@Katreus Thanks for the hard work! I haven't looked at it closely yet, but it looks nice and will probably read well. It will be nice to have a chart to see the more abstract growth we have engaged in rather than just looking at the cultivation levels and numbers.
I wouldn't be quite that confident. Arts are a great equalizer - and without knowing how the are specced I wouldn't be surprised if a dozen enemies couldn't put together enough bullshit magic to complicate our life.
The big issue for us would be art that target resolves. While we have AM and are Yellow, that still means that we could end up blowing a lot of Qi. Still not a dealbreaker, but combined with other surprises it could be dangerous.
There's also the Formations user who could have trapped the place, and the fact that they knew our capabilities and possibly brought counters. Something like a high level dispel art stored in a Qi card.
It's what I would do if I was facing off against a 2nd Realm Cultivator.
Those are actually good things for us. Formation user can easily be turned against them as we are stealth-based, and we have AM to get out of traps. As for Qi Dispelling... why is it an issue to cast the mist again for 1Qi? It just means a free card if we manage to win.
Basically, they don't know our actual capabilities, and thinking dispels are good against us is one of the traps I expect they might fall into.
Eh, I would be surprised if she had more then Average Talent. She's been working with us for a while now, and we're probably a five dot tutor for physical since breaking through to silver, and she isn't at peak physical yet. She does well because she's studious and hard working. She doesn't waste opertunities.
I suspect Su Ling has higher talent as she's keeping up with Suyin while basically taking multiple jobs a turn from the start, and not using any tutors. That says 6 at least. I wouldn't be suprised if she's 7 actually, and just doesn't do things efficiently at all.
Not to mention Suyin is probably about to lose some talent via personal demons when she breaks through.
We hit peak at week 13 with really good resources, great trainers, and a number of lucky breaks. Su Ling didn't start cultivating earilier then us, so she's not like Han Jian's group. She's matching Suyin and Suyin is doing good but not great, so I'm pretty sure she's higher talent then Suyin, and I don't think Suyin is below a 5.
And we just got a huge hint from Meizhen's interlude one way you can lose talent.
That's the standard 'personal demon' way of losing talent that exists in a lot of Xianxia, and Suyin's current mindset is very much at a bad point for that. She needs to feel like she can stand on her own, that she can pay her debts, both good and bad, before she breaks through.
She doesn't have to have gotten her revenge, but she must feel she will be able to. She doesn't need to feel she's squared with us, but she needs to feel she'll be able to. Or she's going to damage herself.
Wait, what? Ok, lemme check. Yes, no mentione of Su Ling beginning from the start like that. OTOH, we know that she had her own fox-special art as well as meridian opened at birth. So I'll hazard that she has been awakened for years.
Moreover, The blurbs we got about Li Suyin as much as said she was getting much better. They have been saying Li Qing was suprised at how fast she is learning physical cultivation, and she is learning multiple things and is ready to break through yellow soon... which usually take much, much longer.
I'm also surprised you are thinking Li Qing is that good a teacher, especially when we have been using Elixir from forever, and Su Ling has been using those too.
Now, do I think Su Ling has Talent 4? no. She might even have Talent 6, who knows. But there is no hint whatsoever about it so far, given that while we know commoners that are unawakened invited in the sect are usually very talented, Su Ling almost certainly was both awakened and not a 'commoner' given her spirit ancestry. There probably are special rules there. OTOH, it's as likely the special rules are 'no spirit ancestry unless nobles or really, really talented'.
As for Li Suyin, given she isn't a real noble and came unawakened, she most likely is high Talent... even if we dismissed how incredibly fast she has progressed.
The big issue for us would be art that target resolves. While we have AM and are Yellow, that still means that we could end up blowing a lot of Qi. Still not a dealbreaker, but combined with other surprises it could be dangerous.
Really, anything where we don't get to use our cultivation bonus would be a problem. I think some Resolve tests can do that, like you said. Having our enemies buff each other would also work, since it would hurt us in clashes without giving us a chance to resist (since it works by boosting our enemies, not hurting us).
Really, anything where we don't get to use our cultivation bonus would be a problem. I think some Resolve tests can do that, like you said. Having our enemies buff each other would also work, since it would hurt us in clashes without giving us a chance to resist (since it works by boosting our enemies, not hurting us).
@Katreus, that chart is super awesome! Almost every week, Ling Qi is either breaking through into the next level of her base cultivation or mastering the next level of one of her arts. I wonder how everyone else is doing...?
Relatedly, anyone notice that Gu Xiulan doesn't seem to have broken through to Silver yet?
Not much. Breakthroughs are personal experiences and rely on personal talent, personal luck, and personal drive to succeed. The best thing we can do is be supportive of her and allow her to push herself to succeed. She now has the elixirs to help recover from failed cultivation attempts, but that is the most we can do for her.
Not much. Breakthroughs are personal experiences and rely on personal talent, personal luck, and personal drive to succeed. The best thing we can do is be supportive of her and allow her to push herself to succeed. She now has the elixirs to help recover from failed cultivation attempts, but that is the most we can do for her.
Well, hopefully by spending time with her we can head off any resentment that she might be experiencing. The best way to know what someone is feeling is by spending time with them and talking to them. We have ok social now so we should be able to pick up any resentment that she might be feeling.
Ah. Well, I think we have a bit of a difference of opinion on a couple things here: post's exact contents broken down by tricholysis into:
1. Exact nature of the shortsighted attack art voteplan
2. 'Pattern of engagement vs. backup tool' dichotomy in attack art purpose
3. Quality of arts
Well, I already knew about those aspects of the discussion. I know I'm not as prolific or standout as some posters but I have been around and about. Like I said, it's a matter of strategic differences rather than any of the specifics. I'm not in a big rush and when I play strategy games I turtle a lot.
So explain this to me.
What's the difference in 'arming time' between Getting Armed and Preparing to Learn? A week? Ling Qi gets a tool for one more week of use? But it's a worse-scaling tool. Is she even using it, that she needs it this one week earlier? No, Cai's mission isn't an event. Isn't that the epitome of short-term gain for long-term loss? Picking up something weaker in the long run for a gain that...you don't use? I am absolutely quizzical about this.
You say that your plan is to go for lucky opportunities and whatnot:
I am a strong believing in "having something that is better than we need now is better than getting something better in a month but losing out all the lucky encounters and conflict we might have had in the meantime".
First of all, Getting Armed has one week more of the use of the future art. Not a month. Preparing for Learning is a plan working towards an archive visit Week 19, not Week 22. What are you doing with the art in that week? Maybe the mission not being an event doesn't mean that it isn't a fight, so that would be some marginal use of this art. But you said that having this art unrestricts what Ling Qi can do in the future. And you're doing the same thing as otherwise! Having the 'unrestricted' choice set doesn't matter if you don't use it. You posit gains from something and then don't use them! If you're going to go with the 'prep to be aggressive, take opportunities, push' plan then you need to actually take opportunities and you need to actually push!
How does it unrestrict what Ling Qi and the thread is confident in doing if you don't actually take any more missions? All you're doing is Cai's job and cultivation! Having that art won't help cultivation and Cai's job isn't an opportunity that the thread is unconfident about. Are you afraid that next week there'll be a mission the thread doesn't want to take because they're not sure about what their theoretical art does or something?
If I turtle too much then this is just ridiculous! In, say, Civilisation terms, you're building improvements on all your empty tiles. Theoretically the building improves the yield of the tile but you don't have the population actually available to work that tile yet. It doesn't quite fit. It's a waste of worker turns in Civilisation. Here it's a somewhat subpar art in Ling Qi's lineup.
You do address this somewhat by insisting first archive arts are 'competitive at red' with FVM:
Third is, I think, a difference of opinion on the quality of arts in the first floor. It's been confirmed we can find art that are of the same quality, for red, as FVM/SCS (as FVM/SCS are special for later on stuff). So it's actually very much worth it to pick up a level 1 art as it can be a competitive art for our 'main arts' for the forseeable future, and by the time it's not anymore, we can either get the level 2 archive upgrade (if we want to) or simply get a level 3 archive arm art.
Okay, suppose I accept that 'FVM's red levels are approximately equal to arts on the first floor'. So what? First of all, Ling Qi's not red anymore. To say that 'there are arts competitive at red with FVM' says nothing about yellow...where she is. Then you admit it might not scale rather explicitly, by saying that we can just visit the archive in the future...which is the Preparing For Learning plan. What are you doing in the meantime? You say there's opportunities but don't go looking for any. Instead you close Ling Qi's doors and have her practice what she already has. What's that extra first-floor art doing for her in the week's difference? Heck, is it even a week? If Ling Qi picks an art she doesn't have the meridians open for (possible) then she doesn't actually have that extra week of having the art.
Honestly I don't imagine FVM and SCS to be as far above the competing arts as most Xianxia protagonists' goodies. After all, a spirit literally just dropped by and said 'hey, that trick you've got, that trick that's just like mine? ye come back when you gitgud' and Hanyi confused FVM for her mother's arrival. What's special about FVM and SCS and EPC is that Ling Qi has access to them at all and they're a great coherent fit for her, rather than their power, IMO. So I want to do the same for her holdout Plan B, or anything she intends to incorporate into her basic engagement pattern.
So it follows that I expect any art we get from the archive to be 'competitive at red' (whatever that means) or so with FVM, first or second floor. It will only scale into being competitive in her yellow micro-action economy after she grabs some levels in it.
It's not that I imagine all second arts are magically a tier above everything else or anything. Getting Armed isn't actively harmful like the previous attack art push plan. 'Quality of art', if such a thing can be quantified, is not my priority. A Wind/Water two-meridian art from the first floor is probably pretty good for Ling Qi and pretty well suited for her...but we're not at red anymore. 'Competitive at red', while not a term I'm sure I fully understand, is not the most important quality anymore. I think scaling is.
Super long term: Say that Ling Qi invests successes in a first-floor art, which is 'competitive at red', and to make it competitive at yellow she needs it near max layers. That's, say, as many successes as FVM. The highest she could have gotten that art was measure 3, which is 15/25/35 successes if I remember correctly. Unapply 'exotic talent' and Ling Qi has invested 20+30+40 successes into making this first-floor art competitive at yellow. Great, time passes, and she uses it. Doesn't matter what for. Then she upgrades to a third- or second-floor art later. Taking Argent Mirror as my example of a 'yellow' art, which is generous I think, that's another 20/30/whatever successes invested into a replacement for her first-floor art. Where do the 90 successes into the first-floor art go?
Getting Armed is 'intended to' open more opportunities but doesn't actually take or make any in the one week headstart it has the extra art. Why didn't Ling Qi just go to the second floor and put successes into the second art in the first place? What purpose does this first-floor art serve? Please tell me. Cai's mission doesn't need it, I don't think. If we assume that it's a fight but not an event, then either Ling Qi is up against a lower cultivator who is especially skilled in stealth, enough to outdo Cai's perception when Cai is much higher in cultivation, or Ling Qi is up against a peer of Cai's. The problem in neither of these cases is a lack of an attack art. Unless Ling Qi has an evil twin, and it's a peer of Ling Qi's who's somehow ducked under the radar for forever, in which case Mom has some explaining to do.
This is my point: if an art is 'competitive at red' with FVM's red levels, then great...! ...For a red cultivator. Which Ling Qi isn't anymore.
You've somehow elided that 'at red' part of your 'competitive at red' statement and turned it into 'competitive with FVM'.
Why go to lower tier arts? It's not exactly hard to get twenty or thirty sect points. Why be skittish in spending them? They're not doing anything unless you spend them. You don't float resources, or money, you spend them. If it's the aggressively take opportunities plan then why is Getting Armed so skittish about using the opportunities for arts that sect points create?
Can 'red' arts be relevant at that level? Sure. If she has the first-floor art it won't do nothing. Even Guiding Zephyr, Ling Qi's lamest tech, has some circumstances where it's useful. Will a first-floor art be competitive at yellow? ...less clear. Not clear at all, actually. Why do the fiddly 'first-floor art then replace' manuever? It's probably not a total waste but it certainly could be better. So explain to me, please, exactly what opportunities you're taking and making in this one week, or explain why you think my 'one week' is wrong, or whatever.
I do want something like a Wind/Water two-or-more-meridian art, but I want it to be sure to be 'competitive at yellow', ya know?
Maybe I'm cutting you up a little too much and have become a little incoherent. But you're not making much sense to me. Your earlier posts about Li Suyin definitely read wrong. Like, you couldn't have intended what I read. It's like that. You and I are just not having that meeting of the minds that communication is meant for.
And a lot of the 'but if we get the base version of the art before working on a continuation it'll be +1 compared to otherwise' reasoning/speculation is just nonsense to me. It's just made up wishful thinking, like the 'if we get one of every meridian type...!' sort of thing that was bandied about around breakthrough time. Or the 'if we had TEN meridians...!' wishful thinking/harmful back-speculation. It was 'threshold passed'. Yes, you can read that as 'a threshold' or 'the threshold'. This is why the indefinite and definite articles exist, to eliminate confusion (and because they have etymological inertia through English's Indo-European lense, but...).
Well, hopefully by spending time with her we can head off any resentment that she might be experiencing. The best way to know what someone is feeling is by spending time with them and talking to them. We have ok social now so we should be able to pick up any resentment that she might be feeling.
Hopefully she'll manage her breakthrough to silver this week. She doesn't have something like the Argent Vent, so her cultivation is probably much much slower than us, but with her pills as long as she didn't have a horrible roll she should be getting back up
Well, I already knew about those aspects of the discussion. I know I'm not as prolific or standout as some posters but I have been around and about. Like I said, it's a matter of strategic differences rather than any of the specifics. I'm not in a big rush and when I play strategy games I turtle a lot.
So explain this to me.
What's the difference in 'arming time' between Getting Armed and Preparing to Learn? A week? Ling Qi gets a tool for one more week of use? But it's a worse-scaling tool. Is she even using it, that she needs it this one week earlier? No, Cai's mission isn't an event. Isn't that the epitome of short-term gain for long-term loss? Picking up something weaker in the long run for a gain that...you don't use? I am absolutely quizzical about this.
You say that your plan is to go for lucky opportunities and whatnot:
First of all, Getting Armed has one week more of the use of the future art. Not a month. Preparing for Learning is a plan working towards an archive visit Week 19, not Week 22. What are you doing with the art in that week? Maybe the mission not being an event doesn't mean that it isn't a fight, so that would be some marginal use of this art. But you said that having this art unrestricts what Ling Qi can do in the future. And you're doing the same thing as otherwise! Having the 'unrestricted' choice set doesn't matter if you don't use it. You posit gains from something and then don't use them! If you're going to go with the 'prep to be aggressive, take opportunities, push' plan then you need to actually take opportunities and you need to actually push!
How does it unrestrict what Ling Qi and the thread is confident in doing if you don't actually take any more missions? All you're doing is Cai's job and cultivation! Having that art won't help cultivation and Cai's job isn't an opportunity that the thread is unconfident about. Are you afraid that next week there'll be a mission the thread doesn't want to take because they're not sure about what their theoretical art does or something?
If I turtle too much then this is just ridiculous! In, say, Civilisation terms, you're building improvements on all your empty tiles. Theoretically the building improves the yield of the tile but you don't have the population actually available to work that tile yet. It doesn't quite fit. It's a waste of worker turns in Civilisation. Here it's a somewhat subpar art in Ling Qi's lineup.
You do address this somewhat by insisting first archive arts are 'competitive at red' with FVM:
Okay, suppose I accept that 'FVM's red levels are approximately equal to arts on the first floor'. So what? First of all, Ling Qi's not red anymore. To say that 'there are arts competitive at red with FVM' says nothing about yellow...where she is. Then you admit it might not scale rather explicitly, by saying that we can just visit the archive in the future...which is the Preparing For Learning plan. What are you doing in the meantime? You say there's opportunities but don't go looking for any. Instead you close Ling Qi's doors and have her practice what she already has. What's that extra first-floor art doing for her in the week's difference? Heck, is it even a week? If Ling Qi picks an art she doesn't have the meridians open for (possible) then she doesn't actually have that extra week of having the art.
Honestly I don't imagine FVM and SCS to be as far above the competing arts as most Xianxia protagonists' goodies. After all, a spirit literally just dropped by and said 'hey, that trick you've got, that trick that's just like mine? ye come back when you gitgud' and Hanyi confused FVM for her mother's arrival. What's special about FVM and SCS and EPC is that Ling Qi has access to them at all and they're a great coherent fit for her, rather than their power, IMO. So I want to do the same for her holdout Plan B, or anything she intends to incorporate into her basic engagement pattern.
So it follows that I expect any art we get from the archive to be 'competitive at red' (whatever that means) or so with FVM, first or second floor. It will only scale into being competitive in her yellow micro-action economy after she grabs some levels in it.
It's not that I imagine all second arts are magically a tier above everything else or anything. Getting Armed isn't actively harmful like the previous attack art push plan. 'Quality of art', if such a thing can be quantified, is not my priority. A Wind/Water two-meridian art from the first floor is probably pretty good for Ling Qi and pretty well suited for her...but we're not at red anymore. 'Competitive at red', while not a term I'm sure I fully understand, is not the most important quality anymore. I think scaling is.
Super long term: Say that Ling Qi invests successes in a first-floor art, which is 'competitive at red', and to make it competitive at yellow she needs it near max layers. That's, say, as many successes as FVM. The highest she could have gotten that art was measure 3, which is 15/25/35 successes if I remember correctly. Unapply 'exotic talent' and Ling Qi has invested 20+30+40 successes into making this first-floor art competitive at yellow. Great, time passes, and she uses it. Doesn't matter what for. Then she upgrades to a third- or second-floor art later. Taking Argent Mirror as my example of a 'yellow' art, which is generous I think, that's another 20/30/whatever successes invested into a replacement for her first-floor art. Where do the 90 successes into the first-floor art go?
Getting Armed thinks they open more opportunities but doesn't actually take or make any in the one week headstart it has the extra art. Why didn't Ling Qi just go to the second floor and put successes into the second art in the first place? What purpose does this first-floor art serve? Please tell me. Cai's mission doesn't need it, I don't think. If we assume that it's a fight but not an event, then either Ling Qi is up against a lower cultivator who is especially skilled in stealth, enough to outdo Cai's perception when Cai is much higher in cultivation, or Ling Qi is up against a peer of Cai's. The problem in neither of these cases is a lack of an attack art. Unless Ling Qi has an evil twin, and it's a peer of Ling Qi's who's somehow ducked under the radar for forever, in which case Mom has some explaining to do.
This is my point: if an art is 'competitive at red' with FVM's red levels, then great...! ...For a red cultivator. Which Ling Qi isn't anymore.
You've somehow elided that 'at red' part of your 'competitive at red' statement and turned it into 'competitive with FVM'.
Why go to lower tier arts? It's not exactly hard to get twenty or thirty sect points. Why be skittish in spending them? They're not doing anything unless you spend them. You don't float resources, or money, you spend them. If it's the aggressively take opportunities plan then why is Getting Armed so skittish about using the opportunities for arts that sect points create?
Can 'red' arts be relevant at that level? Sure. If she has the first-floor art it won't do nothing. Even Guiding Zephyr, Ling Qi's lamest tech, has some circumstances where it's useful. Will a first-floor art be competitive at yellow? ...less clear. Not clear at all, actually. Why do the fiddly 'first-floor art then replace' manuever? It's probably not a waste but it certainly could be better. So explain to me, please, exactly what opportunities you're taking and making in this one week, or explain why you think my 'one week' is wrong, or whatever.
I do want something like a Wind/Water two-or-more-meridian art, but I want it to be sure to be 'competitive at yellow', ya know?
Maybe I'm cutting you up a little too much. But you're not making much sense to me. Your earlier posts about Li Suyin definitely read wrong. Like, you couldn't have intended what I read. It's like that. You and I are just not having that meeting of the minds that communication is meant for.
And a lot of the 'but if we get the base version of the art before working on a continuation it'll be +1 compared to otherwise' reasoning/speculation is just nonsense to me. It's just made up wishful thinking, like the 'if we get one of every meridian type...!' sort of thing that was bandied about around breakthrough time. Or the 'if we had TEN meridians...!' wishful thinking/harmful back-speculation. It was 'threshold passed'. Yes, you can read that as 'a threshold' or 'the threshold'. This is why the indefinite and definite articles exist, to eliminate confusion (and because they have etymological inertia through English's Indo-European lense, but...).
You are entitled to your own opinion regarding the Art structure, but I firmly disagree with the notion that a pure second floor art is just as good as first floor art that was upgraded to second floor. It's a matter of foundation. When you start off with a weak art to build a foundation, you can build on that foundation to make an even stronger art. If you start off with a strong art, you have less of a foundation to work with, and it takes a shorter time, therefore; using game logic, because this IS a game; the art that starts off weak and grows stronger logically has more potential than one that starts off strong.
You might not agree with me, I don't particularly care. I'm not trying to convince you at this point. We know from experience that Yrsillar has been fair to us, and investing more time into the progression of an art should logically make it stronger than starting off strong.
Hopefully she'll manage her breakthrough to silver this week. She doesn't have something like the Argent Vent, so her cultivation is probably much much slower than us, but with her pills as long as she didn't have a horrible roll she should be getting back up
From a game play point she probably rolled badly...from a story pov, maybe that comment from bai about having option for her fiance messed with her head a bit . Because she i's in a forced arranged marriage with a guy who while not the worst guy out there (he worships her) isn't Han Jian
Well, I already knew about those aspects of the discussion. I know I'm not as prolific or standout as some posters but I have been around and about. Like I said, it's a matter of strategic differences rather than any of the specifics. I'm not in a big rush and when I play strategy games I turtle a lot.
So explain this to me.
What's the difference in 'arming time' between Getting Armed and Preparing to Learn? A week? Ling Qi gets a tool for one more week of use? But it's a worse-scaling tool. Is she even using it, that she needs it this one week earlier? No, Cai's mission isn't an event. Isn't that the epitome of short-term gain for long-term loss? Picking up something weaker in the long run for a gain that...you don't use? I am absolutely quizzical about this.
No, not a week. The difference is at least 2 weeks, probably 3.
No only that, but it's not picking up something weaker in the long run as far as we know, given all hints toward lower archive art being upgradable... but even if it is, the time won means that it's worth it.
First of all, Getting Armed has one week more of the use of the future art. Not a month. Preparing for Learning is a plan working towards an archive visit Week 19, not Week 22. What are you doing with the art in that week? Maybe the mission not being an event doesn't mean that it isn't a fight, so that would be some marginal use of this art. But you said that having this art unrestricts what Ling Qi can do in the future. And you're doing the same thing as otherwise! Having the 'unrestricted' choice set doesn't matter if you don't use it. You posit gains from something and then don't use them! If you're going to go with the 'prep to be aggressive, take opportunities, push' plan then you need to actually take opportunities and you need to actually push!
How does it unrestrict what Ling Qi and the thread is confident in doing if you don't actually take any more missions? All you're doing is Cai's job and cultivation! Having that art won't help cultivation and Cai's job isn't an opportunity that the thread is unconfident about. Are you afraid that next week there'll be a mission the thread doesn't want to take because they're not sure about what their theoretical art does or something?
That's because it's not just one week, and the difference is not just the art itself. It means getting mid-yellow a week later, and it means losing a lot of sect job points and losing a lot of cultivation too.
Let me break it down:
Plan Getting Arm, in week 19, can do disappearance or unique monster mission, as well as can get to mid yellow if we want (we won't).
Plan learning better, in week 19, will have to do more mission for less sect job in order to get an arm art in week 20.
In week 20, plan Getting Arm can get a archive level 2 art while still having better rolls for everything and continue doing mission than plan learning better cannot yet do.
Plan learning better, in week 20, might or might not manage to get the arm art it wants, given it will have a higher threshold to learn it and less dice to learn it than Getting Arm at week 20.
So, even if we choose to switch the arm art we get in 'plan getting arm' in week 20, the same week plan learning better might get it, we will have better roll for learning it and we will have better resources and better everything else. Of course we shouldn't switch it but instead finish learning it and get the upgrade much later.
You do address this somewhat by insisting first archive arts are 'competitive at red' with FVM:
Okay, suppose I accept that 'FVM's red levels are approximately equal to arts on the first floor'. So what? First of all, Ling Qi's not red anymore. To say that 'there are arts competitive at red with FVM' says nothing about yellow...where she is. Then you admit it might not scale rather explicitly, by saying that we can just visit the archive in the future...which is the Preparing For Learning plan. What are you doing in the meantime? You say there's opportunities but don't go looking for any. Instead you close Ling Qi's doors and have her practice what she already has. What's that extra first-floor art doing for her in the week's difference? Heck, is it even a week? If Ling Qi picks an art she doesn't have the meridians open for (possible) then she doesn't actually have that extra week of having the art.
She does have the extra week of having the art, as we can open the meridian in week 19 and then do missions then. Moreoever, this is assuming all the art of level 1 stops at peak red. Even if they do, though, they would still be better than the first level of a floor 2 art... which we could also get faster with plan getting armed.
Honestly I don't imagine FVM and SCS to be as far above the competing arts as most Xianxia protagonists' goodies. After all, a spirit literally just dropped by and said 'hey, that trick you've got, that trick that's just like mine? ye come back when you gitgud' and Hanyi confused FVM for her mother's arrival. What's special about FVM and SCS and EPC is that Ling Qi has access to them at all and they're a great coherent fit for her, rather than their power, IMO. So I want to do the same for her holdout Plan B, or anything she intends to incorporate into her basic engagement pattern.
So it follows that I expect any art we get from the archive to be 'competitive at red' (whatever that means) or so with FVM, first or second floor. It will only scale into being competitive in her yellow micro-action economy after she grabs some levels in it.
It's not that I imagine all second arts are magically a tier above everything else or anything. Getting Armed isn't actively harmful like the previous attack art push plan. 'Quality of art', if such a thing can be quantified, is not my priority. A Wind/Water two-meridian art from the first floor is probably pretty good for Ling Qi and pretty well suited for her...but we're not at red anymore. 'Competitive at red', while not a term I'm sure I fully understand, is not the most important quality anymore. I think scaling is.
Super long term: Say that Ling Qi invests successes in a first-floor art, which is 'competitive at red', and to make it competitive at yellow she needs it near max layers. That's, say, as many successes as FVM. The highest she could have gotten that art was measure 3, which is 15/25/35 successes if I remember correctly. Unapply 'exotic talent' and Ling Qi has invested 20+30+40 successes into making this first-floor art competitive at yellow. Great, time passes, and she uses it. Doesn't matter what for. Then she upgrades to a third- or second-floor art later. Taking Argent Mirror as my example of a 'yellow' art, which is generous I think, that's another 20/30/whatever successes invested into a replacement for her first-floor art. Where do the 90 successes into the first-floor art go?
Getting Armed thinks they open more opportunities but doesn't actually take or make any in the one week headstart it has the extra art. Why didn't Ling Qi just go to the second floor and put successes into the second art in the first place? What purpose does this first-floor art serve? Please tell me. Cai's mission doesn't need it, I don't think. If we assume that it's a fight but not an event, then either Ling Qi is up against a lower cultivator who is especially skilled in stealth, enough to outdo Cai's perception when Cai is much higher in cultivation, or Ling Qi is up against a peer of Cai's. The problem in neither of these cases is a lack of an attack art. Unless Ling Qi has an evil twin, and it's a peer of Ling Qi's who's somehow ducked under the radar for forever, in which case Mom has some explaining to do.
This is my point: if an art is 'competitive at red' with FVM's red levels, then great...! ...For a red cultivator. Which Ling Qi isn't anymore.
You've somehow elided that 'at red' part of your 'competitive at red' statement and turned it into 'competitive with FVM'.
Why go to lower tier arts? It's not exactly hard to get twenty or thirty sect points. Why be skittish in spending them? They're not doing anything unless you spend them. You don't float resources, or money, you spend them. If it's the aggressively take opportunities plan then why is Getting Armed so skittish about using the opportunities for arts that sect points create?
Level 1 archive art scale just fine though? What's the issue there?
It is, though. It is losing weeks of progresses in order to get something that won't be relevant by the time you use it, in your own words. If we focus on waiting till getting level 2 art, we will miss opportunities and simply miss cultivation to a degree that if we hadn't we would have not only gotten the level 1s but would be now on level 3s.
I do want something like a Wind/Water two-or-more-meridian art, but I want it to be sure to be 'competitive at yellow', ya know?
Maybe I'm cutting you up a little too much. But you're not making much sense to me. Your earlier posts about Li Suyin definitely read wrong. Like, you couldn't have intended what I read. It's like that. You and I are just not having that meeting of the minds that communication is meant for.
And a lot of the 'but if we get the base version of the art before working on a continuation it'll be +1 compared to otherwise' reasoning/speculation is just nonsense to me. It's just made up wishful thinking, like the 'if we get one of every meridian type...!' sort of thing that was bandied about around breakthrough time. Or the 'if we had TEN meridians...!' wishful thinking/harmful back-speculation. It was 'threshold passed'. Yes, you can read that as 'a threshold' or 'the threshold'. This is why the indefinite and definite articles exist, to eliminate confusion (and because they have etymological inertia through English's Indo-European lense, but...).
Probably not, because I also want it to be competitive at yellow, and it's doing it. It's doing it quicker than waiting for archive level 2 art for it. There are priorities, here, and stalling everything for weeks has more effect than "one week behind".
Yeah, it will not be "+1", what it will be is "there is a reason the foundation art exist". Does it mean they will be better than others? no. But it at least means that beginning from the start will be competitive with simply getting an art that's only archive level 3 art.
EDIT: let me put it another way: If we had gotten an arm art in the plan a few weeks ago, we couldn't have won the tag game with Hannyi, and we couldn't have EPC next week, and so on. This is not just '1 week'. This is a strictly inefficient plan.
You are entitled to your own opinion regarding the Art structure, but I firmly disagree with the notion that a pure second floor art is just as good as first floor art that was upgraded to second floor. It's a matter of foundation. When you start off with a weak art to build a foundation, you can build on that foundation to make an even stronger art. If you start off with a strong art, you have less of a foundation to work with, and it takes a shorter time, therefore; using game logic, because this IS a game; the art that starts off weak and grows stronger logically has more potential than one that starts off strong.
You might not agree with me, I don't particularly care. I'm not trying to convince you at this point. We know from experience that Yrsillar has been fair to us, and investing more time into the progression of an art should logically make it stronger than starting off strong.
I was a proponent of getting a upgradable first floor art, but if we go for that we should pick up something that's at the upper limits of the first floor, rather then a middle of the road art.
Her vulgar behavior was also frustrating at times, she wondered sometimes if the other girl had been raised by wolves, like some barbarian legend, but it was not her place to pry into personal matters.
So I really want to open up to Meizhen but can't imagine a natural segue. At least our talks with her are starting to branch beyond her just instructing us. Kinda sad how bluntly she can drop us being her first friend/she worried Ling Qi doesn't listen to her tutoring/that she seems to consider it fact that we'll be great but Ling Qi would be too awkward to do the same. Love 'em both anyway
She had grown far too attached to an outsider, too invested in her well being. The Bai had been shown time and again, that they could only rely on themselves.
She turned her attention back to the clay, once again pursing her lips. It was fine though, Ling Qi could stand on her own, and even had the attention of the Cai heiress. They could remain in contact even after parting ways, and Bai Meizhen would not have to show such a glaring weakness to her family.
I'm sure there's lots of good reasons not to but I really want to follow Meizhen back to her province as soon as we can. The chapter didn't necessarily suggest to me that there wasn't any white cultivators, just that Suzhen breaking through would restore a degree of honour/prestige to her clan, but there seems to be a lot of room to grow there still. Both in general space, with the loss of vassals, and in the upper echelons. Plus we get to be with Best Snek and prove to her people can be dependable! Really love that she'd want to stay in touch regardless though, getting warm fuzzies imagining how concise and stilted letters from her would be, very slightly less worried about getting to Inner Sect now too.
I was a proponent of getting a upgradable first floor art, but if we go for that we should pick up something that's at the upper limits of the first floor, rather then a middle of the road art.
Well, we're checking out all the available arts that fit the criteria. Then we'll get a couple of choices. I'm sure some of them would meet your standards.
Well, we're checking out all the available arts that fit the criteria. Then we'll get a couple of choices. I'm sure some of them would meet your standards.
