You will have to refresh me a little, because apparently I'm out of the loop here, do the Steelfather start with normal cultivation and then stray, or do they first get the Steel/enemy hooked in their soul and only then they are allowed to know? do they go the normal route only with the Damocles sword over their soul or they have some weird advancement of their own?
'While most don't, a lot still do. Ironjaw, the Matron, Careful-Stepper, and many others all have odr. Rainmaker had it as well as all of the greatest warriors. At a certain point, you're forced to innovate or else you'll be rolled by the people who already have.'
It definitely was extremely blunt when we first unlocked it.
It became much less blunt when we figured out how to store it in fasts/pockets.
More sharpenings when we figure out how to use it correctly seem very reasonable.
You will have to refresh me a little, because apparently I'm out of the loop here, do the Steelfather start with normal cultivation and then stray, or do they first get the Steel/enemy hooked in their soul and only then they are allowed to know? do they go the normal route only with the Damocles sword over their soul or they have some weird advancement of their own?
Steelfathers, from what we know of them, are normal cultivators. I don't believe that whatever makes them a Steelfather is another cultivation path, actually, but rather some sort of transformation? Sort of like a permanent Shapecraft, I guess? Anyway, that's just my headcanon. What is known is that their normal cultivation is impacted, as they typically have Steelmasks (I think that's what they were called) who are people that don masks and act as an extension of a Steelfather's will to gain orthstirr for them. Imperial stated that at a Steelfather's level, most of them would have discovered odr cultivation, too.
One thing I'm really looking forward to in the later generations is rocking up to interact with immortal or otherwise long lived cultivators that we met in previous generations. Like imagine Gabriel having to deal with a random Norse person showing up every 30 to 40 years and treating him like a long lost uncle or something, especially if we never tell him about the whole Charred Soul reincarnation thing.
You will have to refresh me a little, because apparently I'm out of the loop here, do the Steelfather start with normal cultivation and then stray, or do they first get the Steel/enemy hooked in their soul and only then they are allowed to know? do they go the normal route only with the Damocles sword over their soul or they have some weird advancement of their own?
They're normal cultivators (or Odr cultivators) until they make a bargain with Steel, which is something that seems to onlly happen at very high levels of power.
It definitely was extremely blunt when we first unlocked it.
It became much less blunt when we figured out how to store it in fasts/pockets.
More sharpenings when we figure out how to use it correctly seem very reasonable.
Or it knows we want better prices and not angering our competitor and gives Halla ideas and estimates how well those ideas do on those axes.
Like I said, this seems possible and I'm not against asking how to achieve it. My point was in regards to why we hadn't been getting the bonus already.
Presumably, I'd imagine taking on the Curse of Steel means you can do Odr Cultivation safely. After all, if you're now undying, there's no longer any risk of exploding when you Open the Gate.
So why not all Steelfathers are Odr Cultivators when they become one, most eventually become one in the process of doing formerly risky experiments to keep up with their peers.
[X] Are there different uses for Frenzy beside predicting what my enemy will do in battle?
[X] Are there any Berserkr/Frenzy specific styles?
[X] How many shapecrafts do Berserkr usually get done?
[X] Do you know a good shapecrafter that I could visit?
[X] How much Frenzy do most Berserks have?
Presumably, I'd imagine taking on the Curse of Steel means you can do Odr Cultivation safely. After all, if you're now undying, there's no longer any risk of exploding when you Open the Gate.
Opening the Gate itself doesn't seem to be that big of a problem once you know, which they do if they are already on the path if what Deadman said was true and you take the curse at high levels, unless that change with future realms.
More likely is the Enemy will steer you away from the mines he planted as you can advance, with the implication that he will also steer you away from anything that threaten him/his interests.
Did we get any confirmation about the Enemy being completely behind Curse of Steel? or just coopting it.
Even if the Steelfather don't know about the Enemy himself, they will still see the Curse as an easier path, which if it indeed limit them the Enemy has a reason to encourage that perception.
The Enemy seems to consider the Curse of Steel key enough to its ambitions that it expended what must have been a colossal amount of its action budget to stop Blackhand from creating the Weapon. Whether they're behind it or just taking advantage of it, it certainly wants it to stay around.
Did we get any confirmation about the Enemy being completely behind Curse of Steel? or just coopting it.
Even if the Steelfather don't know about the Enemy himself, they will still see the Curse as an easier path, which if it indeed limit them the Enemy has a reason to encourage that perception.
Presumably, I'd imagine taking on the Curse of Steel means you can do Odr Cultivation safely. After all, if you're now undying, there's no longer any risk of exploding when you Open the Gate.
So why not all Steelfathers are Odr Cultivators when they become one, most eventually become one in the process of doing formerly risky experiments to keep up with their peers.
Right, I meant if he was behind teaching the Steelfathers the methods to incorporate Steel into their cultivation, should have clarified, but the answers you gave remain the same either way.
Speculation: to become a Steelfather you replace parts of your own body with Steel, quenched in your own blood. Possibly you have to make the prosthesis yourself. Possibly you have to make the Steel yourself.
Assuming the Finnish legend about the origin of Steel is at least partly right, could eitr be the (or a) venom added to iron to make Steel? Steel blocking bodily revival could be a diluted version of the "always true death" effect of eitr, though it wouldn't explain Steel's indestructiblity.
We need to really learn more about how other people "cultivate" with Odr. Not only to see if we can pick up any new tricks, but to find out how our own methods of True Norse Cultivation differentiate from what is currently known.
We need to really learn more about how other people "cultivate" with Odr. Not only to see if we can pick up any new tricks, but to find out how our own methods of True Norse Cultivation differentiate from what is currently known.
I don't think it does significantly differ. We may have figured out a few more things than some people (ie: some people may not have made a soulscape farm or planted magic plants, for example), but the basic procedure is likely the same all things considered. Swapping details with someone else who practices it would be interesting, if potentially wildly dangerous.
Speculation: to become a Steelfather you replace parts of your own body with Steel, quenched in your own blood. Possibly you have to make the prosthesis yourself. Possibly you have to make the Steel yourself.
Assuming the Finnish legend about the origin of Steel is at least partly right, could eitr be the (or a) venom added to iron to make Steel? Steel blocking bodily revival could be a diluted version of the "always true death" effect of eitr, though it wouldn't explain Steel's indestructiblity.
[X] Are there different uses for Frenzy beside predicting what my enemy will do in battle?
[X] Are there any Berserkr/Frenzy specific styles?
[X] How many shapecrafts do Berserkr usually get done?
[X] Do you know a good shapecrafter that I could visit?
[X] How much Frenzy do most Berserks have?
0~0~0
You clap your hands eagerly as Audrikr smiles fondly and rolls his eyes. He slips a ceramic flask free of his belt and pops the cork. Taking a swig, he offers the mead to you. Accepting the drink, you take the opportunity to collect your thoughts into one orderly, coherent mass.
The mead is oddly cold as it passes your lips and wets your throat. It doesn't take long for you to realize the reason—the clay used to make the flask is the same clay as in the hills in your property.
Hmm, very interesting.
Taking the ceramic container back, Audrikr recorks and secures the flask to his belt. With his drink fastened away, he leans an elbow on the table and gives you his full attention.
"First things first, Frenzy." You clear your throat as Audrikr nods, "How much Frenzy does your typical Berserk have?"
"Depends on a lot of stuff, really." Audrikr flips a hand from side to side as he talks, "But, in short, there are three 'grades' of Berserk. I," He presses a hand to his chest, "am what many would call a Second-Grade Berserk. That means that, if I were to strike out at someone without any Frenzy or other enhancements, I will hit them with full certainty. A First-Grade Berserk will only have about half certainty of hitting them while a Third-Grade Berserk will have full-and-a-half certainty of it."
"Is there anything beyond Third-Grade?"
Audrikr scrunches up his face as he shrugs, "Eh, sort of. I've heard rumors of Fourth-Grade but I dunno. At that point, your mind is so hyper-tuned towards violence that I don't think they'd be able to live with other people."
"Where do I stand?"
He leans back as he looks you up and down, a considering look in his eye. "I, myself, would put you at Second-Grade, but a lot of Berserks would scoff at you calling yourself a Berserk or even try to kill you over it."
You arch a brow and then the other. "Really? That seems like a rather extreme escalation."
"You haven't gone through the rituals or proper channels to become a Berserk, you see." He explains as wiggles a finger at you. "I don't know how you got Frenzy, but that's only the technical requirement. There's lots of other things too, like being able to use Berserkergang."
"Berserkergang?" Is this the martial style you've been theorizing about?
"A martial style that goes hand-in-hand with Frenzy." You grin as Audrikr confirms your thoughts. "And, before you ask, I can't teach it to you. You have to go through the rituals in order to get it, but even then," he sighs, "I'm not super certain that you'd have much of a use for it, given your combat style."
"What do you mean?" Your words have a defensive edge that has Audrikr raising his hands and splaying his fingers, showing off that he's unarmed.
"You're a smart lady, a technical fighter. Berserkergang isn't for that. It makes you significantly—two or even three times—stronger, tougher, quicker, and all-around deadlier. It makes you resistant or even immune to weapons, terrifies your enemies, and enhances your shapeshifting abilities."
But as Audrikr lists its virtues, you struggle to see why it wouldn't apply to you. Enhanced shapeshifting? That could be a boon of the Gods depending on the specifics!
"That sounds great!" You lean in, a frown on your face, "Does it have some terrible cost? Why wouldn't it work for me?"
"Because it robs you of your intelligence—so much so that you no longer can distinguish friend from foe." You wince as Audrikr continues, sitting back in your chair. "Not only that, but it is a temporary boost. Once it departs, it leaves you helpless and infirm, unaware of the world around you."
Your frown deepens as you listen, a sigh escaping your lips. "That... does dampen my enthusiasm."
"No kidding," Audrikr snorts. "I've seen lesser men, unprepared for the realities of Berserkergang, succumb to the madness entirely. They foam at the mouths, convulse on the floor, and then die—their souls ripped asunder by the chaos."
Something about that seems oddly familiar to you, but you can't quite put your finger on it. Regardless of the dismal topic, you've got other things to ask Audrikr.
Namely, "Are there any other uses for Frenzy other than just combat?"
"Loads!" Audrikr noticeably brightens up at the topic, "Poetry, crafting, talking to people. All things that require creativity."
"But," you frown as you think back, "I've done all those things and it didn't help?"
He taps the talf board. "You were using it here, weren't you?"
You hesitantly nod, unsure of the point, "Yeah?"
"And you didn't start using it immediately, right?"
Your eyes narrow, "Where are you going with this?"
"In combat, you're instantly zeroed in. Soon as iron is stripped naked, you're in the zone and fully focused, right?" He doesn't wait for you to nod or otherwise confirm, simply forging ahead regardless, "If you want to use Frenzy on something, you need to give it your entire focus. You can't be thinking of what you're gonna have for dinner or if somebody is mad at something you said, you have to be entirely within the moment."
That last tafl game... You weren't thinking of your children or your husband. You weren't worried about the coming winter or the current famine. You weren't considering the measures both desperate and not you might have to take to survive.
All you had was the game. The only thing in your mind was the movement of silver-forged pieces across the well-polished board.
Silence falls as you consider how to best utilize that. You've never had much difficulty living in the moment, in fact sometimes it feels like you struggle with thinking of the future or the past. But that natural tendency isn't enough, is it?
This will take some work. In the meantime, you have a final two questions. "How much shapecrafting does your typical Berserk have and do you know a good, reliable shapecrafter in the area or nearby?"
"There's Hirkir Horrasson, but you probably don't trust him all that much—for good reason. The closest shapecrafter besides him, that I know of, is Limpwrist over in Jurgdby. He's the one that did my shapecrafting," Audrikr taps his arm as he leans back in his chair. "As for how much? Well, a First-Grade Berserk will have had at least one done, a Second-Grade will have two, and a Third will have a third. After that, it depends entirely on the Berserk in question."
With your questions asked and answered, you thank Audrikr for his time. He waves off the thanks, saying to think nothing of it. As he rises to his feet and returns to his post, you return the tafl board to your fylgja and move on with your day.
What do you do next?
[ ] Talk to Gary Tuskpuncher and perhaps talk about trading
[ ] Have another chat with the Seeress
[ ] Go talk to Eric and see what's going on with the Kyrsvikingar
[ ] Socialize with the Headsman's felag
[ ] It's time to go home
0~0~0
AN: I think this is going to have some good theory fodder ;P
I mean if we assume that Norse cosmology existing postdates the formation of Norse culture and mythology that is a problem. And that interpretation is certainly supported by IF's comments on cultivation systems arising from cultures rather than the other way around.
At the same time all these different cultures still produce cultivators. Maybe Norse Steel is only the same as Chinese Steel to the same extent that a Norse cultivator is to a Chinese Cultivator. Maybe everybody is independently developing super cursed indestructible metal through their different cultures' evil blacksmithing.
Sounds like what happens if someone Opens the Gate and then fails to close it in time, yeah. Those symptoms resemble what happened to Halla the first time she did it, just that she closed it again in time thanks to Hallr.
It looks like Berserkergang then is a ritual that's all about letting you go on autopilot while the Gate is open, and the question is if you can pull yourself out of it in time before you're completely depleted. But if you're not properly prepared, your soul explodes. Presumably, the fact it's on autopilot means that you don't have the mental capacity to spare thinking about things other than surviving another minute.
I suspect that part of the advantages of being a stronger Odr Cultivator is being able to use Berserkergang without shutting your brain off entirely. Remember after all that most people who acquire Frenzy in this day and age aren't actually Odr Cultivators, they got Frenzy artificially, and little to no control over the Gate. Looks though that Hookfingers was a peak Third Class Berserk as well, which is pretty terrifying.
[X] Talk to Gary Tuskpuncher and perhaps talk about trading
We need to do this one next for the trading plans. Then we decide between the Felag and the Seeress (with the other one handled later).
And yeah, it sounds like Berserkergang definitely uses Odr in some way...dunno exactly how. But then, we don't know how Berserks get their Frenzy either...it's Odr-based but seems to not be Hugr Infusion per se.
I mean if we assume that Norse cosmology existing postdates the formation of Norse culture and mythology that is a problem. And that interpretation is certainly supported by IF's comments on cultivation systems arising from cultures rather than the other way around.
At the same time all these different cultures still produce cultivators. Maybe Norse Steel is only the same as Chinese Steel to the same extent that a Norse cultivator is to a Chinese Cultivator. Maybe everybody is independently developing super cursed indestructible metal through their different cultures' evil blacksmithing.
Maybe Steel is less a discrete material and more a metaphysical idea of a Greater Material that has been cursed. That would let other cultures create Steel with their own materials and methods, with their own Great Poisons replacing Eitr in the process if its involved at all. For example, maybe the Greeks used Hydra venom in their Steel, if they used Steel at all before the Sea People destroyed the Greek cultivation system.
[X] Talk to Gary Tuskpuncher and perhaps talk about trading
We need to do this one next for the trading plans. Then we decide between the Felag and the Seeress (with the other one handled later).
And yeah, it sounds like Berserkergang definitely uses Odr in some way...dunno exactly how. But then, we don't know how Berserks get their Frenzy either...it's Odr-based but seems to not be Hugr Infusion per se.
Wasn't it mentioned that Shapecrafters track down monsters and extract the Frenzy from them, putting them into others?
That being said, yeah, looks like a Shapecrafter can give you some Frenzy and another Shapeshift Slot (Probably a permanent one) every time they do the operation. Three is generally considered the limit though before someone loses control. There's probably a soft cap at 9 Frenzy before it's no longer possible to fully suppress it no matter what tricks you're doing, at least not without having a stronger Foundation to begin with. I do suspect that Berserkergang's uncontrollable state is something that can be mitigated with a sufficiently strong Cultivator, but you need to be an Odr Cultivator to get there in the first place, probably at least Realm 2 or 3, and it'll definitely have that period of weakness afterwards as the Price for using it. It's the Sicko Mode you unleash when your back is against the wall, not something you trigger every throwdown.
[X] Talk to Gary Tuskpuncher and perhaps talk about trading
