Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)

ReaperofInterest · May 8, 2017

Nottheunmaker said:
I'm pretty sure a high power mage is more dangerous then a high power cape, though the way cape powers can work I'm not sure a 1:1 comparison is even possible.

Depends on the mage's Linker Core Rating, what spells they have, if they have an Immortal Assimilation Engine-granted Template or not...

Taylor's currently considered high-to-Triumvirate tier with her currently known abilities, which don't include any currently locked abilities (naturally) or her teleportation abilities. Recursion Field is known about, if it helps. So anybody with a Template could be considered to be at least Triumvirate-tier when they have all their spells unlocked.

Nottheunmaker said:
I'm also not sure how common a mage is compared to a parahuman,

According to Silently, about 5% of people on Earth-Bet possess Linker Cores of varying strengths. He's posted and linked information detailing the specifics on the first post.

UberJJK · May 9, 2017

Silently Watches said:
Don't take this as me saying you're wrong. You're not. I just don't have the time or inclination to go back and rewrite that chapter(s).

Don't worry, I wasn't expecting you to rewrite the chapter(s) or even change anything going forwards. It's a months old statement so of course changing it is impractical. I just wanted to avoid that misunderstanding spreading since MGLN has such a small community fanon can catch spread quickly.

Nottheunmaker said:
Ah, good. Now I know my worm okayish, for someone who has never and will never read the source material, but my MLGN is much weaker. I'm pretty sure a high power mage is more dangerous then a high power cape, though the way cape powers can work I'm not sure a 1:1 comparison is even possible.

While not an entirely perfect comparison here is what Silently Watches' had to say on when being a mage with a device is worth losing your powers:

Silently Watches said:
Depends on the cape in question. One of the three, it might be worth it to keep their shard. That's D- or C-rank mage caliber, which basically means cannon fodder, and they also can't fly, so they don't even have that boost to mobility. Two of them (B- to A-rank), a Device is already probably an even trade or slightly superior. And if they're AA or higher, who get three spells even without a Device? Like I said, think twice only if you're dealing with the best of the best of the cape world.

Going by this table here:

Silently Watches said:
I'm using 7 Linker Core rankings:

D-rank: 45% of the population (1-45 on d100)
C-rank: 35% of the population (46-80)
B-rank: 10% of the population (81-90)
A-rank: 5% of the population (91-95)
AA-rank: 3% of the population (96-98)
AAA-rank: 2% of the population (99-100)
S+-rank: Template mages and certain canon Nanoha characters only

Out of a random sample of mages 80% are inferior to your average cape, 15% are roughly equal, and 5% are superior.

Of course these numbers are somewhat deceptive in that the TSAB doesn't recruit just anyone, nor do they send low level Mages on important duties if at all possible. Now the Nanoha Wiki says:

Typically, the TSAB armed forces are ranked D to C, while B is an impassable wall for many Air/Ground mages at first, officers are ranked AA to S.

but canon ranks go down to F-rank while here Silently Watches' only counts down to D-rank so there may be some changes there.

I'm also not sure how common a mage is compared to a parahuman

Very common. Parahumans are about 1:8,000 in urban areas and 1:26,000 in rural areas. Mages meanwhile are 1:20 on Earth and we have abnormally low levels of Mages. As I understand it most worlds have more Mages then non-Mages.

Actually looking at the numbers I think @Silently Watches may want to adjust the number of Mages on Earth down a bit. As it currently stands with 5% of people possessing Linker Cores, and 2% of them being AAA-rank monsters then of the USA' ~300,000,000 people there should be 300,000 AAA-rankers. Even if we limit things to say just active US military personnel then out of the 1,301,300 soldiers there should be about thirteen hundred AAA-rankers.

...Unless the reason you mentioned our lack of scanning for Linker Cores over and over again was a hint that we should start building an army of mages to help solve Earth Bet's many issues?

and from discussion, Endbringers sound a lot worse then a Lost Logia. And there's three EBs kicking around right now.

The Endbringers aren't worse then a Lost Logia. They are on the higher end of the scale sure, mostly due to their durability, but there is worse stuff out there. The Book of Darkness for example destroys entire worlds, cannot be destroyed but instead put into hibernation for a couple years, and the only weapon capable of forcing the Book of Darkness into hibernation is the Arc-en-ciel which has nasty side effects:

veekie said:
The Arc-En-Ciel causes a hundred kilometer spatial rupture. It's actually surprisingly contained as the blast radius is mathematically perfect, and unlikely to break the planet in half unless you INTENDED to do so.

However, the annihilation of a hundred kilometers worth of matter on an inhabited planet WOULD cause enormous weather system disruptions, massive earthquakes as the planetary mass rebalances and tsunamis on top. It'd hit worse than the Endbringer.

Oh and the Book of Darkness has been doing this for centuries.

So once the powers that be in TSAB get a look at that packet, what's their likely reaction? Business as usual? Giant headache? Screaming terror? Flat out disbelief?

Giant headache. No one likes finding out there are yet more rogue weapons systems out there. Fortunately unlike most Lost Logia the TSAB run into the Endbringers seem restricted to just one world, Earth Bet, so once they figure out the Endbringers are too tough to destroy without seriously damaging the biosphere odds are they'll just arrange for the evacuation of Earth Bet.

edale · May 9, 2017

Here's a question.... Is PS the only way to scan someone for a linker core?

Can Tim build something to scan for linker cores? Even if it just gives a yes/no answer, without any additional details, it would make things much simpler in a lot of ways, especially with the PRT accepting magic as something besides a parahuman ability. Especially when they start finding them in lots of people without parahuman abilities.

Silently Watches · May 9, 2017

edale said:
Here's a question.... Is PS the only way to scan someone for a linker core?

PS is the only way to scan someone as of right now. I'm unlikely to let you build something to do the same (for game balance reasons, not narrative ones) unless you really impress me with your logic for how to leverage Tim's skills to do so.

UberJJK said:
Very common. Parahumans are about 1:8,000 in urban areas and 1:26,000 in rural areas. Mages meanwhile are 1:20 on Earth and we have abnormally low levels of Mages. As I understand it most worlds have more Mages then non-Mages.

Actually looking at the numbers I think @Silently Watches may want to adjust the number of Mages on Earth down a bit. As it currently stands with 5% of people possessing Linker Cores, and 2% of them being AAA-rank monsters then of the USA' ~300,000,000 people there should be 300,000 AAA-rankers. Even if we limit things to say just active US military personnel then out of the 1,301,300 soldiers there should be about thirteen hundred AAA-rankers.

...Unless the reason you mentioned our lack of scanning for Linker Cores over and over again was a hint that we should start building an army of mages to help solve Earth Bet's many issues?

Building an army of mages was definitely something I would allow. You just need the time to do so, and on Earth Bet, the powers that be are unlikely to agree to that for various reasons. The reason the percentage of potential mages is so high is two-fold. First, having them be more rare makes it difficult to find other people to give templates to. Second, considering UA97 is also a low magic world and not only were there two mages with very powerful cores living in the same city (Nanoha and Hayate), one of them was friends with two other people who have Linker Cores (Arisa and Suzuka, which is why they were trapped in the dimensional barrier at the end of A's). Either there's an absurd twist of probabilities there, which is a possibility I'll admit, or "low magic" is in comparison to places like Midchilda, where almost everyone has some capacity for magic. I lean more towards the latter explanation.

Archeo Lumiere · May 9, 2017

Silently Watches said:
PS is the only way to scan someone as of right now. I'm unlikely to let you build something to do the same (for game balance reasons, not narrative ones) unless you really impress me with your logic for how to leverage Tim's skills to do so.

Well, a linker core is an organ, right? If so that means it's in a consistent place, or if not it at least has a recognizable mana signature. Going off of that, it stands to reason that a simple full body scan module keyed to recognize that signature would be sufficient to scan for cores at all, eventually improving to read the strength of the core itself.

Sitxar · May 9, 2017

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UberJJK · May 9, 2017

Archeo Lumiere said:
Well, a linker core is an organ, right? If so that means it's in a consistent place, or if not it at least has a recognizable mana signature. Going off of that, it stands to reason that a simple full body scan module keyed to recognize that signature would be sufficient to scan for cores at all, eventually improving to read the strength of the core itself.

Linker Cores are physical organs located in the spinal column as per:

Silently Watches said:
It is stored in the Linker Core, an unusual structure of nerve tissue found in the spinal column of magic-capable creatures or sapients.

so an MRI should pick it up so long as the operator knew what to look for.

Given that Alexandria is planning on talking to Taylor about her "benefactors" after the next Endbringer attack:

Silently Watches said:
"We could always pull Calamity Witch aside and have her tell us how to get ahold of her benefactors," Eidolon said. He looked more invigorated than he had, evidence of a solution to his power problem that might actually work for a change raising his spirits.

"She hasn't revealed anything about them yet," Legend reminded him. "Maybe she'll answer freely, but if Alex is right about their plans, she's more likely to keep her mouth shut until they give her the okay."

"Then we put pressure on her until she spills the beans."

"No." Legend and Eidolon both whipped their heads around to look at her in surprise and anxiety, almost as if her reaction had scared them. Her voice hadn't been that hard, had it? "We will not force her to tell us anything, and we certainly will not start hounding her like a criminal because she has information we want."

"It worked well enough before."

She gave Eidolon an unamused glare. "Yes, because the way we used to do things worked out so well for us in the end, didn't it? Cauldron's entire purpose gone and only our sins remaining. I'd like to avoid staining my soul any more than I already have, thank you. We will approach her, but we will do it properly. If she wants to help us, she will do it because she wants to."

"Fine," he all but spat. "Since you seem to have this all planned out, when are you going to talk to her?"

"After the next Endbringer fight. It would work best if she shows up, but even if she doesn't, she participated in the fight against the Simugh. She understands what's at stake." Legend gave her a suspicious look, and she shrugged. "I said we would not force her into anything. I never said I wouldn't take advantage of the situation to persuade her to help us."

we could reveal the necessary information to her and have the Protectorate and PRT undergo MRI scans for the presence of Linker Cores.

That should eliminate the 95% who posses no Linker Core leaving just the remaining 5% for us to scan and verify if they are worth training. Obviously this wouldn't be a personal army of anything but this would be a good think for the USA, oh and Canada since they are covered by the PRT/Protectorate, as a whole.

If we assume the PRT is about the same size as the FBI (35,104 employees) then there should be approximately 1,755 people with Linker Cores. Of those 1,755 there should be around 351 with B-rank or better Linker Cores which puts them at parahuman levels. Given Wildbow's estimate that there are around 3,700 active members of the Protectorate/Wards just those who have cape tier cores would mean a ~9.5% increase in membership.

That alone would be a pretty big shakeup.

veekie · May 9, 2017

Nottheunmaker said:
Ah, good. Now I know my worm okayish, for someone who has never and will never read the source material, but my MLGN is much weaker. I'm pretty sure a high power mage is more dangerous then a high power cape, though the way cape powers can work I'm not sure a 1:1 comparison is even possible. I'm also not sure how common a mage is compared to a parahuman, and from discussion, Endbringers sound a lot worse then a Lost Logia. And there's three EBs kicking around right now.

So once the powers that be in TSAB get a look at that packet, what's their likely reaction? Business as usual? Giant headache? Screaming terror? Flat out disbelief?

Okay, my own reading of it:
Versatility:
-Any one Parahuman usually has one power only.
-Any one Mage has at least a Brute rating(Barrier Jacket, Shield spells) and a Blaster rating. Telepathy, flight and dimensional effects are common at higher levels of power

Diversity:
-Parahumans have greater availability of rare and exotic effects. Their distribution of weird shit is close to even.
-Mages have weird shit distributed on the far tail end of a bell curve. Common abilities are mostly variations on energy mastery, though prophecy and the like are not unknown.

Power:
-Parahumans tend to either be glass cannons or brick walls. They rarely have both offense and defense, however, their ability in their area of influence generally can defeat a Mage in the same area.
-Mages are broad. A low ranked Mage is capable of both offense and defense, but a parahuman's attack can shred straight through battleship grade defenses, or the attack might crash flat against unlimited regeneration or temporal based defenses.

But the big deal here:
-Parahumans are individual lab experiments. They have power but not the social or technological foundation to understand it. Endbringers are devastating singular forces.
-Mages are a civilization. An entire techbase spread across an interdimensional polity. To them, Nilbog is something which has happened historically, and been survived and dealt with, if not without cost. So are rogue Alexandrias. And the Endbringers. It's not whether they can deal with it or not, but rather whether they're willing to accept the price of victory.

Noting that in season two, Admiral Graham's aborted plan to deal with the rampaging Book of Darkness was to freeze it in stasis along with his home planet. The whole thing. Forever.

Silently Watches said:
PS is the only way to scan someone as of right now. I'm unlikely to let you build something to do the same (for game balance reasons, not narrative ones) unless you really impress me with your logic for how to leverage Tim's skills to do so.

Building an army of mages was definitely something I would allow. You just need the time to do so, and on Earth Bet, the powers that be are unlikely to agree to that for various reasons. The reason the percentage of potential mages is so high is two-fold. First, having them be more rare makes it difficult to find other people to give templates to. Second, considering UA97 is also a low magic world and not only were there two mages with very powerful cores living in the same city (Nanoha and Hayate), one of them was friends with two other people who have Linker Cores (Arisa and Suzuka, which is why they were trapped in the dimensional barrier at the end of A's). Either there's an absurd twist of probabilities there, which is a possibility I'll admit, or "low magic" is in comparison to places like Midchilda, where almost everyone has some capacity for magic. I lean more towards the latter explanation.

Actually, according to Nanoha As, Earth is a known source of powerful Linker Cores, as Admiral Graham(the one with the catgirl familiars) is also from Earth.

They mentioned that Earth spawns RARE linker cores, but anyone who has one tends to be at the top end of the chart.
So while on Midchilda, magic potential is very common and you have large number of F to D ranked mages, with the Forwards at rank B to C being exceptionally talented. AAA rankers are practically unheard of.

On Earth, magic potential is rare, but the chart is skewed. The average person has zero magical ability, but when someone DOES have any potential at all, you're looking at them starting at B rank and going upwards.

Not that it matters for this quest.

Shaseyu · May 9, 2017

veekie said:
Admiral Graham's aborted plan to deal with the rampaging Book of Darkness was to freeze it in stasis along with his home planet. The whole thing. Forever.

He planned to freeze only Book and Hayate, not whole planet.

And that actually was pretty good plan. TSAB refusal to even consider it I found the most fascinating, but the most unbelievable thing in MGLN.

UberJJK · May 9, 2017

Shaseyu said:
And that actually was pretty good plan. TSAB refusal to even consider it I found the most fascinating, but the most unbelievable thing in MGLN.

I just rewatched the relevant episodes and I can't find anything like that. Admiral Graham kept the Book of Darkness' location and his plan for dealing with it a secret until Chrono figured it out. So there was no chance for the TSAB to refuse the plan.

Furthermore when Chrono got the plan explained to him his response was:
1) The Book of Darkness' master is innocent until the book goes out of control and thus imprisoning them forever would be illegal.
2) Even ignoring the legality of the issue freezing the Book of Darkness is easy to undo and it's powerful enough that someday some fool will unseal it out of greed or desperation.

Even then however Chrono takes Durandal with him and when he arrives at the battle offers it as the first of two options, the latter being deploying the Arc-En-Ciel. He was however too late since Hayate had split off the corrupted defense program which Shamal and Signum said would ignore the freezing.

So at not point was the idea dismissed out of hand.

Nottheunmaker · May 9, 2017

UberJJK said:
Useful info

veekie said:
More useful info!

Thanks, that good to know. One or two things you guys said caught my eye.

UberJJK said:
Giant headache. No one likes finding out there are yet more rogue weapons systems out there. Fortunately unlike most Lost Logia the TSAB run into the Endbringers seem restricted to just one world, Earth Bet, so once they figure out the Endbringers are too tough to destroy without seriously damaging the biosphere odds are they'll just arrange for the evacuation of Earth Bet.

Sounds good if they can get everyone to do so. Well, so long as the Endbringers don't have anyway to follow the Earth Beter's.

veekie said:
But the big deal here:
-Parahumans are individual lab experiments. They have power but not the social or technological foundation to understand it. Endbringers are devastating singular forces.

This isn't something that Taylor can do something about, and for TSAB it might be possible but I'm not sure they'd go for it, but what about... well, jail-breaking the shards a bit? Not to Khepri levels natch', but tone down the drive for conflict, rewire what causes a trigger, even set what powers are available? They did something similar with Eden's shards, and with Scion dead it's about the same deal. Granted those are dead shards, but that's pretty much all that's left...

This is where my Worm info falls short, as I really don't know if this is possible, but it seems like it should. Anyone that can, feel free to correct me.

And I should throw out a vote before I forget and it closes on me.

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landcollector · May 9, 2017

Nottheunmaker said:
Not to Khepri levels natch', but tone down the drive for conflict, rewire what causes a trigger, even set what powers are available?

I...don't think that is going to be easy, if it is even possible. Bonesaw understood more than most do about Shards, and that knowledge came on the corpses of an undetermined number of capes over her "career", for lack of a better term, in the S9. I'm not sure many parahumans would be lining up for the almost certainly fatal experimentation process. Khepri was, in the end, a tremendous fuckup on Amy's part.

Re: Rewiring what causes a trigger event-
The decision to manifest powers in a potential parahuman is on the Shard side of things, so I don't see much good coming from that.

Shaseyu · May 9, 2017

UberJJK said:
Admiral Graham kept the Book of Darkness' location and his plan for dealing with it a secret until Chrono figured it out. So there was no chance for the TSAB to refuse the plan.

Exactly. He was an Admiral, there was exactly one reason for him to keep his plans in secret – he knew he wouldn't find support.

Chrono's arguments were pretty strange:
1) Yes, Hayate was innocent, but also she was doomed. She will die, if Book will not be fed. She will die, if Book will be fed. That was a thing for centuries – Master of the Book is doomed. Mumbo-jumbo that Hayate used to somehow break the cycle was absolutely unpredictable.
2) They could just guard the Book, it's definitely simpler than stopping it rampage each 6-7 years. They did it with Jewel Seeds after all.

But that's all, of course, just my opinion.

UberJJK · May 9, 2017

Shaseyu said:
Exactly. He was an Admiral, there was exactly one reason for him to keep his plans in secret – he knew he wouldn't find support.

Alternatively he kept it secret because he wanted to deal with the Book of Darkness himself. Remember Graham blamed himself for killing Chrono's father when the Book of Darkness took over Clyde's ship.

1) Yes, Hayate was innocent, but also she was doomed. She will die, if Book will not be fed. She will die, if Book will be fed. That was a thing for centuries – Master of the Book is doomed. Mumbo-jumbo that Hayate used to somehow break the cycle was absolutely unpredictable.

I completely agree with you that barring the knowledge Hayate was a once in centuries lucky shot it's quite reasonable, and one might even go as far as to say moral, to freeze her with the book. That doesn't change the fact it's illegal. If Admiral Graham had come forth with his plans I'm willing to bet the TSAB would have been willing to adjust the law, such as by making simple possession of the Book of Darkness illegal.

2) They could just guard the Book, it's definitely simpler than stopping it rampage each 6-7 years. They did it with Jewel Seeds after all.

Indeed. They kept the Jewel Seeds safe for at most ten years before Jail stole them, I say at most since we don't know when exactly he stole them. It's telling that Admiral Graham's plan was to try and hide the frozen Hayate between dimension rather then hand her over to the TSAB for safe keeping.

Always Late · May 9, 2017

Nottheunmaker said:
This isn't something that Taylor can do something about, and for TSAB it might be possible but I'm not sure they'd go for it, but what about... well, jail-breaking the shards a bit? Not to Khepri levels natch', but tone down the drive for conflict, rewire what causes a trigger, even set what powers are available? They did something similar with Eden's shards, and with Scion dead it's about the same deal. Granted those are dead shards, but that's pretty much all that's left...

Normal Eden triggers still have the conflict libido.
Cauldron capes lose that partly due to Cauldron taking them right off the corpse and partly due to the mixing process.
Scion blew himself, and Cauldron's Eden base, up. That means all Scion's shards are in the same state the normal Eden ones are, conflict libido included.

landcollector said:
I...don't think that is going to be easy, if it is even possible. Bonesaw understood more than most do about Shards, and that knowledge came on the corpses of an undetermined number of capes over her "career", for lack of a better term, in the S9. I'm not sure many parahumans would be lining up for the almost certainly fatal experimentation process. Khepri was, in the end, a tremendous fuckup on Amy's part.

I have to agree with Land here. There's a reason Cauldron did their experiments on dying individuals. And, well, we know what state the survivors were in. When Scion killed Cauldron, he took out Doctor Mother, Number Man, Contessa, and all their years of data. They'd be the best to understand from a scientific perspective how shards work, and even they it was in many places a working guess, and they're all gone.

It's not happening @Notttheunmaker.

Musical Blue · May 9, 2017

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Nottheunmaker · May 10, 2017

Always Late said:
Normal Eden triggers still have the conflict libido.
Cauldron capes lose that partly due to Cauldron taking them right off the corpse and partly due to the mixing process.
Scion blew himself, and Cauldron's Eden base, up. That means all Scion's shards are in the same state the normal Eden ones are, conflict libido included.

I have to agree with Land here. There's a reason Cauldron did their experiments on dying individuals. And, well, we know what state the survivors were in. When Scion killed Cauldron, he took out Doctor Mother, Number Man, Contessa, and all their years of data. They'd be the best to understand from a scientific perspective how shards work, and even they it was in many places a working guess, and they're all gone.

It's not happening @Notttheunmaker.

Within the scope of this quest? I agree, all but impossible. The data is hard to replicate, dangerous to get in the first place, and it's just not something anyone on any side is that interested in at the moment. They've got their plates full enough as it is and the hurdles are too high. I'll also grant that removing the need for conflict may be all but impossible without horrible side effects, but Cauldron had gotten a few so I'm not competently ruling it out.

But but the data isn't fully gone. Alexandria is alive, and she likely has seen many of the documents concerning shard manipulation. Plus there's Panacea and Bonesaw, however horrific the latters methods might be. The data is fragmented and incomplete, but not gone. It can be required.

And the prize at the end. A shard could turn a cannon fodder mage into a force to be reckoned with. The amount of bullshit they could pull out of their ass is astounding. They'd lose their device sure, but if the power is that bad they can switch back, or just limit it to fresh recruits. Get a power that isn't up to it? Put in a fresh device and switch back to magic.

Then there's the extreme long term, which I think the GM went over a bit, but I don't remeber where or the details so I'll spoiler these thoughs.

Shards are alive right? And they can learn and change themselves. Indeed that's the point of shards, learn, change and grow. They're somewhat alien and conflict driven, but still living things capable of independent thought. Mana is a type of energy in MLGN, and a great number of organic beings can manipulate it without outside aid. Devices greatly expand what can be done, but you don't strictly need them. The powers that shards can currently grant aren't things they pulled out of their ass, they learned them from previous species they've encountered and their sciences, as well as shard interactions during the cycle. They should be able to learn about magic, or even to use it.

I have a very hard time not coming up with uses for that. Even if all you wanted was more spells, you could have shards that basically acted as second Linker Core. Give time I'm sure they could make Devices that worked around or even with a Shard. And the current crop of powers they have are nothing to sneeze at. A horrible thing if you're on the wrong side of it, but amazing otherwise.

Hell, given a Linker Core is an actual organ in the spine, I don't see a reason that it couldn't be manipulated by a bio-tinker or Breaker with the appropriate biokinetic ability. Shards could be a great boon to mages of all strips in the future. Far in the future most likely, as any current shard is incapable of understanding it, but maybe a second trigger or bud could let one loose if capes keep playing with magic.

Granted is all falls apart if shards are somehow so alien they simply can't understand magic, in which case oh well, but I don't think they're that outside of common understanding.

Skychan · May 10, 2017

Okay so I've finally caught up but I have one comment that seems a concern to me.

Danny

Why has his power's downsides been so marginalized and almost ignored entirely by the PRT. He is not only a master, but one who's influence lasts beyond the initial control. He's almost custom made for paranoid maniacs to freak out about. So while I can see it maybe being overlooked once at the endbringer battle, bringing him in for the containment zone outbreak and putting this master near your thinkers? That seems incredibly risky and stupid. It's like his whole 16 foot zone of control thing was just handwaved away and he only has the coordination aspects.

But he doesn't have just the coordination aspects and to get those you have to have come into his REAL realm of control. So I don't know what random thinker women are doing flirting with him, or why the PRT isn't shitting bricks about letting the second coming of Teacher near any of their people not just once but a second time.

From the outside it looks like he has an entire gang made up of people who once he controlled them are now under his thrall not just short term but long term and willing to uproot their lives and follow after him, forgoing any other kind of real job, risking life and limb etc etc. So that it could be his control is a weird mix of teacher and heartbreaker, with cumulative time leading to more devotion to the master.

Anyway just thought I would share that concern.

Edit as for the vote, is there a reason why we don't have building a mana generator as a higher priority?

Always Late · May 10, 2017

Skychan said:
It's like his whole 16 foot zone of control thing was just handwaved away and he only has the coordination aspects.

Well...

Silently Watches said:
Jolly Cooperation – When affected by his powers, humans find themselves focusing on the same goals and working together with preternatural teamwork. Duration: 30 minutes.

Pooled Knowledge – Everyone affected by his powers shares sensory input, allowing information to be instantly relayed from the field to headquarters and back again. Duration: 30 minutes.

That's because they kind of were. Captain isn't Khepri. This was something some people had difficulty understanding back in the day.

Skychan said:
But he doesn't have just the coordination aspects and to get those you have to have come into his REAL realm of control. So I don't know what random thinker women are doing flirting with him, or why the PRT isn't shitting bricks about letting the second coming of Teacher near any of their people not just once but a second time.

One, the control is something Danny can, well, control who it affects.
Two, it doesn't actually have the kind of puppetry application other Master powers do. There isn't 'control', just coordination.

Skychan said:
From the outside it looks like he has an entire gang made up of people who once he controlled them are now under his thrall not just short term but long term and willing to uproot their lives and follow after him, forgoing any other kind of real job, risking life and limb etc etc. So that it could be his control is a weird mix of teacher and heartbreaker, with cumulative time leading to more devotion to the master.

And such assessments are promptly chucked into the trashbin where they belong, because they don't reflect the actual cape's powers and are needlessly paranoid.

Skychan, we're glad to have you aboard, but I think you've grossly misunderstood what Danny's power actually is.

veekie · May 10, 2017

Nottheunmaker said:
This isn't something that Taylor can do something about, and for TSAB it might be possible but I'm not sure they'd go for it, but what about... well, jail-breaking the shards a bit? Not to Khepri levels natch', but tone down the drive for conflict, rewire what causes a trigger, even set what powers are available? They did something similar with Eden's shards, and with Scion dead it's about the same deal. Granted those are dead shards, but that's pretty much all that's left...

TSAB policy is generally "Observe from a safe distance, maintaining Star Trek non-intervention rules for pre-~~warp~~dimensional science worlds", and "seal it away" for dangerous stuff, retaining Nuke it from Orbit if it threatens to be an interdimensional hazard.

They are strongly disincentivized from experimenting with unknown technology due to having potentially apocalyptic relics awaken, but are not opposed to taking the relics home and adopting them if said relics remain sane. As of Strikers era, the TSAB had the following:
-Book of Darkness - An ultimate spell preservation library gone rogue. Reformatted and it's master serves the TSAB as a Captain rank equivalent elite unit. Formerly recurring planetary disaster.
-Saint King's Cradle - Interdimensional artillery weapon and ~~moe space marine~~ supersoldier mass production facility. Shut down by applied Nanoha, and the control unit adopted as child.
-Queen Ixipellia - Immortal source of magical zombie plague production facility via blood. Currently under the care of the TSAB once they put down all the zombies and took her away from the people using her to make more.

Etc. the TSAB is basically dimensional magic Star Trek Federation, though with it's flaws in implementation

UberJJK · May 10, 2017

@Silently Watches - Can Devices be used to burn out the powers of parahumans without a Linker Core? It would be a good alternative to the Birdcage.

landcollector · May 10, 2017

UberJJK said:
@Silently Watches - Can Devices be used to burn out the powers of parahumans without a Linker Core? It would be a good alternative to the Birdcage.

I don't think that would be possible.

Skychan · May 10, 2017

Always Late said:
Well...

That's because they kind of were. Captain isn't Khepri. This was something some people had difficulty understanding back in the day.

One, the control is something Danny can, well, control who it affects.
Two, it doesn't actually have the kind of puppetry application other Master powers do. There isn't 'control', just coordination.

And such assessments are promptly chucked into the trashbin where they belong, because they don't reflect the actual cape's powers and are needlessly paranoid.

Skychan, we're glad to have you aboard, but I think you've grossly misunderstood what Danny's power actually is.

I was under the impression that the 16 foot area wasn't 'can control' but "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL" (I was wrong, but he still is in command and guiding them once it happens). As for what his power is vs what his power looks like and how paranoid the PRT may be I present exhibit A, Paige McCabe. You note I used a lot of words like, "Looks like, appears, etc" in my description. Remember Teacher doesn't directly puppet his minions either. But they are mastered all the same. Neither does Heartbreaker. Yet here is Captain, who ~~DIRECTLY controls everyone in 16 feet~~,coordinates and basically orders everyone within 16 feet, ~~and then afterward there is the coordination aspect which implies that~~ and his power has lingering effects. One significant apparent effect of which is intense loyalty and a willingness to risk life and limb and eagerness to come back under his control again to do so.

Edited after rechecking his original intro.

Always Late · May 10, 2017

Skychan said:
As for what his power is vs what his power looks like and how paranoid the PRT may be I present exhibit A, Paige Mcabee.

The PRT had nothing to do with Paige's trial. That was nothing more than a prosecution and judge allowed to trample constitutional rights in the name of making an example.

Interlude 6 said:
The prosecution had argued that she could have enhanced strength, that she could be a flight risk, and her lawyer hadn't done a good enough job of arguing against it, so the restraints had gone on. Which meant she got trussed up like Hannibal Lecter, as though she were already guilty. Unable to use her hands, her hair, the vibrant and startling yellow of a lemon, had slipped from where it was tucked behind her ears and strands now hung in front of her face. She knew it only made her look more deranged, more dangerous, but there wasn't anything she could do about it.

Nor does your point have much merit on a single instance of erroneous evidence.

UberJJK · May 10, 2017

It's also worth noting that it's around April 25th in game. Canary was drugged after her sentencing and woke up in the truck taking her to the Birdcage:

Interlude: Canary said:
A third person in uniform, a burly woman, walked briskly beside them, preparing a syringe. Panic gripped her, and with her having no way to express it, do anything with it, the hysteria only compounded itself, making her panic more. Her thoughts dissolved into a chaotic haze.

Even before the syringe of tranquilizers was jammed into her neck, Paige Mcabee fainted.

■
Paige woke up and enjoyed five seconds of peace before she remembered everything that had happened. Reality hit her like a splash of cold water in the face, somewhat literally. She opened her eyes, but found them dry, the world too bright to focus on. The rest of her was damp, wet. Beads of water trickled down her face.

She tried to move, and couldn't. It was as though something heavy had been piled on top of her. The paralysis terrified her. Paige had never been able to stand being unable to move. When she had gone camping as a kid, she had preferred to leave her sleeping bag unzipped and be cold rather than be confined inside it.

It was that foam, she realized. The restraints weren't enough, they'd sprayed her with the stuff to ensure that everything below her shoulders was covered. It gave a little to allow her to exhale, she could even shift her arms and legs a fraction, lean in any given direction. The harder she pushed, however, the more resistance there was. The second she relaxed her efforts, everything sprung back to the same position with the foam's rubbery pull. She felt nausea well in her gut, her heartbeat quickening. Her breathing increased, but the mask made even her breath feel confined. The water made her mask damp, so it clung to her mouth and nose. There were slits for her nostrils and mouth, but it was so little. She could not take a deep breath without drawing water into her mouth, and with her tongue depressed, she could not swallow easily.

The room lurched, and she had to stop herself before she lost her breakfast. Puking with the mask on, she might choke. Dimly, she realized where she was. A vehicle. A truck. It had passed over a pothole.

She knew where it was taking her. But if she couldn't get free, she was going to lose her mind before she got there.

Now unless they kept her sedated for days on end, which I find unlikely, odds are Canary was quickly rushed into a transport to the Birdcage. This is important because Lung and Bakuda were in the same transport:

Interlude: Canary said:
"Drop that and I'll turn you inside out," the girl spoke, "Lung. Hey, Lung? Wake up."

....

"Enough, Bakuda." he growled. He slammed his head back against the metal of the truck's wall behind him, as if to punctuate his statement.

According to the Worm Timeline the alliance against the ABB didn't conclude until May 4th which means the transport, and thus Canary's sentencing, almost certainly took place some time after that.

So odds are Canary hasn't actually been sentenced to the Birdcage yet. That being said her trial has almost certainly began, and is probably nearing the end, since it apparently lasted weeks:

Interlude: Canary said:
"It is in our interests to promote the existence of rogues, as the proportion of parahumans in our society slowly increases. Many rogues do not cause confrontations, nor do they seek to intervene in them. Instead, the majority of these individuals turn their abilities to practical use. This means less conflict, and this serves the betterment of society. These sentiments mirror those that you expressed to your family and friends, as we heard in this courtroom over the last few weeks.

Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)

Herald of Disaster

Professional Stalker

The Prince's Archivist

Altman be praised

Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains

Kaboom?

Altman be praised

Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains

Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains