- Location
- Many Places
How does that work?
NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)
- Thread starter I.F. Ister
- Start date
- Original Fantasy Action
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- Tags
- norse mythology (mythology) original xianxia cultivation western cultivation ask sirihand did your mother tell you anything? discussion pleases yggdrasil farming gloating gets people killed granary management hubris is a coward's word you will die norsemen do not die when they are killed the qm has a bad memory the qm is bad at math viking courtroom drama (legal drama) vikings
- Location
- on the way to the fire.
- Pronouns
- He
Take care IF, good luck getting more of those cultivation pills.
- Location
- Space between realms
- Pronouns
- He
Man IF's Medicine/Alchemy hall really holding out on his pills.
Hold on IF!
Hold on IF!
CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- They/Them
What if we just build a fully face-covering helmet? We're a seer's apprentice, I'm sure we could figure out a way to see through it.
- Location
- Many Places
Or just use runes "I shall never obscure my master's sight" or something similar
new form of seer sight- Helmet sight
- Location
- Many Places
That's not an issue if you just remove the eye holes which is what we are proposing
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Well, it would look really scary and metal, so it's definitely worth considering! 
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Fair enough, I'm hardly a helmet expert and likely missed some nuance. Something in that vague vicinity without that specific problem, then.
Alright then. Cool.
Oh dear. Well, hopefully that works out then. Good luck and take care of yourself.
This is Viking erasure and I will not stand for it! /s
More seriously, I'm fairly sure the Sagas mention weapons being taken as loot, which makes sense because a steel sword or even a decent axe is an extremely valuable possession, and am personally unaware of any taboo which meant looted weapons had to be reforged. (In practice this would be an absolute nightmare and incredibly time-consuming if you have to pattern-weld again.) This kind of hang-up about looted weapons might be the case in the setting of this quest, but as far as I am aware it has no historical basis. Indeed, the Ulfberht swords, which are practically our holotypes for what "Viking swords" of the migration period look like, appear in many cases to have been looted or ransomed, and made their way as far afield as the Volga.
Now that being said, there is definitely a distinction expressed in the Sagas between spear-won loot which is honourable, and stealing something like a thief in the night.
There's actually a great bit on this theme in Egil's Saga where he and the gang are out raiding in Courland, and a farmer ends up capturing him and his mates and tying them up. Egil being his classic self, he finds a way to get out of his bindings like a mad badger chewing through a snare, befriends some Danes who were taken prisoner the previous summer, and manages to escape with everyone after looting the farmhouse. But on the way back to the ship he realises this loot was not honourably taken; they have stolen from the farmer like thieves in the night, then slunk away. This won't do at all!
In the woods, Egil stopped and said, 'This is a poor and cowardly raid. We have stolen all the farmer's wealth without his knowing. Such shame will never befall us. Let's go back to the farm and let people know what has happened.'
Everyone tried to dissuade him, saying that they wanted to go to the ship. But Egil put down the chest, and dashed off towards the farm. When he reached it he could see servants leaving the fire-room, carrying trenchers into the main room. Egil saw a great fire in a fire-room with cauldrons on top of it. He went over to it. Large logs had been brought inside and the fire was made in the customary manner, by lighting the end of a log and letting it burn all the way down to the others. Egil grabbed the log, carried it over to the main room and thrust the burning end under the eaves and up into the rafters. Some pieces of wood lay in the yard, and he carried them to the door of the main room. The fire quickly kindled the lining of the roof. The first thing the people knew who were sitting there drinking was that the rafters were ablaze. They ran to the door but there was no easy escape there, because of both the piled wood blocking the door and Egil guarding it. He killed them in the doorway and just outside. It was only moments before the main room flared up and caved in. Everyone else was inside and trapped, while Egil went back to the woods and rejoined his companions. They went to the ship together. Egil claimed as his private booty the treasure-chest he had taken, which turned out to be full of silver.
Thorolf and the others were relieved when Egil came back to the ship, and they left when morning broke. Aki and his sons were in Egil's party. They all sailed to Denmark later that summer and sat in ambush for merchant ships, robbing wherever they could.
Everyone tried to dissuade him, saying that they wanted to go to the ship. But Egil put down the chest, and dashed off towards the farm. When he reached it he could see servants leaving the fire-room, carrying trenchers into the main room. Egil saw a great fire in a fire-room with cauldrons on top of it. He went over to it. Large logs had been brought inside and the fire was made in the customary manner, by lighting the end of a log and letting it burn all the way down to the others. Egil grabbed the log, carried it over to the main room and thrust the burning end under the eaves and up into the rafters. Some pieces of wood lay in the yard, and he carried them to the door of the main room. The fire quickly kindled the lining of the roof. The first thing the people knew who were sitting there drinking was that the rafters were ablaze. They ran to the door but there was no easy escape there, because of both the piled wood blocking the door and Egil guarding it. He killed them in the doorway and just outside. It was only moments before the main room flared up and caved in. Everyone else was inside and trapped, while Egil went back to the woods and rejoined his companions. They went to the ship together. Egil claimed as his private booty the treasure-chest he had taken, which turned out to be full of silver.
Thorolf and the others were relieved when Egil came back to the ship, and they left when morning broke. Aki and his sons were in Egil's party. They all sailed to Denmark later that summer and sat in ambush for merchant ships, robbing wherever they could.
The Norse also imported swords extensively from the Merovingian/Carolingian Empire, which was regarded at the time as being the centre of excellence in sword-smithing. This is why the style of "Viking" swords is almost identical to a Roman spatha - there's a direct line of descent there. The trade in Frankish swords being sold to Norse buyers was so pronounced that there were repeated laws made against selling swords to foreigners, but with apparently little success given the number of them we find in Scandinavia.
Now, of course the historical Norse viewed swords as deeply significant, mystical objects for displaying one's social status. Swords were often handed down in families and given names, and in some burials we even find that the sword has been "killed" by being bent or broken, demonstrating the deep bond between sword and owner. The sagas speak frequently of men wearing a sword even when going to sow crops, or keeping it by their bedside sleeping. But the fact that this precaution against grave-robbing needed to be taken also demonstrates the complex nature of this relationship, and that given human nature, the historical Norse were no less averse to using the old five finger discount when they could.
Personally I'm a big fan of the Sutton Hoo helm, although that also has massive eye holes.
Medieval armour had a few more shots to solve this problem, and given Halla has spent a lot of time around Gabriel and met some other knights, and the way armour styles would cross-pollinate historically (European plate was extremely popular in Japan for example), maybe she'd take some inspiration? Obviously constructing out of several pieces rather than plate, more along the lines of a Sutton Hoo helm, but we're studying the Knightly Armour this turn anyway.
I'm thinking of something like a Norse take on a hounskull bascinet or an armet, which can look quite birdlike as they have a distinct beak. One could imagine it looking really cool if Halla added decorations to emulate the raptorial profile of an eagle owl or bird of prey.
Some visual references from totally eclectic sources and time periods:
(With a rather cheap-looking butted mail aventail that would struggle to stop chopsticks, let alone a turn a blade, but you get the idea.)
This is actually a 19th century reproduction/show piece, but its vibes are perfect. Imagine this had a bastard child with the Sutton Hoo helmet, and this is what I imagine.
The 1500s were a special time.
Right now I have managed to misplace two weeks of my prescription after some disruption coming home from volunteering for charity at a music festival. Really hoping they did not go out with the rubbish collection yesterday morning by mistake. It really sucks and I feel for you man, hope you get it sorted out soon.
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
I had a couple Knightly Armor-related thoughts, as I was catching up.
The first is, I wonder if the particular nature of Knightly Armor cultivation might be related or parallel to Fylgjaskinn? Given they both involve armoring yourself in spirit.
The second is, if we still have that looted Knightly Armor, whether we could analyze it for the sake of improving Fortify? Specifically studying the joints of the armor, we could maybe figure out a way to knot the Fortify threads so that they form distinct, independently-mobile segmented plates rather than a single solid mass.
The first is, I wonder if the particular nature of Knightly Armor cultivation might be related or parallel to Fylgjaskinn? Given they both involve armoring yourself in spirit.
The second is, if we still have that looted Knightly Armor, whether we could analyze it for the sake of improving Fortify? Specifically studying the joints of the armor, we could maybe figure out a way to knot the Fortify threads so that they form distinct, independently-mobile segmented plates rather than a single solid mass.
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
- Pronouns
- He/They
I believe the convention may have been towards weapons that broke in battle, however I could be completely misremembering things
Oh yeah, a sword breaking in battle, there's a bad omen if ever there's one.
Also there definitely seems to be some sort of complex beliefs around bad juju (but maybe also magical power?) in taking weapons from graves, given the apparent lengths gone to prevent people from doing it. Makes me think of Hervor getting Tyrfing out of her father's barrow. This is also interesting when you think about it in light of that archaeological article about using bone-ash to make steel...
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Real world Norse attitudes could easily have differed, but in this quest specifically us needing to melt down weapons and armor before using them has been established very explicitly and repeatedly, for example, in reference to looting a fallen enemy's armor:
Now, that's not quite as harsh on weapons, and we've worked our way around it before (we kept Thievesbane on the basis that it was its former owner, a thief, who would have had issues since he's the one who took it from its original owner, and we as his killer would be sympatico with it). But it's definitely a thing.
Also, for the record:
This works perfectly well even with the rules as established in this quest. The prohibition is not on foreign-made weapons, it's on ones looted directly from enemies. Buying a sword somewhere else is fine, it's looting a sword that might cause issues (because it having failed to protect its former owner is bad luck and its allegiance might still be to them as well).
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- Location
- Many Places
That was… that's pretty fucked up
Given Fister's post just above, and the way that quote talks about weapons and armour which have "failed", I think this bad luck may actually primarily be around looting and re-purposing weapons which have broken in battle, or armour from dead men which was rent by weapons? Trophies taken from defeated foes which did not "fail" their owners in battle might not have the same connotations.
But worth checking.
It's pretty gnarly, yeah. Setting fire to buildings and then standing in the doorway with a spear is probably the most common tactic you see in the Sagas for using the element of surprise to kill groups of people, actually. (I think there might possibly be more sagas which have it happen at least once than those which don't?) A bit earlier in Egil's sagas, Harald Fairhair tries to do the exact same thing to Egil's uncle Thorolf, but since Thorolf and his men are familiar with this trick, they use beams to break down an entire wall of the burning building and charge out for a glorious last stand, rather than being massacred trying to come out of doorways.
Honestly if you think of the Sagas as being quite like Westerns, and here I mean mainly the gritty revisionist sort of Westerns like Unforgiven or the Dollars trilogy or Blood Meridian or films by the Coen brothers, then this is basically the equivalent of when you bushwhack someone with a rifle whilst hiding behind a rock. Most fights in the Sagas are uneven, and the more skilled warrior is the one who can arrange circumstances so that he has the advantages when it counts, and manages to slip away like a wily wolf when his enemies have the upper hand. Finding your enemy unawares is never an advantage to be squandered.
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- He/Him
Another relevant quote:
Basically, the logic in-universe seems to be that a weapon that failed its wielder by letting them get killed is generally unlucky. Armor even more so. If it was instead an intentional sabotage by the weapon (as was discussed and theorized with Thievesbane) then that might be fine if the weapon likes you more than it did them.
That does seem mostly true with dead foes though, now that I look back at it, so this specific sword might theoretically be fine. Though, really, it being possessed of its own will (which seems almost certain) means that the choice to use or not it has a lot more to do with whether we trust the spirit in question than it does anything else.
Note that we very much try to do this as much as possible, our opportunities have simply been limited. The most obvious example of actually doing it was going for Horra personally with an entire posse, with the plan being to kill his draugr before he even got there and then just wait for him to show. That's not quite how it worked out, but it was the plan.
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I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
- Pronouns
- He/They
I'm gonna say that, from this point on, Skippy's interpretation of my statement is the correct one. That is, if it breaks it's unlucky. This way, you get more loot!
For the bible instance, I'll say that Halla cleaved through it at some point in the fight
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Sweet. I'm always down for more loot. Weapons specifically need to be pretty special for us to prefer them over ones we craft ourselves (the sword maybe qualifies), but we can sell them for more than the raw iron value or give them to people as needed.
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I think we need to be very cautious in attempting to use the sword. the spirit there is rather certain to be hostile to us: if it was some holy spirit benevolent to the Christian helping him fight, it will certainly not like us. if it was an evil spirit for them trying to control the squire, well it still won't like us
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- He/Him
Well yes. I'm actually pretty sure we can't use it for that reason...I was purely noting that it's powerful and special enough that we might use it over a weapon of our own making if it were viable.
Oh definitely. We prepared really extensively for Horra, and even if reality has a way of taking best-laid plans and tossing them in the air, a good plan still means you're much better-equipped to land on your feet and keep going. If we'd brought less people, then I think there'd have been a lot more risk of some of our friends getting isolated by Threaded Men and killed.
I'd say our assault on the fort was textbook in that regard. We made sure we had the concentration of forces needed to attack it, and then came up with a sneaky plan to give ourselves an ace in the hole. Even when we encountered unexpected difficulties, we were able to adapt and pull through.
We should definitely be cautious and keep our wits about us, but let's try to judge after we've gotten all the information, that's all I'd say. If the spirit was using the squire as a tool for an end, then it may not mind entering into a relationship with a stronger warrior who is better able to meet its needs. The key thing is what those needs are and if they'd be acceptable to us, I think.
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Yeah, we've done our level best to stack the deck whenever we were on the offense and it was an option. Hopefully we'll get more chances to do so in the future.
I'm very dubious purely based on how it smelled. That smell does not bode well, I don't think. It smells of 'blackest night, bleakest cold' like Ginnungagap. That's not an indication it will be friendly or sympatico with Halla. And we should check, because that could be wrong. But I would plan on it not working.
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any thoughts on doing some shared smithing project with Sten? it could be a nice together time and we can probably learn a lot. plus the result is likely to be rather impressive.
we can ask his help for something we make for ourselves, and I can definitely see him agree. but I think an even better option is to do some shared gift. perhaps a weapon or armor for Drifa? from her father and aunt/trainer? or even some non combat object for Steinnar, or for Asva?
we can ask his help for something we make for ourselves, and I can definitely see him agree. but I think an even better option is to do some shared gift. perhaps a weapon or armor for Drifa? from her father and aunt/trainer? or even some non combat object for Steinnar, or for Asva?