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@Imperial Fister for planning purposes, how is the Gotland Trip gonna be structured? Will we have the opportunity to do things like Divinations during the trip as part of it?
-travel to
-arrival, get opportunity to do stuff and/or explore
-spreading ashes, opportunity to say something
-travel back

0~0~0

I'm not gonna get home for another few hours, so there's a chance there's not going to be an update today
 
-travel to
-arrival, get opportunity to do stuff and/or explore
-spreading ashes, opportunity to say something
-travel back

Okay, yeah, that should give us a divination opportunity on the trip, which lets us go a bit heavier on crafting that turn, completing the Book Cover, doing small gifts for the family, and so on. Upon reflection, I think we get Kurt only a weapon and a fertility ritual this Yule, as spending an action seems excessive and the difference between Superior and Grand on armor is pretty big. We'll round that out with armor in the winter once our workshop is upgraded. We can also fit in a helmet for poor Agnar Bjarnesson who took an axe to the face that was partially our fault, though.

oh. how do we send word to Asva though? I don't think its fair for her to know of Steinnar's passing only two years later

Asva is actually apparently in Denmark, so we can grab her on the way. Denmark is pretty much on the way.
 
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Asva is actually apparently in Denmark, so we can grab her on the way. Denmark is pretty much on the way.
oh, fair enough then. this does leave Gabriel. but I guess its less urgent on that front.

better not wait too long though. it will be very awkward for him to arrive in the Hading in 5 years with a full band of heroes, in an epic revenge quest to kill the man who took everything from him- only to discover he died years ago
 
oh, fair enough then. this does leave Gabriel. but I guess its less urgent on that front.

better not wait too long though. it will be very awkward for him to arrive in the Hading in 5 years with a full band of heroes, in an epic revenge quest to kill the man who took everything from him- only to discover he died years ago

My current tentative idea of a plan is we go to Vestfold next year and then Wessex once more between then and the War Arc. I feel like there should be time for that if we're careful, probably. We might fiddle with the order there if we discover Steinarr's killer and want to get Gabriel's help getting rid of the one who denied him his revenge or something like that (along with hopefully Stigr's help and maybe Stigulf's as well as he was friendly with Steinarr, telling Farbjorn the good news about his dad, and so on).

I do think we need one more Danelaw/Wessex trip with Halla to get some closure there, narratively speaking.
 
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The thing is, Kurt is kind of bad at fighting. Based on the bonus he was getting during the Revenge Raid he appears to be at Upper Bottom...for comparison, this is where Aki was at before he left, so at the age of 14 or so. The Orthstirr gain from the revenge raid and better gear would help with that but probably not enough to jump him multiple categories (I suspect the two together get him to Lower Middle). Besides which, if he wanted that life he'd be living it...being a professional warrior is not hard in Norse society. Trying to recruit him as a huskarl thus seems incorrect.

To be clear, I still think we want to give him some armor and a weapon, because he did fight bravely and well in the battle and we'd like him better equipped (and doing at least part of that this Yule seems reasonable), but not as a recruitment tool.

Well, it depends. He's Upper Bottom now, but with the opportunity to train with several skilled fighters who are all more skilled than him? If he genuinely does not want it, then that's one thing, but he may simply be economically disadvantaged and not fortunate enough to have the time and resources to dedicate to training that we and other warriors have had. He fought courageously enough.

I think it's worth giving him the choice, and respecting it either way. He should know that the option is open to him rather than barred to him due to his status as a waged labourer.

Buying a single thrall for Latin knowledge seems valid. I'm a bit reluctant other than that, but instantly freeing some isn't crazy talk. I suspect hiring a free farm hand is a better Food to Work Die ratio, but Thralls might be a bit easier to acquire, depending. and yeah, freeing them is probably a good call morally...especially female thralls of the younger, prettier, sort given Randi's story might be in Halla's mind.

If we find a monk then I would want us to free them too, honestly - personally I wouldn't vote for any option that involves slave ownership, although I completely respect others may want to play Halla differently. We could make it a quid pro quo for Latin lessons, but honestly I'm not even sure I could stomach voting for anything that made it transactional. I'd rather hope they were willing out of gratitude and maybe the promise of payment and passage to Wessex in a year's time or something.

But that would be a discussion for the thread to have at the time we found someone who knew Latin. It seems like our best route at this point to continue the armour project, and if we're sailing around Scandanavia anyway...
 
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Well, it depends. He's Upper Bottom now, but with the opportunity to train with several skilled fighters who are all more skilled than him? If he genuinely does not want it, then that's one thing, but he may simply be economically disadvantaged and not fortunate enough to have the time and resources to dedicate to training that we and other warriors have had. He fought courageously enough.

I think it's worth giving him the choice, and respecting it either way. He should know that the option is open to him rather than barred to him due to his status as a waged labourer.

I'm not against giving him the option to improve his combat skills, that seems quite reasonable, I'm against actively pushing him to do so. I also think you're misreading Norse cultural queues somewhat...most warriors don't train. If you want to fight you just start fighting. Members of a Warband are a bit different, but most Norsemen just don't actually do that. So, if Kurt wanted to go out and be a warrior, economic disadvantage is definitely not stopping him. Other things might be, but not that.

If we find a monk then I would want us to free them too, honestly - personally I wouldn't vote for any option that involves slave ownership, although I completely respect others may want to play Halla differently. We could make it a quid pro quo for Latin lessons, but honestly I'm not even sure I could stomach voting for anything that made it transactional. I'd rather hope they were willing out of gratitude and maybe the promise of payment and passage to Wessex in a year's time or something.

But that would be a discussion for the thread to have at the time we found someone who knew Latin. It seems like our best route at this point to continue the armour project, and if we're sailing around Scandanavia anyway...

To be clear, I'm in agreement that we should not own slaves for any meaningful period of time. Though I'll note that even if we free them immediately, we can offer a ride home (or at least back to Christian lands) in exchange for Latin instruction to just about anyone who speaks Latin.
 
Yeah, that'd be a decent move to make. Encountering someone who's enthralled, offer them freedom and a ride to wherever they need to go in exchange for their assistance with our research.
 
I also think you're misreading Norse cultural queues somewhat...most warriors don't train.
Well, 'don't train' isn't quite right. They may not practice specific moves or techniques on a regular basis, but things like archery, wrestling, and swinging would be practiced regularly—just as part of their day-to-day life.

Chopping firewood helps you refine your swings, hunting refines your archery, and wrestling was done recreationally—to use those as examples.
 
Well, 'don't train' isn't quite right. They may not practice specific moves or techniques on a regular basis, but things like archery, wrestling, and swinging would be practiced regularly—just as part of their day-to-day life.

Chopping firewood helps you refine your swings, hunting refines your archery, and wrestling was done recreationally—to use those as examples.

Sure. My point was more that they don't train more than Kurt likely does as a farmhand. Not as, like, a separate thing.
 
I'm not against giving him the option to improve his combat skills, that seems quite reasonable, I'm against actively pushing him to do so. I also think you're misreading Norse cultural queues somewhat...most warriors don't train. If you want to fight you just start fighting. Members of a Warband are a bit different, but most Norsemen just don't actually do that. So, if Kurt wanted to go out and be a warrior, economic disadvantage is definitely not stopping him. Other things might be, but not that.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting actively pushing him to do so.

What I'm suggesting is that we offer him a token of our respect and recognition, and implicitly offer him the choice of whether he'd like to remain in his current role, or explore moving up in the world. There's no pressure or leverage being exerted either way. If he does want to remain as our farmhand, then that's fine and he should know we're cool with it. I would also note that he is already a warrior, given he fought in the battle - being a free man and having the right and obligation to bear arms are kind of hard to divorce.

However, I'm not sure I agree with your characterisation of Norse cultivators here? Like, if we look at Hasvir, he absolutely does train, and a lot of the stronger men in the valley also clearly find time to train, even if it's just via arranging regular sparring with friends. Remember IF saying when we made the cauldron that we were actually relatively unusual in not having training aids? (I presume he meant amongst stronger Norse warriors, rather than all Norsemen, but even so.) Whilst all free men can go out and fight if they so wish, I think having the social status and werewithal for training aids and a bunch of strong friends in regular sparring matches is less common.

To be clear, I'm in agreement that we should not own slaves for any meaningful period of time. Though I'll note that even if we free them immediately, we can offer a ride home (or at least back to Christian lands) in exchange for Latin instruction to just about anyone who speaks Latin.

Yeah, that seems reasonable to me. I would also offer some kind of wages, maybe eve see if any of our kids are old enough to start learning to read and write and make them an official tutor. This would also make our reasons for wanting the tuition seem a bit more innocuous , honestly.

EDIT:
Sure. My point was more that they don't train more than Kurt likely does as a farmhand. Not as, like, a separate thing.

I think that they absolutely do, because being a landowner or the armed and kept retainer of a landowner gives you leisure time to devote to dedicated martial training; like the dedicated training which we are constantly engaged in. Look at the regular sparring matches that we engage in with our huskarls and neighbours. Or the extensive amount of time Halla can devotes to her cultivation research and crafting projects. Not to mention cultivation itself!

Being a farmhand means Kurt has to spend more of his time, y'know, doing a fulltime job as a farmhand. Some of which may double as practice in skills for war, sure, but watching cattle or making hay sure isn't, certainly not when compared to constantly training with other experts.
 
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My current tentative idea of a plan is we go to Vestfold next year and then Wessex once more between then and the War Arc. I feel like there should be time for that if we're careful, probably. We might fiddle with the order there if we discover Steinarr's killer and want to get Gabriel's help getting rid of the one who denied him his revenge or something like that (along with hopefully Stigr's help and maybe Stigulf's as well as he was friendly with Steinarr, telling Farbjorn the good news about his dad, and so on).
I mean, thats possibly a long window. Halla is 22. we go to Vestfold in 1 year from now. but the War Arc might take 5 or more years before it happens. thats a lot of time
 
To be clear, I'm not suggesting actively pushing him to do so.

What I'm suggesting is that we offer him a token of our respect and recognition, and implicitly offer him the choice of whether he'd like to remain in his current role, or explore moving up in the world. There's no pressure or leverage being exerted either way. If he does want to remain as our farmhand, then that's fine and he should know we're cool with it. I would also note that he is already a warrior, given he fought in the battle - being a free man and having the right and obligation to bear arms are kind of hard to divorce.

I was talking more about 'warrior' as a primary career path, but fair enough.

Yeah, that seems reasonable to me. I would also offer some kind of wages, maybe eve see if any of our kids are old enough to start learning to read and write and make them an official tutor. This would also make our reasons for wanting the tuition seem a bit more innocuous , honestly.

Something like that, yeah.

However, I'm not sure I agree with your characterisation of Norse cultivators here? Like, if we look at Hasvir, he absolutely does train, and a lot of the stronger men in the valley also clearly find time to train, even if it's just via arranging regular sparring with friends. Remember IF saying when we made the cauldron that we were actually relatively unusual in not having training aids? (I presume he meant amongst stronger Norse warriors, rather than all Norsemen, but even so.) Whilst all free men can go out and fight if they so wish, I think having the social status and werewithal for training aids and a bunch of strong friends in regular sparring matches is less common.

We're talking two different things here. Halla wasn't stated as unusual among people for not having Training Items, she was unusual among people of her level of prowess. Which is to say warband level, not random warrior level. The two are very different things. One can certainly lead to the other, but generally, when a Norseman embarks on a life of violence, they are not already a warband member. The warbands recruit you if you do well at that...exceptions are made for the well-trained kids of warband members, as we saw with Hal, but the default way to become a professional warrior doesn't involve having that stuff to start with, it involves seeking out battle and acquitting yourself well, and then deciding to keep doing that (and then maybe joining a warband).

Training aids and lots of sparring partners are definitely not standard, you're right, but they're not standard for most Norseman who go out to be professional warriors and raiders either, that's 'warband only' stuff for the most part.

I think that they absolutely do, because being a landowner or the armed and kept retainer of a landowner gives you leisure time to devote to dedicated martial training; like the dedicated training which we are constantly engaged in. Look at the regular sparring matches that we engage in with our huskarls and neighbours. Or the extensive amount of time Halla can devotes to her cultivation research and crafting projects. Not to mention cultivation itself!

Being a farmhand means Kurt has to spend more of his time, y'know, doing a fulltime job as a farmhand. Some of which may double as practice in skills for war, sure, but watching cattle or making hay sure isn't, certainly not when compared to constantly training with other experts.

The thing is, all that is true of our Huskarls as well. Kurt is not doing vastly more hours of work on the farm than Abjorn or Vagn (indeed, both of them are providing at least as many Work Dice as he is, and not reducing them by working less hours). Like, yes, we own the land, but we're still definitely working on it ourselves for the most part (or working in the smithy, or on seidr...the other stuff we use Work Dice for). Halla herself also does some weird experimentation, but given the Super Magical tools (and weapons and armor in many cases) she's given everyone people seem unlikely to complain about her weirdness, and the same does not apply to anyone else. There's just not a sharp divide where our huskarls have vastly more free time than he does or Work Dice would function quite differently. They might have a bit more, but it's not a huge sea change that would keep him from, say, joining the sparring if he wanted.
 
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Voting is now closed
Scheduled vote count started by Imperial Fister on Oct 30, 2023 at 8:34 PM, finished with 107 posts and 13 votes.

  • [X] Pump him for information
    -[X] We're primarily trying to get info on who he paid to get left alone, that part seems relevant and like whoever he paid might've set this up. However, he's drunk, and there's no need to be rude, we'll use Light Touch if needed and gently guide the conversation in that direction rather than be impolite about it. We will also happily allow him to tell us things like where he's from and why his family moved here, whether they'd be open to trade in the future, things like that. That's all secondary to who they paid to be left alone, though.
    -[X] Keep a careful eye out for when he tires of our company, make our goodbyes and get out of there before his mood shifts towards the truly unpleasant. Using Goal Tell and Lowest Limit to help with this inasmuch as they can.
    [X] Call it a win and go home
 
Alright, if 2 people would be so kind as to roll me a 17d6 for your silver-tongue, that'd be appreciated. The higher result between the two will be the one we're going with.

Also, I was intending to finish up this turn today, but I'm not sure that that's going to be possible with the time I have left, so I'm just going to give you a second info-pumping opportunity and also your rewards
 
Alright, if 2 people would be so kind as to roll me a 17d6 for your silver-tongue, that'd be appreciated. The higher result between the two will be the one we're going with.
Lets see how it goes...
Abby Normal threw 12 6-faced dice. Reason: Info Speaking Total: 39
1 1 2 2 6 6 5 5 4 4 3 3 3 3 2 2 5 5 2 2 4 4 2 2
Abby Normal threw 5 6-faced dice. Reason: Info Speaking Total: 16
4 4 6 6 1 1 4 4 1 1
 
Can we spend some Odr on this too? Like, another 5 pts?

I AM NOT ROLLING, I AM DECLARING THIS BEFORE ANYONE DOES
 
I'll do one roll.

EDIT: Eesh. Only 8 successes, even with bonuses that's not great. Hopefully the other is better.
EDIT2: Nope doesn't look so. Ah, well.
DeadmanwalkingXI threw 11 6-faced dice. Reason: Hugr Total: 34
5 5 2 2 2 2 1 1 6 6 2 2 5 5 1 1 5 5 4 4 1 1
DeadmanwalkingXI threw 6 6-faced dice. Reason: Silver-Tongue Total: 24
6 6 5 5 4 4 2 2 1 1 6 6
 
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If My declaration is accepted, that drags you up to 13 and Abby's up to 16-17.

Which should be fine?

Abby's is actually one lower than mine at base. We both rolled badly. If Friendly and First Impression apply we hit 10, so a Reward Die would get us to 11 even without Odr.

Spending that is probably worth it if we can't spend Odr.


Can we split the difference and spend, like, 3? That definitely gets us to the 11-15 level of success.
 
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