provokes a burst of discussion, and you grin as you listen.
"The Shadow does not return the dead as the Light does!" Whitemane proclaims, "The Shadow is a perversion, nothing more!"
"Arcane magic is Order made manifest, it cannot be used for a disorderly purpose, just as the Light cannot be used to create darkness, or restrict a person." Castillian gives his own perspective.
"I was at the Battle of Southshore." Keldran says, "I saw the first paladins match the first death knights blow for blow, they used the Light to harm and bind there."
"Yet that was against the undead, of course…" and Whitemane continues her explanation, though as she goes on you do not credit it particularly. Perhaps some magics are better than others at certain things, the Arcane seems superior for larger civilisations like cities than smaller groups like tribes, and certainly the Fel couldn't heal like the Light does, but Whitemane describes the Light with great differences than the others do.
"The Light requires compassion, it requires a just use and a just wielder, you may consider it a weapon," Whiteman explains, "But in truth it is not, not like the Fel. The Elves found that to their cost. They lost their purpose, they altered the land and the seas to remove all hardship, they became decadent, they lost the respect for life that Humanity has, they forgot that life is struggle, they relied always on their magics and the incredible power of the Sunwell. Finally, they couldn't make the final step, they lost their compassion for others, they became disconnected from the world."
You've heard of these virtues before, Fordring peached of them, as did the undead Faol, and you state as such, "I am aware of the Three Virtues," you say, "that the awareness of self and the awareness of one's connection with the world is the base of the Light, and that the subsequent dedication to serving the world and the knowledge that any action creates change because of this connection leads to the Second Virtue, but the third remains unclear to me. It seems that students would be better taught Compassion first, rather than last."
Whitemane smiles, "It is a common enough question, the answer, of course, is that Compassion is dangerous. Without respect, compassion can do more harm than good, and without the experience of struggle yourself, you have no experience in how to be compassionate in the first place. Again, this was where the Elves feel from grace, they forgot all of the Three Virtues, and it led them astray. The Light isn't merely a tool, it's the beneficence of the universe. None can wield the Light without purpose, but with such purpose you can be invincible!"
You look to Keldran, "Is it the same with Shadow magic? My father wields the Fel though sacrifice and discipline, but he masters it, he does not worship it. What mindset is required for the Shadow?"
Keldran considers for a moment, then speaks, "Nothingness." he says quietly, almost as a whisper. "Perhaps the Light requires you to consider yourself at the centre of the universe, that yours is the righteous cause, but it's the opposite with the Shadow. The Shadowmoon were first to wield it, first among Orcs, though others on Draenor used it too. They worshipped the Dark Star, it gave them visions, it showed them a vast void, an outer darkness hostile to life, it showed them how small they were. To wield the Void you must embrace that nothingness. I watched our people's beliefs die in that Valley. Gul'dan spoke the Cipher of Damnation, he struck down Cyrukh, the embodiment of Draenor's Elements. Then we travelled to Azeroth and Doomhammer slew the warlocks, again, my world was shattered. Purpose? Purpose is inimical to the Void, for Shadow shrouds, rather than illuminates."
Keldran lapses into a silent contemplation and the tent grows quiet.
"The Arcane is also different." Castillian chimes in, "It requires neither purpose nor this nihilism, it requires a mage to have a mindset of possibility and contemplation. You ask yourself, can this be done? To what extent, how and when? That's one reason the Church of the Light has never gotten along with the Kirin Tor. Oh, and incidentally, I've finished, you're ready." and he moves away, the Mightstone resting on your chest.
The conversation seems to have depressed Keldran and Whitemane, though perhaps for different reasons. You dismiss them, moving out of the tent and looking east.
Anderhol awaits.
This is back, and will be for at least a couple of chapters. A mixture of things caused me to stop writing it, including being a bit burnt out on it, a lack of reader engagement, a general disillusionment with Warcraft stuff, and being busy with other things. I'm intending to write the Anderhol chapter and finish off the Tirasfel arc at least, and we'll see how I feel after that.
[X] Plan Operation Shadow Moses
-[X] Training the Warband in defensive tactics
-[X] Requisition defence supplies
-[X] Deathknell
-[X] The Blade Reborn (2 Actions)
-[X] Mightstone
Reconnection and Anderhol actions to be resolved in the next chapter.
-[X] Training the Warband in defensive tactics
-[X] Requisition defence supplies
-[X] Deathknell
-[X] The Blade Reborn (2 Actions)
-[X] Mightstone
Reconnection and Anderhol actions to be resolved in the next chapter.
You examine the device in your hands.
"It's heavy, they won't go far." you say, looking up at your brother.
"I can't make them any lighter, they need to be heavy, otherwise they'll bounce off." replies Vark.
The Mag'har has been working on ways to bring down the larger undead without having to get close, and so far he's come up with variations on his gunpowder bombs, a development from those he made before the attack on the Kul Tiran tower, a year past by this point.
In your hands in a large spear, ten feet long, with a barbed point and a tightly bound packet of gunpowder and nails attached just behind the head. The undead care little for slashing swords or hacking axes, but Vark's bomb spear will take one down if thrust into the chest, or if it hit a limb it'll at least blow it off.
"We must move quickly if we're to take the city, after you can improve them, perhaps, but for now they'll do. How many can you make?"
You negotiate for a time with Vark. The Kul Tirans and Dwarves currently supply most of the Scarlet Crusade's gunpowder and the substance is rationed carefully. An arrow will take down most shamblers, and much of the gunpowder is reserved for dragoon companies, mounted riflemen who patrol the major roads across the kingdom. Besides that, you're sure the Crusade has larger stores for it's cannon and similar, though Dathrohan's army has few of that for the present.
The other preparations have perhaps gone less well. The warband, used to the raiding warfare of the Horde, has adapted comparatively poorly to drill and discipline. However, Targorr 'the Dread', the Blackrock executioner captured and then released to your service, has made himself invaluable, instilling in the varied orcs the need for a certain inner strength, the discipline of a shieldwall rather than the valour of the charge.
Vark's contributions, the new discipline, and finally your own training will be enough. The warband are better now than when you found them. They respect you, and they obey their officers. There's been some grumblings about adopting human forms of warfare, but after all you are fighting a human war, and most of the orcs accept that. For those that don't, they fear your skill, they fear your blade, at least they fear it enough to keep their silence.
You move through the warm up to your calisthenics, another matter that's been occupying your time. Being a Blademaster requires a truly superb level of physical fitness, and just the warm up sees you leaping across the training ground, somersaulting, duelling with shadows, sweeping the Fireblade around your head. Soon your aspirants join in but you throw each back in turn, even multiple of them at a time. Sorek is last, but where once he'd been able to win two of three matches against you, you've far eclipsed him now, even his superior size and reach no match for your skill.
Finally, the match is over, and the true training begins, Sesk first, the Blademaster's fel-red eyes burning in glee as he matches you strike for strike, both your blade burning while Ishi shouts advice and corrections. Your face streams with sweat and your hair bounces on your back as the braid sweeps around after swift dodge, but Sesk's fist lashes out, magic bulging in his muscles as the strike comes up, catching you in the chest and throwing you back.
You feel the Elements as you duel. Those of Lordaeron are muted, for there have been few shaman in this land in many years, not since the Second War at least. But the fire within your sword is stronger. Your passion, your purpose, stoke it. They fuel the spirit, or the memory of a spirit at least, and the blade blazes strong.
After an hour or more, in which Sesk changes with Ishi, and you finally end the duel, winding down, stretching, cleansing yourself and finally returning to your tent.
The wind laps at the doorway, and it reminds you briefly of the Great Ocean, of how you and Vark would sit outside on the beach at Sen'jin and watch the moons rise.
That was peace, now you are at war, and have a warrior's work to do.
"What must I do?"
Castillian, the obviously undead mage in the Crusade's service, sits across from you as you hold a small rock. It sparkles with magic, but is otherwise relatively unimpressive.
"Nothing actually, that's the beauty of it." the mage replies, the bandages across his face moving as he speaks. Some of the undead wear such garments, others merely deep hoods, but almost all try to hide themselves in some way to conceal the horror of their condition. It is revolting, yet fascinating. According to your father, undead lack true spirits, and you find the existence of supposedly soulless sentience fascinating. Was it merely your father's prejudices against them? Shaman could call the spirits of the ancestors up to ask them for advice or summon their power against a foe, but what then animated the undead?
You thought it best not to ask at the moment. It was rude really. It also occoured to you that there was the question of Alonsus Faol, the priest who had contracted the Plague of Undeath, but managed to retain his soul, seemingly at least.
"Actually, come sit over here." Castillian says, and you move as he bids you, "Your sword is throwing me off."
"Why? Does it's magic… distract you?", in truth you had no idea what Castillian was actually doing.
"Somewhat yes, it's ancient and powerful, I can sense that as easily as you can. But's it's more the contamination. You have strange magic in you, probably because you're an Orc."
"My father is the Elder Warlock of the Horde." you reply, "The Fel is practiced openly in my clan, as well as shadow magic and other forms."
"No it's not that." Castillian replies, though you feel his interest in the Burning Blade increase, "It's the Spirits. The Sunwell to the north shackles them, as does Dalaran, or at least it did once. The world's magic travels in leylines under the ground, mages use that, their connection to the world, to wield the Arcane. We do not separate Arcane magic into it's constituent Elements, it's strange to me, but it's not a problem, the Mightstone will still work."
Castillian had escaped the Crusade's torturous testing only because of his utility. As you understand, when the Crusade found themselves lacking certain functions when it had first been formed. The Paladins who had been trained in the Second War were all old by now, in their sixties and seventies at least, an almost unthinkable age for the martial culture of the Orcs. Yet, their experience could not be kept at home, such was the desperation of Lordaeron's situation that even old men were sent into battle, indeed, they were preferred in some cases because if they died they wouldn't consume resources anymore. It was a savage calculus, but one you recognised well. Whenever Orcs cost the community more than they contributed it was expected that they go out and match themselves against a foe, falling in battle in one last time. Castillian had reversed this, by his hand the elders of the Alliance were made strong again, give 'Mightstones', attuned to their bodies specifically, elevating their physical abilities again to the prime of their lives, which, with the Light, allowed the Silver Hand to ride out again to battle.
"I haven't made one of these for a non-human before." Castillian remarks, making gestures to manipulate the Mightstone's magic as it rests around your neck, "The Dwarves become strong as stone as they age, the Elves have no use for them, and the Gnomes tend to use their technomancy as much as anything, but don't live long enough anyway. But this must be precisely calibrated if you're to take Anderhol."
While word of your intention had spread through certain factions in the Crusade's leadership, the Crusaders had kept it quiet for the most part, welcoming the surprise it would cause to the Scourge and any spies they had around the camp. The Crusaders might once have relied utterly on the loyalty of their personnel, but now they had become less isolationist, accepting various reinforcements, there's the fear of infiltration, and Dathronhan's red guards, led by Renault Mograine himself, guard all critical locations and persons.
You and Kartha had managed to evade them in your journey to Deathknell. The warrior of the Shattered Hand had procurred two horses and you'd ridden hard, evading patrolls of Crusaders and undead both till you'd come to the hidden glen where the Forsaken of the area intended to hide themselves.
"You say these things," Executioner Arren, the commander of the village remarks, his voice rasping as many of the Forsaken do, "Yet you can provide no guarentees. Why should we do anything but what we intend now?"
They do not actually provide arguments, and you'd found it difficult to reason with the Executioner.
"The Crusade are expanding." you'd insisted, "They will be here within months at the latest, if you are discovered, you will not survive."
But Arren had ignored you, bidding you leave. On the ride back you'd comiserated with Kartha. You had tried after all, there was little you could do. Even at best, the Scarlets would have slaughtered many of them and subjected the rest to torment. At Brill, only thirty of several hundred had survived. Perhaps it was best you'd hadn't been successful.
In any case, there was no point living in the past. Thrall did so, and he had stranded the Horde in a narrow place for the misdeeds of Orcs dead twenty years. You had no wish to become the same.
"My clan has interests in the interactions of magic." you remark, "I've invited Whitemane and Keldran here to speak on the matter."
And indeed, in a short time they appear. Keldran enters first, you can smell the shadow magic on him, while Whitemane comes in second, apparently slightly offended that Keldran didn't hold the tent flap open.
Another strange human custom no doubt.
"Castillian has used Arcane magic to make old men young again, can the Light do the same?" you ask Whitemane as she comes in, propping her staff against the central pillar of your tent and sitting down.
She contemplates for a moment, "Perhaps, but that is not in the power of the healer to decide."
"And could Arcane magic return a dead person to life as Light and Shadow magic can?"
That question provokes a burst of discussion, and you grin as you listen.
"The Shadow does not return the dead as the Light does!" Whitemane proclaims, "The Shadow is a perversion, nothing more!"
"Arcane magic is Order made manifest, it cannot be used for a disorderly purpose, just as the Light cannot be used to create darkness, or restrict a person." Castillian gives his own perspective.
"I was at the Battle of Southshore." Keldran says, "I saw the first paladins match the first death knights blow for blow, they used the Light to harm and bind there."
"Yet that was against the undead, of course…" and Whitemane continues her explanation, though as she goes on you do not credit it particularly. Perhaps some magics are better than others at certain things, the Arcane seems superior for larger civilisations like cities than smaller groups like tribes, and certainly the Fel couldn't heal like the Light does, but Whitemane describes the Light with great differences than the others do.
"The Light requires compassion, it requires a just use and a just wielder, you may consider it a weapon," Whiteman explains, "But in truth it is not, not like the Fel. The Elves found that to their cost. They lost their purpose, they altered the land and the seas to remove all hardship, they became decadent, they lost the respect for life that Humanity has, they forgot that life is struggle, they relied always on their magics and the incredible power of the Sunwell. Finally, they couldn't make the final step, they lost their compassion for others, they became disconnected from the world."
You've heard of these virtues before, Fordring peached of them, as did the undead Faol, and you state as such, "I am aware of the Three Virtues," you say, "that the awareness of self and the awareness of one's connection with the world is the base of the Light, and that the subsequent dedication to serving the world and the knowledge that any action creates change because of this connection leads to the Second Virtue, but the third remains unclear to me. It seems that students would be better taught Compassion first, rather than last."
Whitemane smiles, "It is a common enough question, the answer, of course, is that Compassion is dangerous. Without respect, compassion can do more harm than good, and without the experience of struggle yourself, you have no experience in how to be compassionate in the first place. Again, this was where the Elves feel from grace, they forgot all of the Three Virtues, and it led them astray. The Light isn't merely a tool, it's the beneficence of the universe. None can wield the Light without purpose, but with such purpose you can be invincible!"
You look to Keldran, "Is it the same with Shadow magic? My father wields the Fel though sacrifice and discipline, but he masters it, he does not worship it. What mindset is required for the Shadow?"
Keldran considers for a moment, then speaks, "Nothingness." he says quietly, almost as a whisper. "Perhaps the Light requires you to consider yourself at the centre of the universe, that yours is the righteous cause, but it's the opposite with the Shadow. The Shadowmoon were first to wield it, first among Orcs, though others on Draenor used it too. They worshipped the Dark Star, it gave them visions, it showed them a vast void, an outer darkness hostile to life, it showed them how small they were. To wield the Void you must embrace that nothingness. I watched our people's beliefs die in that Valley. Gul'dan spoke the Cipher of Damnation, he struck down Cyrukh, the embodiment of Draenor's Elements. Then we travelled to Azeroth and Doomhammer slew the warlocks, again, my world was shattered. Purpose? Purpose is inimical to the Void, for Shadow shrouds, rather than illuminates."
Keldran lapses into a silent contemplation and the tent grows quiet.
"The Arcane is also different." Castillian chimes in, "It requires neither purpose nor this nihilism, it requires a mage to have a mindset of possibility and contemplation. You ask yourself, can this be done? To what extent, how and when? That's one reason the Church of the Light has never gotten along with the Kirin Tor. Oh, and incidentally, I've finished, you're ready." and he moves away, the Mightstone resting on your chest.
The conversation seems to have depressed Keldran and Whitemane, though perhaps for different reasons. You dismiss them, moving out of the tent and looking east.
Anderhol awaits.
It's alive, it's alive! Mu ha ha ha!
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Well we tried. He can wash his hands off that mess.
Delicious magical theory debates.
Return of the firelance.
Fire Lance
A spear of southern design with an explosive charge that will spew fire over two tiles when ignited. The charge is only usable once per battle, but automatically refilled after battle. Can be bought at a Marketplace in southern city states. Can be bought from an Alchemist. Can be looted from...
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Nice to see this again, hopefully I won't be a problem this time.
That said, as with a lot of things shadow and light feel like the best way to control their excesses is to reach for the other, hence why its presumably easier to reach for the other if you know one and are willing to use it. Problem as always is time.
As for the latter I've not been keeping up that much with wow stuff, but I've not heard great things.
Grumbles. WoW's the closest thing I know of to a fantasy mass effect. Just the world-building problems are even worse. Uncanny valley in full effect.
mmm...well that's not a good sign in a meta sense.
Bout what my thoughts were, and I'd certainly welcome a shadow that's less hard coded as evil. My fear is that will be tricky since shadow is rarely if ever anything, but baby eating evil.
That said, as with a lot of things shadow and light feel like the best way to control their excesses is to reach for the other, hence why its presumably easier to reach for the other if you know one and are willing to use it. Problem as always is time.
Mine apologies for the former I feel I probably contributed to that.
As for the latter I've not been keeping up that much with wow stuff, but I've not heard great things.
Grumbles. WoW's the closest thing I know of to a fantasy mass effect. Just the world-building problems are even worse. Uncanny valley in full effect.
I get this vibe of a mindset towards it. You could say a sort of zen that each adherent to a particular field would reach if their personality is well suited to it.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
The irony is the safest users of most magic are probably the ones who are the most naturally antagonistic to it.
So by that you mean for example followers of the light that are fully in tune with it would act more primal than rational to carry out acts of zealousness compared to someone that's more rational or in doubt?
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Yea it's a major problem lol. To an extent with necromancy you can do the whole 'honoured ancestors' thing. A 40k Dreadnought is basically a necromantic thing, in terms of theme. However, fundamentally you're never really going to get necromancy to be as 'nice' as druidism or something.
Potentially you could get Warcraft shadow magic less as deathly and more as WFB Lore of Shadows, something associated with misdirection or subtlety, but again it just doesn't really work like that because of where magic comes from in Warcraft.
That's potentially one of the odd things about the Burning Legion. It's a very orderly organisation run by a former Titan (a being of Arcane magic and Order etc) but it's job is to do fel stuff and be disorderly.
Not really you. You've occasionally been confrontational but it's been pretty fair so it's not really referring to you. It's more that in Lordaeron 6 there was only 4 votes, while I know that at least 100 people are reading it. It's a constant struggle to actually get people to engage, which I find a little weird given this is interactive fiction. I remember, for example, the discussions when you were choosing your Arc 2 setting and Desolace vs Lordaeron etc, that was really cool, it's always nice to get people participating, but in other bits discussion just dies off and there's a question as to why I'm writing it in the first place. I could just go play Dota or something. I do enjoy writing but yes it's problematic.
As to WoW, yea it's a mess. I did a couple of months of Classic, and was writing this concurrently and was really enjoying it, I did BWL etc and other stuff which I never got round to in like 2008 or whenever, but then BfA happened, and then Shadowlands, which have generally been received as pretty poor expansions. It's not only that it was very poorly written but it was also poorly executed and just seemed pretty boring. There was some stuff around corporate culutre at Blizzard as well which while I'm not personally affected by, also put me off somewhat.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Pretty much.
I mean that someone fully intune with the light would have absolutely no self doubt or question their own actions yes, and by extension would do things completely convinced of their moral righteousness.
Where as someone who is able to question why they think that might be less powerful, but less likely to go canon scarlet crusade.
I mean given the state of blizzard lore I at least would feel 100% justified in throwing out what they've got where I want too. It won't always work, but probably still better than the dumpster fire.
For shadow/the void for example, having it as the light's opposite, should be able to work fine. Its uncertainty where the light is confident, where the light responds well to following very strict guidelines (which for azeroth at least are positive ones) shadow/void should work without that at all and be at its most potent when the individual determines what they want to do with it.
After all if it inspires "nothing" then go the full nihilism (not the dumb kind), if there is no objective morality then live by what you personally deem is important to bend the mists.
I think its possible, you just need a setting where doing necromancy doesn't also mean getting automatic donkey brains. For example from a DnD game we had to go through a country which was very necromantic in its bent, which meant a rather unique set up for a lot of things, for example a person kept contributing (in body at least) after death, so all farms were manned by several generations of skeletons, the currently living family in charge, and the ghosts of those who hadn't wanted to pass on completely yet still hanging around.
Like a lot of things they can be relative goods or evil albeit with greater potential for one than the other as long as touching them doesn't give you donkey brains.
I think I mentioned this a while a go, but WoW does tend to have a big thing be the more opposite to something you are, the stronger you become if you fall too that thing.
Sargarus for example, as you said is a titan, an embodiment of the arcane which is the Fel's opposite. Feels like he should explode, but instead taking the fel led to him single handily genociding his entire species. Fucking stupid.
That said...well the legion gets quite possibly literal dark matter generation to justify how it works given the amount of regular backstabbing that goes on.
Yeah. It is weird...
BfA was essentially "wot if we did the same ****ing thing, but even dumber" and Shadowlands was "oh yeah we basically yote the big bad of the universe out of it and killed the other big bad. Shit come up with a new big bad!"
Really really stupid.
And my god. It feels practically pointless to do so given how rarely they actually release games, but blizzard is boycotted for...well a long time.
Seeing Vark tinkering with those bombs I'm convinced this will be him in the future.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvg9rHP_2-Y
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvg9rHP_2-Y