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NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

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It will be very hard to deal with Jerasmus. He's very powerful and very wise.

Of course he could have just been overestimating Gabriel.
 
Jerasmus actually seemed to care about Gabriel, though? Like, he prostrated himself and everything so that we would let Gabriel live instead or having him killed when he hit us. Gabriel killing us in a fit of rage and then going on to wreak a large part of the Hading would definitely lead to an angry Steinarr, Abjorn, Sten, etc. ganking him.
 
Skippy said:
It might be that Realising a piece of armour is a necessary precondition for whatever this is, or it might be that they actually represent different approaches entirely. We'll probably have to mess around and find out (or see if the Journal Entry has any clues...).
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Realising + ??? (from true Norse cultivation) = Norse equivalent of knightly armor is my assumption.
There may be something closer to knights knightly armor if we stick closer to christians ideas of how to do it... but do we even want that?
Constenanto said:
I don't think the latter would work, at least not without tinkering because we've been explicitly told that the way a Realized item grows is by consuming different substances. Not to mention that actually making it so that the item is the one that is the subject of the stories rather than the person using them sounds like more trouble than it's worth. I do think that Realization is apart of the puzzle, but I doubt Realization alone is enough.
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Have we had confirmation that that is the (one and only) way for it to grow?
Or was it a "that is the most well known special thing about Realized items"?

And the armor could be a character in its owners stories.
Like we can dedicate kills to items with Orth pools for them to get more Orth, just ... bigger.

And remember: All men die.
If we put part of our Orth pool gain into our weapon, we can inherit that to our next character.
Constenanto said:
It would be cool if we could somehow intertwine/bond one a human to a Realized item, and make it so it grows in tandem with the human, rather than eating new substances (as in, as the user's legend grows and they get stronger, the item also gets stronger). The item would be able to enhance/supplement the human in turn.

Also, I wonder if a part of the puzzle might be teaching the Realized object to actually cultivate orthstirr like a cultivator, rather than just storing it? Replacing their ability to consume substances might not be necessary.
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The bonding is exactly the vibe that I was thinking of in addition to T9 ing it.
Hence the "using blood of the future wearer to quench it".
And the Aspect weaving if the realized weapon has them. (that would also fit you "teaching the Realized object to actually cultivate Orthstirr like a cultivator).
And we could try feeding the Realized item Odr, spirits seem to like that.

Constenanto said:
Jerasmus actually seemed to care about Gabriel, though? Like, he prostrated himself and everything so that we would let Gabriel live instead or having him killed when he hit us. Gabriel killing us in a fit of rage and then going on to wreak a large part of the Hading would definitely lead to an angry Steinarr, Abjorn, Sten, etc. ganking him.
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To be more paranoid than I am...
If he sees in us a potential he doesn't want realized unless we are christian then sacrificing Gabriel to kill us could make sense if he gave up converting us.
But that is getting into tinfoilhat territory.
 
I'm mostly wary of Jerasmus because he's very powerful, very wise, and very insightful, which together makes him extremely dangerous.

He seems to be a True Christian Cultivator. If such a thing exists.

Personally I think he overestimated Gabriel, but we also know he is playing a game for which we don't even know the rules. Which sucks, because it means we'll learn that we made several blunders in that game a few dozen updates down the road and it will be a real feelsbad moment.
Toboe said:
If he sees in us a potential he doesn't want realized unless we are christian then sacrificing Gabriel to kill us could make sense if he gave up converting us.
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Norsemen don't die when killed, and Jerasmus should know that.
 
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Shard said:
Personally I think he overestimated Gabriel, but we also know he is playing a game for which we don't even know the rules.
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The more likely option.
Shard said:
Norsemen don't die when killed, and Jerasmus should know that.
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Don't necessarily die.
And a body can be corrupted by steel to be useless for resurrection. If we assumed that evil Jerasmus, he could have expected the Blackfire to spoil the body. If he know about regrowing bodies from the backup hair strands a family has... Blackfire sounds like it could burn down the house with the backup hair.
Still too much assumption of malicousness for my taste.
 
Shard said:
Norsemen don't die when killed, and Jerasmus should know that.
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All Norse do still have a fated day, and he may be running on the logic that its just a low chance of dying killing you, not that you are guaranteed to die on a particular day, but no-one knows when. As to the outside observer, having a low chance of any particular death perma-kill you vs something on this specific day will kill you, it doesn't matter what, something will, but its only a specific 3 gods that know that day and they aren't talking, both of those are the same. If he is running on low chance of perma-kill out of hope then if you never get killed, that chance can't happen.
 
Toboe said:
Don't necessarily die.
And a body can be corrupted by steel to be useless for resurrection. If we assumed that evil Jerasmus, he could have expected the Blackfire to spoil the body. If he know about regrowing bodies from the backup hair strands a family has... Blackfire sounds like it could burn down the house with the backup hair.
Still too much assumption of malicousness for my taste.
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AeonIlluminate said:
All Norse do still have a fated day, and he may be running on the logic that its just a low chance of dying killing you, not that you are guaranteed to die on a particular day, but no-one knows when. As to the outside observer, having a low chance of any particular death perma-kill you vs something on this specific day will kill you, it doesn't matter what, something will, but its only a specific 3 gods that know that day and they aren't talking, both of those are the same. If he is running on low chance of perma-kill out of hope then if you never get killed, that chance can't happen.
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For me it's just not a Jerasmus kind of thing to do, because it doesn't serve his ultimate objectives. He doesn't gain anything from kill Halla and burning Gabriel, because the rules of the game he plays simply doesn't operate on those terms. Not unless he can see Charred Soul anyway, which I don't think he can.
 
Toboe said:
Have we had confirmation that that is the (one and only) way for it to grow?
Or was it a "that is the most well known special thing about Realized items"?

And the armor could be a character in its owners stories.
Like we can dedicate kills to items with Orth pools for them to get more Orth, just ... bigger.

And remember: All men die.
If we put part of our Orth pool gain into our weapon, we can inherit that to our next character.
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I mean, no, but there's nothing that indicates that they'd grow via orthstirr cultivation, either? Imperial has said that dwarves taught humans smithing, which means that Realization came from them to begin with. And all evidence points to the fact that dwarves do not cultivate orthstirr. Which means that Realization most likely doesn't mean that items suddenly gain the ability to cultivate orthstirr nor is it their main way of growth.

Now, clearly, humans have found some way of making it so items can hold orthstirr, so then learning to properly cultivate isn't out of the question. But I doubt that they've entirely replaced what is likely the main way of a Realized weapons growth. I never said that a Realized weapon couldn't cultivate the same way a human could... just that they wouldn't be able to do so anywhere near efficiently as a human, and that they would primarily grow via consumption of other substances.
 
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I think a Realized Item should be able to gain Orthsirr. Fully sapient Norse beings should be able to, in general.
 
Shard said:
I think a Realized Item should be able to gain Orthsirr. Fully sapient Norse beings should be able to, in general.
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Non-Realized Items whose smithing involved Odr are already able to gain Orth with their lesser spirit.
See our Atgeir, our armor.

Constenanto said:
Yes, I did say this. My point was that we'd need to actually do some research/work for it to be efficient.
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Even if it is less efficient than a person doing it directly, it could still be efficient when observed over multiple human generations.
 
Is Sagaseeker kind of like our Thrall?

If you own a Thrall can you use their Orthsirr as your own?
 
Toboe said:
Even if it is less efficient than a person doing it directly, it could still be efficient when observed over multiple human generations.
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Uh, okay? I was never advocating against never teaching a Realized item to cultivate? And it taking lifetimes whereas a human only needs one is horribly inefficient. Like, we'd want to improve that ASAP.

I wonder if it'd possible to combine a Realized armour's cultivation to a human's? Rather than two separate cultivations, it's just one harmonious whole? Not sure if that'd be weaker or stronger in the long run though.
 
Constenanto said:
Uh, okay? I was never advocating against never teaching a Realized item to cultivate? And it taking lifetimes whereas a human only needs one is horribly inefficient. Like, we'd want to improve that ASAP.

I wonder if it'd possible to combine a Realized armour's cultivation to a human's? Rather than two separate cultivations, it's just one harmonious whole? Not sure if that'd be weaker or stronger in the long run though.
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What I am getting at: The weapon doesn't reset when its wielder dies.
THAT is a form of efficiency in itself. Unless we assume we are gonna win in 1 generation.
 
Toboe said:
What I am getting at: The weapon doesn't reset when its wielder dies.
THAT is a form of efficiency in itself. Unless we assume we are gonna win in 1 generation.
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We're not, but even then, at high level fights it'd be useless, because we'd far outpace it? Our growth is only going to get faster as we die due to more information learned. Not to mention that we'll presumably start with characters who are already decently strong later down the line, rather than a completely new slate like we did with Halla.
 
I think it should be possible for a Realized Object to have an entire soulscape, complete with Odr Cultivation and all.

They may even have their own Hamr/Hugr/Fylgjur equivalents. Can you cast the ritual of the Seeing Eye on a Realized Object?

It's possible that even a Realized Object cannot earn (but can gain) Orthsirr, however. The logic behind this would be that Realized Objects are kind of like Steelfathers (or more accurately the other way around).
 
Constenanto said:
We're not, but even then, at high level fights it'd be useless, because we'd far outpace it? Our growth is only going to get faster as we die due to more information learned. Not to mention that we'll presumably start with characters who are already decently strong later down the line, rather than a completely new slate like we did with Halla.
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And then our Orth resets and the "lagging behind" weapon becomes "awesome" until we caught up with its Orth. (which pushes it further for the next generation)
 
Toboe said:
And then our Orth resets and the "lagging behind" weapon becomes "awesome" until we caught up with its Orth. (which pushes it further for the next generation)
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That's under the assumption our children aren't stronger than the weapon by the time we take over them... and I don't see why they wouldn't be? As we get stronger, we're going to make our children stronger. Hell, I imagine we'll initiate them into odr on one character eventually (definitely not on Halla or whoever comes next). At that point, why use it? There's literally no reason to not improve it, and I don't see why you're so against it?
 
Constenanto said:
That's under the assumption our children aren't stronger than the weapon by the time we take over them... and I don't see why they wouldn't be? As we get stronger, we're going to make our children stronger. Hell, I imagine we'll initiate them into odr on one character eventually (definitely not on Halla or whoever comes next). At that point, why use it? There's literally no reason to not improve it, and I don't see why you're so against it?
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Who is arguing against improving the weapon?
What I'm saying is that it being capable of Orth cultivation would be a plus, even if it is somewhat less efficient at it than a human.
 
I'm doubtful that Jerasmus is intentionally setting Gabriel up for failure. He might be allowing him to make his own mistakes, though.

I think 'Nordic Armor' in the sense of it being a reflection of our Aspects is probably a separate and mutually exclusive option with Realized armor, but I could be wrong.
 
I think Jerasmus is in a lot of ways is a good person and is playing the long term conversion game. So he's not going to be a problem for Halla, he's going to be a problem two or three generations down the line.
 
I honestly like the guy even if at times I know he's working off his own agenda. I don't think he's evil either but he's definitely devout so if anything there is a risk of proselytizing eventually yeah.

 
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