Silently Watches
Professional Stalker
- Location
- Right behind you
Nope. I've already given you all the hints you're going to get about this.
Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)
- Thread starter Silently Watches
- Start date
- Location
- Buffalo, NY, USA
Question:
My understanding on Nanoha-style magic is it essentially breaks down to the correct mathematical equations with an amount of mana shunted through them by the mage to generate an effect.
Devices simply allow the mage to shunt most of the math off of themselves, allowing them to focus more on providing power rather than doing the necessary mental math.
If this is true, and we have both devices capable of holding all the math of a spell, and other devices capable of outputting mana... Why can't we hook a device up to a mana generator and have it cast spells, since it has the necessary components of both the math and the mana? Am I missing something in my understanding of Nanoha-style magic (possible, given I haven't seen the show)?
My understanding on Nanoha-style magic is it essentially breaks down to the correct mathematical equations with an amount of mana shunted through them by the mage to generate an effect.
Devices simply allow the mage to shunt most of the math off of themselves, allowing them to focus more on providing power rather than doing the necessary mental math.
If this is true, and we have both devices capable of holding all the math of a spell, and other devices capable of outputting mana... Why can't we hook a device up to a mana generator and have it cast spells, since it has the necessary components of both the math and the mana? Am I missing something in my understanding of Nanoha-style magic (possible, given I haven't seen the show)?
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
That's what you call 'starship-grade weaponry'.
Seriously, that's roughly, some differences mind you, how weapons that are larger than a Mage can carry work.
Article: アルカンシェル – Arc-en-Ciel
(A's DVD6)
A magic cannon equipped to the Administration Bureau's larger warships.
Boasting the highest destructive power within the Administration Bureau's naval armory, use of the Arc-en-Ciel is only allowed in certain conditions or against certain targets, and only when specific requirements are fulfilled. The projectile has nearly no destructive power itself; instead, a short time after impact, a spatial distortion and a subsequent annihilating reaction is generated. As the area of effect is even greater than the maximum firing range, withdrawing to a safe location after firing by Transferring is an absolute must.
Capital ship weaponry.
Mages are more efficient at smaller scales, but thats basically an Anti City weapon.
Not usable in atmosphere without massive collateral.
Range is orbit to ground.
Last edited:
Tassadar
The Overlord of Cakes & Toucans!
That is not a standard capital ship weapon.
It the equal of using a nuclear weapon.
- Location
- Ural, Russia, Earth
Well, in my understanding, it's because Linker Core, organ that let mage be mage.
It's not just mana generator, it's also a multi tool that take raw mana and turn it into anything mage want.
Look at Tim's skill tree:
He can build mana generator and he can build mana-powered tools (jetpacks, shield-generators, weapons), but each of that tools has exactly one function. Arc-en-Ciel too has only one function. It's super-cannon, nothing more, it cannot propel the ship or protect it.
Meanwhile Taylor's Linker Core let her cast Flight, Barrier Jacket and shooting spells simultaneously.
Apparently, Linker Core is the only such a multi tool known to TSAB and its predecessors.
Last edited:
- Location
- Budapest, Hungary
MGLN has autonomous magical wepons, who work like that. (Robots in Graden of Time, Gadget Drones, Raptors)
- Location
- Buffalo, NY, USA
By that explanation, it should be simple to have a device with the code for something like Ring Bind hooked up to a mana generator, giving a non-magical person the ability to "cast" Ring Bind (think something like a stun baton that binds instead of shocking), since it's a nice single-use device.
It seems like that's something that doesn't work though...why?
MGLN?
Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha. The abbreviation/name of the series.
- Location
- Ural, Russia, Earth
Silently Watches
Professional Stalker
- Location
- Right behind you
The simple answer can be found right here.
With the exception of the autonomous robots, which have an AI guiding them, the non-Device tech we see is single, simple function. A laser, a thruster, a shield. There is no adaptability to them. Build a baton that creates a bind, and it's going to create a bind right where it hits. Great if you smack someone in the wrist, not so great if you hit them in the chest or the head or most places on the body. And it will likely create the bind at a certain angle relative to the baton because you can't adjust the math on the fly like mages do when they cast spells. That lack of situational adaptability is why I'm not letting you do something like this.
DonLyn
Verified Soulless Bureaucrat
So... Can he build light-sabers, then? No adaptability needed for the flare blade spell besides an on/off switch.
Speaking of things Shipwright might build: Can he do mechadendrites?
Or a scanner that spams a Wide Area Search for people without a Privateer badge/ other means of identification and emits an alert when it finds someone?
Or a Stargate staff weapon that shoots non-lethal flare bolts in a straight line?
A recursion field emitter would be awesome as well. With off -site power it might replace the 4 mages needed to trap an Endbringer, provided they could be lured in.
Note that the Garden of Time bots are running off Precia's base reactor and Gadget Drones are powered by minor archeotech relics.
Personal scale power generation seems to be inferior to even a modest mage's Linker Core
Last edited:
- Location
- Buffalo, NY, USA
So it would work if an AI core was included in the mix?
It might make it a bit impractical size-wise, but if most of the components (AI core + Mana Generator) are built into a power suit...
And it opens the door to all sorts of fun things, different devices for different spell effects, each only capable of working with one of Tim's power suits or a mage (as a VERY limited storage device)... The Privateers able to alter their load-out to suit the expected situation when deploying, kinda a poor-man's Kid Win modular specialty.
Though I admit there's humor to be had in tapping them on the mouth with a bind-stick (as you described) if they won't shut up, or are doing a Skidmark impersonation.
Finally, some discussion on exploring the tinkering part of Tim's build! It's probably too late to get anything cool built this vote, but some good ideas for foundation for the next vote's builds.
Lightsaber will probably be easier just using hard-light projections (which we'll gain after Mass Weapons is unlocked), though a Flare Blade version would definitely have some nice advantages, and it would be easy to put a simple switch on it to alternate between lethal and stun settings...
Please keep the same mindset when we finally come across some TinkerTech, and have a chance to Digital Blueprint it (we should be able to find alternate applications for any TinkerTech concepts we blueprint, such as being able to create temporal fields in a manner similar to Temporal Sludge if we can blueprint one of Bakuda's timestop grenades).
Really, if you think about it, Digital Blueprints puts us on Dragon's level when it comes to Tinkering. She's a big deal mainly because she can reproduce other Tinker's works, which we can do as well. Just being able to do maintenance on other Tinker's works puts us ahead of the ballgame for Tinkering.
Also... Can Tim pull off that dimensional folding storage technique used in PS's construction? I don't know if that's a standard part of Devices, or part of PS's status as a Lost Logia. If Tim can pull it off... Well... Taylor Varga gives plenty of examples of how this can be useful...
Last edited:
Regarding Scapegoat, he might get the injury himself, but one aspect of his power is that he can then transfer it to someone else. (Or perhaps also animals? Though that would make things too easy)
Either a volunteer, or an enemy. If a volunteer it could either be someone willing to be maimed for one reason or another, or a brute capable of regenerating, a self replicator etc., for instance I think Aegis or Browbeat could both handle it.
as UberJJK said, there should be several others that we don't know about, who could serve in a pinch, either to heal directly, or serve as a volunteer for Scapegoat.
Last edited:
For those interested the combined SB/SV tally currently stands at:
Vote Tally : Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha) | Page 265 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.10.1
Learned Spell:
[X] Learn: Charge Cartridge
No. of Votes: 14
[X] Blitz Action
No. of Votes: 9
[X] Telekinesis
No. of Votes: 2
[X] LEARN Frost Beam
No. of Votes: 1
Shipwright's Actions:
[X] Plan: Sorry About That!
-[X] BUILD Power Armor
-[X] BUILD Prosthesis for Vista (natural look)
-[X] BUY Mobility
No. of Votes: 10
[X] Plan: Quality of Life
-[X] BUILD Power Armor (light, flying, mobility focused)
-[X] BUILD Prosthesis for Vista (natural look)
-[X] BUY Guardian Beast
-[X] BUY Mobility
No. of Votes: 6
[X] Plan: Empower Friends
-[X] BUILD Power Armor
-[X] BUILD Prosthesis for Vista (natural look)
-[X] BUY Carbon Fiber Plating
-[X] SPEND remaining into Mass Weapons
No. of Votes: 3
[X] Plan Improvement
-[X] BUILD a mana generator
-[X] BUILD a set of power armor
-[X] BUY Carbon Fiber Plating
-[X] BUY Guardian Beast
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Plan Whoops, My Bad.
-[X] BUILD Prosthesis for Vista (natural look)
-[X] BUILD Prosthesis for Vista (battle oriented, better shielding, strength, ect.)
-[X] BUILD A second 3D printer
-[X] BUY Carbon Fiber Plating
No. of Votes: 1
-[X] LEARN Burst
-[X] BUILD Prosthesis for Vista (natural look)
-[X] BUILD Prosthesis for Vista (battle oriented, better shielding, strength, ect.)
-[X] BUILD A second 3D printer
-[X] BUY Carbon Fiber Plating
No. of Votes: 1
Vote Tally : Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha) | Page 265 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.10.1
Learned Spell:
[X] Learn: Charge Cartridge
No. of Votes: 14
[X] Blitz Action
No. of Votes: 9
[X] Telekinesis
No. of Votes: 2
[X] LEARN Frost Beam
No. of Votes: 1
Shipwright's Actions:
[X] Plan: Sorry About That!
-[X] BUILD Power Armor
-[X] BUILD Prosthesis for Vista (natural look)
-[X] BUY Mobility
No. of Votes: 10
[X] Plan: Quality of Life
-[X] BUILD Power Armor (light, flying, mobility focused)
-[X] BUILD Prosthesis for Vista (natural look)
-[X] BUY Guardian Beast
-[X] BUY Mobility
No. of Votes: 6
[X] Plan: Empower Friends
-[X] BUILD Power Armor
-[X] BUILD Prosthesis for Vista (natural look)
-[X] BUY Carbon Fiber Plating
-[X] SPEND remaining into Mass Weapons
No. of Votes: 3
[X] Plan Improvement
-[X] BUILD a mana generator
-[X] BUILD a set of power armor
-[X] BUY Carbon Fiber Plating
-[X] BUY Guardian Beast
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Plan Whoops, My Bad.
-[X] BUILD Prosthesis for Vista (natural look)
-[X] BUILD Prosthesis for Vista (battle oriented, better shielding, strength, ect.)
-[X] BUILD A second 3D printer
-[X] BUY Carbon Fiber Plating
No. of Votes: 1
-[X] LEARN Burst
-[X] BUILD Prosthesis for Vista (natural look)
-[X] BUILD Prosthesis for Vista (battle oriented, better shielding, strength, ect.)
-[X] BUILD A second 3D printer
-[X] BUY Carbon Fiber Plating
No. of Votes: 1
Last edited:
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Read the story, fun times and hope it keeps up!
Okay, that's out of the way, onto the nitty-gritty. Earth Bet is a world where gangs control large chunks of cities worldwide, even in highly developed nations. Well, developed for a world without sci-fi magic. Kinda, if we don't count tinker-tech. There are three giant monsters destroying said cities every four months in a variety of horrific ways, and the most anyone has ever done was drive them off with one notable exception. And the damage is always horrific, along with the body count. It also turns out that these monsters haven't been trying all that hard the last twenty years and that looks like they might be ready to knuckle down and get to work. Finally, it has seemingly random people gain even more random superpowers after something very traumatic, say a life or death scenario, or their life has reached such a low that it's close enough. Some of those powers are strong enough to be right up there with the giant monsters on the threat scale. All without any kind of magic as TSAB knows it I believe.
How TSAB will react to this? More to the point, the TSAB first contact team? A first contact team that isn't aware of any of this and thinks it's going in to grab a Lost Logia and maybe a mage. I'm asking 'cuase I know my worm better then my MLGN, but people 'round here are mostly of the opinion that a fight would end badly for this incoming TSAB team, and a fight is very much on the table. I haven't been through the whole thread yet mind, and I want to get on the same page as everyone else on the issue. Before it becomes an issue. I understand there are other problems going on right now, but I haven't read up on everything else as much and first contact is a pretty big deal, all said and done.
Okay, that's out of the way, onto the nitty-gritty. Earth Bet is a world where gangs control large chunks of cities worldwide, even in highly developed nations. Well, developed for a world without sci-fi magic. Kinda, if we don't count tinker-tech. There are three giant monsters destroying said cities every four months in a variety of horrific ways, and the most anyone has ever done was drive them off with one notable exception. And the damage is always horrific, along with the body count. It also turns out that these monsters haven't been trying all that hard the last twenty years and that looks like they might be ready to knuckle down and get to work. Finally, it has seemingly random people gain even more random superpowers after something very traumatic, say a life or death scenario, or their life has reached such a low that it's close enough. Some of those powers are strong enough to be right up there with the giant monsters on the threat scale. All without any kind of magic as TSAB knows it I believe.
How TSAB will react to this? More to the point, the TSAB first contact team? A first contact team that isn't aware of any of this and thinks it's going in to grab a Lost Logia and maybe a mage. I'm asking 'cuase I know my worm better then my MLGN, but people 'round here are mostly of the opinion that a fight would end badly for this incoming TSAB team, and a fight is very much on the table. I haven't been through the whole thread yet mind, and I want to get on the same page as everyone else on the issue. Before it becomes an issue. I understand there are other problems going on right now, but I haven't read up on everything else as much and first contact is a pretty big deal, all said and done.
- Location
- Kansas
I
Taylor was able to shoot out a short message while with Dragon trying to warn them about a telepathic monster (Ziz).
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
I know, I'm all caught up on the story posts, just not the thread. And that only partly informs them of one part of one facet of Earth Bets many, many problems, and isn't what I'm asking about. Do we have concerns about the TBAS team pissing off Tyalor and by extension a whole bunch of parahumans driven towards conflict?
ReaperofInterest
Herald of Disaster
One of the actions we picked this week was to send an email to Dragon that we've got a reliable power source for the radio, so she's going to get working in a general 'welcome to earth-bet' information packet.
*Attempts to resist making Boatmurdered reference, fails miserably*
- Location
- Budapest, Hungary
On the other hand Raptors are stronger a typical trained B rank mage. But agaun the power levels became bullsit in Force.
So have just finished reading through all of Silently Watches' posts here on the SV thread, I don't plan for a repeat experience on the SB thread, I found a couple things worth discussing.
Then in Episode 4 we see Chrono, Nanoha, and Fate communicating with the Arthra despite being inside a Barrier. That being said it's not via telepathy since they are talking out loud so that is probably some kind of magic radio
Finally in Episode 5, starting at 13:47, we see Zafira, who is inside a Barrier designed to trap him and Vita inside, use telepathy, visibly shown to be communicating without moving his mouth, to communicate with Shamal, who is explicitly shown to be outside the Barrier.
That being said Barriers seem to interfere with long ranged communication since at 4:45 in Episode 2 of A's Yuuno explains:
As for the scene you mention from the second movie; I don't have a copy to check with but If I'm remembering correctly most/all of that encounter was movie original stuff. Given that the movies are in universe movies with PR editing* and the fact it seems to contradict the original show I'm going to say that was just added for dramatic effect and is not reflective of real Barriers.
*Precia was a lot nicer and more repentant in the first movie because Fate didn't want her mother remembered as a monster, even though she kinda was.
On an unrelated note given that we can create 8 Cartridges before being "weakened","weakened" is described as being basically out of mana:
Actually while Hayate does use Hraesvelgr in episode 11 of StrikerS to shoot down the drones/drone illusions she does in fact cast Diabolic Emission in episode 12. Quattro used her IS to turn herself and Dieci invisible to escape Fate and in response Hayate hit the entire area with a Diabolic Emission because hiding isn't helpful if you just blow everything up. Unfortunately they manage to get out of the blast radius in time. This starts at 16:40 on my copy of StrikerS ep12.
Hate to say this but dimensional barriers allow telepathy and possibly radio. In Episode 2 of A's, starting at 12:30, we see Shamal call Hayate's cellphone via Klarwind while inside the Barrier everyone is fighting inside. I'm not sure how that would be possible if she couldn't send a radio signal through the Barrier.
Then in Episode 4 we see Chrono, Nanoha, and Fate communicating with the Arthra despite being inside a Barrier. That being said it's not via telepathy since they are talking out loud so that is probably some kind of magic radio
Finally in Episode 5, starting at 13:47, we see Zafira, who is inside a Barrier designed to trap him and Vita inside, use telepathy, visibly shown to be communicating without moving his mouth, to communicate with Shamal, who is explicitly shown to be outside the Barrier.
That being said Barriers seem to interfere with long ranged communication since at 4:45 in Episode 2 of A's Yuuno explains:
yet the Arthra can still remain in contact with Nanoha, Fate, Arf, and Yuuno in episode 10 of A's, starting at 18:00, despite it being the exam same prison Barrier, stated at 8:20, used in Episodes1 and 2. The barrier blocking long ranged communication, in Episodes 1 and 2 the Arthra was still traveling from TSAB HQ to Earth, but not local, the Arthra was near Earth's moon, communications.
As for the scene you mention from the second movie; I don't have a copy to check with but If I'm remembering correctly most/all of that encounter was movie original stuff. Given that the movies are in universe movies with PR editing* and the fact it seems to contradict the original show I'm going to say that was just added for dramatic effect and is not reflective of real Barriers.
*Precia was a lot nicer and more repentant in the first movie because Fate didn't want her mother remembered as a monster, even though she kinda was.
On an unrelated note given that we can create 8 Cartridges before being "weakened","weakened" is described as being basically out of mana:
and that Ragnarök is enough to empty Taylor's mana supply it seems reasonable to me that the number of Cartridges needed would be a little higher, to account for the difference between "ill" and "unconscious", then eight. I'm guessing ten since it's both a two digit number, which fits with my earlier decoding, and is just a little higher then eight.
Silently Watches
Professional Stalker
- Location
- Right behind you
Yes and no. Other than Devices, a good rule of thumb is that magitech in this quest will not allow you to replicate spells. You can get around that somewhat based on what skills are available; e.g., no Shooter spells but you do have lasers, no Flare Blade (especially as the "Flare" aspect is part of a Mana Conversion Affinity and thus not available to any mage without that MCA let alone a piece of tech) but hardlight weapons are a go. I am also not above giving you some leeway if you 1) have progressed a good ways down the relevant skill branch and 2) give me a good explanation for how you plan to get where you want considering what you have available.
I know that the movies are "less canon" than the shows, but I have a copy of the movies and it's a lot faster to skim through 2 hours of film than 6. Blocking non-ship-assisted telepathy also makes sense with the mechanics of dimensional barriers that is my personal headcanon. Some of the rest of the counterexamples you mentioned I'm just going to chalk up ship radios having the power and the computing abilities to take shifted dimensional space into account and the Wolkenritter having a telepathy workaround based on them being mana constructs.
Don't take this as me saying you're wrong. You're not. I just don't have the time or inclination to go back and rewrite that chapter(s).
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Ah, good. Now I know my worm okayish, for someone who has never and will never read the source material, but my MLGN is much weaker. I'm pretty sure a high power mage is more dangerous then a high power cape, though the way cape powers can work I'm not sure a 1:1 comparison is even possible. I'm also not sure how common a mage is compared to a parahuman, and from discussion, Endbringers sound a lot worse then a Lost Logia. And there's three EBs kicking around right now.
So once the powers that be in TSAB get a look at that packet, what's their likely reaction? Business as usual? Giant headache? Screaming terror? Flat out disbelief?