Mmm, in that case we could wait till after birth and try it for our Vengeance Quest, was thinking the childbirth would be a good smokescreen.
NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)
- Thread starter I.F. Ister
- Start date
- Original Fantasy Action
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- Tags
- norse mythology (mythology) original xianxia cultivation western cultivation ask sirihand did your mother tell you anything? discussion pleases yggdrasil farming gloating gets people killed granary management hubris is a coward's word you will die norsemen do not die when they are killed the qm has a bad memory the qm is bad at math viking courtroom drama (legal drama) vikings open voting
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
That's this turn, right? Pre-Yule?
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
- Pronouns
- He/They
Winter/Turn 2 <Last turn
Inter-Turn Voting Period <You are here
Winter/Turn 3 <Murderkittens and Yule vote
Summer/Turn 1 <Yule vote is resolved here (technically it happens in between Winter/Turn 3 and Summer/Turn 1, but whatever)
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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- He/They
Yes, and also you can now teach people things that you know... save for hugareida and the like.
Not how Zeal works, by the way.
It's more the specific act he was doing, which isn't something that can be done in battle.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Ah, interesting.
Huh, we can't even teach Hugareida that we share? We should be able to teach Campfire at least, right?
Did we ever find out what Drifa's Hugareida was BTW? I feel like it's probably Ignition just because I feel the Muna she got was from when she watched us fight that Nisse and our big setpiece thing was setting up a big explosion, but...
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I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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- He/They
You can if you share it.
And you never did find out what Drifa's is.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Neat. It's not Ignition, I think you said that there's a resonance if people share a Hugareida (Certainly, you said we'd identify it on the spot if we ever met someone who also had Standstill). It is Fire based though, and I don't think it's Forgefire.
Might actually be Wildfire? That's also on the list of "Entry level Fire Hugareida" and she did seem to have a bit of sustain on it.
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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No such thing (save for Ilmarinen's, but that's different on a fundamental level)
You could unlock Firestorm before Wildfire or Ignition. You could unlock Forgefire without ever having learned Campfire.
That is how I die. This kills the Imp.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Huh, how weird.
Alloying then, I guess it lets you initiate into a new Hugareida without needing a Muna for it?
Is it possible to Alloy an Alloy? Or do you have to develop a Muna for that Alloy first to do so?
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Sorry! Not at all my intention. >.<
Incidentally, is there like, a breakpoint for where after enough training dice the 'Max Success doubles the result' comes into play?
Will there be ways to alter the training dice results, in the sense of like, making 2s or even 1s give 0 Successes instead of 1 failure, for example, as right now training dice are equivalent to d3 of (-1,+1,+2). Being able to change that to say (0,+1,+2) would be great.
I think the way Alloying works, at least for Hugareida in the 'same' family, is thay you're altering the 'Intensity' of the Hugareida.
So something like:
Sky Forge Fire - Max Intensity (Divine, Hot, Creation, Etc)
(Other Fire Hugareida we don't know about, trending from nature to divine)
Ignition - Average (The spark of fire itself)
Firestorm - Fourth Lowest (Fire/Nature, Spread, Power)
Wildfire - Third Lowest (Nature, Spread, etc)
Forgefire - Second Lowest (Civilization, Creation, etc)
Campire - Lowest Intensity (Civilization, Warmth, etc)
Forgefire is like (Campire x4, Ignition x1) to average out. Wildfire is like (Ignition x3, Campfire x2), and so forth. You can probably do it in ways other than just the ratios, too, but at our level of having like 3 Hugareidas altering the ratios is probably the way forward.
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I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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- He/They
Also doesn't require Capacity
Yes!
No worries, I was joking around. I am struggling with keeping up with training stuff, though, which is why things are taking longer than they used to.
I typically consider 6 dice to be the breakpoint. At that point, the odds are unlikely enough that I'm okay with doubling it.
Probably not.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Hah! Great!
I guess the limitation there then is that you only get 1 Alloy per Hugr above 6? Which prevents people from having one or two and daisy chaining their way to an entire School in one go.
That being said, you don't need to do a big report on Training anyway. Or you can just discourage us from doing that whole "One die on virtually everything" thing if that's being logistically problematic, maybe by incentivizing focusing on a smaller number of projects instead of the Best Plan being one die in as many things as possible? Like X number of Automatic Successes for every multiple of 3 dice you're spending on a project or something? That should narrow the Training results simply by encouraging focus instead of a wide net, which is the current Mathematically Optimal route to maximizing Gainz even if it causes a logistical logjam.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Currently the issue with training dice is that we're incentivized to spend 1d because that has the best returns on training dice, even though it's logistically annoying.
I can anydice the incentives needed to change this if you'd like?
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We have a whole lot more animals to sacrifice next turn (since that's when the young ones come of age), but I'm certainly willing to give this a shot at around that point. We're giving away a bunch of them as Yule gifts (I currently have 24 Silver in animals earmarked for Halfdan and almost 40 for Aki among other things since we owe him more...I have similar value in gifts earmarked for Stigr as Halfdan as well, just not in livestock), but that actually still leaves a fair number that we can sacrifice.
@Imperial Fister what determines how valuable an animal sacifice is to the Gods, just monetary value or Quality (ie: Basic, Decent, Good, Fine, etc.) or what? And can we keep the meat from animal sacrifices? The Norse did exactly that historically, but it makes the price of sacrificing things a lot lower so it'd make sense if we couldn't do that here.
And on a completely separate note, what happens when we get overflow successes on Campfire? That's a decently likely event, after all (6/9 chance, to be specific)...are extra successes just wasted or could we apply them to a Campfire Trick? If the latter I'll specify one and add it to the vote.
There are definitely ways you could decrease the work here if you want. Like, the simplest that leaps to mind is that you could say that, for ease of use, all things assigned 1d6 just automatically get 1 success (plus bonus on Craft stuff from Sten or similar things)...that'd obviously reduce variance which is a minor improvement for us (since we could then predict things better), but it'd be mathematically equal and vastly reduce your need to roll dice. More than 1d6 would still be rolled, as would Reward Dice, but that'd drop the needed dice rolled this turn from 33 dice in 24 rolls to 15 dice in only 6 rolls (you'd roll for our Fire Hugareida training, Tracking, and the Reward Die I put in Cut...this would slightly disincentivize using Reward Dice like this in future as well...most turns would involve 4-6 rolls at most, I think, less if you replaced Blackhand's benefit on Fire Hugareida with some equivalent when the Hugareida is assigned only 1 die).
Some sort of incentive to roll more than 1d6 per skill more often would also work, though that's harder to balance or feels bad for us if the incentive is negative.
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Ryumancer
Dragons Are Romance
Clearly, he was Taking 20 on his Disarm Traps skill check
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Here's my anydice program on training dice, at any rate: AnyDice
1d : 1
2d: 1.78
3d: 2.33
4d: 2.94
5d: 3.58
6d: 4.2 (and the 0.14% chance of critting)
7d: 4.84
8d: 5.48
9d: 6.12
10d: 6.77
As far as odds go, 1 extra success every 3 dice after the first would make it roughly on par with 1 dice. I think. (So on the 4th/7th/10th.. etc dice)
(Each dice eventually hits an average return of 0.666 as number of dice increases to arbitrary values.)
edit: Extended the progression.
1d : 1
2d: 1.78
3d: 2.33
4d: 2.94
5d: 3.58
6d: 4.2 (and the 0.14% chance of critting)
7d: 4.84
8d: 5.48
9d: 6.12
10d: 6.77
As far as odds go, 1 extra success every 3 dice after the first would make it roughly on par with 1 dice. I think. (So on the 4th/7th/10th.. etc dice)
(Each dice eventually hits an average return of 0.666 as number of dice increases to arbitrary values.)
edit: Extended the progression.
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This would definitely encourage us to focus our dice a lot more. 7d specifically would become an important breakpoint for +2 successes and a theoretical chance of doubling and I'd expect a lot of 7d increments in our future if we went this route. The only real things this wouldn't incentivize pumping faster would be stuff that already had Bonus Successes, like Crafting stuff with Sten's tutelage, but it'd definitely make us jack other stuff up faster.
Of course, it's a pure advantage, so stuff would in fact rise quite a bit faster. Right now we can only average 1 success per die when taking the long slow route, being able to come very close to the same on things we put 7-10 dice into makes sudden jumps in competence much more doable. Like, I'd expect our Hugr to hit 7 in three turns or less after we implemented this system, and then one new skills rising to 4 every turn at a minimum. And when we decide we need a new Trick, we'll have it Refined in only one or two turns, and so on. Which may be better than the current pacing, I dunno, but it's worth noting.
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Absolutely, but it's also less powerful and encourages us to be well rounded. Our power level in specific areas we focus on would spike hard if Shard's suggestion was put into play, and we'd be a lot more inclined to specialize in some things and neglect others.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
In terms of player involvement it would probably be better to get awesomething 1 on turn 1, awesomething 2 on turn 2, etc, than a hypothetical awesomething 1 & 2 on turn 2.
The extra success on the 4th/7th..etc is technically slightly worse than 1d, but it's small enough that it shouldn't really matter.
The extra success on the 4th/7th..etc is technically slightly worse than 1d, but it's small enough that it shouldn't really matter.
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It's definitely more exciting, it's just also a lot more powerful. Like, if we chose with the system you suggest we could just Master all three of our Ignition Tricks next turn, or get Hugr 7. We could then get Hamr 7 maybe two turns after that, and so on. We could pretty reliably get another 5 or 6 combat pool dice in a turn if we wanted (we put 4 dice in each of 5 skills we have at 2), and so on.
We can do some of that now, but the really big jumps are so costly compared to the efficiency of slow steady progress that we only do them when we have a compelling reason. We would need no such reason if the dice odds were the same at high numbers of dice as low ones. Since high numbers of dice are basically necessary to raise high level stuff (7+ especially) it also makes us a lot more quick and efficient at raising those things specifically, which is an obvious power increase for us long term.
Like, it's definitely more dynamic, it's just also a lot more able to jump our actual power level by huge leaps and bounds in a single turn, and would generally be a significant power-up in practice. Which isn't inherently bad, but it'd be a big change of the sort that warnings should be made about.
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- Location
- India
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- He/His
@Imperial Fister, our char sheet doesnt have the mention of the Taming the Freedfire Alt muna.
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This may be intentional, it doesn't take a Capacity slot which makes an entry for it confusing and its effect has been added (Ignition is now level 2). That's what happened when we upgraded Standstill so it may well be standard.