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Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)

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landcollector said:
The idea of making Missy a Mage would have had a very steep climb at best anyway, since her spatial folding/warping abilities are damn good (Shaker 9s don't just come along everyday) and would be lost in such a move.
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Firedon said:
I think you should also remember that even if we scan Danny and he has a core, giving him a Device would be a spectacularly bad idea...
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Just double checked the FAQ.

Silently Watches said:
IMPORTANT: If you find a cape who has a Linker Core, giving them a Device will permanently disable their shard-based abilities. That's actually the biggest reason why no-Device mages are an option...
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So whilst it's not something to worry about right now, that right there says to me that training a parahuman in magic doesn't automatically rule out them keeping their parahuman abilities. They just can't ever use a device.

Not useful right now, but it kind of confirms my thoughts about scanning everyone we get on good terms with, useful cape power or no. We don't have to convert mages, we could train them.

Why spend time and actions training a mage? Barrier Jacket, Flight, shields, or just a simple ranged attack. Any one of these would make a halfway powerful parahuman, added to a parahuman and they are suddenly much more capable.

But this is all only useful after this whole Butcher thing is resolved, and maybe even further down the line if things go really badly.
 
Hoyden said:
Why spend time and actions training a mage? Barrier Jacket, Flight, shields, or just a simple ranged attack. Any one of these would make a halfway powerful parahuman, added to a parahuman and they are suddenly much more capable.
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... did you miss what the FAQ said about non-device mages, have no idea how non-device mages work in Nanoha, or not understand a powerful parahuman looks like?
 
Always Late said:
... did you miss what the FAQ said about non-device mages, have no idea how non-device mages work in Nanoha, or not understand a powerful parahuman looks like?
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*picks up squirt bottle* Be nice.

That being said, @Hoyden, @Always Late does have a point. When I said a non-Device mage would be limited, I wasn't kidding. You would need someone with a very powerful Linker Core to make training them to do magic all on their own worth the hassle, and at that point giving them a Device would likely outweigh the benefit to having them keep their shard-powers unless you were dealing with an obscenely strong parahuman, a Tinker who likes tinkering, or someone whose powers fit a particular niche.
 
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Yeah, thanks for clearing that up and it makes sense.
We only really see Yuuno and maybe Lindy* as deviceless mages in the series but then they are both rather powerful, if not as overpowered as Nanoha, Fate and co.

I guess I just liked the idea of Danny being less squishy, despite not knowing his mage potential status. Back on the shelf with it I suppose.**

*I'm fairly sure she didn't use a device, but it's been years since I saw the relivent scene.
**Shelf of odd ideas item six thousand and seventy two.
 
Hoyden said:
I guess I just liked the idea of Danny being less squishy, despite not knowing his mage potential status.
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Always Late said:
If you're a Worm cape, and not a Brute, can make forcefields, or have a Changer state that protects you, you are a squishy.
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LESS squishy is certainly a possibility. Low-level Brute is even a possibility since a Barrier Jacket is a basic skill that would be accessible without a Device. It's just that a Barrier Jacket by itself, or basic flight by itself, or a shooting spell by itself does not a powerful parahuman make.

I know it may sound like I'm contradicting myself here, but hear me out. Would learning magic without a Device give a parahuman, any parahuman, an edge compared to being without? Obviously. It's one more trick up their sleeve, and I'm not nearly enough of an asshole to trick you into doing something that makes the game more difficult. Just don't expect them to be throwing around Divine Busters, and don't expect it to be the thing that turns them into someone along the lines of Myrddin or Chevalier or Lung. And also don't expect them to have a large number of even basic skills. If they have a Linker Core strong enough that they can fly and hold a Barrier Jacket and use a basic shooting spell, a Device would almost certainly give them more battle capability than keeping their shard while casting weakened spells.
 
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Silently Watches said:
I know it may sound like I'm contradicting myself here, but hear me out. Would learning magic without a Device give a parahuman, any parahuman, an edge compared to being without? Obviously. It's one more trick up their sleeve. Just don't expect them to be throwing around Divine Busters, and don't expect it to be the thing that turns them into someone along the lines of Myrddin or Chevalier or Lung. And also don't expect them to have a large number of even basic skills. If they have a Linker Core strong enough that they can fly and hold a Barrier Jacket and use a basic shooting spell, a Device would almost certainly give them more battle capability than keeping their shard while casting weakened spells.
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Hm... about one or two of the three?
 
Always Late said:
Hm... about one or two of the three?
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Depends on the cape in question. One of the three, it might be worth it to keep their shard. That's D- or C-rank mage caliber, which basically means cannon fodder, and they also can't fly, so they don't even have that boost to mobility. Two of them (B- to A-rank), a Device is already probably an even trade or slightly superior. And if they're AA or higher, who get three spells even without a Device? Like I said, think twice only if you're dealing with the best of the best of the cape world.
 
...wait. @Silently Watches , I thought the reason why Taylor doesn't have her parahuman lobe was because Perfect Storm doesn't like to share and disabled it himself.

Shouldn't giving devices to potential and current parahumans be non-issue if they were designed to leave it alone?
 
Scope said:
...wait. @Silently Watches , I thought the reason why Taylor doesn't have her parahuman lobe was because Perfect Storm doesn't like to share and disabled it himself.

Shouldn't giving devices to potential and current parahumans be non-issue if they were designed to leave it alone?
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Short answer: No.

Long answer: IC, Taylor has a withered Corona/Gemma because the telepathic connection between her and Storm momentarily crossed over with the telepathic connection between her and Queen Administrator. Device telepathy is more powerful because it is so much more blatant and doesn't have to hide itself, and that much activity was too much for the brain tumors and burnt them out.

OOC—
landcollector said:
Maybe, but that would break game balance imo, so I don't think that would be allowed.
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… … …

I see where I'm not wanted. :p But yeah, this.
 
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Silently Watches said:
Long answer: IC, Taylor has a withered Corona/Gemma because the telepathic connection between her and Storm momentarily crossed over with the telepathic connection between her and Queen Administrator. Device telepathy is more powerful because it is so much more blatant and so doesn't have to hide itself, and that much activity was too much for the brain tumors and burnt them out.
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I'll accept that Devices and Parahumans don't mix well, but there is no way I can believe that with QA's ability to clone Taylor's mind between a quadrillion to a googol times to individually completely control anything under her thrall and then feed that information back to Taylor's brain is weaker than Device telepathy.
 
Scope said:
I'll accept that Devices and Parahumans don't mix well, but there is no way I can believe that with QA's ability to clone Taylor's mind between a quadrillion to a googol times to individually completely control anything under her thrall and then feed that information back to Taylor's brain is weaker than Device telepathy.
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... did you reall- you did. You actually did. Oh-ho-ho-ho man, this is gonna be good.
 
Scope said:
I'll accept that Devices and Parahumans don't mix well, but there is no way I can believe that with QA's ability to clone Taylor's mind between a quadrillion to a googol times to individually completely control anything under her thrall and then feed that information back to Taylor's brain is weaker than Device telepathy.
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Think of it like bandwidth. Doesn't matter if the computer at the other end is the most powerful in existence, if it's a weak connection only so much data can get through. Perfect Storm was able to edge out that connection.
 
MobiusC said:
Think of it like bandwidth. Doesn't matter if the computer at the other end is the most powerful in existence, if it's a weak connection only so much data can get through. Perfect Storm was able to edge out that connection.
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That is true, and you do see that at the end of Worm where that is compensated by encroaching and converting more of Taylor's brain into the parahuman lobes, but that takes A LOT of information/complexity where that actually becomes an issue.
 
Scope said:
I'll accept that Devices and Parahumans don't mix well, but there is no way I can believe that with QA's ability to clone Taylor's mind between a quadrillion to a googol times to individually completely control anything under her thrall and then feed that information back to Taylor's brain is weaker than Device telepathy.
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Here's your problem. Don't confuse QA's multi-tasking and control ability with the connection between Taylor's brainmeats and the shard. Taylor sends a query, QA processes it, QA sends the answer. Taylor sends a command, QA interprets it, QA moves the bug. There's a whole lot more information moving between Perfect Storm and Taylor, which necessitates a stronger connection.

And like you mention yourself, the degree of relay you're talking with controlling people about was too much for the lobes in canon. QA needed to turn more of her brain into shard-tumor to get enough information in and out. Perfect Storm doesn't use a Corona and so lacks the ability to do that, hence the shorting out when the organic component of the shard–host connection was overloaded.
Always Late said:
... did you reall- you did. You actually did. Oh-ho-ho-ho man, this is gonna be good.
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:???:
 
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I mean, Danny is pure Thinker. Even if he can only create a barrier jacket capable of tanking like, a single handgun bullet before breaking, that's pretty useful for him.
 
Scope said:
I'd go with a AC DC voltage incompatibility analogy rather than one being stronger than the other.
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We can go with that, then. :)

Let's be honest. We're talking about how one imaginary process would interfere with another imaginary process. At the end of the day, we're both talking out our asses, and this is very much the end of my day. I'm actually typing this on my phone in bed because I'm going to sleep as soon as I hit post reply. The important part is that in this game, cape to mage is an irreversible decision.
 
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