I am curious to figure out the point where other Norsemen can tell that we're doing something... different than the rest of them. I mean, Aki's "magesight" is able to see that we're doing something strange with our cultivation, but for most Norsemen, all they would see are our Tricks and how much oomph we can put behind them. What would Halla have to do to go from being viewed as "having higher than average stats and Orthstirr for her age" to "wait, she REALLY shouldn't be able to do that"?

I halfway wonder if us having all three Aspects stoked and then channelling Odr is going to trigger some new visual effect, but we'll see.

Actually, just in case of that, @DeadmanwalkingXI , could you specify in the Tactics that we aren't to stoke Saemd until we use IAT?
 
What about all the factors beneath abstraction in the system, like the part where weapons extend your reach by a Lot, and make it much easier to hit things because the counter-force is going into the weapon, instead of you?

Technically weapons do provide significant bonus dice as well, but that's not anything that can't be overcome with enough training. This is a Cultivation setting after all, not a realistic one.

It's more that Odr means you can stack a gigantic Hamr score and then double your health, letting you risk going full Monk without sacrificing too much defense.

Sacrificing a shield is actually a really big thing to give up mechanically. We did it early, but we also cheat by having a magical replacement. This helps make it viable, certainly, but you're still giving up a lot.

It makes up low damage with really fast damage output. If you can then improve base damage output with shapeshifting.. and then see if you can get some movement tricks. Like a more refined version of Sidestep, you know like the fancy footwork that happens in Wuxias all the time where they say 'snow blossom steps' or 'falling petals dance' or 'windswept whatever'. Which you would need since IRL having a good stance and using your feet has a massive impact on the force of your punches. Remember that time when someone trained their force of their body into single punch so punch it killed on impact?

Could also get gauntlets as well. Or weapon gloves.

I'm skeptical it's enough quicker than, like, saxes to make up for the lower damage. Gauntlets would be a valid alternative, though, and solve most of the issues if we could get them. Gauntlets, however, at least metal ones, are part of the same tech as plate armor which almost nobody has at this point. So we'd need to invent them.

I halfway wonder if us having all three Aspects stoked and then channelling Odr is going to trigger some new visual effect, but we'll see.

Actually, just in case of that, @DeadmanwalkingXI , could you specify in the Tactics that we aren't to stoke Saemd until we use IAT?

Sure. Done.
 
What about all the factors beneath abstraction in the system, like the part where weapons extend your reach by a Lot, and make it much easier to hit things because the counter-force is going into the weapon, instead of you?
The person with the higher reach gets to attack first. Not super relevant all the time, as Halla has an atgeir, the king of all weapons, but it is something to think about.

Height does apply to this.
 
The person with the higher reach gets to attack first. Not super relevant all the time, as Halla has an atgeir, the king of all weapons, but it is something to think about.

Height does apply to this.

Good to know. That seems very relevant to our battle planning going forward (and means the Captain attacks first in this combat round, which changes nothing as our plan was based on that anyway).

That feels like it just leads around to the 'armed combat is still more viable than unarmed combat, now for just slightly less reasons'.

I mean, depends whether the other cultivation style has something to compensate. Armed combat is a lot more viable for Norsemen...a cultivation style where it is not is entirely possible, though, the incentives would just need to be very different (one where the Hone equivalent only worked unarmed would heavily incentivize it, for example).
 
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Good to know. That seems very relevant to our battle planning going forward (and means the Captain attacks first in this combat round, which changes nothing as our plan was based on that anyway).



I mean, depends whether the other cultivation style has something to compensate. Armed combat is a lot more viable for Norsemen...a cultivation style where it is not is entirely possible, though, the incentives would just need to be very different.
One incentive could just be that your weapons break because you aren't using Steel. And past a certain point you can make your body really strong.

Like Trolls.
 
One incentive could just be that your weapons break because you aren't using Steel. And past a certain point you can make your body really strong.

Like Trolls.

Norsemen don't have that issue (probably partly due to using orthstirr to be superhuman crafters and partly due to their Tricks mostly involving coating weapons in orthstirr), but another style could in theory have this problem, it's true.
 
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@Imperial Fister

1) Could we have a mechanics post on the effects of armor and weapons? Like a Good Gamebeson is 8 Armor HP, for example.
2) Could we have a post on 'Odr as far as you know'? It can be incomplete and filled up as we figure out it's mechanics. (Or put them in the Mechanics Post, that works too.)
3) In line with 2), maybe we could have a post on 'Ongoing Research and Research Results'? It would help a lot in organization.

(Or maybe a nice player could setup and maintain these lists, that would also work)

Also I could be wrong, but if armor is reset then won't Knee-Groin trick whiff? 4 Damage won't break through Armor threshold 6.

Also a thought with Armor, could we use Reinforce-Shield to layer some RS-layers over armor as well as underneath Armor? That way it would take at least 3 Trick attacks to breach through the combined layers (RS Layer over Armor, Armor Pen, RS Layer under Armor)
 
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1) Could we have a mechanics post on the effects of armor and weapons? Like a Good Gamebeson is 8 Armor HP, for example.
Sure! I'll get on that tomorrow. I'll add it to the crafting tiers infopost as that makes sense to me.
(Or maybe a nice player could setup and maintain these lists, that would also work)
I would prefer that it was done like this and there are reward dice in it for whoever goes through with it.

However, if nobody does/nobody wants to, I'll handle it.
 
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I can take a stab at the Odr Post, though I'm tired and kinda sick so it'll probably be sometime tomorrow-ish...for Research details someone else will definitely need to do that one.
 
It's possible that something like KGT could slip through the mail... or rather, under. Slipping up underneath mail was a thing that happened, killed a couple kings at that.

However, you'd have to do some funky things to pull that one off on an Ironbrother-tier enemy. I'm talking already having nailed him with something with a stunning effect like Palm Crush or KGT in order to do something like that.
 
Odr Mechanics Post, Courtesy of DeadmanwalkingXI
Odr Mechanics Info Post:

The power source of what we're calling Saga Cultivation, the real form of Cultivation the Norse are currently stuck at the edges of. Named for the word/god of poetry and madness, it's the Norse equivalent of the Christians Zeal or similar 'better than the normal version' power sources for other Cultivation systems. It's sort of 'concentrated Orthstirr' in practice, but probably a lot more metaphysically significant than that.

Reaching the Saga Establishment Stage of the First Realm was done by accumulating 9 Odr, and means we now have an Odr pool, which does not seem to have a hard cap. The Second Stage of the First Realm is Saga Expansion, and is reached when that pool hits 81 (and it is ideal for several other things to be done first so our soulscape and foundation are solid and well-designed...specifically, one needs a House, Fields, and a Fence), so there is a bit of a soft cap. When Saga Expansion is reached, the soulscape expands dramatically, probably gaining rich lands in proportion with the Fields, a central mountain in proportion with the House, and defensive terrain in proportion with the Fence.

Odr is accumulated once per turn, and seems to accumulate at 1/9 the size of our lowest Aspect if cultivated on your own land but outside a fenced area (so someone with an Orthstirr of 81 would have Aspects of 27 and gain 3 Odr per turn). If cultivated within a fenced area on your land, you instead gain only a single point. What happens if you cultivate on land you don't own is unclear, but it's probably not good (failing to work at all and explosions are the two most likely results). Normally this is done by weaving the three Aspects together, Odr income can be tripled by needlebinding them instead but doing that has severe problems due to the Odr flow just not stopping without active effort (we died the one time we tried it, though there were intervening factors).

Gaining Odr precludes dabbling in other cultivation systems and gaining their internal resources (ie: Zeal for Christians), something otherwise possible for those only using the Orthstirr-based 'overlay', as only one internal resource (like Odr) is possible in a single cultivator. In practice this likely makes acquiring any of their unique tricks somewhere between impractical and impossible.

Here are the things we know we can do with Odr:

-Power anything that costs Orthstirr, used this way 1 Odr is equal to up to 5 Orthstirr (any excess beyond the base cost is lost). We should almost never do this (basically only if it's a choice between this and death for either us or someone we care for).
-Enhance the effects of Tricks (this ups damage by 1 per Odr spent for damage-dealing Tricks). When used this way the maximum amount of Odr that can be spent on one Trick is equal to the governing Skill/Hugareida.
-Nourish magical plants in our soul realm. Both plants we've tried this with started bearing useful things at 3 Odr, then improved significantly at 9 Odr (total), and then improve a third time at 18 Odr (total) and seems to continue providing such things in an ongoing way without more Odr. They also provide a seed at 18 Odr and may be able to provide more with further investment.
-When growing mundane crops in our soulscape, they must be watered with Odr. For this purpose 3 Odr gets us a number of Food equal to the Quality of the field (ie: 3 Food if the Fields are Good).
-Infuse our Attributes (Hamr, Hugr, and Fylgja). This increases the base dice pool of the stat by 1, but decreases how much Orthstirr you can spend to increases it, effectively amounting to a 'permanent Orthstirr investment'. The cost to do this escalates, in the same way as the successes needed when Training a skill or attribute (so the first point of Invested Hamr is 1 Odr, the second is 2 Odr, the third is 4, the fourth is 8, and so on). Doing this with different attributes has different additional effects:
--Hamr also gives +1 permanent Endurance per level and +1 shapeshifting slot at levels 3 and 6 and every level thereafter.
--Hugr also grants +1 Capacity per level, and one alloy slot at levels 3 and 6 and every level thereafter, but additionally unlocks Frenzy (which is a pool equal to how much Infused Hugr you possess) and makes you a berserk. Frenzy adds +1 per level to all combat roll totals (as well as rolls involving analysis and creativity of you focus on them completely), and serves as prosthetic extra Endurance as well (before Endurance but after Armor, replenishing when you have a moment to catch your breath), and has deleterious mental effects involving imagining ways to kill everyone you meet unless stored in fasts, which are created with either shapeshifting or shapecrafting (at a rate of 3 Fasts per shapeshifting slot, each Fast storing one point of Frenzy). We have recently found an alternative storage method for Frenzy in 'pockets' of weaved Frami and Saemd but it seems super inefficient (3 Pockets, which is to say 30 committed Orthstirr per 1 Frenzy stored). Frenzy can also be granted by shapecrafters, though it is unclear exactly how.
--Fylgja also gives +1 Fylgja Endurance and +1 Fylgja Capacity per level, and both +1 Standing Order and +1 shapeshifting/alloy slot (can be used for either) to the Fylgja itself at levels 3 and 6 and every level thereafter.
-We can similarly infuse Skills (for the same cost), and infusing Wordplay likewise increases Capacity (and infusing most skills increases the number of Tricks that can be associated with them), but otherwise we've seen no 'additional effects' as of yet...except on Composure which gives one 'Calm Charge' per Infused level, which may be each be spent to counter all failures on a single Composure roll (or to refresh an Aspect) and refresh yearly. References have been made that doing this with crafting skills may be dangerous, with hints about trances and dehydration, but we have level 1-2 infusion in a couple of crafting skills without having experiences this, so it's likely only at higher levels of Infusion.
-Spending points of Odr on skill rolls can add 1 success or cancel one rolled failure per point if you don't spend them for something else. There is no cap to this.
-If we invest Odr into objects when crafting them this awakens their spirit giving them their own Orthstirr pool. Spending more Odr on this may increase the size of the pool or provide other benefits, though exactly what is unclear. Apparently items need to be made at the maximum possible Quality level to have fully realized intelligent spirits, which may or may not require Odr for us to achieve.
-Investing Odr into Inspiration-poetry seems to grant additional bonuses beyond the Orthstirr the poem would normally grant (+1 to progression on a Trait on the one poem we've done this with for ourselves).
-It has been hinted that investing Odr into Twists (rather than using it instead of Orthstirr to power them) allows for us to actually invent new Twists, but exactly how that works is unclear.
-Can be painted onto Runes. This is only useful for instant effects as it only lasts a moment but it supercharges such effects to a very high level.

If we try and tell anyone the secrets of Odr Cultivation, the Enemy will send things to kill us and everyone in the vicinity. These creatures are enumerated here and are based on total levels of Infusion while the area they are attracted from is based on the Realm we have achieved.
 
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Sweet. I have no idea which of those is more appropriate, and it likely depends on how many new discoveries we make, though I obviously prefer the more frequent one for entirely selfish reasons.
Hmm, I think I'm gonna give you a tentative yearly. If things pick up the pace and you find yourself doing a lot of edits back here, then I'll revisit it.

If someone's gonna be doing work, I want to compensate them fairly.
 
It's possible that something like KGT could slip through the mail... or rather, under. Slipping up underneath mail was a thing that happened, killed a couple kings at that.

However, you'd have to do some funky things to pull that one off on an Ironbrother-tier enemy. I'm talking already having nailed him with something with a stunning effect like Palm Crush or KGT in order to do something like that.

Does the current plan freezing him with IAT qualify? It seems like it potentially would, but best to be sure.

Hmm, I think I'm gonna give you a tentative yearly. If things pick up the pace and you find yourself doing a lot of edits back here, then I'll revisit it.

If someone's gonna be doing work, I want to compensate them fairly.

Cool. That works. It would expire at Yule like other yearly stuff if not used, yeah?
 
Odr Lore Post, Courtesy of Alectai
ODR

Poetic Madness, Divine Inspiration, these are all viable terms for this form of Refined Power. Generated--as far as we know--by the confluence of Frami, Virthing, and Saemd within a human soul, this is the "True Qi" of the Norse Paradigm, separate from--but not entirely distinct from--Orthstirr.

Might also have a connection to Odic Force , but our studies in Odr are still in their infancy and we've barely managed to scratch the surface of this frontier--the True Cultivation of Halla's paradigm, and widely feared by our currently unknown and unnamed Adversary.

To first tap Odr, a Norse Cultivator must simultaneously ignite all three Aspects while their Orthstirr is full, opening up a Gate at the edge of their Soul Space through which Odr flows. This is dangerous, as the first time one taps Odr places the cultivator in an unconscious state. Should all of one's Aspects be exhausted while the Gate remains open, You will risk True Death, it is of Critical Importance that the first time one Opens the Gate be with friends and allies, who can draw you out of that unconscious state while your Aspects remain. Subsequent openings are less risky, as one's Soul gains a tolerance for the shock. It has since been discovered that Odr Generation is slower and smoother when done within a place tamed by civilization, such as the confines of a farm. There is a High Probability that drawing Odr is much safer in those conditions, and this is the ideal state in which to initiate someone into its mysteries.

Presumably, there are many Traps and Alarms riddled throughout the Norse System, as for a presently unknown reason, The Adversary greatly fears its potential, and has hobbled it at every turn. All Major Steps therefore must be treated as though you Court Death, don't attempt any cutting edge research in this field unless we have an Heir prepared!

Once Odr is drawn into the Soul, it brings it to life, creating a Well through which the Odr is stored.

NOTE: Odr and adjacent topics are Forbidden to anyone who have not Opened the Gate themselves. Those who can observe it will lose their memory of the experience, and speaking on the matter will draw the Enemy's Attention. Make sure all preparations are complete and an ideal battleground chosen before initiating others!

BASE APPLICATIONS:
--Odr can be used as a substitute for Orthstirr, at a roughly 1-5 Ratio (One Mote of Odr generates 5 Orthstirr)
--Odr can also be used to empower Tricks above and beyond their normal limitations. Once the cost is paid in Orthstirr, 1 Odr can be further invested per rank in the Skill or Hugareida. We know that this increases the Damage of Tricks by 1 per Odr infused, we do not currently know what happens if this is used for Twists, presumably this has an interesting effect.
--Odr is deeply involved with Seidr, as the Craft involves directing the tide of Odr into a desired shape to create all manner of useful effects.

THE FIRST REALM: SAGA ESTABLISHMENT:
--This Realm is achieved when a Norse Cultivator first accumulates 9 Odr within their Well. At this point, you can be noticed by The Enemy, be wary!
--Odr can be used to Invest in Attributes, at the same cost per point as XP is required to train them. Doing so increases the floor of what can be done without Orthstirr, as well as other benefits. At present, we know that Invested Hamr is worth twice the Endurance as the standard kind, It has later been discovered that Infusing Odr into one's Hugr increases the Hugr Capacity--but more importantly, it turns a Cultivator into a Berserk, who can gain a powerful combat state known as Frenzy--which provides a regenerating Endurance track and a combat buff, similar to the Focus of Christian Cultivators, though we have been warned that there are differences, notably, the first time we Infused Hugr sent Halla into a killing frenzy, and she needed to be subdued by others, whether this is inherent in the Norse system or a trick of the Enemy is not yet clear. Infusing into Fylgja doesn't seem to have such an extreme consequence, though it raises the Fylgja's endurance and Capacity both. We have confirmed that Odr can be Infused into Skills, but have not identified any discernable differences beyond the increased floor and increased Trick Capacity outside of ones like Wordplay, which increases Hugr Capacity as well. This isn't to say those differences don't exist, but they're not readily apparent at our level.
--Various forms of Flora can be drawn into the Soul Space, and then raised using Odr as food and drink alike. Such evolved plants generate Produce once per year, which serve as useful consumables that would be difficult to achieve otherwise. Do note, that Produce cannot be stacked up over time, if you gather it, it will regrow at the turning of the year. If you don't, it will remain ready to use until you do. There are implications that filling the Soul Space with Life is a key aspect of advancing in Saga Establishment, though the details are still unknown.
--We have established the rough requirements to be able to advance beyond Saga Establishment through deduction and the use of the occasional Hint, and confirmed the broad shape of the matter. Utilizing the principles of "As Without, So Within", a farm estate must be constructed, capable of fostering the development of life. This requires Food, Water, Shelter, and Safety. Or, more relevant to us--it requires a Fence to keep pests and disease out, the fields must be cleared and tended (Beyond simply generating Produce it seems), a place of shelter must be constructed, and sufficient Odr must be gathered to overflow the Well and trigger the next stage. In other words, you have to literally build a farm. All Norse are Cultivators indeed.
 
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Does the current plan freezing him with IAT qualify? It seems like it potentially would, but best to be sure.
Yes, though I would keep in mind that the stun isn't going to last as long on the Captain as it would on a weaker dude. Higher pain tolerance.
EDIT: Curses! I thought you were going to let me have this Deadman :(
While Deadman beat you to to the replenishing one, I'll toss you a reward dice regardless.
 
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