Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

I feel as though the Bai have quite a few ports. My belief is based off of the conversation Meizhen had with LanLan when Ling went shopping with them. Meizhen talked about expanding the Pearl industry on some of their islands. This tells me that they have more than 1 island and therefore more than 1 port. Now I don't know the size of these ports. They could be really small. However with access to the best wood in the empire those ports could explode in size. Something to keep in mind as more of the political side is revealed and begins to move.
Ah! That's an interesting point. Hadn't even thought about the idea they might have islands (silly of me, really). The critical bit for my logic, though, is the port (or ports) on the mainland. That's what the Jin are so jealous about. I wonder if the Jin have significant island holdings.
 
Emulate? Not in any sort of "I want to be like you" way... but some of her peers might be saying "Wait. How did she *do* that?" followed somewhat later by "Huh. Okay. That's interesting. Is there any way I can take advantage of those ideas myself?" It might see them attempt to unbend enough to get a few more allies/minions/acquaintances from out-of-clan (with varying degrees of success). If nothing else, having a Cai Robe was a pretty obvious buff, and one that clearly came from her relationships with others. Allies can be useful. Who'd have thought?

That depends on what they credit victory to.
Is it the Bai secret spiritual poison formula weakening Liling in a way she can't resist?
Is it the power of Bai Suzhen's Abyssal Mantle?
Is it the Heartbreak Phantasm giving her action economy?
Is it keeping one of your elements secret for an entire year to pull out at the tournament finale?
Is it the Cai robe?
Is it Earth arts?

Two of five answers say that the victory is for the Bai by the Bai.
One of five answers is a traditional Bai snekpit strategy, if difficult to pull off.
Two of five answers are untraditional, but not unprecedented.

What do they think?

I feel as though the Bai have quite a few ports. My belief is based off of the conversation Meizhen had with LanLan when Ling went shopping with them. Meizhen talked about expanding the Pearl industry on some of their islands. This tells me that they have more than 1 island and therefore more than 1 port. Now I don't know the size of these ports. They could be really small. However with access to the best wood in the empire those ports could explode in size. Something to keep in mind as more of the political side is revealed and begins to move.

Could be lake islands and freshwater pearls, but yeah. Reasonable
 
I feel as though the Bai have quite a few ports. My belief is based off of the conversation Meizhen had with LanLan when Ling went shopping with them. Meizhen talked about expanding the Pearl industry on some of their islands. This tells me that they have more than 1 island and therefore more than 1 port. Now I don't know the size of these ports. They could be really small. However with access to the best wood in the empire those ports could explode in size. Something to keep in mind as more of the political side is revealed and begins to move.
I'm going to expand more on this a bit, as I believe that it is actually important for the political landscape in the relatively near future.

We know the Jin don't like the Bai because the Jin's monopoly of Imperial Ports is interrupted by the Bai.
"But I have not answered your question, have I?" Cai Shenhua mused. "It is true that the Sun are dangerous and powerful. Sun Shao retains many friends in Celestial Peaks, and the Jin stand firmly on his side, forever jealous as they are of their absolute control of the empires harbors being interrupted by the Bai.
This makes the Jin natural allies of the Sun because they both hate the Bai, as Cai Shenhua points out.

However, the Jin have enough control over the Imperial Ports that regular trade which doesn't move through the Bai can be heavily regulated by them, allowing them to make immense profits at the expense of those who need the materials, whatever those materials may cost.
"Enough words have I spoken of the avaricious Jin already," the man replied, briefly glancing at Ling Qi. "Mine brother and I trust that the withered channels tying the great wood seas to the harbors of the north shall see their blockages crumble."
This means that Xuan... really don't like the Jin as they see the Jin profiting off of the Xuan's need and suffering. With the Cai/Bai alliance, the next reasonable entity to join would be the Xuan because they can make the most out any trade route moving the wood from the Emerald Seas to the Savage Seas. By circumventing the trade routes that the Jin control, a Cai/Bai/Xuan alliance can make profits and strengthen their respective provinces while demonstrably hurting a province that will most likely ally against them.

If the Bai open up those supposed ports they have to more trade and traffic, and move away from stifling isolationism, then more wealth can flow through the Thousand Lakes Province meaning that the Bai have more wealth to throw around for political maneuvering and recovering from the devastation they suffered as a result of the Sun Shao Crusade.

Additionally, the Xuan will have more wealth to throw around as well, because they won't be spending it all on buying wood from Jin controlled ports, and that wealth can be used for political maneuverings or even taking even more control of the Savage Seas and reducing piracy ensuring more trade and more wealth.

The Cai will gain strong allies in the Bai and the Xuan, both ancient clans with a lot of history and power, to help stabilize and legitimize the Cai more recent ascension. Furthermore, a Cai/Bai/Xuan trade route will give a huge market for goods produced in the Emerald Sea, from wood to gems to be shipped from the south all the way to the North without the heavy control and taxation that the Jin seem to place on prized goods.

Ideally, this carves a new channel for goods to flow diverting wealth away from presumed enemies of the new alliance while strengthening the members of the said alliance.
 
Ah! That's an interesting point. Hadn't even thought about the idea they might have islands (silly of me, really). The critical bit for my logic, though, is the port (or ports) on the mainland. That's what the Jin are so jealous about. I wonder if the Jin have significant island holdings.

You are right about mainland ports being far more important than island ports for the movement of goods and thus money in a primarily land based empire. However on further thinking another interesting idea comes up. Ports in a non death world serve to protect ships from the elements. FOD is a death world. Ports could also serve to be safe spots from death world dangers. The safest point in FOD might not be from A to B. The safest path might be from A to C then to B. I can see there being spirits like sirens and such that make hugging the coast a bad idea as well as deep sea monsters that make it dangerous to go to far away. Ports then offer safety from these aspects. The Jin may control more mainland ports but if the safest path might have to go through Bai controlled island ports.

This makes for very interesting dynamic because shipping, especially mortal shipping, always wants to take the safest route for shipping. In FOD this may mean island hopping until you get a safe shot at the wanted port. Even if Jin control both mainland ports that could be a lot of docking fees and such going towards the Bai.

All of this of course requires some interesting maps. However I believe that the Jin may not need to control each port away from the alabaster sands an instead use their port advantage to leverage good trade deals with everyone else. Of course the Bai don't play their games because they don't care too much about their ports since their land/river sneks. This starts building up bad blood between the two.
 
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I just want to know how much stuff you could transport with a whole ship made for that purpose from the ground up by high level cultivators. We know Meizhen's ring can hold a rather crazy amount of stuff, and the Sect uses space expansion like crazy. How much wood could a Xuan ship ship if a Xuan ship could ship wood?
 
You are right about mainland ports being far more important than island ports for the movement of goods and thus money in a primarily land based empire. However on further thinking another interesting idea comes up. Ports in a non death world serve to protect ships from the elements. FOD is a death world. Ports could also serve to be safe spots from death world dangers. The safest point in FOD might not be from A to B. The safest path might be from A to C then to B. I can see there being spirits like sirens and such that make hugging the coast a bad idea as well as deep sea monsters that make it dangerous to go to far away. Ports then offer safety from these aspects. The Jin may control more mainland ports but if the safest path might have to go through Bai controlled island ports.

This makes for very interesting dynamic because shipping, especially mortal shipping, always wants to take the safest route for shipping. In FOD this may mean island hopping until you get a safe shot at the wanted port. Even if Jin control both mainland ports that could be a lot of docking fees and such going towards the Bai.

All of this of course requires some interesting maps. However I believe that the Jin may not need to control each port away from the alabaster sands an instead use their port advantage to leverage good trade deals with everyone else. Of course the Bai don't play their games because they don't care too much about their ports since their land/river sneks. This starts building up bad blood between the two.
Depends on how 'hot' the seas are. Like, sea gribblies usually can be expected to hold quite large territories(and also be proportionally huge in genre), which in turn means that they can't nail all shipping(or even be necessarily interested in mortal shipping, ).

So you'd have a couple of common-sense models for shipping to follow:
-Small fast blockade runners. These would basically hop from fortified port to fortified port, they don't intend to fight anything, and probably just packs a bunch of lesser cultivators to detect hostiles and propel the vessel. Used for short distance trades and getting one up on competing traders(no doubt theres merchant cultivator families who do this).

-Escorted convoys. Make like WWII shipping, any merchantman on the go is going to be surrounded by a warship escort together with a whole bunch of other trade vessels.

-Curated safe route. If the sea is going to have gribblies anyway, might as well make sure they are YOUR gribblies. Your clan clears out the hostile local beasts/spirits and arranges a suitable schedule of offerings and assistance. This means any of your clan's vassals can use the route, but it's somewhat costly to keep in service, expect taxes...conversely your clan's rivals aren't going to cross except by main force. As a corollary, the descendants of those beasts are not necessarily friendly, so that's future headaches.
--The Bais and the Xuan no doubt are likely to retire some of their deceased or ascended spirit beasts into such zones. Bit hard to contest Bai ports if you can't bypass said ports because frigging sea serpents.
 
Seriously doubt it.
Meizhen mainly became receptive to Earth as a result of Ling Qi's influence on her personality. Note that she had immense difficulty with it at first(we even had a scene where she struggled wo do anything with Earth element at all), but as our friendship progressed so did her skill at it.

The first step of making a Bai good with Earth is to take them out of the Bai environment. Because Earth's qualities include Trust, Unity, Receptivity, and Self Sacrifice.

Which in the Bai's snakepit environment is basically ringing the dinner bell. You need people they can trust and be absolutely sure their trust won't be abused.
Earth strategy is basically Nakama strategy. You stand together.

Meizhen isn't the first Bai earth cultivator. She won't be the last. They're pretty rare, but the family has had thousands of years. You get all *sorts* of freaky mutant one-offs when you have a large family (effectively a smallish nationality, at this point) collect stuff like this for thousands of years.
Meizhen didn't have immense difficulty on Earth art at first, and there is no reason to believe that Bai earth cultivators are pretty rare. That they are not the norm is obvious, but rare? that's pure speculation.

As for Meizhen's Talent with earth, we have WoG that she realised she had immense talent for it from doing Ying's earth art exercise. There is also no reason to believe that Ling Qi had any impact on Meizhen being gifted at earth art, though there could be an argument that without Ling Qi Meizhen would have taken either longer to realise it or would have settled in a classic Bai way before trying Earth arts, making it a no go.
 
That depends on what they credit victory to.
Is it the Bai secret spiritual poison formula weakening Liling in a way she can't resist?
Is it the power of Bai Suzhen's Abyssal Mantle?
Is it the Heartbreak Phantasm giving her action economy?
Is it keeping one of your elements secret for an entire year to pull out at the tournament finale?
Is it the Cai robe?
Is it Earth arts?

Two of five answers say that the victory is for the Bai by the Bai.
One of five answers is a traditional Bai snekpit strategy, if difficult to pull off.
Two of five answers are untraditional, but not unprecedented.

What do they think?
Well, obviously, different cousins are going to draw different conclusions. Actually, I figure they're probably smart enough to see a fair number of things that contributed to her victory, and then winnow them down to those that they feel like they can usefully implement themselves. It's just that there are a *lot* of young Bai out there right now, and between Meizhen clues and the fact that sucking up the the soon-to-be-White Heir is always good, and *Suizhen* is pushing the whole alliance thing... well, I'm thinking that at least a few of the Bai who are required to go off to various sects will go for the "might as well at least try to make a few friends" plan. Whether they'll be successful? Interesting question.

Actually, further thought, wouldn't be surprised if more of the sect-bound Bai wind up at sects in the Emerald Sea, going forward. If you have to leave the home province, better to be in places where you're less likely to get hostility from the locals.
 
Meizhen didn't have immense difficulty on Earth art at first, and there is no reason to believe that Bai earth cultivators are pretty rare. That they are not the norm is obvious, but rare? that's pure speculation.

As for Meizhen's Talent with earth, we have WoG that she realised she had immense talent for it from doing Ying's earth art exercise. There is also no reason to believe that Ling Qi had any impact on Meizhen being gifted at earth art, though there could be an argument that without Ling Qi Meizhen would have taken either longer to realise it or would have settled in a classic Bai way before trying Earth arts, making it a no go.

I swear there was a WoG on Ling Qi's friendship making Earth more viable for Meizhen.
Maybe discord.
-Imperial Eight/Eight Trigrams - Emotional
-Imperial Eight/Eight Trigrams - Self controlled
-Imperial Eight/Eight Trigrams - Devoted
-Imperial Eight/Eight Trigrams - Yielding
-Traditional Five/Wu Xing - Agreeable
-Traditional Five/Wu Xing - Honest
-Traditional Five/Wu Xing - Anxious
-Traditional Five/Wu Xing - Joyful

I mean, she matches nearly none back when she started.
Well, obviously, different cousins are going to draw different conclusions. Actually, I figure they're probably smart enough to see a fair number of things that contributed to her victory, and then winnow them down to those that they feel like they can usefully implement themselves. It's just that there are a *lot* of young Bai out there right now, and between Meizhen clues and the fact that sucking up the the soon-to-be-White Heir is always good, and *Suizhen* is pushing the whole alliance thing... well, I'm thinking that at least a few of the Bai who are required to go off to various sects will go for the "might as well at least try to make a few friends" plan. Whether they'll be successful? Interesting question.

Actually, further thought, wouldn't be surprised if more of the sect-bound Bai wind up at sects in the Emerald Sea, going forward. If you have to leave the home province, better to be in places where you're less likely to get hostility from the locals.
Oh certainly. Being slightly less isolationist, or at least, making some minions allies you can trust would have its value shown and it IS rather practical in the snekpit too to have someone watch your back.

Just that Earth is probably not their favored angle. Exploring their side elemental talents(mind you, theres a significant opportunity cost to doing so because you aren't getting as strong immediately as possible while you try out a spread of elements and figure out whether you have a talent for it) and keeping one affinity secret?
Totally kickass and Traditional to boot.

Though for that Fire(Hate, Resolve, Passion) and Metal(Rationality, Grief, Courage) are probably more common than Earth(Honesty, Anxiety, Joy). Assuming they focus on the Traditional Five axis since from what we've seen the Water and Wood they use are the Traditional version rather than the Imperial.
 
The impression I got was the Meizhen is naturally talented at Earth, but that talent was being suppressed by her anti-earth mindset, which we shifted her away from.

Perhaps another way of looking at it is there are two sources of 'talent' when it comes to elements; born talent and mindset talent, or perhaps nature and nurture. Only be being naturally talented at an element and having the correct mindset to work with it can you use it.

Also of note, I suspect the 'natural' talent may be a combination of innate properties of your mind as well as your body and bloodline; that it might be that Meizhen is a naturally empathetic person and if she were born to another clan she might be one of the more expressive, caring people we know. She just... wasn't, and the Bai beat those natural parts out of her, or rather didn't give them a chance to manifest.

Added onto this, it might be the a natural, innate bodily talent in a certain element and a natural inclination towards certain ways of thinking are in fact the same thing. Complete speculation of course but it would be kinda neat, and if true may indicate the reverse, that bloodline talents also affect the natural mentalities of those with them, which isn't really surprising.
 
I swear there was a WoG on Ling Qi's friendship making Earth more viable for Meizhen.
Maybe discord.
-Imperial Eight/Eight Trigrams - Emotional
-Imperial Eight/Eight Trigrams - Self controlled
-Imperial Eight/Eight Trigrams - Devoted
-Imperial Eight/Eight Trigrams - Yielding
-Traditional Five/Wu Xing - Agreeable
-Traditional Five/Wu Xing - Honest
-Traditional Five/Wu Xing - Anxious
-Traditional Five/Wu Xing - Joyful

I mean, she matches nearly none back when she started.
You mean she matches all but Yielding and Joyful?

The WoG you are probably thinking of is that Meizhen without Ling Qi would have had issues going out of her shell, but as far as I can tell there was nothing about increasing her earth affinity specifically. All I can find about earth art specifically is this:
discord said:
Katreus:ying earth art gives earth walker technique
Yrsillar:More that it showed her that she has a bit of a knack for earth arts
Yrsillar :which she decided to keep in her sleeve
Arkeus: Yrsillar oh right, for Meizhen Ying art was probably a mediocre quality one compared to Bai arts she has access to right?
Yrsillar:It was a decent starter, but once she started getting Bai points for embarassing Sun, she got better stuff
The impression I got was the Meizhen is naturally talented at Earth, but that talent was being suppressed by her anti-earth mindset, which we shifted her away from.

Perhaps another way of looking at it is there are two sources of 'talent' when it comes to elements; born talent and mindset talent, or perhaps nature and nurture. Only be being naturally talented at an element and having the correct mindset to work with it can you use it.

Also of note, I suspect the 'natural' talent may be a combination of innate properties of your mind as well as your body and bloodline; that it might be that Meizhen is a naturally empathetic person and if she were born to another clan she might be one of the more expressive, caring people we know. She just... wasn't, and the Bai beat those natural parts out of her, or rather didn't give them a chance to manifest.

Added onto this, it might be the a natural, innate bodily talent in a certain element and a natural inclination towards certain ways of thinking are in fact the same thing. Complete speculation of course but it would be kinda neat, and if true may indicate the reverse, that bloodline talents also affect the natural mentalities of those with them, which isn't really surprising.
I do think that in some ways the Bai 'nurtured' her earth affinity, what with her devotion to her mom and the self-control it gave her, but yeah.
 
I'm going to expand more on this a bit, as I believe that it is actually important for the political landscape in the relatively near future.

We know the Jin don't like the Bai because the Jin's monopoly of Imperial Ports is interrupted by the Bai.

This makes the Jin natural allies of the Sun because they both hate the Bai, as Cai Shenhua points out.

However, the Jin have enough control over the Imperial Ports that regular trade which doesn't move through the Bai can be heavily regulated by them, allowing them to make immense profits at the expense of those who need the materials, whatever those materials may cost.

This means that Xuan... really don't like the Jin as they see the Jin profiting off of the Xuan's need and suffering. With the Cai/Bai alliance, the next reasonable entity to join would be the Xuan because they can make the most out any trade route moving the wood from the Emerald Seas to the Savage Seas. By circumventing the trade routes that the Jin control, a Cai/Bai/Xuan alliance can make profits and strengthen their respective provinces while demonstrably hurting a province that will most likely ally against them.

If the Bai open up those supposed ports they have to more trade and traffic, and move away from stifling isolationism, then more wealth can flow through the Thousand Lakes Province meaning that the Bai have more wealth to throw around for political maneuvering and recovering from the devastation they suffered as a result of the Sun Shao Crusade.

Additionally, the Xuan will have more wealth to throw around as well, because they won't be spending it all on buying wood from Jin controlled ports, and that wealth can be used for political maneuverings or even taking even more control of the Savage Seas and reducing piracy ensuring more trade and more wealth.

The Cai will gain strong allies in the Bai and the Xuan, both ancient clans with a lot of history and power, to help stabilize and legitimize the Cai more recent ascension. Furthermore, a Cai/Bai/Xuan trade route will give a huge market for goods produced in the Emerald Sea, from wood to gems to be shipped from the south all the way to the North without the heavy control and taxation that the Jin seem to place on prized goods.

Ideally, this carves a new channel for goods to flow diverting wealth away from presumed enemies of the new alliance while strengthening the members of the said alliance.
That does resonate very well with how agreeable the Twin Admirals were with Ling Qi, what with offering to host her and insinuating a potential arrangement with Xuan Shi.

She's basically as good as the Xuan could hope for in a marriage binding them and the Cai closer together as part of a new political alliance.
 
The WoG specifically was in answer to if we had an effect on Meizhen's cultivation:

Yrsillar09/13/2018

Your actions had a pretty significant effect on Meizhen's cultivation, yes

It's a pretty vague answer, but we did have a signfiicant effect on her. The easy answer as to how we effected her would be helping her realise her Earth affinity (and who knows if she would have gotten Ying tutoring without Ling Qi). There could be alternative answers to that however.
 
That does resonate very well with how agreeable the Twin Admirals were with Ling Qi, what with offering to host her and insinuating a potential arrangement with Xuan Shi.

She's basically as good as the Xuan could hope for in a marriage binding them and the Cai closer together as part of a new political alliance.

They were in no way insinuating a marriage with ling qi. Ling Qi is in no way as good as they could do.

Being friendly to a new baroness does not mean they want a marriage with said baroness. They are far more interested in Zhengui then us.
 
Reading in reader mode's 18 pages as opposed to the 3000+ classic I don't know this but did we ever get info on Zhengui's growth cap ( natural or modified, either works )?

At which realm would his rank peak at?
 
spiritual attack you'd normally use to break formations is going to eat five reflected Argent Mirror counters and explode your brain

Why though? True, if grunts have argent mirror then you need to defeat each of them, but it shouldn't count as a 100xAM vs debuff, should it? It should be 100 instances of AM vs debuff. So while debuff probably won't work that well, it doesn't make grunts' defence stronger.

Because Earth's qualities include Trust, Unity, Receptivity, and Self Sacrifice.

Which is hilarious because Earth is actually quite a sneaky thing.
 
Reading in reader mode's 18 pages as opposed to the 3000+ classic I don't know this but did we ever get info on Zhengui's growth cap ( natural or modified, either works )?

At which realm would his rank peak at?

We don't know what rank he would peak at. However it has been explicitly stated that spirit beasts bond with humans in order to grow beyond their natural limits.
 
Reading in reader mode's 18 pages as opposed to the 3000+ classic I don't know this but did we ever get info on Zhengui's growth cap ( natural or modified, either works )?

At which realm would his rank peak at?
We know that the Xuan have a Xuanwu that has ascended and become a sublime ancestor. Since Zhengui is a Xuanwu it should be theoretically possible for Zhengui to do the same thing. However, we do know that at least one of his parents was at the Indigo stage.
"That is a fifth grade beast," Bai Meizhen said quietly and thoughtfully. "A Volcanic Tyrant Tortoise, I am surprised that such a thing would be left in this place. Yet your Qi feels far too weak. You are the source of energy for the mountains formations, are you not?"
This makes it likely that Zhengui can reach at least the indigo stage, and since he is bound to us probably higher.
 
Reading in reader mode's 18 pages as opposed to the 3000+ classic I don't know this but did we ever get info on Zhengui's growth cap ( natural or modified, either works )?

At which realm would his rank peak at?

Well, assuming he take from his parent, one peak at indigo (the turtle) and the other is a dragon. We don't exactly know at which state dragon peak, but they could build an empire with multiple ascended dragons.

So most likely higher than indigo. Something among the line of early violet seems a safe assumption.

It's pretty irrelevant either way because if we keep taking care of him, he is never going to fall behind us.
 
Well, assuming he take from his parent, one peak at indigo (the turtle) and the other is a dragon. We don't exactly know at which state dragon peak, but they could build an empire with multiple ascended dragons.

So most likely higher than indigo. Something among the line of early violet seems a safe assumption.

It's pretty irrelevant either way because if we keep taking care of him, he is never going to fall behind us.

Not quite a good attitude to take. Spirit beast growth beyond their natural plateau depends on more esoteric factors than luck and hard work.
 
Well, assuming he take from his parent, one peak at indigo (the turtle) and the other is a dragon. We don't exactly know at which state dragon peak, but they could build an empire with multiple ascended dragons.
We don't actually know that Zhengui has a dragon for parent thought ? It could very well have been a giant Wood lizard
 
We don't actually know that Zhengui has a dragon for parent thought ? It could very well have been a giant Wood lizard

The elder needed to kill it, while they could bind the indigo turtle with little issues.

It most likely was violet, and well, there aren't many violet reptiles.

Not quite a good attitude to take. Spirit beast growth beyond their natural plateau depends on more esoteric factors than luck and hard work.

Eh. He is as determined about cultivation than we are. That's pretty impressive especially as he is a kid.
 
The elder needed to kill it, while they could bind the indigo turtle with little issues.

It most likely was violet, and well, there aren't many violet reptiles.
"We don't know any other high level reptiles" isn't a good argument when we explicitly don't know a lot about the high level beasts of the empire, or even of the barbarians lands who have their own legendary beasts to throw around.

I am saying that you are making a big assumption when it was explicily said that there were three known breed of dragons in the Empire and none of them had Wood as element, and the beast in question was just described as being vaguely reptile-like.
 
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