Thats a bit disappointing. I was hoping for a big fight with all our friends and family standing by our side, and I was also waiting to see their faces when they finally get the answer to the weird shit that Halla does every now and then that requires everyone to dropnwhat they are doing and stand guard over her. Does this mean only one of our children will be initiated into the secret?

Well. We get to skip disclosure entirely on whoever we use Charred Soul to have as our next PC. The whole point of that person then doing Disclosure would be to initiate basically everyone else. So...if that plan goes off, none of the kids would likely be initiated into Odr Cultivation during Halla's lifetime, but all would be very shortly thereafter as they received full Disclosure.

All of which is to say we might well still get most of that, but probably only after Halla is only there to watch it in spirit.
 
This has been mentioned. If she's him or his agent, the biggest sign is her yellow eyes, which are true both times so it's probably an 'always was' sort of thing. We're suspicious, but we also hate her guts, so it's hard to say how much that makes us more inclined to believe badly of her.
while its definitely the most likely options, I wouldn't discount the alternative, that her yellow eyes made her convenient to impresonate(since you could keep the eye color), or that whatever causes her yellow eyes makes her more susceptible to drysalt's magic(ie, if its because she herself is a troll). and we do know there is a doppleganger aroun
 
[X] You've got a few ideas
-[X] The last of them gave you some information as weregild, that someone masterminded this and called them to strike at Steinarr. You've also been tested for being a doppelganger twice in the lead-up to this attack, including by Dwarves when you negotiated for the metal for Dorri's commission, and they're aloof from human politics. Someone's meddling, and you get a feeling that he's being set-up, since you don't see what anyone involved in the current political mess gains from Father's death that would be worth gold enough to move the elite of a Warband. You're going to do some digging to track the mastermind, and that'll require finishing your training with Solrun, but you should both be on guard for the possibility of a third party wearing other's faces in your searches.

My guillotine of a brain just had a REVELATION about the nature of Saga Expansion, and after asking some questions, I think I just realized the general shape of Realm 1.

Realm 0 is the realm of Thralls, completely dependent on the goodwill of their masters, and this is likely why the likes of Lidrun look down on non-Odr Cultivators. You only have tiny dribbles that aren't enough to do anything of purpose.

Realm 1 then is the realm of Man. Starting with Saga Establishment--or specifically, the realm of the Karl--the Freeman who is king upon their estate. They have freedom, but also only control that parcel of land that is theirs. Their growth is building a foundation that can endure calamity.

Saga Expansion then? That's the realm of a Jarl--you reach out, you conquer land, you raise Hirdsmen to protect it, and profit from being a true Lord. Your reach is beyond merely the walls of your estate, and once the land bows to you, that is when the Realm is complete. To do this, you also have the privileges of a Lord--namely, the ability to bequeath Power onto leal servants. That's why we can control the color, shape, and texture of Odr in Saga Expansion. Because the point is using it on other people without them being Cultivators themselves.

I asked IF if Corpsemaker's Ironmasks were Cultivators, he said no, but then I asked if they had Infusions, and he said "Come to think of it, they did seem weirdly strong..." Ironmasks are the ones directly sworn to their Lord, and the one privy to their secrets, it makes sense that this makes them worthy of an investment of their Lord's power as well. In short, I think that the major benefit of Saga Expansion is the ability to Infuse the stats of others without actually making them Cultivators yourself.

If that's the case, then the final step of Realm 1 is likely the realm of a King. Where even Jarls must pay homage to you--I expect then that the final trial of Saga Expansion is defending your newborn Jarldom from invasion from without--because ultimately, a Jarl must be able to defend their land from all challengers.

EDIT: With that said, I think most Steelfathers are at 1.3, simply because Mass Disclosure hasn't happened yet, and a King needs even Jarls to bend the knee--but the thing is that a Jarl is strong enough to threaten a King, and most Steelfathers fear death too much.

And I think Ironjaw Is in Realm 2, and that's part of how he's powerful enough to claim the title of Steelfather--at the very least, I suspect Farbjorn is one of his subordinate Odr Cultivators.
A Jarl needs to reach out and claim Land for their own, bending it to their will. Saga Expansion is about reaching beyond your safety net and subjugating lands beyond it (Or in this case, Creating them), and presumably recruiting Spirits to live on your lands and Hersirs to oversee your new holdings, all of which will be paying you Taxes as recognition of being allowed to live on your Lands.

This is likely the benefits of a strong foundation--your lands are extremely valuable real estate compared to a lot of places, which means you have more bargaining power when it comes to sorting out new settlers, and you're more appealing in general as people who are stuck in marginal or overcrowded area are attracted by promises of expansive, high quality land.

After all, if you're going from an Odr Income of "The Gig Economy" to a steady salary of 4 per turn--but have to pay 1 of those as taxes... That's still 3 Odr you weren't getting beforehand, and there's nothing stopping you from running a side hustle either. Unlanded Spirits in this context are Outlaws--and that's a shitty existence. While landed ones like the ones we're likely trying to attract (Or recruit by giving opportunities), are proper Karls--productive members of society.

I like this. It makes a lot of sense. We should research this things in the next turns.

Like recruiting Spirits and Infusing members of our Household.

Dorri is a harder possession target than a kid, I'd bet. We've also been around him and seen no signs. But we'd want to test him as well if we can arrange it, yes.
I didn't say possession, I said he got doppled.

Either way we should interrogate Peter and discover what he knows. If he turns to know nothing, we hunt the doppelganger. If he is possessed, we pull out the Spirit and interrogate them instead.

A spell to know if somebody was possessed in the past could be useful. In case Peter had been possessed, but then the Spirit left and he dosen't have any memory.
 
while its definitely the most likely options, I wouldn't discount the alternative, that her yellow eyes made her convenient to impresonate(since you could keep the eye color), or that whatever causes her yellow eyes makes her more susceptible to drysalt's magic(ie, if its because she herself is a troll). and we do know there is a doppleganger aroun

Doppelgangers make everyone paranoid when they are araound. Wich is also because they are so effective even when their presence is known.

We should be careful to not become too paranoid and start accusing everybody that they are a doppelganger.

Maybe we should develop a signal or password with our friends and family to recognize each other. So we can make sure who we are talking abaout our secrets and plans is not an impostor in disguise.
 
Thats a bit disappointing. I was hoping for a big fight with all our friends and family standing by our side, and I was also waiting to see their faces when they finally get the answer to the weird shit that Halla does every now and then that requires everyone to dropnwhat they are doing and stand guard over her. Does this mean only one of our children will be initiated into the secret?
The problem is that the Big Fight is simply scaled too hard for us to take without awful casualties so we pretty much need to sidestep it.
 
Thats a bit disappointing. I was hoping for a big fight with all our friends and family standing by our side, and I was also waiting to see their faces when they finally get the answer to the weird shit that Halla does every now and then that requires everyone to dropnwhat they are doing and stand guard over her. Does this mean only one of our children will be initiated into the secret?
We could try to outvote the "no disclosure" faction when we are ready for Halla to have her grand finale.

Like doing disclosure to all our friends and allies in the aftermath of the war arc could make a great end to Hallas chapter of the story.
One meaningful battle, sacrifing Hallas (and probably many of her friends) live and throwing it all in in an unsurvivable battle, all to claw back a few secrets, to enable the next generation to grow up with a few more bits of liberated true cultivation.

A contrast between
*Ymir & Steel that are unchanging
and
*Norse cultivators that have internalized the three truth as taught by Steinarr (all men die, power requires sacrifice, memory is forever) and say "my (true) death isn't defeat, it is a sacrifice that allows the following generations to grow greater than I ever was, one day our sacrifices will be enough to allow a generation to out grow your power and defeat you"
 
We could try to outvote the "no disclosure" faction when we are ready for Halla to have her grand finale.

Like doing disclosure to all our friends and allies in the aftermath of the war arc could make a great end to Hallas chapter of the story.
One meaningful battle, sacrifing Hallas (and probably many of her friends) live and throwing it all in in an unsurvivable battle, all to claw back a few secrets, to enable the next generation to grow up with a few more bits of liberated true cultivation.

A contrast between
*Ymir & Steel that are unchanging
and
*Norse cultivators that have internalized the three truth as taught by Steinarr (all men die, power requires sacrifice, memory is forever) and say "my (true) death isn't defeat, it is a sacrifice that allows the following generations to grow greater than I ever was, one day our sacrifices will be enough to allow a generation to out grow your power and defeat you"

I like the idea.

But such a moment is way in the future. Many things could change until then.
 
We could try to outvote the "no disclosure" faction when we are ready for Halla to have her grand finale.

Like doing disclosure to all our friends and allies in the aftermath of the war arc could make a great end to Hallas chapter of the story.
One meaningful battle, sacrifing Hallas (and probably many of her friends) live and throwing it all in in an unsurvivable battle, all to claw back a few secrets, to enable the next generation to grow up with a few more bits of liberated true cultivation.

A contrast between
*Ymir & Steel that are unchanging
and
*Norse cultivators that have internalized the three truth as taught by Steinarr (all men die, power requires sacrifice, memory is forever) and say "my (true) death isn't defeat, it is a sacrifice that allows the following generations to grow greater than I ever was, one day our sacrifices will be enough to allow a generation to out grow your power and defeat you"
The battle is meaningless if it is lost. Victory is everything and defeat is nothing. I would much rather win than lose.
 
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Do you think that it would lead to IF going "yeah nope, you all die and achieve nothing, not a single word about realm 0 is easier to pass, sorry"?
Yes, otherwise the associated foes will come and kill the rest of the people who heard it. Including the kids. At best we get information about the battle for the next go around. We either win and disclose the information, or we lose and everyone who has heard us disclose the information is dead. It's not a sliding scale here, it's we either win and they get to keep the knowledge or we die and they're next. It doesn't make it easier to pass on the knowledge, the price of the knowledge is the fight. Every time a person who wants to disclose has to go through the same trial trice afterwords the enemy considers the fight a lost cause and starts looking for other ways to fuck you.
 
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Yes, otherwise the associated foes will come and kill the rest of the people who heard it. Including the kids. At best we get information about the battle for the next go around. We either win and disclose the information, or we lose and everyone who has heard us disclose the information is dead. It's not a sliding scale here, it's we either win and they get to keep the knowledge or we die and they're next.
So you are ruling out the possibility of some who heard getting away while others fight to the death?
Why?

And why would the kids be close enough to be in the splash zone of the battle?
 
So you are ruling out the possibility of some who heard getting away while others fight to the death?
Why?

And why would the kids be close enough to be in the splash zone of the battle?
Reminder that the Adversary can warp causality, if it needed to it could put Foemen and such wherever the directions to run are.

Also the kids would need to be there for them to find out, otherwise that'd be 2 separate Disclosures which means even if someone escaped they'd then have to fight the second set of Foemen.
 
So you are ruling out the possibility of some who heard getting away while others fight to the death?
Why?

And why would the kids be close enough to be in the splash zone of the battle?
Literally one of the enemies is called 'Pursuer', and also, it's actually surprisingly hard to survive a battle when you're the side that's routing.

As demonstrated in this war.
 
Honestly, if we have to deal with this I wonder what the other cultures are dealing with.

Your big bad that's preventing your culture from making any real progress being unkillable due to already being dead plus OOC knowledge that with history as-is Ragnarok's gonna wipe everything out eventually is kind of a downer >.>
 
Your big bad that's preventing your culture from making any real progress being unkillable due to already being dead plus OOC knowledge that with history as-is Ragnarok's gonna wipe everything out eventually is kind of a downer >.>
Was that stated outright from fister? Because I could understand Ragnarok destroying the Norse lands, but I find it odd that God would let that happen to lands where He's in power.
 
Was that stated outright from fister? Because I could understand Ragnarok destroying the Norse lands, but I find it odd that God would let that happen to lands where He's in power.
Well, the game (currently) takes place in the Norse Lands, so I was referring to those parts.

Everyone/Everywhere else will probably be okay.
 
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Reminder that the Adversary can warp causality, if it needed to it could put Foemen and such wherever the directions to run are.
Looking at Solrun telling/not telling us about Horras deep roots... True.
But with caveats of:
We saw it happen exactly ones.
With like one sentence said in a 4 eyes talk.
And when the push of Halla talking to Solrun about it happened, the Nornir instantly unfucked it.
Never again used, despite the chances to screw us over.

Must be extremely expensive for the enemy.
And considering the Nornir unfucking it, seems to be something the gods can counter.

Also the kids would need to be there for them to find out, otherwise that'd be 2 separate Disclosures which means even if someone escaped they'd then have to fight the second set of Foemen.
They'd be able to do a "0th realm, never did anything with it" disclosure with all their friends and allies supporting them (including cultivators).

Way different odds.
Unless it isn't, in which case "inherit to Kid, then do 0th realm disclosure" would be nonsense.
As would probably be book/other permanent record disclosure (anything about no escape would also have to be true about the record being destroyed)



Literally one of the enemies is called 'Pursuer', and also, it's actually surprisingly hard to survive a battle when you're the side that's routing.

As demonstrated in this war.
Nah, this war showed the problem of routing when your enemy has greater forces than you free to pursue.
 
Nah, this war showed the problem of routing when your enemy has greater forces than you free to pursue.
Literally the base amount the Adversary will send after us is 3-9 times our infusion ranks, which, at maximum would lead to 180 Foeman showing up, and at least 60. There will be enough there for some to break off and chase after any who run.
 
Just as a note, regarding making AOE heals or IFF wide heals, we do now have access to Loopholes, which may enable us to make something that was "impractically impossible" into "Difficult".
 
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