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NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

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Do we actually need Gabriel though? What we need is a small enough ball of "energy" to do the work with that chains facilitate. Could we not ask our father/uncle to put them on/take them off of us? It is not like we have a fear of them leaving the chains on us, so they would be a tool for precision work instead.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
[X] Plan Let's Get Married
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Okay. Only question here - why 2d6 into weaponcraft? It seems like that woudl be a slow one, and if you're going to go above 1d6, you're better to have a concentration of it.

Like, the first 1d6 is giving you an average of 1 point total.

Once you ahve a decent number, each is giving you an average that is very close to 2/3rds of a point each.

The second 1d6 is giving you 5/9ths. Just like the first die is the most efficient, the second is the least. So why not toss it into ember-winged cloak or something, given that you're already putting more than one into that one?

(for that matter, fire hugareida don't tend to have that "second is the worst" effect anyway.)
Sivantic said:
Do we actually need Gabriel though? What we need is a small enough ball of "energy" to do the work with that chains facilitate. Could we not ask our father/uncle to put them on/take them off of us? It is not like we have a fear of them leaving the chains on us, so they would be a tool for precision work instead.
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I'd guess that wearing the chains is shameful in and of itself, and would likely do some sort of damage to our orthstirr. Let's not do that.
 
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Sirrocco said:
I'd guess that wearing the chains is shameful in and of itself, and would likely do some sort of damage to our orthstirr. Let's not do that.
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You would guess, yes.

That is why I am wondering if we have a solid answer to that or not. My impression is that it does damage having them on, thus why Gabriel has them all the time rather than simply chained once and then had them removed. Which opens up the possibility of using them in a more positive manner.
 
Sivantic said:
That is why I am wondering if we have a solid answer to that or not. My impression is that it does damage having them on, thus why Gabriel has them all the time rather than simply chained once and then had them removed. Which opens up the possibility of using them in a more positive manner.
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You're missing my point.

Magically, they do exactly as you suggest. They bind the magic in the moment. They deny access. They aren't harming Gabriel over time, but they are preventing him from using external powers. This is especially effective against viking cultivators, because their powers are so much mroe heavily weighted towards the external, but it still works (and is a major limitation) against people like Gabriel.

We are not Gabriel.

These things? They are the shackles of a slave. They are shameful. They deny you the ability to defend yourself. Basically, I look at who Halla is as a person and how she was raised, and I'm pretty sure that for her, putting them on, however temporarily, would be a nid.

It's true. I could be wrong... but I'm pretty sure I'm not.
 
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Sirrocco said:
Okay. Only question here - why 2d6 into weaponcraft? It seems like that woudl be a slow one, and if you're going to go above 1d6, you're better to have a concentration of it.

Like, the first 1d6 is giving you an average of 1 point total.

Once you ahve a decent number, each is giving you an average that is very close to 2/3rds of a point each.

The second 1d6 is giving you 5/9ths. Just like the first die is the most efficient, the second is the least. So why not toss it into ember-winged cloak or something, given that you're already putting more than one into that one?

(for that matter, fire hugareida don't tend to have that "second is the worst" effect anyway.)
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So, when you're at exactly 0 in the skill and going to be using it imminently, the averages don't tell the whole story. Specifically, 1d6 has a 2/3 chance of getting you to level 1 and a 0% chance of getting you to level 2. 2d6 meanwhile, has a 5/9 chance of getting to level 1 and a 3/9 chance of getting to level 2, and thus only a 1/9 chance to not get the skill at all. If you're, say, going raiding in only a turn or two and really want to have the skill no matter what, 2d6 is a good way to get it. It's less average successes, but greater surety that you get something.

I'm not sure I buy 'second is the worst' in general either...anything above 1 escalates in how 'bad' it is, it's just also the only way to get more and more successes. Oh, and the 5/9 thing on the second die is incorrect, it's actually 7/9 due to the '0 successes becomes 1 success' rule.

Sirrocco said:
I'd guess that wearing the chains is shameful in and of itself, and would likely do some sort of damage to our orthstirr. Let's not do that.
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Agreed. I'm not a big fan of this plan either, all things considered. For more or less these reasons.
 
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Sirrocco said:
These things? They are the shackles of a slave. They are shameful. They deny you the ability to defend yourself. Basically, I look at who Halla is as a person and how she was raised, and I'm pretty sure that for her, putting them on, however temporarily, would be a nid.

It's true. I could be wrong... but I'm pretty sure I'm not.
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Which is why I wondered that if we were in a situation where they were not shameful, as in we explicitly asked our parents to put them on in a temporary situation. This is not someone else putting them on her as punishment. Either way we would not be a sole actor here. We do not have slave manacles at hand, that is why I suggested asking either our father, who might have some, or our uncle who could potentially make some, about it.

Rather than assume stuff about the manacles and have to go through a lengthy friendship process, we could just ask about the manacles.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I'm not sure I buy 'second is the worst' in general either...anything above 1 escalates in how 'bad' it is, it's just also the only way to get more and more successes.
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That's not true, though. That' s just mathematically false.

It's like this. Each die has two parts - a good side and a bad side. The good side is a 1/3rd chance of +2 and a 1/3rd chance of +1. The bad side is a 1/3rd chance of -1, but it only unlocks if there are enough successes in the pool to cancel out.

With one die, it's easy - you have no chance of unlocking your negative, so your average payoff is just 1.

With two dice, you have a 2/3 chance that your first die gets a success and thus unlocks your second die's negative... but you also have a 2/3 chance that your second die gets a success and unlocks your first die's negative. So basically, for the second die and the second die only, your cumulative effective "chance to unlock negative" is 4/3.

now, with two dice you have a chance table like so:

431
320
100

which means that you (again) have a 2/3 chance of having at least one success sitting. So your third die has a 2/3 chance of unlocking its negative, but doesn't actually increase the chance of hitting negative for the first two at all.

I suspect that it gets worse from there, but the 2nd die is worse than any later die could be, and the third is the second best die on the list.
 
I mean, I worked out a perfectly viable way forward using Standstill to create an Orthstirr Funnel that can let us drop what we need in instead of just making a big blob. It's just a matter of shaking loose the training dice to practice it.

I imagine this might have handy applications in other forms of magic too down the line. But that being said, it's not something that needs to constantly be readied either, or something we need to hit right this second when we want to get Firebomb and Ember Wings up to a more usable state. Standstill seems to have quite a bit of utility going for it though, simply in being able to freeze magic into desirable flows. It refuses to play nice with other forms of Orthstirr, which means it can be directed as a deterrent when we don't want a lot to go somewhere.
 
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Sirrocco said:
That's not true, though. That' s just mathematically false.

It's like this. Each die has two parts - a good side and a bad side. The good side is a 1/3rd chance of +2 and a 1/3rd chance of +1. The bad side is a 1/3rd chance of -1, but it only unlocks if there are enough successes in the pool to cancel out.

With one die, it's easy - you have no chance of unlocking your negative, so your average payoff is just 1.

With two dice, you have a 2/3 chance that your first die gets a success and thus unlocks your second die's negative... but you also have a 2/3 chance that your second die gets a success and unlocks your first die's negative. So basically, for the second die and the second die only, your cumulative effective "chance to unlock negative" is 4/3.

now, with two dice you have a chance table like so:

431
320
100

which means that you (again) have a 2/3 chance of having at least one success sitting. So your third die has a 2/3 chance of unlocking its negative, but doesn't actually increase the chance of hitting negative for the first two at all.

I suspect that it gets worse from there, but the 2nd die is worse than any later die could be, and the third is the second best die on the list
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This isn't true, though, because an exactly zero success result counts as as one success meaning the actual table is:

431
321
110

The zero success rule becomes less and less relevant as you get more dice, because if it goes negative it doesn't count, which makes later dice worse (or at least the third one...3 dice actually has a higher chance of zero successes than 2 dice do at 4/27 vs. 2 dice's 1/9).

Alectai said:
I mean, I worked out a perfectly viable way forward using Standstill to create an Orthstirr Funnel that can let us drop what we need in instead of just making a big blob. It's just a matter of shaking loose the training dice to practice it.

I imagine this might have handy applications in other forms of magic too down the line. But that being said, it's not something that needs to constantly be readied either, or something we need to hit right this second when we want to get Firebomb and Ember Wings up to a more usable state. Standstill seems to have quite a bit of utility going for it though, simply in being able to freeze magic into desirable flows. It refuses to play nice with other forms of Orthstirr, which means it can be directed as a deterrent when we don't want a lot to go somewhere.
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I'd honestly rather make friends with Gabriel than invest heavily in a new Trick. We have a lot of things to work on already in terms of training and probably want to make friends with him anyway. It probably goes quicker, too, and doesn't take up any Capacity.
 
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I wonder if we can ask Steinarr to free Gabriel of his shackles, in exchange for I guess not running away or otherwise making him regret doing so.

I think the 'intended' way of solving rhe Orthsirr issue is to get gud to the point that you can be that precise. Obviously that would take too much work..
 
Shard said:
I wonder if we can ask Steinarr to free Gabriel of his shackles, in exchange for I guess not running away or otherwise making him regret doing so.
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We could ask, but I'm doubtful he'd say yes.

Shard said:
I think the 'intended' way of solving rhe Orthsirr issue is to get gud to the point that you can be that precise. Obviously that would take too much work..
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Actually, I think that's impossible. Well, in the short term anyway, I'm pretty sure this is a difference between Chinese Cultivation and Norse Cultivation. We'd need to re-engineer the whole system (or find a way around the issue, of course).
 
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I would describe Norse Cultivation as 'goopy' or 'oily'. Chinese Cultivation is 'light' and 'controlled'. Doesn't really match up.
 
Imperial Fister said:
I would describe Norse Cultivation as 'goopy' or 'oily'. Chinese Cultivation is 'light' and 'controlled'. Doesn't really match up.
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Huh. I wonder what the necessary prerequisite is then...maybe it's just having a Trick Mastered or Perfected? That does involve a significant efficiency upgrade, after all.

We're certainly gonna cheat to get in there one way or another, but I'm super curious what the 'legitimate' route would be.
 
Also tends to leave stains, which... Yeah, that seems to fit how Orthstirr works.

Might even explain how a Perfected Trick becomes 0 cost. You've used it so much and so frequently and in so many ways that it's effectively stained a new functionality into you.
 
If you want a more goopy feel to their cultivation you could also describe it as mud? Or I suppose snow or slush if you want different imagery?
 
Sirrocco said:
Seriously? Okay. Hadn't known that rule. That does change the math at the lower levels a lot.
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Yep. It comes up a fair bit on low numbers of training dice...less often on high dice pool rolls, but not never. It allows some neat results, especially combined with auto-successes (like from Reward Dice, gear, or some kinds of training). Like, with Mom's training, if we invest exactly 1d6 we cannot fail to get at least 1 success on Housecraft training rolls and actually average a flat 2 successes, which is very cool, though more dice add the possibility of real failure.

It also obviously makes 2d6 specifically a lot better...how often its relevant falls off pretty sharply after that, and it's never relevant for determining odds of more than one success, but it can be quite relevant upon occasion.
 
So, adding our recent feat, we have a passive income of 6 orthstirr every year (from Halfdan, Knappr and Nisse). Thats great.

Also @Imperial Fister , our relationships scores are updated, but the descriptions arent. Do we still not get along with our mother even with 8/10 relationship score. Does Drifa still not like us?
Man, what do we need to do to get along with these women? Kill a god or something?
 
Solar Saiyan said:
Also @Imperial Fister , our relationships scores are updated, but the descriptions arent. Do we still not get along with our mother even with 8/10 relationship score. Does Drifa still not like us?
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I actually have them updated on the master copy, I just forgot to do so until now. Thanks for reminding me.

Also, I just remembered that I said that I'd post the wording on the explosive charm. Now, this is very experimental so if it doesn't work out, we'll abstract it more. I'll add in a section on the character sheet for your known charms.

"Hardened-Soft Meets Black Man's End. Force of Fire is Low-Tide's Gift."

Decode this and you get to use the explosion charm to its fullest extent.
 
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