Also, Sten has 25 dice for Weaponcrafting, what the actual fuck.

He probably gets to add his Forgefire (there has to be a Trick for that). He should anyway. If that's 8 of those dice (from Forgefire 4...Sten is a specialist), he only needs a Hugr + Weaponcraft of 15 total to get 17 dice, so, like Hugr 8, Weaponcraft 7 or vice versa. That seems plausible.
 
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He probably gets to add his Forgefire. He should anyway. If that's 8 of those dice (from Forgefire 4...Sten is a specialist), he only needs a Hugr + Weaponcraft of 15 total to get 7 dice, so, like Hugr 8, Weaponcraft 7 or vice versa. That seems plausible.

Oh right, forgot about that first die, yeah, that's pretty doable then.

Hugareida 4 really seems to be a major threshold where your power in that field starts increasing dramatically. Probably goes up to 9 in total, for a total of....

1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256

256 dice?

Presumably there's either some compacting going on at the bleeding edge or numbers get stupid once you reach the Steelfather+ tier.
 
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Oh right, forgot about that first die, yeah, that's pretty doable then.

I mean, without Forgefire giving a sizable bonus, 25 dice would still be ludicrous...Hugr 12 and Weaponcraft 11 would still be getting well into the realm silly numbers for a guy in his mid-20s.

Hugareida 4 really seems to be a major threshold where your power in that field starts increasing dramatically. Probably goes up to 9 in total, for a total of....

1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256

256 dice?

Presumably there's either some compacting going on at the bleeding edge or numbers get stupid once you reach the Steelfather+ tier.

I'm skeptical Hugareida actually goes that high. Like, we haven't run into caps yet but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Personally, I'd bet on it capping at level 5 or so. But yeah 4-5 for +8 or +16 dice is a lot even then.
 
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I mean, without Forgefire giving a sizable bonus, 25 dice would still be ludicrous...Hugr 12 and Weaponcraft 11 would still be getting well into the realm silly numbers for a guy in his mid-20s.

Yeah.

While it's nice that we can slow down on the Hamr Death march with our Pockets being to handle our Frenzy in the short term, we lose out on that with how much of a pain in the ass unravelling the excess is going to be.

Still, at least in the short term, we can risk raising our Hugr up a bit more. We can unbind probably 15 of those Pockets and still raise our Frenzy up to 3 safely, then once we have our Shapeshifting online, we can reassess what we need. That being said, they're probably good for more than just storing stuff, might interact with Seidr once we unlock that. Like pre-casting the spell and then storing it in a Pocket to whip out when we need it instead of have to chant it in a pinch.

Just with a quick bit of Math, but we'll need 25 successes to meet that goal. Having 9 Pockets to store 3 Frenzy in, and freeing up 150 Orthstirr in the process, split three ways (So +50 in each Aspect, which is matched by another +150 in our external pool)

Still pricy, still a nuisance, but it shouldn't take too long to get us back into fighting fit, and having a cushion of 3 Frenzy should let us profit from it in the long run. Certainly, it means Halla literally cannot be hurt by attackspam without either Offensive Reflexes on the part of her attacker or using Hone on every swing, which does add up a bit.
 
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Oh yeah, real quick question @Imperial Fister .

How's the Reforged Sagaseeker compare to some of Sten's other works? Wondrous tier gear cannot be something that's easily in reach.
Sten doesn't actually need a forge to work metal.

His knee is his anvil.

His fist is his hammer.

And his soul is his fire.

This means that, flat out, he can't go less then Fine quality. Even if the dice would say he does, he doesn't.

He, of course, is a much better smith then merely Fine.

Avow is Wondrous, because Sten refuses to ever make tier 9 steel.

His sword doesn't have a name because he just generates a new one when he needs it, same for his mail. Now, none of his constructs have a very long shelf life, but that doesn't matter a whole lot to him.
 
I think we should only god down to twelve pockets. That is expensive but we might find some use for them. Also, I think it might be possible to stockpile soul fruits using them?
 
Yeah.

While it's nice that we can slow down on the Hamr Death march with our Pockets being to handle our Frenzy in the short term, we lose out on that with how much of a pain in the ass unravelling the excess is going to be.

Still, at least in the short term, we can risk raising our Hugr up a bit more. We can unbind probably 15 of those Pockets and still raise our Frenzy up to 3 safely, then once we have our Shapeshifting online, we can reassess what we need. That being said, they're probably good for more than just storing stuff, might interact with Seidr once we unlock that. Like pre-casting the spell and then storing it in a Pocket to whip out when we need it instead of have to chant it in a pinch.

Frenzy stored with pockets costs us a total of 30 Orthstirr Pool, which is to say a total of 60 Orthstirr in practice. In exchange, if it's one Frenzy per three pockets, we get 2 Capacity we don't need (from the Infused Hugareida), +1 Endurance (kinda), and a +1 to combat actions. I'd rather have 60 dice (which is what 60 Orthstirr buys in combat) than +1 to combat actions by, well frankly by a lot.

If we can store more Frenzy in the same space it's worth it (and we should take Hugr Infusion 2 to test that, among other things), but it's just super not worth it in the long run if it's 60 Orthstirr per Frenzy. I think we still need Fasts and soon in that case. My current plan for next turn is to split the 20d6 I had for Hamr into 15d6 for unraveling pockets (with a note to keep, like, at least 10), and 5d6 for Hamr and continue the quest to raise Hamr and see if the option there is better. Plus getting Infused Hugr 2, of course.

If it turns our 2 Frenzy still fits in only 3 Pockets (and they aren't even full), then it's probably worth it and we can switch to Hugr (plus another turn or two of unraveling pockets).

I think we should only god down to twelve pockets. That is expensive but we might find some use for them. Also, I think it might be possible to stockpile soul fruits using them?

Right now our soul fruits are berries...they aren't hard to store in real life. But we definitely want to keep some pockets...how many depends on how many we need to store Frenzy and whether we're keeping that there permanently.
 
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Sten doesn't actually need a forge to work metal.

His knee is his anvil.

His fist is his hammer.

And his soul is his fire.

This means that, flat out, he can't go less then Fine quality. Even if the dice would say he does, he doesn't.

He, of course, is a much better smith then merely Fine.

Avow is Wondrous, because Sten refuses to ever make tier 9 steel.

His sword doesn't have a name because he just generates a new one when he needs it, same for his mail. Now, none of his constructs have a very long shelf life, but that doesn't matter a whole lot to him.

(Blinks)

Hoo boy, so you say he can do T9 if he feels like it, he just doesn't?

Or is T9 just Special in a lot of ways?

...

Come to think of it, what tier is the Puukko we gave to Sigurdr?

Frenzy stored with pockets costs us a total of 30 Orthstirr Pool, which is to say a total of 60 Orthstirr in practice. In exchange, if it's one Frenzy per three pockets, we get 2 Capacity we don't need (from the Infused Hugareida), +1 Endurance (kinda), and a +1 to combat actions. I'd rather have 60 dice than +1 to combat actions by, well frankly by a lot.

If we can store more Frenzy in the same space it's worth it (and we should take Hugr Infusion 2 to test that, among other things), but it's just super not worth it in the long run if it's 60 Orthstirr per Frenzy. I think we still need Fasts and soon in that case. My current plan for next turn is to split the 20d6 I had for Hamr into 15d6 for unraveling pockets (with a note to keep, like, at least 10), and 5d6 for Hamr and continue the quest to raise Hamr and see if the option there is better. Plus getting Infused Hugr 2, of course.

If it turns our 2 Frenzy still fits in only 3 Pockets (and they aren't even full), then it's probably worth it and we can switch to Hugr (plus another turn or two of unraveling pockets).

I never believed the Pockets are a good place to store Frenzy in, it's one of those 'Alternate Methods', but it's probably not a very good one in general. It's useful to us in that we have it now, but I imagine Fasts are just straight up the best places to put your Frenzy into, and Pockets are more for Spiritual Produce and possibly Seidr Spells.

It's just that we have access to this right now, and by all indications, things are starting to come to a head regarding the Horra Arc--and we're likely to have Actionable Intel from joining in on Toki's little revenge spree, especially if we can get examples of the Sun Weapons and Toki to testify that the ballistas are derived from dwarf-craft, and that sun-weapons are appearing in the Lurkalings hands--which we can attest are something Horra has the ability to manufacture. Further power we can get right now is probably better than hypothetical power we can acquire in the long run.

So yeah, what do you think about 10 dice to start unravelling with, then maybe 7 more on Hamr?
 
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By definition, 9

Practically, 1.

But the puukko is more than a mere tier 9.

Oh.

Oh.

I get it then, the Puukko is a T9 Growth Item right? Something made to the standards of a Tier 9, but that starts from the bottom and develops to be the Ideal Tool for its bonded user? So by the time it 'Levels up' to T9, it's far, far stronger than any 'Normal' T9 item?

Or at least, far more compatible than any 'Normal' T9.

Honestly, I kind of feel that T9 is just the beginning, it's the gateway to the actual Legend Forging nonsense, but if you can't get to the gate to begin with, of course you can't go beyond it.
 
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I never believed the Pockets are a good place to store Frenzy in, it's one of those 'Alternate Methods', but it's probably not a very good one in general. It's useful to us in that we have it now, but I imagine Fasts are just straight up the best places to put your Frenzy into, and Pockets are more for Spiritual Produce and possibly Seidr Spells.

It's just that we have access to this right now, and by all indications, things are starting to come to a head regarding the Horra Arc--and we're likely to have Actionable Intel from joining in on Toki's little revenge spree, especially if we can get examples of the Sun Weapons and Toki to testify that the ballistas are derived from dwarf-craft, and that sun-weapons are appearing in the Lurkalings hands--which we can attest are something Horra has the ability to manufacture.

Sure...and none of that means we should focus on Hugr over Hamr. The opposite, if anything. The advantages of high Hugr will take us several turns to acquire and then we'll need to spend more turns learning Tricks for our new Hugareida in order to actually benefit. The advantages of Hamr are much more immediate and at this point it isn't that many more successes away (29 vs. 21, less than a one Trick difference).

Like, back when that difference was nearly 40 successes, I would've argued for focusing on Hugr, but things have changed.
 
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I'm withholding judgement on the correct amount of pockets until we see how much Orthstirr we get form this fight. If it's a large amount I would rather just keep the pockets than spend training dice to unmake pockets we might want later. Frenzy isn't just +1 endurance, isn't it basically +1 endurance per turn per point if we got damaged?
 
I'm withholding judgement on the correct amount of pockets until we see how much Orthstirr we get form this fight. If it's a large amount I would rather just keep the pockets than spend training dice to unmake pockets we might want later.

Even if we want to keep all our Frenzy in pockets long term and it's 3 per Frenzy, that's 12 pockets at most and maybe a couple to spare for other stuff. We want to ditch at least 9 of the pockets no matter what, and that's 15 successes worth.

Frenzy isn't just +1 endurance, isn't it basically +1 endurance per turn per point if we got damaged?

Nah, it replenishes per fight. Which is better than Endurance if the fights are in close succession, but not this good.
 
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Sure...any none of that means we should focus on Hugr over Hamr. The opposite, if anything. The advantages of high Hugr will take us several turns to acquire and then we'll need to spend more turns learning Tricks for our new Hugareida in order to actually benefit. The advantages of Hamr are much more immediate and at this point it isn't that many more successes away (29 vs. 21, less than a one Trick difference).

Like, back when that difference was nearly 40 successes, I would've argued for focusing on Hugr, but things have changed.

I don't disagree, I still think we should keep pushing Hamr, but that getting our Orthstirr back is probably more important in the short-run.

But we can still Odr Infuse our Hugr even if we're not actively training it, because Frenzy 3 gives us another layer of ablative Endurance to cover for any armor breaches, and means that Halla can effectively 'Afford' to take 9 HP of damage a turn as long as she still has armor, because Frenzy recovers as long as she has a moment to breathe. We can keep it at 9 Pockets for the immediate future, and probably scale that down a bit more once we have our Fasts to take up the pressure.

But +3 on every roll in combat is also very good, when that includes Tactics as we've just seen. +3 in Tactics rolls? that's fucking amazing. It might also trigger for Perception checks and anything else when we're in combat--and +X is a much bigger deal outside of plain number clashes.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure Frenzy restores automatically any time there's a lull in the fight, similar rules to Reinforce-Shield I think?

Incidentally, do you want to change the timing of Reinforce-Shield to after we do the Rocket Jump but before they catch up?
 
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I don't disagree, I still think we should keep pushing Hamr, but that getting our Orthstirr back is probably more important in the short-run.

But we can still Odr Infuse our Hugr even if we're not actively training it, because Frenzy 3 gives us another layer of ablative Endurance to cover for any armor breaches, and means that Halla can effectively 'Afford' to take 9 HP of damage a turn as long as she still has armor, because Frenzy recovers as long as she has a moment to breathe.

But +3 on every roll in combat is also very good, when that includes Tactics as we've just seen. +3 in Tactics rolls? that's fucking amazing.

The tactics bonus I hadn't caught, and is indeed very good. +3 to all actual combat rolls is the equivalent of a little worse than an extra die each...this turn we're likely making somewhat less than 20 attacks and defenses and could get that effect for 20 orthstirr, and this is a high action number turn for us. Unless you envision lots of 10 round combats, the Orthstirr is probably better in terms of actual combat rolls.

The Endurance is good, but we can get more health for less by spending it on defensive tricks.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure Frenzy restores automatically any time there's a lull in the fight, similar rules to Reinforce-Shield I think?

That doesn't sound correct from what was previously said.

@Imperial Fister when does Frenzy refresh? Mid-combat? After every combat? What are we talking about here?

Incidentally, do you want to change the timing of Reinforce-Shield to after we do the Rocket Jump?

If we don't have time to do it before we do it after, like the Kindle Spinner. I'll clarify, I suppose.
 
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More Information is always good though, and getting +3 automatic successes on every Tactics check at a minimum is stupidly helpful.
 
More Information is always good though, and getting +3 automatic successes on every Tactics check at a minimum is stupidly helpful.

Sure, but is it having 180 less Orthstirr kind of helpful? Or, counting the other benefits for half that, 90 Orthstirr worth of helpful? I'm gonna say no. We have one point of Hugr Infusion, and we need another for testing, but I think if it's actually 3 Pockets per Frenzy we should hold off on getting the third until we know how Fasts work.
 
Sure, but is it having 180 less Orthstirr kind of helpful? I'm gonna say no. We have one point of Hugr Infusion, and we need another for testing, but I think if it's actually 3 Pockets per Frenzy we should hold off on getting the third until we know how Fasts work.

Mmm.

Okay, yeah, that's fair I guess.

Still, we've got a Lot of tedious unbinding to do. But at least Hamr isn't too far away from levelling up anymore.

Does our high Housecraft skill help with this process at all @Imperial Fister ? Or is it having High Housecraft score that lets us do it at all?
 
Btw, if we ever get enough berries for it to make sense, I'd like to try making alcohol from the stuff. Probably the closest Norse will get to Chinese pills/elixirs. Even now we could probably try adding a couple to a batch of mead. Or if we get a hive in our soul, we could see if bees making honey from spirit plants makes a good mead ingredient. 🤔
 
Mmm.

Okay, yeah, that's fair I guess.

Still, we've got a Lot of tedious unbinding to do. But at least Hamr isn't too far away from levelling up anymore.

15d6 for the next couple of turns likely gets us down about half the pockets, which is about what we want in the short term. That's, y'know, a 30d6 waste in some ways, and likely delays the Hamr up by a couple of turns, but it's workable.

Does our high Housecraft skill help with this process at all @Imperial Fister ? Or is it having High Housecraft score that lets us do it at all?

It would be nice if it helped, but I'm not seeing any math that makes that make sense. I guess we'll find out when our Housecraft rises to 5 next turn? If that makes it easier somehow or us undo more orthstirr per success or something we'll know it matters.
 
15d6 for the next couple of turns likely gets us down about half the pockets, which is about what we want in the short term. That's, y'know, a 30d6 waste in some ways, and likely delays the Hamr up by a couple of turns, but it's workable.



It would be nice if it helped, but I'm not seeing any math that makes that make sense. I guess we'll find out when our Housecraft rises to 5 next turn? If that makes it easier somehow or us undo more orthstirr per success or something we'll know it matters.

30 Successes total then to hit our goal, yeah, 15d6 over two turns should do it in time for the Thing, and frees up most of our Orthstirr for free use again.

We did learn something else though, aside from "Aspects shouldn't be treated as All-Or-Nothing". Namely, that the Communal Pool is matching the Aspected Pool, and not the other way around. The auto-adjustment is something your Orthstirr sorts out itself on its own.
 
@Imperial Fister when does Frenzy refresh? Mid-combat? After every combat? What are we talking about here?
It functions similarly to Focus in that it resets at the start of the next round but it can be staved off by your opponent keeping up the pressure.
Does our high Housecraft skill help with this process at all @Imperial Fister ? Or is it having High Housecraft score that lets us do it at all?
Neither, though Clothmaking does allow you to do this at all.
 
It functions similarly to Focus in that it resets at the start of the next round but it can be staved off by your opponent keeping up the pressure.

Huh, which is pretty good because Halla has a lot of options to do a pressure reset in a serious fight.

Nice to see that Utility Tricks have important applications in Cultivation too! I wonder if there's some Farming Tricks that might help us out there.

BTW, did our Odr gain get resolved before or after our Aspects got locked up? Like, has our income dropped after this or is it being treated like we haven't actually committed a big chunk of our pool?

Also, on that note, which part of this was the Enemy's Trap? Just the general societal assumption that Aspects are All or Nothing?
 
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30 Successes total then to hit our goal, yeah, 15d6 over two turns should do it in time for the Thing, and frees up most of our Orthstirr for free use again.

We did learn something else though, aside from "Aspects shouldn't be treated as All-Or-Nothing". Namely, that the Communal Pool is matching the Aspected Pool, and not the other way around. The auto-adjustment is something your Orthstirr sorts out itself on its own.

Indeed. The Pockets themselves are also useful information. We will never get rid of all of them, and having a few will never stop being useful. The 'doing them all at once thing' is super annoying, but in the long run we did need that and won't regret having them. The temptation to walk around with Sagaseeker in one and thus never out of reach is rising in me, for example.

It functions similarly to Focus in that it resets at the start of the next round but it can be staved off by your opponent keeping up the pressure.

Okay, fair enough. Better than I was thinking...I still think 2 is enough until we figure out a more economical storage method (which might just be figuring our you can store more than one point in the 3 Pocket pseudo-Fast).

Also, on that note, which part of this was the Enemy's Trap? Just the general societal assumption that Aspects are All or Nothing?

That's my interpretation, yeah. Well, more the enemy making them behave in an all or nothing fashion. Like, I suspect that, without the Enemy, even if you were thinking about it wrong you wouldn't pour all of them in like this.

Like, I suspect even if we teach our kids not to think of the Aspects like that, this might be automated by the enemy and the first time they do it it will automatically do the whole 'burn 2/3 of your pool' thing.
 
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