There is an inter-sect tournament schedules to to occur at the end of the next year iirc.
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
About Ji Rong, a thing to remember is that while Talent 7 is /great/, it actually 'just' means a 20% effective increase on dice while cultivation if you discount breakthrough stuff currently. Given our access to White Room, our breakthrough odds were actually not significantly worse than Ji Rong's, either.
Cultivation wise, we can assume Ji Rong very likely doesn't have a spirit beast, as Ling Qi can detect the spirit beast links with AM and @Yrsilar would have totally told us he had them back in our many encounters with him (and recently too). Sixiang/Zhengui alone give us 15 dice to TRF, 15 dice to FVM/FSS, 15 dice to AC, 10 dice to PLR, 10 dice to SCS (only now) and so on. Those dice are actually pretty close to 20% increase by themselves. For meridian, we had white room, which is better than 20%.
This means that if we discount breakthrough quality/pills/rare pills/sites/friends/tutors/cultivation art, Ji Rong's cultivation should not have been significantly faster through his Talent 7 than ours with Talent 6. I am pretty sure that we had a better breakthrough quality, better pill sustain, better rare pills, better sites, more regular tutors (we basically had 3 tutor actions most weeks), and EPC is almost certainly better for arts than his cultivation art even if we dismiss the bonus successes, and lolyes if we do.
Basically, what I am saying is that "once Ji Rong got to green/bronze he then cultivated faster than we did" is probably false. He likely cultivated much slower, even if we dismiss art availability. Considering he was not peak yellow or peak silver in week 37, and only began to cultivate again week 38, he probably "only" had 7/8 or so weeks to cultivate in green/bronze to our 10/11 ones, to boot.
I am scared of the Ji Rong match, and think we should be super wary and careful because of the danger of "he suddenly got a dragon" protagonist power, but by all acount that hasn't happened.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Given that we're the sect beholden to the Cai, *that* would be one worth doing well in.
...and that underlines some interesting questions. Shenhua is going to give Renxiang various tests along the way, but bringing home real benefits for Cai (and Bai, now more than ever) will always win points. How can we make this happen?
- Personal development, for ourselves, for Renxiang, and for Meizhen. At this point, we're each of us pieces that are becoming not entirely trivial.
- Any additional political connections that can be made or reinforced, because political connections are good. Opportunities aren't likely to be as readily available in the Inner Sect as they were in the outer sect, but there's still almost certain to be *some* sort of extractable value there.
- Any additional talents we can get to swear to the Cai, or otherwise convince to come work for us in a long-term way, particularly those with potential. We may be limited in official Sworn To The Cai slots, but there are lesser ways if we'd run out.
- The Sun are almost embarrassingly dependent on Sun Liling succeeding. The more fail we can heap on her, the more their position suffers politically, both in terms of quiet effects of reputation, and in terms of direct resources spent to prop her back up again. Making the Sun look bad very nearly helps the Bai directly, and it certainly makes them happy. Putting her in a position to alienate influential families is also pretty valuable, especially if we can saddle her with the rep that her word is not to be trusted. That sort of word can make its way back to ears that will do the deciding even when complements about us might not.
- Sun Liling is pretty much guaranteed to rise to be the head of the Sun family eventually regardless of what else is going on. The opportunity to influence her is of nontrivial long-term value in and of itself (though it'll be a difficult tool to wield). Alternately, given that one cannot be friends with both Sun and Bai, anything exploitable that we can uncover about her (especially any vulnerabilities that are likely to endure through increases in cultivation) would also have long-term value.
Jensaarai
Sing Victory Everlasting
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I don't remember anything about us discerning that someone has a spirit or not, but the last we encountered Ji Rong was the ambush, no?
That was several weeks (months?) ago, before his Training from Hell. He might've gotten a spirit by now.
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- Location
- Staring into the void
We would have noticed something from his group fight.
Jensaarai
Sing Victory Everlasting
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Not if he decided to not materialize it, like we did in our first fight.
- Location
- Staring into the void
True. His fight with Han Fang is next, we might have a better idea from that?
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
While he may have gotten a spirit beast there has been a lot of talk about what that would mean. The points basically boil down to this.
A.) He does not have a spirit beast.
B.) He has a spirit beast
B.1) If he has a spirit beast it would be one that he had to physical subdue because of his personality and any personality of a spirit compatible with him. This means he is paying more qi for the same effect. Still good for us.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
We can detect howany spirits someone has by looking at them, and Ji Rong has been sitting next to us for hours since yesterday.
It is part of AM passives, and we used it before.
Now that the Cai are shown to be enemies of the Sun, I don't see why Sun Shao would leave his heir in a sect in their territory. It just doesn't make sense for him to give them such a hostage, particularly not at a time that is so crucial to her development so a small amount of sabotage goes a long way.
Pulling her out immediately after this, especially if she doesn't win the sect tournament, would be a huge act of cowardice that would weakens the Sun's position even further. If Lilling doesn't leave on a high note she'd pollute her image for centuries to come, and Sun Shao cannot afford that if he want to pass down his kingdom to her cleanly. that said, He might do so anyway, just because of how much he loves his granddaughter
AM's passive requires a roll to tell if they have a spirit beast, so it's possible we failed in the background and it wasn't shown.
- Location
- Not Telling
Well, if that isn't a downright insult to the Argent Sect or implying his heir weakness, he might want to do that. Politic is a wonderful thing isn't it?
- Location
- Internet, The
There has been a recent tendency to dismiss the importance and/or difficulty of the upcoming Ji Rong fight. Despite agreeing that Ling Qi is overall more powerful, and the more likely winner in that fight, I think there are a couple of things to keep in mind:
Why the match may be unexpectedly difficult:
1) This is the end for Ji Rong. He won't even try to win against his liege, so he will bet everything on this fight.
2) Ji Rong has been preparing for this specific match for a while (months, I think?), which means he will have some specific prepared techniques and plans against LQ.
3) People have already been using one-use items in the preceding fights, so he will be free to spam any he has. Some specifically prepared for LQ.
4) Edit: I think Ji Rong has the sort of typical xianxia protagonist mentality where he takes everything personally and forms grudges. It is possible he might employ strategies that are not wise, like sacrificing valuable one-use artifacts, using dangerous techniques etc.
Why it is important for Ling Qi:
1) The monsters are a rare outside group that forms a category of their own. Anyone looking for talent will dismiss them from the ranking for "normal" sect members. Therefore, everyone knows that the fourth place is the one who would normally be the Champion. The Ji Rong / Ling Qi fight will be the equivalent of the usual final battle.
→ Ling Qi winning will have much greater impact on her reputation than just the difference between the 5th and 4th place.
The also has interesting implication in that both normal candidates for the championship are commoner born, which is likely to rankle quite a few onlookers.
2) They are both representatives of their factions, being the right hands of their leaders. Humiliating him will complete Sun Liling's defeat if she is also defeated, or weaken her victory against Meizhen/CRX. Likewise, if Ji Rong defeats LQ, then Liling can claim at least a partial victory in gaining the most powerful minion, despite Cai being all about neglecting personal strength for the group's advancement.
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tl;dr: Defeating Sun Liling would be legendary, but not losing to Ji Rong is more important.
Why the match may be unexpectedly difficult:
1) This is the end for Ji Rong. He won't even try to win against his liege, so he will bet everything on this fight.
2) Ji Rong has been preparing for this specific match for a while (months, I think?), which means he will have some specific prepared techniques and plans against LQ.
3) People have already been using one-use items in the preceding fights, so he will be free to spam any he has. Some specifically prepared for LQ.
4) Edit: I think Ji Rong has the sort of typical xianxia protagonist mentality where he takes everything personally and forms grudges. It is possible he might employ strategies that are not wise, like sacrificing valuable one-use artifacts, using dangerous techniques etc.
Why it is important for Ling Qi:
1) The monsters are a rare outside group that forms a category of their own. Anyone looking for talent will dismiss them from the ranking for "normal" sect members. Therefore, everyone knows that the fourth place is the one who would normally be the Champion. The Ji Rong / Ling Qi fight will be the equivalent of the usual final battle.
→ Ling Qi winning will have much greater impact on her reputation than just the difference between the 5th and 4th place.
The also has interesting implication in that both normal candidates for the championship are commoner born, which is likely to rankle quite a few onlookers.
2) They are both representatives of their factions, being the right hands of their leaders. Humiliating him will complete Sun Liling's defeat if she is also defeated, or weaken her victory against Meizhen/CRX. Likewise, if Ji Rong defeats LQ, then Liling can claim at least a partial victory in gaining the most powerful minion, despite Cai being all about neglecting personal strength for the group's advancement.
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tl;dr: Defeating Sun Liling would be legendary, but not losing to Ji Rong is more important.
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- Location
- The Temple of the Winds
Not really, if humiliation there is it's from GG that basically Hammered him into the ground, rather than Ling Qi that hardly did anything in the ambush.
There really hasn't been much interaction between the two in-quest.
He made her run away from the fortress, and she participated in an ambush with four(?) others in a support role. That's it.
Honestly, I think that this match is more important than the next one because
1. Nobody expects us to beat Sun. If she crushes us, it would be a shame, but it wouldn't actually loose us all that much in reputation. Everyone knows she's stronger than us anyway. Meanwhile, as torac said, this will be a fight between a representative of the Cai faction and a representative of the Sun faction, which means winning or losing could have a big impact on both our reputation and Cai's reputation.
2. We will likely get concrete benefits for beating Ji Rong, compared to more nebulous benefits for putting up a good fight against Sun.
3. We don't even get to fight Sun if we loose against Ji Rong. Any chance a plan has of resulting in our loss also causes us to have a chance of being able to do nothing at all against Sun, in which case it won't matter how many cards we have left.
Honestly, while having some trump cards left after the fight would be great, I honestly think we should focus on maximizing our chances in the next match, and then worry about doing our best against Sun with what we have left.
1. Nobody expects us to beat Sun. If she crushes us, it would be a shame, but it wouldn't actually loose us all that much in reputation. Everyone knows she's stronger than us anyway. Meanwhile, as torac said, this will be a fight between a representative of the Cai faction and a representative of the Sun faction, which means winning or losing could have a big impact on both our reputation and Cai's reputation.
2. We will likely get concrete benefits for beating Ji Rong, compared to more nebulous benefits for putting up a good fight against Sun.
3. We don't even get to fight Sun if we loose against Ji Rong. Any chance a plan has of resulting in our loss also causes us to have a chance of being able to do nothing at all against Sun, in which case it won't matter how many cards we have left.
Honestly, while having some trump cards left after the fight would be great, I honestly think we should focus on maximizing our chances in the next match, and then worry about doing our best against Sun with what we have left.
Almost everyone has agreed to show PLR and AE against Ji Rong so there are no arts being held back, and TRF is one of those things that whether its' strengths are shown is out of our hands (but we are not hiding it). The constant obsession with wasting the horror's temporary health boxes against someone who ramps up offense just as we ramp up defense is ridiculous - no, you cannot reuse it; it's there for one fight only. It is completely unnecessary against Ji Rong because its only real use is to spam health boxes for us.
Our plan for next round is tailored to Ji Rong's shown abilities, and the fearmongering over next round was as perfectly applicable to the Round of 16 - more because the Round of 16 was the actual crucial round to get into Inner Sect.
The horror is not something you can take back once used. It's a very binary use it or not use it, especially since it's something we decide whether to show right away before seeing what Ji Rong brings.
Our plan for next round is tailored to Ji Rong's shown abilities, and the fearmongering over next round was as perfectly applicable to the Round of 16 - more because the Round of 16 was the actual crucial round to get into Inner Sect.
The horror is not something you can take back once used. It's a very binary use it or not use it, especially since it's something we decide whether to show right away before seeing what Ji Rong brings.
- Location
- United Kingdom
It totally matters how well we do against Sun, even if either way we lose in the end.
If we can draw out any of her trump cards that she was saving for Meizhen, that'd be great not only for the latters chances in the finals, but it also speaks to Ling Qi's abilities that she could push Sun that far in the first place.
As for Ji Rong, I don't think any of us are underestimating him. We know we haven't seen his domain weapon or (likely) all his talismans yet, but on the other hand we can make a pretty good guess that it's unlikely he managed to reach domain 1, considering the amount of time he's had to reach it and the likely number of Green level arts he has (that is, significantly less than us).
And as @Katreus said above we don't plan on holding much back. The Horror would be of more use against Sun, especially if she doesn't know about it, and whilst it'd be nice if we could hold the full extent of TRF back against Ji Rong if it comes down to it we're not saying we'll hide it if it leads to our defeat.
But if we can, we'll make our plan such that we shouldn't need to showcase either the Horror or TRF. Just because Sun is likely to beat us, doesn't mean we can't plan ahead for it/give it our all.
If we can draw out any of her trump cards that she was saving for Meizhen, that'd be great not only for the latters chances in the finals, but it also speaks to Ling Qi's abilities that she could push Sun that far in the first place.
As for Ji Rong, I don't think any of us are underestimating him. We know we haven't seen his domain weapon or (likely) all his talismans yet, but on the other hand we can make a pretty good guess that it's unlikely he managed to reach domain 1, considering the amount of time he's had to reach it and the likely number of Green level arts he has (that is, significantly less than us).
And as @Katreus said above we don't plan on holding much back. The Horror would be of more use against Sun, especially if she doesn't know about it, and whilst it'd be nice if we could hold the full extent of TRF back against Ji Rong if it comes down to it we're not saying we'll hide it if it leads to our defeat.
But if we can, we'll make our plan such that we shouldn't need to showcase either the Horror or TRF. Just because Sun is likely to beat us, doesn't mean we can't plan ahead for it/give it our all.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
On the question of Ji Rong and his spirit, I will call shenanigans if it turns out he has a spirit beast and we didn't see it and here's why:
By all indications the perception test isn't that difficult from what we have seen so far, i.e it's succeeded every time it's been tried as far as I can tell.
We have had one chance today to look at him today. We've literally been in the same line as him for several minutes/hours, and if Ling Qi hasn't tried yet she should be able to try when he either gets to the stage or leaves it in the next fight.
Technically there was also a chance she could look at him during the previous days, though that's a bit messier.
Coming at the topic from another direction, let's assume he does have a spirit.
From the perspective of the ambush there were no indications of him having one which was around week ~35-36 I think. He is not released from confinement until week 37 and the start of his search could thus only be three months and three weeks ago. If you want to get meta about it you can say with very high certainty "week 37" because of zero indication of a spirit in his interlude, but that's just extra.
So almost four months to find a spirit which fits him in some way and is of enough power to actually be useful, so above mid yellow. Maybe Sun gave him a plant waifu, but *shrug*. I am not especially worried in that case given that I am almost certain our spirits will be better, given that we have had Zhengui in some fashion since week 15 and Six is green. I would conclude from that, that we have it on lock in regards to spirits when fighting him, even if one presumes he does have one.
The question then is how we want to approach it and we have a variety of options, with the ones I favor being ones where we disable him with Lunatic Whirl at the end of a train to make sure it hits. I think it's a cool plan and like the thematics and tactics of it. The exact details of the train I'm not very attached to, beyond probably starting with FVM.
By all indications the perception test isn't that difficult from what we have seen so far, i.e it's succeeded every time it's been tried as far as I can tell.
We have had one chance today to look at him today. We've literally been in the same line as him for several minutes/hours, and if Ling Qi hasn't tried yet she should be able to try when he either gets to the stage or leaves it in the next fight.
Technically there was also a chance she could look at him during the previous days, though that's a bit messier.
Coming at the topic from another direction, let's assume he does have a spirit.
From the perspective of the ambush there were no indications of him having one which was around week ~35-36 I think. He is not released from confinement until week 37 and the start of his search could thus only be three months and three weeks ago. If you want to get meta about it you can say with very high certainty "week 37" because of zero indication of a spirit in his interlude, but that's just extra.
So almost four months to find a spirit which fits him in some way and is of enough power to actually be useful, so above mid yellow. Maybe Sun gave him a plant waifu, but *shrug*. I am not especially worried in that case given that I am almost certain our spirits will be better, given that we have had Zhengui in some fashion since week 15 and Six is green. I would conclude from that, that we have it on lock in regards to spirits when fighting him, even if one presumes he does have one.
Pretty much what I am thinking. I was initially interested in using the Horror as well against him but Katreus's point about the health being more useful against Sun made me change my mind.
The question then is how we want to approach it and we have a variety of options, with the ones I favor being ones where we disable him with Lunatic Whirl at the end of a train to make sure it hits. I think it's a cool plan and like the thematics and tactics of it. The exact details of the train I'm not very attached to, beyond probably starting with FVM.
Why would it be cowardice on her part? Giving the Cai such a valuable hostage in return for nothing would be a serious loss for him. Everyone would understand the political context, and why having his heir in an enemy's possession was untenable.
Would he care about insulting the Argent Sect though? They're just one sect among many. It also doesn't really say that his heir is weak. No fourteen year old could be expected to be able to defend herself against a hostile Prism like the Sect Head or White like Cai Shenhua, or have a hope of escaping them.
Naw, thats Moon.
Elements and Meridians that we've seen express themselves in two main ways:
-Medium of Delivery - Any element can do anything.
--Liling can use Blood to shape weapons, arms and armor.
--Meizhen forms Water into a mantle.
--Ling Qi shapes Music into missiles.
-Effect Delivered - This is primarily set by the meridian slot...but limited by the Element, yet relaxed through the combination of elements.
--Blood may be used to inflict harm, track through injuries, or heal. Its probably not going to help you create mental effects without other elements, but it could probably inspire 'primal' emotions of rage and terror you could feel in the blood.
--Fire and Heaven are almost never going to create lasting effects on their own, but they'd also consistently be sources of superior instantaneous effects. Neither are ever going to produce darkness without other elements.
--Music is great at psychological effects, effects over time, carrying effects out to long range. manifesting emotions into effects etc. Its never going to be much good at physical manifestations on its own, though it can support another element's manifested effect, and its usually an inferior source of instant effects.
--Moon is the oddball, it seems to be mainly a modifier, since Moon on its own is just Change.
I think we got a bunch of stuff hinted at:
-Inner Sect disciples also work on a Sect Point economy. They primarily provide said services to each other, but also low services to Outer Sect. They can buy services from the Core Sect via the same mechanism
-Inner Sect has a higher availability of drugs, facilities and sites in general, which are maintained/created by Inner and Core disciples.
-Inner Sect has a much more significant stipend than the Outer Sect
-Inner Sect has a more extensive and more available library than the Outer Sect. It is possible that unlike the Outer Sect's need to pay per use, you could browse and research more freely.
-Inner Sect has much more available Elders attention
-Inner Sect SHOULD have access to quests ranging further away from the Sect, meant for larger and more powerful groups, which pays much more and give more opportunity than the largely busywork or simulated mission environment(the Outer Sect missions are more evidently artificial training exercises in the most part)
Definitely looks like it all went to Shenhua's plans.
Even the failures wound up to her benefit, so yeah, she definitely planned it. I don't know how much, but given her Domain...probably everything.
...Cai Shenhua?
Eh, being a Cai vassal gives a fair bit more room, since the Sect would allow faster progress to give her face. Provided she can live up to the hype anyways
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
Only Sun Liling's not in an enemy's possession. She is under the stewardship of the Argent Peak Sect, a neutral third party who is by law beholden to the Imperial Throne, not to Clan Cai. It's not even a legal fiction, they get a lot of their legal rights and funding from the Imperial government. Cai can lean on them and provide pressure, but everyone can do that, and it is obvious when they do so. Cai Shenhua would have to go extremely out of her way to kill, injure, or cripple Sun Liling without drawing attention to what she was doing, and any attention she did draw would damage her face and rally support to the Sun.
There isn't any more risk to leaving her in the Argent Sect than there is in having her back in the Western Jungle, which is a hellscape death world. Heck, it's probably less dangerous. And that's not mentioning how much disrespect such an action would deal to the Argent Sect, and how it would show everyone how weak and scared the Sun are.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah, that's all sensible, though I was more specifically speaking of the Core sect. My point was that we the players have basically no idea as far as I know on what they might be doing with their time.
Mmmm quite. To put it in perspective, if Sun Liling get's ganked via obvious doings of Shenhua, that's gonna get the Empress looking at things very closely.
It is not in the Empress's best interests to have her Dukes fighting it out and they all know it.
Can we like bring a dozen lightning rods to battle?
- Location
- United States of America
I mean... it's possible I suppose? Our storage ring can hold a lot of stuff, and lightning rods should be able to fit in there. I just have difficulty seeing how it would help us.