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May The Invisible Hand Be With You - (Star Wars CK2-Style Quest)

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Akasha said:
I'm pretty sure that particular issue, in the case of the modern Jedi, was caused by the Senate and/or the Republic. If I recall correctly, the Senate forbade the Jedi from having positions of power and leadership, because they feared the whole Jedi Lord thing, and they sabotaged the Jedi's efforts to do anything about it. As generations went by and the Jedi failed to regain that power, as the Senate became more and more corrupt and self-focused, the Jedi gave up, because they made no progress, and were not willing to do what every Sith has tried in the past - that being starting a war for nothing but power. So, as they had no positions of power, and could own no personal wealth, they had no reason to keep their leadership and stewardship skills up to scratch. Instead, they were used as peacekeepers, agents, healers, diplomats and warriors. Those things, they still excelled at.

Then Palpatine got some scraps of power and proved once again why Sith are sick, by orchestrating a war, sabotaging any efforts to stop it peacefully, and then pushing the nearly completely blindsided Jedi into positions of power and leadership. Some time after they finally gave up on the two skills they'd need to do the job effectively. And he did it knowingly, specifically to cripple the Order and make it look incompetent. Well, if I specialised in healing and personal combat, and was suddenly forced to lead fleets and armies in a galactic war, I'd fuck up as well.

Hell, for all we know, the Jedi's canon agreement to do so may have actually been not only a seeming necessity to prevent the Order from losing much of their credibility, but also an attempt to reconnect with the galaxy, now that they got a perfect opening.
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The Jedi Council agreed to it. The Ruusan Reformation happened after multiple centuries of Jedi Supreme Chancellors, and then Vallorum took power.
The Republic did very little to sabotage the Jedi's inner workings, which is the primary point I was making.

The Council being passive is a constant and recurring theme in the Republic's History, it happened in Revan's time, the survivors got even more passive in Meetra's Exile, the Ruusan Reformation Council were passive, and the Prequel Council vacillated between 'very passive' and 'overthrow the Chancellor...What do you mean he is a Sith?'
 
lordchaos99 said:
The Jedi Council agreed to it. The Ruusan Reformation happened after multiple centuries of Jedi Supreme Chancellors, and then Vallorum took power.
The Republic did very little to sabotage the Jedi's inner workings, which is the primary point I was making.

The Council being passive is a constant and recurring theme in the Republic's History, it happened in Revan's time, the survivors got even more passive in Meetra's Exile, the Ruusan Reformation Council were passive, and the Prequel Council vacillated between 'very passive' and 'overthrow the Chancellor...What do you mean he is a Sith?'
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Of course they agreed to it!
All of their proactive members have just been butchered by the Sith!
If the only members of your organization that remain alive are the ones whose passive behaviour saved their lives(and the entire Jedi culture), they will make passive decisions. From their perspective, passive behaviour WORKED.

The same thing happened in all the cases you mentioned. The active ones tried to act. The Sith butchered them. The passive minority remained. The passive minority made passive decisions, because mutilated corpses kinda don't have much say in those.

It would take time for new Jedi to join the Council and curb the passive tendencies. By then, the Jedi would have already lost the power they once held in the Republic, and without starting a revolution, they had no way to regain it.

Hell, that action you mentioned, with Mace Windu being so trigger-happy with arresting the Chancellor, shows that there were very influential members on the Council who were very much active. Yoda is another example. The Grandmaster of the Jedi Council, himself.

You are blaming people for the actions of their predecessors, when they are clearly different.

Edit: All of this merely proves that Sith are evil, and the source of all the trouble in the galaxy. All of those 'stupid decisions' were made by the Jedi during, or immediately after, some Sith commited mass murder on them, and tried to erase them from existence. And probably the Republic with them. Without the Sith constantly fucking everything up, the passive minority wouldn't constantly be proven right when they remained the only ones alive after the dust settled down.
 
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azereath said:
unless f course it turns out Ciaran is the mother reincarnated. which would explain how she heard the message, got passed the barrier managed to hid from the son, etc etc
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I was thinking it was more along the lines of her possessing our parent from Silas's side of the family while said child was with her father. Since he was a smuggler by trade, I wouldn't be surprised if he passed through the Maw in his job. Afterwords, she lied dormant inside our parent until our inception, at which point she transferred herself into our still developing body, providing her with her own body instead of merely relying upon host bodies.
 
Yes. I am blaming people for the actions of their predecessors. BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T CHANGED THEIR COURSE OF ACTION.

The Jedi Council System has been shown to NOT work.
Oh, and also the Council didn't just agree to the restrictions because the Jedi Lords died, because not all of them did. It was political, because the Council had been steadily losing influence as the Force Sensitive Dynasties became more temporal and less reliant on the Council and Temples. By removing that option, the remaining Lords needed to step underneath the Council's aegis and step into line.
 
lordchaos99 said:
Yes. I am blaming people for the actions of their predecessors. BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T CHANGED THEIR COURSE OF ACTION.

The Jedi Council System has been shown to NOT work.
Oh, and also the Council didn't just agree to the restrictions because the Jedi Lords died, because not all of them did. It was political, because the Council had been steadily losing influence as the Force Sensitive Dynasties became more temporal and less reliant on the Council and Temples. By removing that option, the remaining Lords needed to step underneath the Council's aegis and step into line.
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Oh, that's just rich. You're blaming the Jedi for 'not changing their ways', even though Mace Windu's eagerness to arrest the Chancellor and Yoda's attempt to ASSASSINATE him seems to prove you wrong, yet you have no problems with every single generation of Sith in the past 4000 years doing the exact same thing every single time: starting wars and genocide just to exterminate the Jedi, raze the Republic, and gain power.

Besides, you're blaming the passive JEDI COUNCIL for the active JEDI LORDS going out to fight the evul brotherhood of baby-eating darkness and edge, because, according to you, it's the Jedi's fault that the active ones had the council shield them from the political shitstorm they were about to face, due to the (necessary) PROACTIVE response from them. A political shitstorm that would've come from the Republic, since that's where the Jedi Lords had power. So, yeah. Political pressure from the Republic. Exactly as I wrote a while ago.
Your own example proves you wrong. I will repeat myself once again. The Jedi have shown TIME AND TIME AGAIN that they were very much active. Countless Jedi fought in the Mandalorian Wars. Countless Jedi fought on Ruusan. Countless Jedi fought against Darth Vitiate and his Sith Empire. Countless Jedi fought in other assorted conflicts. Hell, countless Jedi fought in the Clone Wars, even though they were completely unsuited for it and untrained. It's not their fault that the Sith slaughtered them every single time, and left only the few passive ones, who had nobody to contest their decisions.

If those decisions are your problem, the source of the issue is not the Jedi Order, but the SITH, who, as if by fate, constantly end up arranging situations that result in such choices being made, simply for power and the lulz.
 
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Huh? Fuck the Sith...Did you not see my other post?

I am blaming the Council. Not the average Jedi Knight.


lordchaos99 said:
Sith < Jedi Council < Jedi Lords < Average Knight outside of jedi politics < A balanced and conclusive philosophy that deals with the Problem Of Evil without censorship
Jedi Philosophy is TERRIBLE at statesmanship, their Councils inevitably fall into indolence and sloth even if their Knights are active and diplomatic, this inevitably leads to the Knights who refuse to become slothful not being promoted into the Council which only exacerbates the issue (since only the faux-wise 'Patient' Knights become Councilmembers which leads them to be more slothful and patient). Thus the Council and Knights have a vastly different culture, thus Knights break away to try and Solve Things.
You see it in Revan, with the Mando Wars. You see it in Dooku, with politics and a corrupt Senate.

A Jedi is an agent, a culture, and are charismatic enough to be Puppets, but NEVER a Leader.
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I would appreciate it if you didn't ignore my main point.
 
Akasha said:
Oh, that's just rich. You're blaming the Jedi for 'not changing their ways', even though Mace Windu's eagerness to arrest the Chancellor and Yoda's attempt to ASSASSINATE him seems to prove you wrong, yet you have no problems with every single generation of Sith in the past 4000 years doing the exact same thing every single time: starting wars and genocide just to exterminate the Jedi, raze the Republic, and gain power.

Besides, you're blaming the passive JEDI COUNCIL for the active JEDI LORDS going out to fight the evul brotherhood of baby-eating darkness and edge, because, according to you, it's the Jedi's fault that the active ones had the council shield them from the political shitstorm they were about to face, due to the (necessary) PROACTIVE response from them. A political shitstorm that would've come from the Republic, since that's where the Jedi Lords had power. So, yeah. Political pressure from the Republic. Exactly as I wrote a while ago.
Your own example proves you wrong. I will repeat myself once again. The Jedi have shown TIME AND TIME AGAIN that they were very much active. Countless Jedi fought in the Mandalorian Wars. Countless Jedi fought on Ruusan. Countless Jedi fought against Darth Vitiate and his Sith Empire. Countless Jedi fought in other assorted conflicts. Hell, countless Jedi fought in the Clone Wars, even though they were completely unsuited for it and untrained. It's not their fault that the Sith slaughtered them every single time, and left only the few passive ones, who had nobody to contest their decisions.

If those decisions are your problem, the source of the issue is not the Jedi Order, but the SITH, who, as if by fate, constantly end up arranging situations that result in such choices being made, simply for power and the lulz.
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all this salt. wow
 
Alright this is as far as I'm letting this go. @Akasha, @lordchaos99, drop this now. This argument is contributing nothing at this point and it seems like you're both overly angry - especially you, Akasha.

I am cool with legit debates, but this is turning into a shouting match that's just annoying the rest of the thread. Chill.
 
OK some things:

1. This is Cool! You rock @Dr. Snark !
2. And here my hopes to derail the idiotic action of the Ones (or are they Celestials?) is being crushed. Srsly even one question to the 3 might alter their actions (" .... so tell us, where is the Mother? ")

3. The invisitext, I really start to get the feeling it's from Abeloth:
 
Renars said:
OK some things:

1. This is Cool! You rock @Dr. Snark !
2. And here my hopes to derail the idiotic action of the Ones (or are they Celestials?) is being crushed. Srsly even one question to the 3 might alter their actions (" .... so tell us, where is the Mother? ")

3. The invisitext, I really start to get the feeling it's from Abeloth:
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wow. i wonder if we could make her some what sane? (i know we cant, but she's such a sad, lonely women. it's sad.)
 
dredloki said:
wow. i wonder if we could make her some what sane? (i know we cant, but she's such a sad, lonely women. it's sad.)
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Hence why I wanted for Ciaran to at least mention it. Yes, it's OOC, knowledge, but Ciaran is good with info and details, and here's one:

Father, Daughter, Son. logical conclusion? someones missing, why? Source of conflict? or something else?
 
Now I'm picturing Ciaran saying one of the few ways that would get the Son and Daughter to at least temporarily stop trying to kill each other, if not for the expected reasons; 'What would your mother say if she could see you two right now!?'
 
Karugus said:
Now I'm picturing Ciaran saying one of the few ways that would get the Son and Daughter to at least temporarily stop trying to kill each other, if not for the expected reasons; 'What would your mother say if she could see you two right now!?'
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Okay, that's too good, that's going into my omake.
 
Karugus said:
Now I'm picturing Ciaran saying one of the few ways that would get the Son and Daughter to at least temporarily stop trying to kill each other, if not for the expected reasons; 'What would your mother say if she could see you two right now!?'
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this break's the god like being's.(i honestly think they would break down in tear's, or at least feel very shameful )
 
The Mother is a cosmic horror imprisoned by joint effort of the Son and the Daughter. So, yeah, when the demigod dark-sider agrees with the demigoddess light-sider on something...that something is kinda a big deal. The Mother is literally hundreds of thousands of years old, strong in both sides of the Force, immortal*, capable of inducing psychosis without being detectably present, with a primary goal is the total destruction of all civilization. Oh yeah, did I mention she's a shapeshifter?

*Mortis dagger excepted

So, uh, yeah. The Mother is someone we never ever want to see or hear, in a "there goes the galaxy" sort of sense.
 
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Just wondering, did we ever do anything about the lava crystal? Is it still just hanging around in our inventory or did we do something off screen with it?
 
That lightsaber omake is there, but it's still not canon (yet?)...
 
The Dark Side and the Sith are evil, the Light Side and the Jedi are good. That is the crux of star wars, how it always was in all the canon media. The EU forgets this often and it is wrong for doing so. Same goes for fans.
 
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