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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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Alectai said:
Except if you actually read the plan, you'd know that we only actually retreat to probe for how good her chase and perception skills are--that if we break contact, we abuse that to wind up our full FVM suite and ride Zhengui to glorious battle--if we can't, then we still try for a decent joint backstab on her.
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What is there to probe. Either they are, then stealthing is useless or they are not then FVM is simply better as ot start the death spiral.

Either way, we are going to set up FVM. Why would we ever want to spend qi before doing it ?
 
Ayashi said:
Army battles are between Yellows, so no domain at all.
Sun was a notable outsider with his Green level army.
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Army battles buffed by silly powerful, or buffing silly powerful, higher tiers. See the Ogodei battle in the trial and the knowledge we have of there being higher level commanders in armies.
 
archangis said:
What is there to probe. Either they are, then stealthing is useless or they are not then FVM is simply better as ot start the death spiral.

Either way, we are going to set up FVM. Why would we ever want to spend qi before doing it ?
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Because I'm concerned about the possibility of her having some kind of technique that interrupts stuff like that?

Hence why I asked yrsillar if it was a reasonable concern and am presently awaiting a response?
 
Alectai said:
Green Stones are basically the standard currency at the ducal seats. To them what our Red Stones are.

A single Green Stone is worth 500 RSS, and Ling Qi alone managed to get to Yellow off of maybe 50 of those. While her Talent is exceptional, it still means that a Ducal House can budget something like a 100 GSS like we spend RSS, and have enough to stuff their children up for a marginal advantage.

It's a face thing too, their scions have to be overwhelming compared to their peers when they make their debut, or their clan looks weak. So even if the efficiency is trash, they do it anyway.
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If that was the case Cai would be giving us more then one green stone a month.
 
Neshuakadal said:
[X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.

Feels like the most conservative plan. Let's Yrs do his thing while building up a death field. We have a lot of health and qi so even if she can batter us down we can recover
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I dislike revealing just how tanky we are so early. It's part of why I prefer Alectai's plan.
 
BungieONI said:
Army battles buffed by silly powerful, or buffing silly powerful, higher tiers. See the Ogodei battle in the trial and the knowledge we have of there being higher level commanders in armies.
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In which case it's a single domain affecting over a wide area, not the dozens if not hundreds of different domains trying to overlap constantly like what you seemed to imply.
 
Erebeal said:
@yrsillar are we going to get to see any of the other fights? Like, say, Lan-Lan's?
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Yeah I will be writing out the other fights, though some are obviously going to be kinda short.

Alectai said:
Oh, also, @yrsillar , should I specify for Ling Qi to pop On The Wind as well for the chase bit, or will she just do that automatically to stay ahead of Chu Song?
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She will pop her movement arts if your plan is to make distance, yes.

fictionfan said:
@yrsillar : Do you plan on actually rolling out all the fights? Because it would be funny if a miracle happened and Sun lost.
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Hell no, I'm only rolling the ones you guys are in, maybe some simplified rolls for the others that are actually competitive.

Alectai said:
It does last for a few turns? Hell, we make that all back by the time it wears out if we use TRD next turn, and our veil makes it harder for Chu Song to track us too.

The problem is that--as a matter of course, I'm reluctant to block a battering ram with my face. Even if my face is well armored and shock absorbent, I would still rather avoid it in the first place.

I've explained my reasoning for it, but what I want to do is recontextualize the fight. I want to actually force her out of the comfort zone of "Apply sword to enemy face". And I most definitely want to avoid the risk of melee interrupts being a thing.

In fact, I think this is something Ling Qi probably would have learned by now.

@yrsillar , are melee interrupt arts a thing that we should be concerned about?
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There are arts that do that sure.

Pre 14 cultivation is primarily useful for setting up a wide base of arts. That was why Han Jian was a slacker, coming to the sect with only one or two. The big three all have pretty wide bases of arts they can swap out if need be.
 
Ayashi said:
In which case it's a single domain affecting over a wide area, not the dozens if not hundreds of different domains trying to overlap constantly like what you seemed to imply.
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True, though the question does stand, what do you do with an army where you have an appreciable number of Green and/or Cyan+ commanders and beyond with a horde of Yellows and Reds?

I'm curious how the Domains interact.
 
[X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.

We want to hide trump cards until they're needed. We also want to show off our trump cards to their best possible effect. The trump cards we have today aren't the trump cards we'll be relying on in life or death battles later on. Revealing them in exchange for style points is part of our goal for the tournament.

This is a good opportunity to show off our toughness. Ling Qi can likely tank whatever Chu Song can throw out. No-selling her attacks makes an emphatic statement.

I don't think we can flat out tank a Ji Rong offensive, so this is our last chance to show off. There's some danger that he adapts his strategy, but he was always going to be doing his best to hit us with max burst damage anyways. We also still have spirit rave and crowtron in our back pockets as further trumps.
 
[X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.
 
BungieONI said:
what do you do with an army where you have an appreciable number of Green and/or Cyan+ commanders and beyond with a horde of Yellows and Reds?
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It is a question.
I'm going to assume they literally clash and only the strongest domain remains, unless you have either similar a) Art Set, b) Ancestry/affinity, as that would explain the dominance of the Sect and Clan format as a power unit.

Alectai said:
They might have that Talent by the time that they're at this level, but in terms of actual starting position Talent 7 is obscene.
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I'm thinking over it a bit more. Xiulan little ritual even with one of the nastiest results (short of death) is negated by Cyan. That seems to imply that people are expected to have a +1 talent event somehow by or at that level.
Meaning a "average" talent of 4 or 5 could, assuming s/he works hard enough and has enough support/resources/ect, hit Violet "normally".
So, assuming just one more significant event, Ling Qi is Prism material ?
Adhoc vote count started by Ayashi on Jul 23, 2018 at 2:37 PM, finished with 549 posts and 86 votes.
  • [x] Set up and Stick in
    [X] Once More, Into the Shadows
    [X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.
    [X] Once More, Into the Shadows
    -[X] Wind, Thunder, and Mountain are Elements primarily good at getting in your face and then beating you to a pulp there, they're not necessarily so good at situational awareness. Make use of One With Shadow and Grinning Crescent Dancer to fade into the darkness of the forest--using Twilight Beauty if needed to achieve Low Light early on--and deny Chu Song a target while finding a good spot, and then arrange an ambush along with Zhengui using best judgement. If she decides to sit tight instead--or if you get enough distance to set up uninterrupted, she can accept you having as much time as you want to spool up your mist and other debuffs, and fall on her with the force of an volcanic avalanche along with Zhengui. Be willing to summon additional help with Abyssal Exhalation if you need to set up a multiple attacker mosh pit, but keep PLR and the Horror up our sleeve at the moment.
    [X] Once More, Into the Shadows
    -[X] Wind, Thunder, and Mountain are Elements primarily good at getting in your face and then beating you to a pulp there, they're not necessarily so good at situational awareness. Make use of One With Shadow and Grinning Crescent Dancer to fade into the darkness of the forest--using Twilight Beauty if needed to achieve Low Light early on--and deny Chu Song a target while finding a good spot, and then arrange an ambush along with Zhengui. If she decides to sit tight instead, she can accept you having as much time as you want to spool up your mist and other debuffs, and fall on her with the force of an avalanche. Be willing to summon additional help with Abyssal Exhalation if you need to set up a multiple attacker mosh pit, but keep PLR and the Horror up our sleeve at the moment.
    [x] Set up and Stick in
    -[x] The terrain is neutral, but you can mold it into your favor. While setting up the mists, avoid melee defensively as best you can. Once the mists stick, release Zhengui and together turn the area into a frozen ashy mire, while setting up defenses for the both of you. If Chu Song has a strong dispel, do like Heizui and use it to wear her down, but if she fails work towards Traveler's End. Do not get sucked into a flying sword or spirit beast duel, it's best to keep all three targets where they can be engaged together, as that is where Zhengui and your Singing Mist Blade both excel. Elegy can be used to isolate instead of distance. Fight around Zhengui so he can disrupt them, and if they take their attention off of you, slam an opponent hard. If Chu Song escapes or tries a skirmish strategy, don't waste energy chasing, but try to mislead her and get her stuck in again - unlike Shen Hu you have the advantage that she must engage you to win.
    [X] Turtle Fortress
    [X] Plan Zhengui needs some experience too
    -[X] Use FSA, FZ and SCS to attack Chu Song from range and not allow her to close the gap (aka kitting)
    -[X] Buff Zhengui and then have him ambush Chu Song's Bear pet and defeat it
    -[X] Once the previous is done, Kite Chu Song over to Zhengui and switch to the flute + musical Arts to focus on helping Zhengui in his fight against a debuffed Chu Song.
    [X] Standard Operating Procedure
    -[X] You have confidence in your abilities, but there's no harm in being a bit cautious. Maintain your distance with Sable Crescent Step as you build your mist into an inexorable tide. Zhengui's Ashfall will only make the eventual sneak attack all the more unstoppable. Once Chu Song is trapped within the Traveler's End, your Frozen Soul Serenade will snuff out any chances of victory.
    [X] Stone Turtle and Mist Girl
    -[x] Open with FVM at 120 meter radius, try to catch Chu Song and her bear inside it and then separate them with Elegy. Zhengui should dig in for an ambush with his most powerful strike against whichever of the pair finds him first, trying to them grapple after and use Ashfall. When he engages buff him up as high as we can with whatever we can, particularly TRF. Keep our distance from Chu and the Bear, avoiding her domain weapon, and keep our domain weapon away from hers. Use our domain weapon, One With Shadow and FSS to attack Chu Song in quick flash attacks using Ling Qi's ability to disengage. Be wary of dispels and stick close to Zhengui so he can heal us both. Keep PLR, the Horror in our deck and don't use them.
    [x] Set up and Stick in
    -[x] The terrain is neutral, but you can mold it into your favor. While setting up the mists, avoid melee defensively as best you can. Once the mists stick, release Zhengui and together turn the area into a frozen ashy mire, while setting up defenses for the both of you. If Chu Song has a strong dispel, do like Heizui and make her use it to wear her down, but if she fails work towards Traveler's End. Do not get sucked into a flying sword or spirit beast duel, it's best to keep all three targets where they can be engaged together, as that is where Zhengui and your Singing Mist Blade both excel. Elegy can be used to isolate instead of distance. Fight around Zhengui so he can disrupt them, and if they take their attention off of you, slam an opponent hard. If Chu Song escapes or tries a skirmish strategy, don't waste energy chasing, but try to mislead her and get her stuck in again - unlike Shen Hu you have the advantage that she must engage you to win.
    [X] Stone Turtle and Mist Girl
    -[x] Open with FVM at 120 meter radius, try to catch Chu Song and her bear inside it and then separate them with Elegy. Zhengui should dig in for an ambush with his most powerful strike against whichever of the pair finds him first, trying to grapple them after and use Ashfall. When he engages buff him up as high as we can with whatever we can, particularly TRF. Keep our distance from Chu and the Bear, avoiding her domain weapon, and keep our domain weapon away from hers. Use our domain weapon, One With Shadow and FSS to attack Chu Song in quick flash attacks using Ling Qi's ability to disengage. Be wary of dispels and stick close to Zhengui so he can heal us both. Keep PLR, the Horror in our deck and don't use them.
    [X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.
    [x] Set up and Stick in
    [X][X][X]
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Axel Fones said:
I dislike revealing just how tanky we are so early. It's part of why I prefer Alectai's plan.
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This is kinda our last chance to have a "stand our ground" fight in the tournament with an opponent that has a spirit beast. Zhengui didn't fight in the prelims and is feeling bad, so depriving him of his only chance to actually show off against another spirit beast is not very nice, I feel.

That, and Sun Liling already knows we are much more tanky than expected. She had that realisation when she tried to gut us while chasing us, a defining moment of shock on her face. While Chu Song might not know, Ji Rong also definitely does thanks to that. She might not know exactly how tanky, but Chu Song won't show that unless they can see her damage numbers.

So for me, this is the vote that let Zhengui shine and doesn't try to do something clever that can fail on our ass.
 
I'm realizing... the deck's kind of stacked against the Sun family on this one, if what you're considering is probable effects on Sun Liling's reputation.

- Her first fight is a mook. It was always going to be a mook. It's not a particularly meaningful mook.
- Her second fight is a dark horse. No one really knows his skills, he has no rep, he has no backing. His best strategy in the group trials was to effectively force a draw with us by running away and eating the mooks. He *looks* like he's overall weaker than Ling Qi. If she beats him, she gets no real credit for it, but the fact that he's basically unknown, and the possibility of type mismatch, means that he actually has a small but significant shot at beating her (especially because she might pick wrong when selecting arts to use against him). That would be *devastating*. It may also make her show more than she really wants to, especially because she knows little enough about him that she won't be able to leverage her art-swapping advantage but so much.
- Her third fight was going to be one of Cai, Bai, or the Ling Qi/Ji Rong fight. Of the three, the Ling Qi/Ji Rong fight is the worst, because, again, she's expected to win. If Ji Rong comes out on top, she gains nothing other than a bye. If we come out on top, and we manage to beat her (unlikely, but technically possible), that is only somewhat less devastating to her rep than losing to Shen Hu. (Beaten by the handmaiden! Sun Liling, you let a *vassal* beat you!) It's worse because we'll happily admit that both Cai Renxiang and Bai Meizhen can beat us without real difficulty... which means that she's now been beaten by both of her main rivals *by proxy*. It also means that she's opposed by a team that has three people in it who have better rep than her. It would be... bad (for her). Also, if we even show up at the fight, again, we're forcing her to reveal things that she'd rather save for the final. More pertinently, this is the only setup of the three possible where there is no way for her to beat both of her rivals. She gets to face one or the other. Certainly, taking the championship would help, but right up to that point, it's all suck. There's no gain to be had, only potential for loss... and that potential for loss has been maximized as much as could be managed while still denying her the chance for gain.
- Assuming she makes it that far, her fourth fight is highly likely to be the Sun/Bai matchup... which she has a good chance at losing.

My guess is that this is what Duchess Cai got out of the deal from the Sect (or part of it)... as well as being her little revenge for the messing around that was done in the group challenges.

Arkeus said:
We don't know when Wen Ai got to green compared to Kang Zihao, and we know that some people do have their spirit beast get to green before them (Heijin).
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Pretty sure that that's because the Han had a particular cultivation technique that let him do that thing. Certainly, they had some sort of cultivation technique that specialized heavily on allowing that tiger summon. My guess is that under normal circumstances, having a spirit at a higher realm than you, if possible, is both difficult and potentially problematic.

[X] Once More, Into the Shadows
-[X] Wind, Thunder, and Mountain are Elements primarily good at getting in your face and then beating you to a pulp there, they're not necessarily so good at situational awareness. Make use of One With Shadow and Grinning Crescent Dancer to fade into the darkness of the forest--using Twilight Beauty if needed to achieve Low Light early on--and deny Chu Song a target while finding a good spot, and then arrange an ambush along with Zhengui. If she decides to sit tight instead, she can accept you having as much time as you want to spool up your mist and other debuffs, and fall on her with the force of an avalanche. Be willing to summon additional help with Abyssal Exhalation if you need to set up a multiple attacker mosh pit, but keep PLR and the Horror up our sleeve at the moment.
 
[X] Once More, Into the Shadows

Seems solid. Hopefully Zhengui will join us in the final ambush/fight.

Winning the first fight seems pretty likely. Fighting Ji Rong makes a lot of sense, since he's allied to Sun and we're allied to Cai. It's sort of a preview of the final fight between Sun and whoever. I think we have decent odds of winning that fight; Ji Rong has been hiding in the woods while we gobble down resources, so we've probably got an edge.

There's no way we win the fight against Sun Liling. She's got a grudge, she's been preparing for this match for months, she can call in rare resources and artifacts, and she's probably learned at least one art specifically designed to fuck over Ling Qi.

My guess is Sun wins the tournament.
 
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fictionfan said:
I could like to surprise Ji Rong by breaking his fist with our face next round. That is powerful face.
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We will have the most pristine face in the entire Empire! All will bow before the strength and quality of it, and they shall whisper among themselves how no insult, no slight, no petty grubbing can damage our face in any way, shape, or form!
 
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