Lex Sedet In Vertice: A Supervillain in the DCU CK2 quest

What sort of tone should I shoot for with this Quest?

  • Go as crack fueled as you can we want Ambush Bug, Snowflame and Duckseid

    Votes: 30 7.7%
  • Go for something silly but keep a little bit of reason

    Votes: 31 7.9%
  • Adam West Camp

    Votes: 27 6.9%
  • Balanced as all things should be

    Votes: 195 50.0%
  • Mostly serious but not self-involvedly so

    Votes: 73 18.7%
  • Dark and brooding but with light at the end of the tunnel

    Votes: 12 3.1%
  • We're evil and we don't want anyone to be happy

    Votes: 22 5.6%

  • Total voters
    390
  • Poll closed .
Also something I'd like to mention for consideration, when I was working on a plan, I put Mari and Jinx on enchanting the tower, due to coop/stats/Mari being direction to Jinx's magic, but also because Mari was the one trying to be there for Jinx, before Cerise started trying to pull her to her side. I'm pretty sure if the rune is dangerous to Jinx, Mari will be the first to plant her fist in Cerise's head:
HM.

In-ter-est-ing...

Hm. Mari+Jinx on the Enchant action would remove some of my qualms, since we'd at least HAVE a magic-user on the action.

And I'm sure I can scrape up a fourth reasonably useful hero unit on the What Are Those Runes action.
 
[X] Plan PLANNAME

@Simon_Jester could you add Jade to the Kryptonite weapons option? She isn't assigned yet and she wasn't last turn either, she could add +10 to the roll and we'd get some information on her preferences to what kind of actions she'd be willing to work on. I think she'd like creating and modifying weapons.
 
In the personal action description of Cerise Jinx is happy with the runes. She fully trusts Cerise and thinks that she is helping her. I think this this trust and belief in Cerise means she won't help us in investigating the rune. Why would she? Obviously Cerise did this to help her control her powers so nothing more needs to be found out. I could see her adding a negative or simply not adding her score at all.
Well, how does she feel about the other people on the project? It's led by Dr. Helfern, who she trusts and likes and has known at least as long as she's known Cerise.

Admittedly, she doesn't get along great with Dr. Helfern or with Rebecca. But I'm pretty sure she'd trust Pamela to take her to Rebecca to get the runes looked at.

Do you even know the wards we are missing out on right now? The current wards that we have researched, but haven't applied are Anti-demon wards, Inscription runes, Shield wards, and Bad intent monitoring wards.

Personally I think the bad intent monitoring wards are time critical. Not only for helping catch Cerise in case she pulls anything like Cold Engine bomb again, but for other mundane employees to in case some employees from The Menagerie still hold their ideals or grudges against the rich.
I'm aware that we have a variety of wards we're missing out on, but "you fail, try again next turn" doesn't automatically cascade into a disaster because of that. To be fair, if you're right about "expand McCabe Fashion" being this thing we randomly decided to do NOT to appease Mari... well, the issue wobbles a little.

More than that we have no indication that Mari has low loyalty right now. Give me a sign that Mari has low loyalty and then I'll believe that your action choice is justified, but currently I don't see that.
...Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the honest impression that Mari was the one who insisted on the fashion action this turn? I'm a bit surprised it got so much support if that's not the case.

I am deeply worried about failing. I would rather guarantee the success than make the gamble at all on an action this important.
We have no way of guaranteeing success when we don't even know the DC. Conversely, we have no reason to assume the DC is massively high other than "we don't know what it is without trying to find out."

Honestly, though, what it comes down to for me is that I think the "make good first impression on Black Adam" action has JUST AS MUCH need-to-succeed and to go very well as the "find out what these runes do" action. A mediocre result on "befriend Black Adam" is a huge potential opportunity cost compared to a high-scoring success, potentially closing down entire categories of anti-Superman actions in the future.

Lex should, in general, be put on the most important action we take in any given turn. I think that forming an alliance with Black Adam, a morally gray character with Superman-level strength who's willing to make moral compromises but also pretty reliable about honoring his bargains, is more important than figuring out what the runes do specifically this turn, given that most of the possible answers to "what do these runes do" are potentially important but not necessarily urgent.

While this is irrelevant to the plan creation I just wanted to note that I already know about the various hero combinations and how to game the mechanics. I think that's pretty clear from my calculations on how to maximize Lex's chances of success on studying magic:
I see your calculations; I never saw them before that I can recall and don't read every page of commentary while trying to oversee a gradual moving of house while working a full time job.

On the other hand, I'm also pitching such discussions to the audience.



...With all of this being said, I'm open to the idea of putting Mari+Jinx on the "enchant tower" action and trying to scrape together the best available other Learning hero for "so what do these runes do." We still get a pretty good chance of reroll on "so what do these runes do," and we have a pretty assured success on "enchant tower."
 
[] Plan PLANNAME

@Simon_Jester could you add Jade to the Kryptonite weapons option? She isn't assigned yet and she wasn't last turn either, she could add +10 to the roll and we'd get some information on her preferences to what kind of actions she'd be willing to work on. I think she'd like creating and modifying weapons.
Sure, I'll do that along with other edits soon, but I want to see what other people think about my idea described in my previous post, first.
 
...Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the honest impression that Mari was the one who insisted on the fashion action this turn? I'm a bit surprised it got so much support if that's not the case.
She didn't demand it. In fact Mari hasn't demanded any actions on a while. Hell we even had her design high fashion last turn and she didn't demand that either. She is very well taken care of right now.

I can't speak on why people choose it since it wasn't in my voting option. I would guess a combination of people just copy pasting from someone else and choosing a low DC action they liked since we were faced with several high/??? DC options that we wanted to concentrate heroes on this turn.

I'm pretty monofocused on this quest. I read a few others and vote casually (basically no discussion or debate in those). If you ever want to know what demands/requests there are feel free to ask me. I can also try to post as fast as possible after each action phase threadmark about the demands/requests we have with no other commentary. To give thread members a clear reference each turn
 
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Appreciated.

Well, I'll put Mari+Jinx on "Enchant tower," then, and rummage up a fourth Learning booster for "what do those runes do."

I'm not putting Lex+Cass on "what do those runes do," though; someone else already has a plan for that.

...

EDIT:

I'm realizing that by putting Jinx on ANYTHING other than the "Atomic Skull" action, I lose that banter and social media angle with Mick. I'm regretting/missing that and torn about what to do.
 
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@Simon_Jester Mick and Jinx sound like a good combo for atomic skull nemesis action, Mari alone could do well on the enchanting action, I was just making the comment that both could work well together on it and why based on previous interactions between the two. Sorry if it looks like I'm editing this a lot.
 
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Mick and Jinx sound like a good combo for atomic skull nemesis action, Mari alone could do well on the enchanting action, I was just making the comment that both could work well together on it.
Yeah, it's just frustrating. We've got a lot of things going on at a time, basically.



OK, so I did, as requested, put Jade Crock on "create kryptonite weapons."

@Torgamous , since our current consensus is still "help SCU catch Ultra-Humanite," I haven't put Marie on the action. Perhaps that's regrettable, but I'd feel like it was a significant and arguably bad-faith change in the plan to switch that around now. Though we should seriously consider it in the future... and maybe now, if anyone's interested and the vote doesn't close before we get the chance to rethink it. I want to put that to all the voters when I tag them about changes to the plan, below.

As for Jinx... I thought about it, and thought about it, and... honestly, I am more excited by the prospect of seeing what happens when Jinx and Mick work together on the Atomic Skull merchandise action, than I am about the success of this specific iteration of the Enchant Tower action. I'm putting Mari on it so we don't get some kind of critical failure, as several people requested... And then I'm putting Jinx right back where she was.

The 'runes' action is tricky. Gonna be honest, I'm thinking we should maybe have put that off a turn until it was easier to build collaborations around it. Rebecca really doesn't have good co-op scores, for starters. :(

I reshuffled. Pamela's still in charge because she's among our least-bad choices for leading a Learning collaboration. Karl's there because he works well with Pamela. Rebecca's there because set a wizard to catch a wizard. Caitlin has a decent (0.7) collaboration score with Pamela and good Learning, so she's my current pick for the fourth slot, bringing the combined bonus to a +60 (probable reroll, unlikely to totally embarrass themselves with a critical failure unless the DC is STUPIDLY high).

Buuut that means Caitlin isn't there to pad out Lex+Cass's diplomacy roll with Black Adam, which I regard as the single most critically important action of the turn, simply because of the probable long-term ramifications. If we fail to enchant the tower or track Cerise, we just keep trying. Even If Jinx gets stolen away from us somehow, we can find other occultists who will be at least competent; it's not inherently a game-reshaping disaster.

But making a critical-hit explosively good first impression with Black Adam could be a game-altering moment for us, given what a powerhouse he is. Definitely a big step forward if we ever want to put together a Legion of Doom.

So I need someone to fill the gap in the Diplomacy check. To bring a +82 up to something in the upper nineties but not over 100. Which means, ironically, that my usual go-to for this, Marie is too good. Paige Monroe would be perfect if not for her self-image flaw. Vivian is perfect, except she's a load-bearing component of our "recruit psychologist" action and that team-up falls apart without her and Constance working together. Lucy Lane would be perfect, but she's on that same team... who can replace her...

Ah-HA! Carol Ferris. Diplomacy 10, co-op with Vivian of 1.2, adds +12 to the die roll. We get our strong Black Adam diplo team, at a cost of -4% chance of success on the psychologist action and, admittedly, losing Carol on the 'planes' action. She'll probably want to go back to planes again soon, and I for one am fine with that, but for now... works.

Guh.

@Gumiho
@binaryGiant
@Lord Ultimus
@ThatGuyWithIdeas
@Silvereagle21
@HavocOrder0999
@Lockheart
@robofin117

I've changed a bunch of little stuff around. Thought I should tag you all as a courtesy.
 
@Simon_Jester It is a lot of sensitive actions on one turn, when I saw we had high DC actions, DC ??? actions, and meet Black Adam to cover, this was my face :o
I've looked over the plan and the changes, looks good, but you have Jinx on both the enchanting and atomic skull actions, I agree with keeping her with Mick on the nemesis action.

I just had the thought that when we have a turn without too many big actions or fires to put out, we could take
[ ] [Jinx] Buy Jinx a pet
DC 2 (Stewardship) While you aren't overly fond of Jinx buying her a pet of some kind could cause her to become more closely endeared to you. And a loyal minion is far more useful than a resentful minion
and adding Mari to the action for best results. She has 18 stewardship and wants Jinx to succeed :D

or we can take
[ ] Build a training room
DC 32 Building a room where you can allow your more uniquely skilled individuals to train to their hearts content could prove quite useful. Of course the room would have to be quite advanced and contain numerous traps in order to challenge individuals like Mari, Cassandra, Pamela and Jinx but you are sure you could manage to make something truly impressive
Its a Stewardship action and Mari (+18) and Jinx (+11) both on the action would give good results, and hopefully gets Jinx away from Cerise for a bit.
 
@Simon_Jester It is a lot of sensitive actions on one turn, when I saw we had high DC actions, DC ??? actions, and meet Black Adam to cover, this was my face :o
Yeah, I know.

Although honestly I think we've all been very paranoid about DC ??? actions. I suspect a lot of them are less difficult than we think, and that we're more failure-averse than is best for us. But that's me.

I've looked over the plan and the changes, looks good, but you have Jinx on both the enchanting and atomic skull actions, I agree with keeping her with Mick on the nemesis action.
Dammit I thought I fixed that. nemesis it is.
 
@Simon_Jester I might be wrong but I think that your maths for Lex and Cassandra taking the Black Adam action is off

If I'm right Cassandra's traits mean that she gets +4 Diplomacy on any action she takes with her dad and +7 Diplomacy on any action involving conversation

So the calculation for that roll should be: 18 + 7 + 4 = 29, 29 X 2 = 58, 58 + 35 + 7 = 100
 
It's a lot harder to pivot from getting someone arrested to hiring them than the other way around.
If I were hearing more voices in favor of diplomacy, I'd go for it as the option.

I think the quest is collectively afraid of bad press from associating with other supervillains; I do worry that this may eventually make it harder for us to accomplish certain goals, though it correspondingly reduces our exposure risks to other things.

This is one reason I consider the Black Adam connection so important; he's one of the "cleaner" quasi-villainous individuals, in addition to being a powerhouse of high order.
 
Just a heads up on how things are going. I expect that I'll be getting personal actions 23 up in a bit (I expect to have it done before 6 pm PST) so I recommend you vote soon if you want to participate in that.

Next the schedule of content for October is tentatively as follows barring some delays due to classes starting up is as follows:
  • Turn 23 Results Part 1, October 13th 5-10 pm PST
  • Untitled as of now Scooby-Doo non-canon omake, October 14th 6-9 pm PST
  • Turn 23 Results Part 2, October 16th 3-10 pm PST
  • Going over some older content posts to bring them in line and add new information, October 16th
  • Turn 23 Results Part 3, October 17th
  • Turn 23 Results Part 4, October 18th
  • Untitled Omake about vampires or the Creature Commandos
  • Turn 23 Results Part 5, October 20th
  • Action phase 24, October 22nd
  • Hero vote 24, October 24th
  • Personal actions 24, October 26th
  • Turn 24 Results Part 1, October 27th
  • Turn 24 Results Part 2, October 28th
  • Turn 24 Results Part 3, October 29th
  • Turn 24 Results Part 4, October 30th
  • Maybe something else Halloween related, October 31st
Be aware that this schedule is liable to shift and that I've got a few things in the works (character analysis/my takes on a few specific characters, the next episode in the Secrets and Lies in Jump City-verse titled Scavenger Hunt and a community event) that might pop up but I haven't scheduled a set time for. Plus if people purchase omakes I'll alter some of the side stuff I work on and if life gets hectic I'm liable to drop or delay things. That being said I kind of want to get back to a faster grind and so I'll be writing a touch more regularly now.
 
This is one reason I consider the Black Adam connection so important; he's one of the "cleaner" quasi-villainous individuals, in addition to being a powerhouse of high order.
Plus he tends to end up tuning his own country which would be extremely useful for us

By the way, did you see the post I tagged you in earlier about the maths on putting Lex and Cassandra on the Black Adam action?
 
If I were hearing more voices in favor of diplomacy, I'd go for it as the option.

I think the quest is collectively afraid of bad press from associating with other supervillains; I do worry that this may eventually make it harder for us to accomplish certain goals, though it correspondingly reduces our exposure risks to other things.

This is one reason I consider the Black Adam connection so important; he's one of the "cleaner" quasi-villainous individuals, in addition to being a powerhouse of high order.
Personally I would love to be more diplomatic with supervillains. I think the thread doesn't mind working with super villains either, just not ones in Metropolis. Since the thread has invested so heavily in the police and being the "good guy" of Metropolis I think people are more hesitant to tarnish that.

But if we look outside of Metropolis we have much more super villain connections. Penguin, The Menagerie, Vertigo, Bane and The League of Shadows are all people we have worked or made deals with. As soon as it is outside of Metropolis the thread is much more willing to make deals or take risks. Unfortunately most Nemesis actions deal with super villains inside of Metropolis so the thread is generally more hesitant being diplomatic with them.
 
Personally I would love to be more diplomatic with supervillains. I think the thread doesn't mind working with super villains either, just not ones in Metropolis. Since the thread has invested so heavily in the police and being the "good guy" of Metropolis I think people are more hesitant to tarnish that.

But if we look outside of Metropolis we have much more super villain connections. Penguin, The Menagerie, Vertigo, Bane and The League of Shadows are all people we have worked or made deals with. As soon as it is outside of Metropolis the thread is much more willing to make deals or take risks. Unfortunately most Nemesis actions deal with super villains inside of Metropolis so the thread is generally more hesitant being diplomatic with them.
Personally I'm more than happy to work with some Metropolis based supervillains but my preferred approach would be to build and run our own metahuman prison and talk with them using that as a front
 
In regards to the roll, we have an example we can look at from last turn:
[ ] Head to Azarath
DC 45
Roll 47 + 35 (Lex Luthor diplomacy stat) + 44 (Cassandra diplomacy stat plus trait times coop score with Lex Luthor) -88 (Azarath shield interference) + 7 (Lex Luthor trait)
Total 45
Bare success
Cassandra's diplomacy is 18, and I believe the two relevant traits are
Living Weapon: In Martial rolls involving direct combat add 15 to Cassandra's martial stat after the cooperation score is factored in. In rolls that involve conversation give Cassandra + 7 to diplomacy and + 5 to intrigue
Like Father Would: Add 4 to Cassandra's diplomacy if she is assigned to the same action Lex is

On the Azeroth roll since Lex and Cassandra bumped into the shield, and there was no conversation involved, Cassandra only provided (18+4)*2=44. If Cassandra does get to speak when meeting Black Adam the boost should be (18+4) * 2 + 7= 51
So 51 + Lex's 35 diplomacy = 86 (before Lex's bonuses, with the +7 its 93)
with Carol its 86 + 10 = 96 (+14 Luthor trait for 110, but Lex's trait doesn't affect the math for a reroll so we're clear)

@King crimson just want to check, the diplomacy and intrigue boost from living weapon factor in after the co-op boost, same as martial, or before and they get affected by co-op boost? Also will the trait The Evil to Surpass AT&T trigger on monitoring Cerise with Marie having the co-op requirement even though she doesn't lead the action?
 
@King crimson just want to check, the diplomacy and intrigue boost from living weapon factor in after the co-op boost, same as martial, or before and they get affected by co-op boost? Also will the trait The Evil to Surpass AT&T trigger on monitoring Cerise with Marie having the co-op requirement even though she doesn't lead the action?
The living weapon trait triggers after co-op calculations. And no The Evil to surpass AT&T doesn't trigger if the hero leading has a coop score of less than 1 with Lex Luthor.

With hindsight that trait is a little bit outdated and should probably be polished a touch more to bring it in line with other traits (name change and some clarification on how it works).
 
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In regards to the roll, we have an example we can look at from last turn:

Cassandra's diplomacy is 18, and I believe the two relevant traits are



On the Azeroth roll since Lex and Cassandra bumped into the shield, and there was no conversation involved, Cassandra only provided (18+4)*2=44. If Cassandra does get to speak when meeting Black Adam the boost should be (18+4) * 2 + 7= 51
So 51 + Lex's 35 diplomacy = 86 (before Lex's bonuses, with the +7 its 93)
with Carol its 86 + 10 = 96 (+14 Luthor trait for 110, but Lex's trait doesn't affect the math for a reroll so we're clear)

@King crimson just want to check, the diplomacy and intrigue boost from living weapon factor in after the co-op boost, same as martial, or before and they get affected by co-op boost? Also will the trait The Evil to Surpass AT&T trigger on monitoring Cerise with Marie having the co-op requirement even though she doesn't lead the action?
In that case we're probably better off having Carol do something else, she might not tip the roll over 100 but with Lex's bonus just he and Cass are likely enough to get a crit by themselves and we'd probably be better off having Carol on something else
 
Having Leonard Snart do it with three or more of the Rogues gives him more of a boost from his leadership trait than he'd get from The Evil to Surpass AT&T anyway.
 
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