NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

[Skippy]

Ahk, I'm so excited for the coming turns. Steinarr spar, Gabriel spar, playdates. And then the far future, where Sigurdr takes to the sea and the absolute fuckery that a journey to Miklagard requires. Seriously, just getting there is gonna be several arcs in of itself. 50 fucking miles of nonstop upstream rowing — vikings were built abnormal.

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MIKLAGARD ROAD TRIP ARC

But yeah, very excited for future updates, the last ones have been great and I'm excited to see where we go from here.

It's basically just replacing torches with glowing rocks, so it just happens

Uh, that sounds extremely suspect now that I think about it. It's not radioactive, I swear.

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Containment Mausoleum Built By Ancient Civilisation: Sits there looking ominous.

The Norse: "Hmmm, looks like a place of honour to me! I bet some great deeds are commemorated here!"

*digs inside and takes some of the cool glowy rocks*

The Norse Sometime Later: "Huh I'm coughing up blood again for some reason, oh well."

 

[Simon_Jester]

'Sadly,' stored radioactive waste typically doesn't glow of its own accord, but yeah.

 

[Shard]

I get the sense that Hooknails has some kind of comprehensive, semi-formal education in known Hugareida, including weird obscure ones that are only known to one person in a hundred. This raises several possibilities:

1) Being one of the personal men of this king he's loyal to means access to people who know this kind of thing (I wouldn't be surprised if skalds make it their business to learn an absurd number of different Hugareida and pick up stories of obscure ones like jackdaws).

2) Being one of the people the Enemy likes to push around the world like chessmen pushed around a board means he somehow gets this information from an exotic or unusual source.

3) People in this guy's weight class are in general quite likely to have this kind of comprehensive understanding of known Hugareida, and the relative handful of guys this strong that we know are either exceptions to the rule or just not sharing all their knowledge with us because we never asked or because they didn't feel like it was worth their time.

Halla is still very much learning as she goes, and given that even the rudiments of "how Norse cultivating world combat shenanigans work" were pretty much entirely unknown to her five years ago, even with Blackhand whispering in her ear she may not be able to match what people five or ten years her senior know about the subject.

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Mostly likely 1) and 3), really. I don't think 2) really applies, I doubt the Enemy cares about this one guy in particular. It can't afford to spend it's energies empowering just any Norseman, it has to work with what it has at hand.

From what I can tell, The Enemy actually has very low resources available, so it has to be really efficient with the assets it actually spends.

 

[Simon_Jester]

Mostly likely 1) and 3), really. I don't think 2) really applies, I doubt the Enemy cares about this one guy in particular. It can't afford to spend it's energies empowering just any Norseman, it has to work with what it has at hand.

From what I can tell, The Enemy actually has very low resources available, so it has to be really efficient with the assets it actually spends.

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True.

On the other hand, we know the Enemy can control what people hear, consistently enough that it's a major part of their overall containment strategy. For them, telling people things could be a relatively low-effort way to empower an asset.

And it can even be an investment. Because if you tell people things they can use on a regular basis ("Oh yeah, the weird whisper in my head warned me about this") then it predisposes them to take your advice later, which makes it much cheaper to use them as semi-independent agents.

 

[DeadmanwalkingXI]

Deadman, is there anything stopping us from asking multiple people about stuff to train each turn, like were asking Halfdan about things we can do with Atigir magic, and if so, are we able to poke Steinarr about some Sword magic things to do. Or did we do that already and I may have forgotten.

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There isn't, but there's also no point in doing that quite yet, at least short term, we've been told we need to get Sword Guard and Sword Strike (I presume to Refined) before we can get other Sword stuff. I figured we might as well not overload ourselves with information we flat-out can't use.

Could we also try to do the 'guide Orth through material thematically fitting to the trick (like Ashenkiss as material for KS) and see if it makes a difference' thing?
Seeresses being connected to wands is well sourced (for example: danisch nationalmuseums opinion on it), and this is a fitting experiment to see If that could be used in the fighting side of things.

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Sure, we know seidr tools are a thing and we can experiment with material mattering here, or try anyway. One moment. EDIT: And addeded.

We gots only 3 actions per turn to do such things with. But to some extent I think so?

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We can ask questions about, like, specific Hugareida or other training stuff as part of training without it taking an action. We've done that several times before.

I suggest that we just say we Shapeshift a Fast in our physical body and experiment there.

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I mean...we are experimenting with a Fast. We just only need one, not three, and have three Pockets we're not doing anything with, so we're freeing up one Fast by putting a Frenzy in those Pockets.

Additionally, we should test out first with non-damaging tricks (Folded Sickness Sear) and lower folds (2-Fold, then 3-Fold) in case it explodes in our face.

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This isn't new or weird territory, this is apparently standard Fast stuff. We're experimenting to see the details of how it works, not if it works. Precautions like this shouldn't be super necessary. I'll add something about being careful, but this is actually already a super well-trodden path, we just want to work out the timing and details. It's probably no more likely to explode than, like, standard Trick training.

EDIT: Added anyway, because it costs nothing to add.

Well, that's spicy. Might be safer to ask Sagaseeker to invest a point of Orthsirr in our Pocket, or invest Orthsirr in a Pocket using specifically Sagaseeker's Orthsirr. Metaphysically speaking for this to work Sagaseeker would need to have Aspects, and we would be weaving Sagaseeker's Aspects into our own Aspects which is very spicy stuff.

Best case: Armory Pocket that only works for Sagaseeker, Sagaseeker's Orthsirr is tied to us in unknown/unclear ways.

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Sagaseeker can't create its own Pockets, I don't think, unless we teach it to weave (well, to needlebind, specifically), which is a whole different project, and maybe not even then. And if it could those pockets would likely let it store other things, not itself. I dunno if this version will work, but it seems like it'd be the way to achieve the desired effect (ie: Sagaseeker using its own Orthstirr to upgrade a Pocket to an Armory Pocket).

 

[Shard]

True.

On the other hand, we know the Enemy can control what people hear, consistently enough that it's a major part of their overall containment strategy. For them, telling people things could be a relatively low-effort way to empower an asset.

And it can even be an investment. Because if you tell people things they can use on a regular basis ("Oh yeah, the weird whisper in my head warned me about this") then it predisposes them to take your advice later, which makes it much cheaper to use them as semi-independent agents.

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I'm not sure it can do that, actually. Prevent people from saying things, or even do a broad 'Nobody can tell Halla X' kind of effect, probably. It also hates everyone who uses Odr, not just proper Odr cultivators. Like, it's stake in this engagement would have been making it happen to get itself into a win-win situation where either Halla or Hooknails would die, both of which sounds like wins to it.

Sagaseeker can't create its own Pockets, I don't think, unless we teach it to weave, which is a whole different project, and maybe not even then. And if it could those pockets would likely let it store other things, not itself. I dunno if this version will work, but it seems like it'd be the way to achieve the desired effect (ie: Sagaseeker using its own Orthstirr to upgrade a Pocket to an Armory Pocket).

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I mean, my understanding is that this project will lead to exciting (TM) things, because Sagaseeker's Orthsirr isn't actually our own Orthsirr. Which means that if this is to work at all from a metaphysical perspective, Sagaseeker must NEVER leave the bounds of our body ever again or we would risk tearing apart that pocket where we put Sagaseeker's Orthsirr into or all sorts of !!FUN!! stuff.

Consider seriously what you're actually attempting here. A pocket is something we created by needlebinding two of our aspects together. An Armory pocket is us adding extra Orthsirr, i.e, an extra portion of our aspects, to that pocket to shape it to our liking. Adding Orthsirr that isn't ours is very much asking for Exciting things to happen, because we are (if successful), effectively, adding foreign aspects into our soulscape pockets.

And the benefit isn't really amazing, we save like 10 Orthsirr if it works?

Like if you can get assurance that this experiment will not lead to !!FUN!! things happening to us, sure, but as I see it, this is presently very unwise based on what we know.

 

[Toboe]

Sure, we know seidr tools are a thing and we can experiment with material mattering here, or try anyway. One moment. EDIT: And addeded.

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Also the part about thematically fitting material and the example of Ashenkiss as fitting material for a KS?

 

[DeadmanwalkingXI]

I mean, my understanding is that this project will lead to exciting (TM) things, because Sagaseeker's Orthsirr isn't actually our own Orthsirr. Which means that if this is to work at all from a metaphysical perspective, Sagaseeker must NEVER leave the bounds of our body ever again or we would risk tearing apart that pocket where we put Sagaseeker's Orthsirr into or all sorts of !!FUN!! stuff.

Consider seriously what you're actually attempting here. A pocket is something we created by needlebinding two of our aspects together. An Armory pocket is us adding extra Orthsirr, i.e, an extra portion of our aspects, to that pocket to shape it to our liking. Adding Orthsirr that isn't our is very much asking for Exciting things to happen, because we are (if successful), effectively, adding foreign aspects into our soulscape pockets.

And the benefit isn't really amazing, we save like 10 Orthsirr if it works?

Like if you can get assurance that this experiment will not lead to !!FUN!! things happening to us, sure, but as I see it, this is presently very unwise based on what we know.

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Other people's Orthstirr isn't, like, explosive (that's Odr, Odr is explosive). I think a fairly likely result of this experiment is it just flatly not working because you can't combine multiple people's Orthstirr like that (which seems plausible) but what explosive results are you actually envisioning here? We can put this off or not do it if people object, but I'm not sure exactly what you think is gonna happen here that's wildly exciting or dangerous. Given the assorted stuff we've done with Sagaseeker, letting it make a home in our soul seems very on-point thematically, and this would be how it makes that home its own, I'd think.

What do people think, is this too risky or what?

Also the part about thematically fitting material and the example of Ashenkiss as fitting material for a KS?

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Sure. Added.

 

[Toboe]

Sure. Added.

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Thanks.

[X] Plan Recovering From That Whole Thing

 

[KreenWarrior]

I wonder if Sagaseeker can learn to cultivate odr? 🤔. I suspect it doesn't have a Gate, but I think about the Christian falcons and horses. Food for thought.

 

[Simon_Jester]

I'm not sure it can do that, actually. Prevent people from saying things, or even do a broad 'Nobody can tell Halla X' kind of effect, probably. It also hates everyone who uses Odr, not just proper Odr cultivators. Like, it's stake in this engagement would have been making it happen to get itself into a win-win situation where either Halla or Hooknails would die, both of which sounds like wins to it.

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Just to make sure I understand, was Hooknails using Odr himself, or did he just know the signs of someone else using it?

 

[DeadmanwalkingXI]

I get the sense that Hooknails has some kind of comprehensive, semi-formal education in known Hugareida, including weird obscure ones that are only known to one person in a hundred.

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I do think he also has something actually supernatural going on. If it were just Hugareida, then he might not need that, but Punching Up doesn't actually look like anything...he identified it, accurately, based on the amount of Orthstirr spent alone? That stretches the bounds of plausibility a bit.

He's also obviously extensively educated so he can actually appropriately react to what he sees (likely for reasons #1 and #3), but I think he actually has a way (likely the aforementioned Cat Fylgja) to identify Hugareida, Seidr, Twists, and other magic stuff on sight.

Just to make sure I understand, was Hooknails using Odr himself, or did he just know the signs of someone else using it?

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The latter...in this battle. However, to know what Odr is, he'd need to have gone through the ordeals to learn seidr, and if he actually uses that, then he's an Odr user to some degree. Likely, he's a shapecrafter, given the context. So him being an Odr user is fairly likely, though by no means proven.

 

[Shard]

Just to make sure I understand, was Hooknails using Odr himself, or did he just know the signs of someone else using it?

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Well.. I don't think Hooknails was using Odr in the fight itself, although I strongly suspect he had tricks that would use Odr. But knowing about Odr already puts him in The Know, and thus on the Enemy's shitlist.

Other people's Orthstirr isn't, like, explosive (that's Odr, Odr is explosive). I think a fairly likely result of this experiment is it just flatly not working because you can't combine multiple people's Orthstirr like that (which seems plausible) but what explosive results are you actually envisioning here? We can put this off or not do it if people object, but I'm not sure exactly what you think is gonna happen here that's wildly exciting or dangerous. Given the assorted stuff we've done with Sagaseeker, letting it make a home in our soul seems very on-point thematically, and this would be how it makes that home its own, I'd think.

What do people think, is this too risky or what?

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The problem is that it is possible for the experiment to work in an undesirable way, and the net result is that we have effectively woven Orthsirr that isn't ours into our own Orthsirr which would have the potential for all kinds of attendant side effects! The successful experiment outcome here is that we've effectively spliced (part of) someone else's (Sagaseeker's) aspects into our own! That's really wild! We're talking soul surgery levels of wild here!

Like it immediately raises a lot of important questions. Normally to draw on Sagaseeker's Orthsirr, we have to be holding Sagaseeker. Now that we have partitioned Sagaseeker's aspects between itself and us, what happens if it leaves our grasp? Does it's Orthsirr/Woven Aspects try to return to it's body, potentially ripping apart the created Armory-Pocket or even ripping itself apart if it can't pull it's own Orthsirr out of the created armory pocket? Something else? There's all kinds of exciting possible outcomes from what is, in effect, weaving someone else's aspects into your own.

It could just work out fine. But... I think it's actually potentially very risky? This experiment brushes up on a lot of unknowns.

 

[DeadmanwalkingXI]

The problem is that it is possible for the experiment to work in an undesirable way, and the net result is that we have effectively woven Orthsirr that isn't ours into our own Orthsirr which would have the potential for all kinds of attendant side effects! The successful experiment outcome here is that we've effectively spliced (part of) someone else's (Sagaseeker's) aspects into our own! That's really wild! We're talking soul surgery levels of wild here!

Like it immediately raises a lot of important questions. Normally to draw on Sagaseeker's Orthsirr, we have to be holding Sagaseeker. Now that we have partitioned Sagaseeker's aspects between itself and us, what happens if it leaves our grasp? Does it's Orthsirr/Woven Aspects try to return to it's body, potentially ripping apart the created Armory-Pocket or even ripping itself apart if it can't pull it's own Orthsirr out of the created armory pocket? Something else? There's all kinds of exciting possible outcomes from what is, in effect, weaving someone else's aspects into your own.

It could just work out fine. But... I think it's actually potentially very risky? This experiment brushes up on a lot of unknowns.

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Well, firstly, this is an experiment, we're not gonna do this and then start tossing Sagaseeker around...we'd very carefully try to start putting it down after this and see if there was a pull indicating that was a bad idea. Invested Orthstirr is also easy to withdraw, so if there are weird consequences, we can just immediately undo it.

Like, all of these down sides sound like things that would come up during the experiment and would result in us just calling the whole thing off, not long term problems. I'll fiddle with the wording a bit to make that clearer, though.

 

[Simon_Jester]

I do think he also has something actually supernatural going on. If it were just Hugareida, then he might not need that, but Punching Up doesn't actually look like anything...he identified it, accurately, based on the amount of Orthstirr spent alone? That stretches the bounds of plausibility a bit.

He's also obviously extensively educated so he can actually appropriately react to what he sees (likely for reasons #1 and #3), but I think he actually has a way (likely the aforementioned Cat Fylgja) to identify Hugareida, Seidr, Twists, and other magic stuff on sight.

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That might very well explain everything most concisely. Certainly, being able to very quickly size up what opponents are capable of would be a powerful asset.

It would also make it relatively easy for him to find out that Odr is a thing, even if he can't talk or understand about it without going to the right people and putting in the effort.

 

[Wardragon]

so i got a question, why do you spread the training dice so much for small gains over using them in one area for larger gains

 

[uri]

Like, all of these down sides sound like things that would come up during the experiment and would result in us just calling the whole thing off, not long term problems.

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Unless we can't reverse something, which isn't that out there.

There isn't really any reason something like this should work and there are many things that can go wrong by trying.

Don't forget that research can kill us if we do something stupid.

The worst result here isn't "nothing happens" but damaging ourselves either reversibly or permanently if not outright killing our selves.

 

[DeadmanwalkingXI]

That might very well explain everything most concisely. Certainly, being able to very quickly size up what opponents are capable of would be a powerful asset.

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Oh definitely. It being a Fylgja thing is super interesting to me, actually, and makes me more interested in what some other Fylgja do. The Cat thing specifically might also explain the fishhook nails if he really identifies with it strongly...

It would also make it relatively easy for him to find out that Odr is a thing, even if he can't talk or understand about it without going to the right people and putting in the effort.

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Yeah. Cats are associated with Freya who is associated with seidr, the Fylgja version making seidr more likely would track.

so i got a question, why do you spread the training dice so much for small gains over using them in one area for larger gains

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Math. Due to the way dice work, if assigned in 1 die increments, they total 1 success each on average, if assigned in higher numbers, they total to about 2/3 of a success each.

Like, if you have 9 Training dice and assign them to 9 different things, you get 9 successes on average, if you put them all in one thing you get 6 on average. Some things we need to grow faster than 1 success per turn and thus need multiple dice, but for things that aren't too many successes and we can afford to take our time on, it's better to do one die at a time.

Unless we can't reverse something, which isn't that out there.

There isn't really any reason something like this should work and there are many things that can go wrong by trying.

Don't forget that research can kill us if we do something stupid.

The worst result here isn't "nothing happens" but damaging ourselves either reversibly or permanently if not outright killing our selves.

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I'm not convinced personally, but with multiple people objecting, I'll remove it for now.

Actually, @Imperial Fister is attempting to learn/understand more about the Atgeir just in general still a valid research topic? It's no longer listed after the bible, does that mean we're actually done, or just 'done enough'?

 

[Shard]

Well, firstly, this is an experiment, we're not gonna do this and then start tossing Sagaseeker around...we'd very carefully try to start putting it down after this and see if there was a pull indicating that was a bad idea. Invested Orthstirr is also easy to withdraw, so if there are weird consequences, we can just immediately undo it.

Like, all of these down sides sound like things that would come up during the experiment and would result in us just calling the whole thing off, not long term problems. I'll fiddle with the wording a bit to make that clearer, though.

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Okay, what do we actually get out of this if it works? Because... it's seriously just 10 Orthsirr????? I really do not want to take this risk. Just spend 10 Orthsirr -normally- for an Armory Pocket if we really need one! We do not need to take needless risks when the upside of those risks is a tiny amount of Orthsirr saved!

 

[CedeTheBees]

I doubt it'd be a serious issue tho? Worst case scenario, Sagaseeker is bound to us, but we can just keep it in its pocket if that happens.

 

[DeadmanwalkingXI]

Okay, what do we actually get out of this if it works? Because... it's seriously just 10 Orthsirr????? I really do not want to take this risk. Just spend 10 Orthsirr -normally- for an Armory Pocket if we really need one! We do not need to take needless risks when the upside of those risks is a tiny amount of Orthsirr saved!

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I've removed the topic for now. That said, it's more of a proof of concept.

If Sagaseeker can actually invest Orthstirr into stuff like that it can probably do so in other ways, and that opens up a variety of possibilities, and we could likely do the same with our armor as well, just for example...and once you're saving enough Orthstirr you're also saving 1 Odr gain per turn, which is pretty relevant. Really, experimenting with what Sagaseeker can actually do with its Orthstirr is a useful thing in and of itself, I think.

I doubt it'd be a serious issue tho? Worst case scenario, Sagaseeker is bound to us, but we can just keep it in its pocket if that happens.

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In fairness, if being disarmed is actually damaging to us or Sagaseeker we'd have a problem, but yeah, I'm skeptical there'd be too many issues. On the other hand, this appears contentious enough that it should be discussed more thoroughly before we actually include it in a plan, so I'm removing it for now.

 

[Shard]

I doubt it'd be a serious issue tho? Worst case scenario, Sagaseeker is bound to us, but we can just keep it in its pocket if that happens.

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'Potential side effects of splicing someone's aspects into our own' would, honestly, deserve entire paragraphs of risks. Like what happens if Sagaseeker is disarmed?

My estimation is that is probably (hopefully) wouldn't work, but it's just excessively risky, you know? A much safer idea would be to try and teach Sagaseeker tricks it could do with it's Orthsirr - Wavedancer has Tricks so it's not unthinkable - which would effectively add extra actions per turn if it's possible.

 

[DeadmanwalkingXI]

A much safer idea would be to try and teach Sagaseeker tricks it could do with it's Orthsirr - Wavedancer has Tricks so it's not unthinkable - which would effectively add extra actions per turn if it's possible.

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Sagaseeker doesn't have a dice pool, not one separate from our own, anyway, which makes it difficult for it to take extra actions. I'm not against trying to teach it Tricks, but we might want to have some Atgeir Tricks first, as those seem like they'd be the easiest to teach.

 

[I.F. Ister]

Actually, @Imperial Fister is attempting to learn/understand more about the Atgeir just in general still a valid research topic? It's no longer listed after the bible, does that mean we're actually done, or just 'done enough'?

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I didn't like how I handled it so I scrapped it and just gave you the hugareida.

As for the current topic of discussion, you've had other peoples aspects added to yours before. Not saying it would be the same

 

[Toboe]

As for the current topic of discussion, you've had other peoples aspects added to yours before. Not saying it would be the same

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The felag bond?
Had the idle idea of having Halla weave a part of one of her Aspects with a part of one of Abjorns Aspects (and if it goes well, maybe needlebind them), this hint makes it much more interesting.

Can we interact with other peoples Aspects?