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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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[X] Ashen Shadow Art

I'm fine with either FS or ASA right now- ISA just seems to be a waste.

As for the appeal to ASA? Every time we've fought with Meizhen we've seen implications that certain Qi constructs can benefit from each other. Not only that, but an art that further blinds and debilitates another is huge and has nice synergy with our current debuff abilities. To say nothing of the fact ASA is the only art here that hints at handsfree weaponized constructs which is pretty much the holy grail for us.
 
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[X] Ashen Shadow Art

I love all of these arts. I can not stress that enough. The Falling Star Art reduces their movement speed, which synergizes so well with ZB that it makes me cry with joy. The reduced movement speed means we can snipe them for longer and the armor piercing means that we do more damage and we also disrupt what they do. It looks fantastic and we should totally get the 2nd level of this art if possible when we have accesses to the Moon Glade area. I think that getting it right now would be awesome, but we don't have a good bow to really do the art justice yet.

The Ice Wraith art looks interesting and provides for physical defense from toxins and the like while at the same time providing what appears to be armor piercing. Unfortunately, it doesn't quite provide either the utility that I would be looking for or the damage, I would have to wait on this one for a later time (or see if there is a better one in a higher level of the archives). What does give it advantages over the other options is that once FVM is set up, this art will allow us to cut through their defenses while still taking some of their damage.

Ashen Shadow Art. Now, it doesn't deal extra damage (that we know of) which is a problem for it. However, it is another debuffing art that looks like it blinds and debilitates the people in our mists, while also allowing for the construction of ash constructs at later levels (which seems awesome). It is melee range, as people have pointed out, but we are at the very edge where we can expect people to just wait in our mists and not try to engage us in melee combat. The blinding and choking aspects of this art look amazing as it will allow us to hit with our other arts more frequently allowing us to deal more damage in that regard.

The rippling lake art doesn't seem as interesting to me right now, but would definitely be something we should pick up later to have in our repertoire. Right now, we have a lot of arts that debuff and hurt groups of opposing parties, but no arts that really help our allies in a fight that much. It would be nice to have that option later.

All in all, love all of these arts and choosing between them is going to be extremely difficult. I'm choosing Ashen Shadow Art right now over Falling Star art for a couple of reasons. Ashen Shadow Art is trainable right now, meaning we won't lose the bonuses from the pills that we took this turn. The unfortunate thing is that it is melee, but that is merely using the strikes to drain the heat from the target and debilitate them that way, not what the trail of ash can be used for. I would like to present them with the conundrum of fighting us at range, where we have advantages through SCS and our talent with bows, while engaging us in melee runs the risk of getting blinded and choked or fighting the various ash constructs that we can create and "summon" (which synergizes with Dissonance multi-attacker bonus).

(Also, for anyone familiar with Garden of sinners, being able to create ash creatures in the mist that are 1. unable to communicate 2. changing forms 3. unkillable, is a recipe for being a monster. I want to become a monster of the mists.)
 
Ice wraith is pretty tempting, but I'm wary of going too deep into Water/Wind without getting some other elements to balance it out. I do want Falling Stars as soon as possible but tactically it's better to wait a few weeks until we're closer to getting the wolfs' meadow.

So for now:
[x] Ashen Shadow Art

We can use it without our hands, it synergises well with our build, is a fire-art to balance our water-arts and is an actual attack art.
 
Would ASA run into issues with human opponents that prepared dispels and the like for use against FVM? Both of them are somewhat similar in nature - at their current levels at least.

Regarding FSA, depending on how bright it is (I'm leaning towards very) it could possibly disrupt our ability to use SCS if we ever have to fire it at mid range.
 
[x] Ashen Shadow Art

Really hard choice.

Falling Stars would be great if we had some kind of hands-free option for FVM, Rippling lake looks damn nice.
 
Right now, I think the quest we need to ask ourselves is: "Do we want to improve our current combat style, or shift away from it?

Our current combat style is using FVM to debuff our enemies and SCS+dodge+stealth to kite them, and then down our enemies either through direct attacks or via a combination of their own Qi expenditures and FVM's attrition abilities. Clearly, the last step here is somewhat iffy; we don't have the capacity to properly deal with our enemies after we've started kiting them, which is why our current approach to combat is kind of awkward.

The current arts offer us several approaches to make our combat less awkward.

The Falling Star Art offers a simple and direct approach - drop the kiting thing and apply damage directly. This can be used before we set up FVM to have our enemies start off damaged and weakened, or after we get FVM up so our enemies are weakened by its debuffs. However, in both cases, this relegates FVM to a side role; depending on the circumstances we may choose to focus on FSA or FVM, using them together provides minimal synergy.

The Ice Wraith Art makes us better at attrition warfare while giving us the ability to cut through our opponents' defenses when we want to move in for an attack. Damage and physical-debuff mitigation means that we can afford to take a few hits, which lends a great deal of robustness to our combat style. And the attack capabilities means that we actually have an attack booster to rely on when we want to speed up our fight.

The Ashen Shadow Art makes us better at this kiting by giving us both debuffs and attacks that we can do without needing to stop playing. And like the Ice Wraith art, it also provides a direct damage booster if we need it. This also synergizes with FVM, but this time it does so by making our debuffs more debillitating instead of improving our ability to withstand whatever our enemies toss out through said debuffs.
 
My only problem with ashen and falling stars is that they fail to address our major melee weakness.

[x] Ice Wraith Art

I am all for getting two of these in a short order
 
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Mhmm, had dinner first, curse you @yrsillar for making me pick between my ulcers and this. :p

Anyway, one thing I would like to be considered is that some of the Techniques would be limited in duration and might only affect a single attack or all attack on a single turn, and thus requires more Qi to be spent if one wants to spam those Techniques.

Guiding Zephyr is one such example.

About the Arts themselves:

- Falling Stars: It is a very direct Art and it is still lovely.
-- I want the FS Art, even if I suspect the Qi expenditure being high, if we want to spam the Techniques.
-- Piercing, slow debuff, and Qi (effect unclear) debuff? The last two makes the Art possibly being affected by Exotic Talent.
-- And all packaged into a (Combat) Mastery that Ling Qi has a Talent for? Terrific.

- Ice Wraith: A bit... Meh, to me.
-- It has Piercing, it gives Soak Damage to the user, and can slow or disrupt Poison or other Debuffs.
-- But we're not too sure about how effective is Soak in regards to Qi/Damage ratio...
-- And it is packaged into Slashing melee. We might pick up a sword, if only for the noble culture, but I don't really see Ling Qi delving deep into it.

- Ashen Shadow: Very fascinating to me.
-- It is melee Art, yes, but it does not specify which, so we probably can use it with Unarmed.
-- It does not have Piercing, sadly, but it has a Physical Debuff. No mention of additional damage though?
-- Ash might work like Mist, in regards to making Low Light condtion. On top of that, considering Ling Qi's control with Wind, the Ash Constructs might be easier to use as well. Possible combinations with SCS and FVM makes it a strong contender against FS.
-- Too bad the possibility that any Art that can Dispel Qi Constructs or push away Mist probably would be able to do the same with Ash.

- Rippling Lake: Uh, I want this, sure. But it is not really what we're looking for right now.
-- It is another Team Art. We want Solo Art, right now.
-- Gives calm and tranquility... I suppose this is like the one that blue-glove girl use? Stops fear and other mind-affecting effects, at a guess.
-- Wearing away defense and will of enemies... It sounds like a combo of Meizhen's fear aura and Diapasson? It mentions Defense, but not clear on which.
 
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PrimalShadow said:
The Falling Star Art offers a simple and direct approach - drop the kiting thing and apply damage directly. This can be used before we set up FVM to have our enemies start off damaged and weakened, or after we get FVM up so our enemies are weakened by its debuffs. However, in both cases, this relegates FVM to a side role; depending on the circumstances we may choose to focus on FSA or FVM, using them together provides minimal synergy.
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I disagree with this analysis for a couple of reasons. The main reason that I disagree is that FSA decreases their movement speed, which is a picture perfect example of how to kite better. If they have reduced movement speed, they can't keep up with us, they can't catch us, and they have to deal with us at range where we would have the advantage. I don't think it regulates FVM to a side role because it allows us to set up a killer combo with FVM. FVM sets up the debuffs and distracts them while we prepare to take them down quickly with FSA. FSA also allows us to attack them from range, depleting their qi before they even enter the mists, meaning that dispell options are more dangerous for them to use, as it would use up, even more, qi before they even fight with us. All in all, FSA synergizes well with our current build, in my opinion.
 
Ashen Shadow, depending on how it works, may SERIOUSLY cover our melee weakness.

It looks to have weapon-construct and summon functions.

IE: Creating flying swords and meat shields.

It doesn't have a focus on damage boosts, but it'll still have some, and since it uses the ash trail we can keep up mist while using it, stacking multi-attacker penalties with Dissonance.
 
PrimalShadow said:
"Do we want to improve our current combat style, or shift away from it?
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Why not both? No, seriously. With the ability to switch arts in event time and the correct arts, we can easily change our arts with the needed situation.

For example, we can get two hand/spine arts for normal use, then when we need a beatdown we can switch to a double spine for defense and double hand art for attack and beat someone in.

This isn't perfect, but as long as we have a few core survival arts we should be able to manage in the event of surprises.
 
pheonix89 said:
Ashen Shadow, depending on how it works, may SERIOUSLY cover our melee weakness.

It looks to have weapon-construct and summon functions.
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Yeah, forcing people to go through ash constructs before they even reach us is another major appeal to this art. They can't engage us effectively in melee if they are being pounded on all sides by ash creatures, or if we send a wave of ash towards their eyes and disappear in a swirl of shadow.
 
Thor's Twin said:
Yeah, forcing people to go through ash constructs before they even reach us is another major appeal to this art. They can't engage us effectively in melee if they are being pounded on all sides by ash creatures, or if we send a wave of ash towards their eyes and disappear in a swirl of shadow.
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And once we hatch our dragon-turtle dude they'll have to deal with those constructs interfering with attempts to fight him.
 
pheonix89 said:
And once we hatch our dragon-turtle dude they'll have to deal with those constructs interfering with attempts to fight him.
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In an ideal scenario with Ash Shadow art, the dissonance of the mists would attack first, then an ash construct or two (creating the multiple attacker penalties), then our tortoise, and then we finish up the round for the sweet debuffs because of multiple attackers.
 
Guys, the last thing we need is another debuff art! We need to be able to have a hammer blow against our opponents. That's what most of our trouble has been-we just don't have a way of putting our enemies down quickly when they're already disoriented and confused, meaning more clashes, meaning more chances to lose, or for our opponents to try something clever! Come on, you wouldn't make a rouge without Backstab, why cripple our chances like this?
 
Hangwind said:
Come on, you wouldn't make a rouge without Backstab, why cripple our chances like this?
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I don't think it is crippling our chances though. We will still have the ability to get the Falling Stars art, probably even in the near future if we want to work towards it, so it wouldn't be crippling for us. Your right that the Ash Shadow art is another debuff art without granting extra damage and that is a point against it, but the possibility of getting ash constructs is enticing and synergizes well with our build.
 
About Falling Star, I think we won't change it into a Main Art.

It (probably) offers great damage and debuff, but at a (probably) prohibitive Qi expenditure a shot/a turn. I purport that we might use it as an ambush, first strike, or opening in combo with SCS passives, then if the target(s) survive, kite them in the Mist.

Or do the reverse, in case we are the one being ambushed: put them all in the Mist, and then take out the elites with this Art.

Ashen Shadow's main weakness is that it mostly depends on Qi Construct that probably is as light as the Mist, thus making it weak to both Dispel Techniques and techniques that can push very light Qi Constructs away (Heijin's Wind attack, Hong Lin's Earth Wave attack, etc.).

Of interest though, it has Save-or-Suck effects (blind/choking hazard) just from manipulating the Ash (unclear if it is a Technique or if Ling Qi can use her Wind Control on it), the possibility of further Construct shapes, and the possible synergy with the Tyrant Volcano Tortoise x Vibrant Whatever Lizard hybrid spirit she has.
 
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